Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: vinnietbird on November 05, 2007, 11:07:23 PM

Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 05, 2007, 11:07:23 PM
Will a Mass Air sensor from a V-6 work on a V-8 if the injectors between the two engines are the same?
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: grutinator on November 05, 2007, 11:35:54 PM
i dont thin injector size matters as thats what the computer controls. if you mean only the sensor i would imagine you'd need to find one that puts out the same output voltage at the same conditions (density of air) as stock. all the computer see's is voltage and it componsates, it doesnt care where it gets its voltage or what the voltage really is, it just adjusts fuel from what its told by maf sensor voltage.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 06, 2007, 06:58:52 AM
So,a Mass Air sensor that can come from a V-6 car can be used on a V-8 car using the same injectors,just two more of them.Right or wrong?
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: 420ttam420 on November 06, 2007, 07:23:10 AM
i would think its doable i mean if its same plug same everything onlything you can do is look at the part #'s between the v6 and the v8 mass airflow meter and see if they match up.....plug same #'s match up probly gonna work....mass airflows just measure incomming air i dont think it matters so much as the #of cyls....because look at gm almost all of the v6 and v8 motors have the same mass air meter....so if its sitting around try it......
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: dominator on November 06, 2007, 07:33:16 AM
Probably different man.
Due to the fact of air flow metered.
v8 is going to suck in more air than a v6.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: slamedcat on November 06, 2007, 07:51:57 AM
I tried to put a Mark VIII meter on my cougar with 19# injectors and it didn't work. So I put the 19# sensor back on it.

The casting is what you need to wory about. The sample tube inside is tuned to the size of the injectors is what I found out.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 06, 2007, 07:56:16 AM
I found a chart a long time ago on the intarweb (that has disappeared) that showed which motors/injector combos used which MAF meters.  It even showed the factory ford part# for the sensors.  Many v6 and v8 motors did in fact use the same sensor. I just wish I could find that chart again.  You'd know exactly which ones you could use.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: Innes on November 06, 2007, 01:02:26 PM
What’s the part #?
Maybe it’s a universal ford part#
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 06, 2007, 01:06:22 PM
Well,the Mark VIII sensor probably didn't work with the 19# injectors because a Mark VIII uses 24's.I don't have a part number right now.I'll try to grab the sensors this week.I'm grabbing them both because they are free,and,if they DO work,I'll have one to sell with a set of 24# injectors (an extra set).
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: slamedcat on November 06, 2007, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;186424
Well,the Mark VIII sensor probably didn't work with the 19# injectors because a Mark VIII uses 24's.


Thats what I was gettting at. Its the casting thats different for different injectors. Because I can swap the actual sensor from casting to casting and it will work. They had the same part numbers on them but the casting had a bigger opening for the air to flow across the sensor.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 06, 2007, 02:16:44 PM
I found this:  http://www.micro-tech-auto.com/images/pdf/mafcat.pdf

It has an OEM parts interchange list on it as well.  It's not the chart I was refering to, but it works.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 06, 2007, 09:06:25 PM
I'll grab those sensors and check the numbers.Thanks a lot.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: SR71TC on November 07, 2007, 01:53:54 AM
I used a mass sensor from a v6 car,70 something mm, don't do it...it will run very fat and you will end up replaceing your o2 sensors. Trust me on this, stick with a V8 sensor or swap the sensor portion of it to a 80mm(plastic housing) and you will have no problems.

J
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 07, 2007, 06:26:51 AM
No biggie,I'll wait until I have everything I need.I'm not going to just start throwin parts at it.I'll talk to Kitz,he may have what I need.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 07, 2007, 04:23:14 PM
A sensor for a '95 300 I-6 is the same as on the wifes '93 4.6 Grand Marquis...

SOME ARE THE SAME.... Others are not....
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 07, 2007, 04:25:07 PM
I have nothing to lose by trying the sensor out.They're free (2 of them),and if it doesn't work,so be it.Thanks TC50 for the input.By the way,what size injectors does that I-6 use?
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 07, 2007, 04:33:52 PM
I honestly don't know the 300 inj size, guessing they were 19lb like the 4.6...


I should qualify the post, the Merc ran fine on the 6cyl meter with no issues... Gas mileage was same and no CEL... Eventually I found out about dirty MAF sensors, so I cleaned the orig and reinst it... Again no difference...
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 08, 2007, 01:33:21 PM
From what I've noticed, as far as the meter itself is concerned as long as two engines share the same size injector, you can swap the sensors regardless of # of cylinders.  The problem lies in the housing which in fact has it's own part#.  Some of those are interchangeable as well. 

According to the chart link I posted earlier the part # 85-2315 will work in A 5.0 Mustang for the years '89-'92, '93, and '95.  The one listed for '88 is part # 85-2310.  The one listed for '94-'95 has a diferent part# altogether.

I have no idea why the one year California only mass air would be different, but apparently it is (There is another thread on here that alludes to the fact the MAP/BAP sensor is different as well).

The '95 has the same part number as the earlier contemporary Fox versions so one can surmise these part#'s are for the sensors only.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 08, 2007, 01:51:21 PM
My meter (not the sensor) is a 70mm piece,which,I think is a Mustang Cobra meter.No promises there.I bought it here on the forum.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 09, 2007, 02:13:31 PM
While all this has been goin on, guess what???

The friggin' MAF meter bit the big one on the '95 Bird(code 102)... Yes I tried cleaning it... Swapped to a meter from a '91 5.0 Stang... It's happy again... Actually runs better than ever now(remember I mentioned it was a dog?), guess the old one was some what out of calibration...
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 09, 2007, 05:45:49 PM
Sooooo,I still wonder (I haven't been to the boneyard yet,I'm working on that),if the Mass Air sensor from the taurus V-6 will run the 24# injectors without swapping the meter?I've got a couple of injector rebuild kits coming and I'll go ahead and get the injectors ready,then grab the sensors and see what happens....when I install the e303 as i stated before.I don't want to use the 19# injectors when I install the new cam.I think that may have confused a few here.I want to replace my 19# injectors I'm using now and swap IN the 24's.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 09, 2007, 08:53:51 PM
If you mean std 3.0/3.8 Taurus, not likely... As stated meter must match injectors...
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 09, 2007, 10:15:02 PM
I'll grab the meters as well,and just see what can be done.I've seen some cut the  off of the airbox side and mount it like a Fox Stang meter.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: SR71TC on November 10, 2007, 02:28:43 AM
V6 and V8 are totally different, use the housing, not the sensor. My 2 cents and my experiance,

J
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 10, 2007, 08:15:17 AM
Quote from: SR71TC;186902
V6 and V8 are totally different, use the housing, not the sensor. My 2 cents and my experiance,

J


Probably in most instances, but a 300cu in(4.9L) is larger than a 4.6, so in my case it worked... I'm sure amount of air flow through the engine(thus size injector used)has more to do with matching, than the number of cylinders...
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 10, 2007, 05:42:45 PM
# of cylinders has nothing to do with the sensor.  It's injector size.  The Taurus sensor will work with your 19's Vin, but not your 24's.  What size injectors do SuperCoupes have?  24's or 30's?  I can't remember.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 10, 2007, 06:00:27 PM
The Taurus had type 3 24# injectors.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 10, 2007, 06:08:39 PM
Oh.....Thought it had 19's:toilet:

Do it up then.  Can you get a pic of the Taurus MAF meter housing as well?
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 10, 2007, 06:13:33 PM
As soon as I get over this freakin sinus infection,I'll go to the boneyard and grab the sensors and housings.Pics folowing.I hope to have them Wednesday morning.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 10, 2007, 06:14:29 PM
If all this works out,it may be pretty useful for a cheap 24# injector upgrade.Although,you'll have to hit two Taurus's.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 11, 2007, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;186952
# of cylinders has nothing to do with the sensor.  It's injector size.  The Taurus sensor will work with your 19's Vin, but not your 24's.  What size injectors do SuperCoupes have?  24's or 30's?  I can't remember.

Don't know a thing about Taurus', but I do know the '93 Cobra MAF cal'd for 24lb inj is unique... It can only be used with the Cobra EEC... Guessing there won't likely be one at your local J/K yard...

The early SC's have 30lb inj, the '94 & '95 use 36lb...
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 12, 2007, 03:26:32 AM
According to the part listing I posted,  The Cobra P/N is the same as the Super Coupes.....it's why I asked about the injector size on them.  It's also the same P/N on the '95 Cobra as well.  I'm pretty sure that has a different ECU than the '93, but not 100% on that one....  P/N is 85-4796.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 12, 2007, 06:49:04 AM
Man,this is a lot more complicated than I had antited.I thought it would be as easy as changing the sensor and injectors from the 19's I'm using now to the 24's.Can the 19's support the E303 cam well?
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 12, 2007, 06:56:58 AM
If you're still runnin E7 heads it wouldn't take much more fuel pressure to get the 19's to work.  I'd start with 52 PSI with the vacuum line disconnected as a baseline and work from there.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 12, 2007, 02:14:44 PM
What Taurus had 24lb/hr injectors? The 3.0 Duratech?
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: Kitz Kat on November 12, 2007, 04:05:31 PM
Vinnie, I ran stock pressure with the 19's and E-7's,you can boost it some I only went 24 because I put the afr's on.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 12, 2007, 06:51:51 PM
Quote from: kitzdnm;187247
Vinnie, I ran stock pressure with the 19's and E-7's,you can boost it some I only went 24 because I put the afr's on.


Good advice... No E7 headed 5.0 is gonna need more than 19s, unless they had a Sh** load of porting or it's pressurized.....
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 12, 2007, 10:52:38 PM
I'm good and happy with that advice.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: t.birdsc on November 14, 2007, 03:54:13 AM
Quote from: vinnietbird;187152
Man,this is a lot more complicated than I had antited.I thought it would be as easy as changing the sensor and injectors from the 19's I'm using now to the 24's.Can the 19's support the E303 cam well?


There was some kind of mass air variable resistor box, I purchased off ebay for a decent price which allows you dial in whatever injector size you need. The company though is out of business so that might say something. It works like some kind of dashpot deal 'mass air flow optimizer' lol.  It looked like something that could be fabbed from Radio Shack :mad: Anderson Ford Motorsports has one and it's probably pretty good but way too pricey.
You've come along well with the mass air and e cam setup, mine is still way behind. The lower intake's off because I don't feel like rig'n the pcv, the dude capped the pcv opening on the performer lower since he broke off the baffle. Ebay :beatyoass:
Keep the posts going with how the e cam works on the mass. Supposedly, it will even wake up the e7's :burnout:
 Good luck,
  Mike
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2007, 08:30:19 AM
I'm still waiting to install the E303 (thanks Kitz for talking me into keeping it !!).I will when time allows.I've had so much going on lately,time is a rare commodity.I'll go ahead and install the cam and leave the fuel system alone,and if it seems I need to bump up the fuel pressure,I'll grab an AFP regulator at that time.The heads are slightly ported on the intake side,opened up to match the headers,the bowls were smoothed,and a 3 angle valve job,topped off with 1.6 roller rockers.I'll rebuild the 24# injectors when my rebuild kits arrive and sell them for a fair price to someone who needs them more than I do.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 15, 2007, 08:52:52 AM
What are your rpm's when you shift @ WOT?
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2007, 09:49:22 AM
WOT? It'll shift around 4500 since the shift kit was installed.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: V8Demon on November 15, 2007, 10:21:46 AM
That's it?  Stock pressure will be fine, but I'd see what I could do to get 600-700 more RPM up top.  Maybe more if possible.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2007, 10:53:37 AM
Eventually,a new torque converter will be going in.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: 32VFoxBird on November 15, 2007, 03:43:22 PM
you have the "HO" cam in it, right? 4500rpm is a really low shift point.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2007, 03:53:26 PM
Yes,I have the H.O cam.I'll go run it now.I may be wrong.I'm going to get my son from school and will have an update shortly.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2007, 05:09:09 PM
O.K.,4800 to 4900 rpm's.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: vinnietbird on November 15, 2007, 05:09:35 PM
I didn't really pay any attention before the shift kit was installed.
Title: Mass Air question.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 15, 2007, 05:42:47 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;187776
That's it?  Stock pressure will be fine, but I'd see what I could do to get 600-700 more RPM up top.  Maybe more if possible.


Quote from: vinnietbird;187842
O.K.,4800 to 4900 rpm's.


I just adjusted mine to the MAX setting (following the TV cable adjustment procedure) and it upshifts at 5000 rpms. As far as I know nothing else has been done to the tranny (it was rebuilt at 99,000 miles before I bought the car).