Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: LJS30 on October 22, 2007, 08:51:28 PM

Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: LJS30 on October 22, 2007, 08:51:28 PM
Can anything be done to bring out some kind of performance in the carbed 83 3.8V6?  Headwork?  Cams?  etc?
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: bhazard on October 22, 2007, 09:04:04 PM
Its not worth it. That motor is like 112hp stock, I doubt you would even get 130 out of it. They are what they are, an economy engine for bigger cars. They replaced the 3.3L 6 cylinder with its almighty 85hp and the 4.2L v8 I think as well, which only had 120hp itself.

They got decent way later in their life. The SC 3.8 was a torque monster and the split-port 3.8 had up to 205hp, but the older ones...meh.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: V8Demon on October 22, 2007, 10:01:04 PM
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=13812&highlight=3.8+rocker

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=13026&highlight=3.8+performance

http://www.3.8mustang.com/

http://www.moranav6racing.com/

http://racerwalsh.zoovy.com/c=K4fI3L...ory/6cylinder/

http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: LJS30 on October 23, 2007, 09:09:31 PM
Is their anyone on this board who actually is a fan of that motor?
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: JeremyB on October 23, 2007, 09:35:11 PM
I like the split port version. So much I'm going to swap one in.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: daminc on October 23, 2007, 10:48:54 PM
I'm not a fan, but i have one.
the only thing you can do with that motor is sit around and wait for the head gasket to blow. and it will sooner or later
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: jcassity on October 24, 2007, 01:16:27 AM
Quote from: daminc;184239
I'm not a fan, but i have one.
the only thing you can do with that motor is sit around and wait for the head gasket to blow. and it will sooner or later


thats bs,, folk lore,,, bla bla bla.  Too much hoopla put into web sites and fraidy cats back in the day passing rumors about the "new" aluminum head causing all that. 


Yeah, im a little familiar with the motor:D  I would be an idiot to say i like them but i do know them front to back.  The older ones just dont get enough air.

the better 3.8 is the 88 version and far better would be to install the 4.2l short block stuff into an 88 year 3.8.

I really dont think im comfortable saying the 4.2L crank works out in an 87 and down cfi 3.8.  its complicated but ill leave that long story off line for now.

now,, what you can do............

see my diy link
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: Carpimp1987 on October 24, 2007, 02:03:51 AM
If it was a SC 3.8 then i am fan of it otherwise don't waste your money on it other than to keep it running and maybe a K&N fliter at most.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: blu84302 on October 24, 2007, 02:34:59 AM
CougarSE has an 88 3.8L.  I've never drove it but what he did would probably be the best bang for the buck.  He put a T5 from a V6 mustang behind it.  I'm sure you'd see a big jump in performance from that and some suspension work.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: daminc on October 24, 2007, 07:41:34 AM
Sorry, I should have said that differently. my 87 head gasket went twice,and some friends had the same problems. I should have said, there's a possibility of head gasket failure with these motors. some do and some never will
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: blackcougar71 on October 24, 2007, 08:46:02 AM
ford v6 engines of any kind are awesome!!!!!
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: tbirdsps on October 24, 2007, 09:38:46 AM
I've had 3 with the 3.8.  I was completely happy with the 85 Cougar.  The 86 Bird doesn't seem to have the power that the 85 Cat had.  The 92 Bird blew both head gaskets resulting in a new engine.  The new engine in comparison to the 85 and 86 is a hot rod!  Easily smokes the tires.  I probably would not buy another one with the 3.8.

I really like the 4.0 in the new Mustangs.  But I hear they are not great on gas.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: V8Demon on October 24, 2007, 11:48:01 AM
Quote from: LJS30;184199
Is their anyone on this board who actually is a fan of that motor?



Dude, read the first 2 links I posted;)


Quote from: JeremyB
I like the split port version. So much I'm going to swap one in.


Still looking for a good car to put a motor in here....
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: screaming306 on October 24, 2007, 02:30:54 PM
i had an 83 cougar with the 3.8 c-5 combo, all i did was replace the carb with the holley 2 bbl from jegs. and it ran alot better. there is a company out there that specializes in the 3.8 cyl. heads for the 3.8 make some more power. you could swap rear ends out of a turbo coupe, hoping for some 3.55 locking.maybe even swap out the c-5 valve body for one from a c-4 performance one. deep pan for the trans. but that is about it. maybe a shift kit.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: JeremyB on October 24, 2007, 02:59:58 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;184338
Still looking for a good car to put a motor in here....

I can't find a nearby car with an unmolested wiring harness.
I'll try looking a little harder when the T-bird gets painted/rebuilt rear.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: Thunder Chicken on October 24, 2007, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: jcassity;184277
thats bs,, folk lore,,, bla bla bla.  Too much hoopla put into web sites and fraidy cats back in the day passing rumors about the "new" aluminum head causing all that. 

Boy, I sure wish I'd known it was BS, Hoopla and folk lore that left me stranded on that highway in -20 temps on the way to the Christmas party in my '91 T-Bird. What with all that steam and the fact that the #3 cylinder was full of coolant to the point of hydro-locking the engine, I'd have sworn it was a head gasket, but it appears I wasted my time and money replacing it, since it was just my imagination :hick:

That being said, I firmly believe the head gasket problem was mainly an SEFI thing. The earlier engines don't seem to suffer from the problem. The head was redesigned in '88. Head gaskets started popping en masse in '88. Coincidence?

I would love to build a twice-turbo'd split-port 4.2 and stuff it into a 4-eye 'Bird. All of that real estate in front of the engine is just BEGGING for a pair of turbos. Unfortunately the aftermarket has not really responded well to the 3.8, but we're used to that - the aftermarket hasn't responded to our cars in general...
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: EricCoolCats on October 24, 2007, 06:39:46 PM
My first '84 3.8 had no head gasket issues until well after I sold it (sold @ 123K miles, HG's at around 150K miles). The current '84 blew the head gaskets somewhere around 105-106K. Actually the HG's on the current car weren't that bad...they didn't completely blow open but were really wrinkled up. The heads themselves cracked in a major way, which of course led to the HG warpage. Anyhow, in both cases the cars/engines were babied, since I know the history of both cars. It's not a matter of "if" the HG's are going to  the bed...it's a matter of "when".

The 1982-83 heads were for carbs (U.S.). Then 1984-87 were for CFI. Then the major redesign in 1988 for the EFI. I don't think even the valve covers interchange between all those heads. They were all completely unique designs that cannot really be mixed-or-matched; the shapes and ports are all different.

Even the 3.8 SC motors have their issues. I know SC guys that blow through HG's just like the N/A V6 guys. I do like the SC block design, and provided that quality HG's are used and head studs are installed, I think even an N/A SC block (like those found on 1994-2004 Mustang V6's) would probably withstand a lot of pressure from forced induction. Coupled with the SC heads...that's a very slick combo that can be assembled from relatively common cars/parts, and probably not for must cash either.

Of all my experience with the Ford 3.8 engine I'd have to say that, for some reason, I do feel more confortable with the CFI motors as far as the HG's are concerned. It seems like they do go a lot longer with the stock HG's. However...it's going to be different with every single car (YMMV) so there's really no pattern, no rhyme or reason. It's all a  shoot. Flip a coin. ;)
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: daminc on October 24, 2007, 07:46:36 PM
Did that get off track from the original question or is it just me?
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: blackcougar71 on October 24, 2007, 08:15:40 PM
i am building a v6 with cfi system with massive amounts of performance. so they cant be that bad of a motor.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: daminc on October 24, 2007, 08:39:19 PM
ok-- now i'm intrigued by massive amounts of performance from a v6
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: Sduneman3 on October 24, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
Go to 3.8mustang.com  There are a lot of guys that have power-adders on there motor's.  Granted, they have regular EFI, but I'm guessing that most of their stuff would work with just a little bit of re-wiring.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: JeremyB on October 25, 2007, 11:45:04 AM
Quote from: blackcougar71;184436
i am building a v6 with cfi system with massive amounts of performance. so they cant be that bad of a motor.

Quantify "massive" amounts for me please.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: Thunder Chicken on October 25, 2007, 01:51:46 PM
Look under his user name. "Project 900 horsepower V6". Either he's joking or he's building a Buick :hick:
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: JeremyB on October 25, 2007, 02:41:14 PM
Yeah, I saw that and when I ran the numbers to size 2 injectors for 900 hp, I fell out of my chair.  :p
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: blackcougar71 on October 25, 2007, 05:29:02 PM
i am not joking and yes its a ford cfi v6 just with alot of mystery,and  i cant tell your guys what i am doing to that motor till its done. so there wont be any copy-cats. under my username it says 900hp but the real number is over a 1000 thats my plan.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: jcassity on October 25, 2007, 11:51:04 PM
Quote from: daminc;184445
ok-- now i'm intrigued by massive amounts of performance from a v6


so am i,, as the avitar says ,,,,>>900 hp v6.

Im sure its possible but just long enough for it to explode in the first 10 seconds.

ok,,ill ask.

How did you get past the block design with it likey splitting????
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: jcassity on October 25, 2007, 11:55:32 PM
Quote from: blackcougar71;184593
i am not joking and yes its a ford cfi v6 just with alot of mystery,and  i cant tell your guys what i am doing to that motor till its done. so there wont be any copy-cats. under my username it says 900hp but the real number is over a 1000 thats my plan.


horsepower is like leverage,, i guess it just matters where you measure it from:shakeass:

please,, can i have some of what your smoking?  pass it around.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: Chris1987LX on November 01, 2007, 03:16:02 PM
I've got to be the most die-hard V-6 guy around, and if I'm not, I'm in the top five.  Check out my cardomain page for the little bit I've done. 

Chris
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: jcassity on November 03, 2007, 01:15:30 AM
Quote from: Chris1987LX;185783
I've got to be the most die-hard V-6 guy around, and if I'm not, I'm in the top five.  Check out my cardomain page for the little bit I've done. 

Chris


i agree, how you been btw?

I was re-stewing the 3.8L SC with the 4.2 innerds today while on the road.  Combine it with mega squirt and all.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: Chris1987LX on November 03, 2007, 09:12:28 AM
All is well. Took the Celica to Watkins Glen in September. Had a blast taking her onto the track.

My next V-6 will sport Wiseco forged postions, Pauter forged connecting rods, a competition head job, and maybe 60-90 overbore on the block. It's all in my head right now, but I can see it all now.

Chris
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: LJS30 on November 03, 2007, 09:52:10 AM
So a few of you guys claim some good power can be developed from the venerable 3.8?  Most of the aftermarket or buildups I see are based around the fuel injected versions, not the carb version in my mother's 83.
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: mpolarisf on November 03, 2007, 01:00:26 PM
swap to the 5.0 ;)
Title: 3.8 V-6 (can Anything Be Done!!!!!)
Post by: ipsd on November 03, 2007, 01:42:14 PM
If you really need to stay 3.8 find an 88 in the Junkyard and swap the parts to bring it to 88 spec, either that or find a good 3.8SC and start swapping that. I've owned and 88 and driven many 83-87 3.8 and there is a night and day difference. I never knew why people dogged on the 3.8 until I drove the CFI version. Then it was all to clear.