since I still have a second pair of Acura TL projectors sitting around, I figure its time to start trying to make a complete new headlight assembly. I don't think I can vacuum form a 1-piece headlight lens so its going to have to be headlight/inner as one light and the corner lamp as a second piece. As we all should know, there is a header panel mounting bar in between the inner markers and headlights so nothing can go there. Other than that, I'm open to ANY suggestions/photoshops you guys may have.
I was thinking of sticking TSX projectors in there for low beams and a seperate projector for highs (or just halogen highs) as they would make custom INTERNAL aiming mechanisms much easier with the 3" height (compared to the Acura TL's 4.6" of mounting height). Anyways, here are the closest two seperate projectors would be able to exist in the front of our cars - photoshop:
(http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/d2s.jpg)
Shrouds would be either flat black or vacuum chromed. The shape around the projectors would be far less pr0nounced. Of course, my plans still call for clear corner lights so not sure where to go there either. Marker/signal lights such as here: http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/DSC_1172.jpg could fit in well.
Wow, I see you're a few steps ahead of me. I was thinking of adapting the newer 2000-ish Impala light assemblies with some custom fender tpuppies and grille shell fitting via sheetmetal repro.
I like it.;)
Something like this would work well but we have MUCH more width in the front than most newer cars. There just isn't anything reasonable to fill in the inner marker spot with: (http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/DSC02101.jpg)
My other thought is taking the projectors inward from the TSX and hardwiring LED's into the middle markers to get past the header panel's mounting obstruction. It'd give me one of the best low beam projectors in terms of output and width, plus halogen high beams that don't care as much to be flicked on/off repeatedly (flash to pass, hookup to alarm, etc - ballasts don't like that kind of thing).
(http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/dsc00001ms1.jpg)
Of course, I could steal much of its housing in terms of protecting the projectors from weather and aiming capabilities. There may not be nearly enough mounting depth for this though, as the inner parts sit in quite a bit.
Well, either way would be really interesting.
I'm kinda thinking the TSX's would look better IMO, just because of the halogen lights don't look so ?weird? compared to the projectors.
I REALLY want to see this work in progress, and the final results!!!!
They can be done, but of course I'd have to use/chop off the reflector from another set of lights so that they may be mounted forward more so I may aim it straight. Using the TSX's reflector would likely render the amber light unusable since it attaches to the reflector near its peak/front. We're then back to having a gaping hole in between the projector and reflector unless something else can be mocked up in between (not easy as all the factory lights have perfectly smooth curves or very straight lines).
The current setup is here: http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/HID4.jpg
Its much more silver in person and looks better with the other lights off. I'll see if I have a picture. Either way, its the best I could do without merging front lights together.
My only shot with them off it seems is at the track
(http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/pir.jpg)
Those are SICK!!! A TC header panel modified to fit those would jut be HOT!!! What are they from? :bowdown:
PS - Hi myself and Layla in the pic! :hick:
Early 90's Lexus ES300. Older halogen projectors but a nice headlight design. It IS possible to do a similar design without chopping the car apart if you didn't mind the sharper corner. It would have to be split at the orange reflector though as it just isn't feasible without a lot of time/$$$ to make a lens that wraps completely around the front lights AND the rear of the corner lamp...it'd require a more special vacuum forming setup to suck from the middle of the chamber instead of from the bottom. No help from gravity at all then.
(http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/pict0472_7szl.jpg)
Early 90's ES300. Older halogen projectors. It IS possible to do a similar design without chopping the car apart if you didn't mind the sharper corner. It would have to be split at the orange reflector though as it just isn't feasible without a lot of time/$$$ to make a lens that wraps completely around the front lights AND the rear of the corner lamp...it'd require a more special vacuum forming setup to suck from the middle of the chamber instead of from the bottom. No help from gravity at all then.
(http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/pict0472_7szl.jpg)
I just wish the aftermarket made a nice one piece light assembly for our Birds like they do for the Mustangs (Fox bodies).There's are pretty cheap also.I wonder if the projector beam Stang lights could be grafted into our cars,meaning,take the projector beam Stang lights,cut the bucket assembly (or most of it),and graft it into our bucket assembly and add clear light covers?
Except they make the Mustang ones in batches of 10,000. We would be hard pressed to sell 100.
You do have a point there,Mike.
I'm surprised no one has any input. People love body kits and spoilers but don't want to mess with a DECENT set of headlights. Even new with 14.6v at the bulb the output wasn't all that great (hotspots) on the stock lights. The fogs helped somewhat with lighting everything up with glare but still lit up horribly against any non 9004-bulb vehicles (with exception of vans with two hotspots going down the road...in this case it was always nice to get back behind the bird's wheel).
With HID projectors its like highbeam output x2 all the time, nor does it care about 12v or 14v for output. Just a nice healthy 6,000 lumens right there on the road where you want it. Go with Philips' 50w bulbs in an overdriven 70w ballast (I think they've all been modified at this point - bosch, hella, matsushiznita, etc) and you have an illegal 12,000 lumens around 4500-5000 kelvin (35w bulbs ran at 70w will push the color into the 5000-6000 range).
Plus, you can glisten going down the road if you wish (mine are aimed a little down right now...doesn't flicker at the mirror level on other cars). Of course, it all comes at a price of up to $1000. Going cheap with FX35 projectors ($60), pair of used OEM ballasts and bulbs ($120), a clear lens ($50-100), and a little creativity can get a bi-xenon setup finished for $300.
Its too bad I can't keep the stock headlight appearance (they're not too bad looking when clean) AND have good illumination. I've always been function over form though so safety > looks.
I'm liking your first photoshop up there. I actually drew a pic like that about 10 years ago, fantasizing (I was thinking more along the lines of 2nd gen Integra lights when I drew it though).
As for what to do about corners, how about something like what I'm doing (pics below)? I used white resin (resin not shown in "off" pic) and painted the reflectors white because my car is white. You could use your choice of colours for the LED's of course - I used amber for PARK and white for TURN. I think they'd look badass in black on a black car...
I REALLY like the first photoshop. I does look like its missing something though. mabey its just the fact that i'm used to seeing these cars with inner-markers. VERY nice though. If they could be mounted in one straight line (taking the curves out from around and underneath the projectors0 i think it would be better. black top, and bottom, with chrome on that back piece. That would be more for looks, not actual functionality.
TC: YES! those look great! and I think in black they would fit with the photoshop pic. But what about vac forming that lense also? to get that perfectly clear look to it, and then using sonething like a combo of the LED's you are using and the circular marker from that lexus photo. Use the circle in front, and the LED's for the side. I think that would be cool.
Seek: Would it be possible to have all three lenses (inners, headlight and outers) formed in clear plastic like your headlight lenses are? Seperate? I ahve an Idea for them.
Do you make them, or did you adapt something existing/ Ive been looking for sonethign like that for a long time!
Im really not digging that 1 post headlight set up... I mean the projector light seems to be the thing but that set up looks to .. um out there...
My original lenses I had someone make as I didn't think I'd be dealing with plastic any time after that (hah, yeah right...). He only used a shop vac for vacuum and electric oven elements for heat. Less than 6IN HG of vacuum but it did the job "pretty well". The bottom part of the headlight wasn't pulled in as tight as I would have liked, but I worked around it by extending the headlight down further.
I'm likely going to make my own vacuum chamber as it isn't too hard and is pretty cheap but go a bit more overboard with a stronger pump with seperate tank. Making a 2 piece vs a 1 piece assembly would require the chamber to be much larger for the single piece and it'd take a lot of custom work but if I used more than one mold, one to distribute vacuum, I think it could be done.
The trick to vacuum is to seal the vacuum side off from the rest of the chamber so the dividing material (the polycarb) gets pulled down or inward. If I can keep this seal solid as the polycarb wraps around the mold, it'll pull in tight and have to be cut off (as it'll need to be done anyways to get rid of all the excess plastic). Instead of just throwing a large piece of plastic over something and having it get sucked down over a male mold to the bottom floor of a vacuum chamber, it would instead need to have vacuum applied at a raised mold with the outer edges of the chamber designed to support the shapeshifting polycarb without allowing a hole to punch through any wrinkles or folds that happen when the plastic is molding itself. I think with enough time and cheap/thin plastics for testing, a perfect setup could be made to make s certain type of lens. It'd all have to be pulled out and replaced with something else to make a different product though. I'm thinking having it setup so that the base, mold, etc are all molded into one and set into the chamber with perimeter gasketing to seal it from letting the vacuum pull from anywhere but the mold.
Anyways, I'm not doing a good job of describing it. Cost would be probably $150 for the vacuum chamber, $100 for a decent/low volume vacuum pump, small/used tank for vacuum and $50 for misc materials such as piping, fiberglass, etc. Then lots of s plastic for testing 500x before getting something perfect (and selling non-perfection to keep the project going ;) )
As for 6 piece clear lights, the front ones are SIMPLE, but the side will still give a little trouble to make without the above setup. Instead of pulling at 90 degree bends all around (the headlights curve more on the bottom, but less at the top so they can be setup to still give perfect "pull down" all around), the front would require 90 degrees but the wraparound piece would need to suck it in ANOTHER 90 degrees from the front of the lens (or the other way around depending on which way you want to be the "top"). It'd be much cheaper to make multiple copies/test of this small piece though until one is correct. Then there's always the overhang of the marker lights to cover the huge gap between them and the headlights. This part is impossible to reproduce I believe. They would have to be made wider at the mounting points and the housings would have to be modified inward a bit.
Mabey using a stepped/style projector and marker setup like this:
mabey without the halos
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-04-VW-JETTA-DUAL-HALO-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHTS-BLACK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33710QQihZ004QQitemZ140167451124QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
I think that would be small enough to adapt to the inside of our lense. That with the clear inners and outers (vac formed lexan) i think it would be sweet.
I would be thinking more along the lines of using TSX projectors in the middle. They are 2.5" projectors instead of 3" like the TL's. The projector in the middle would be a little smaller which may go along with the false impression that the inside light is smaller than the outer lights (it doesn't really taper down until the last second, not as bad as the non-TC nose though).
BTW, he does have them up on his site everyone, for referance (the guy who made them for Seek)
http://www.izntrbl.com/thunderbird-clear-headlight-lenses-p-259.html?cPath=7_101
Throw that into paint or photoshop. I don't think it'll end up looking as good as you think. Our front light assembly is VERY wide.
I emailed him about the Saturn thing many times. He just copied an existing page and stuck new pictures on there. Either way, I never got around to even opening the box up that he sent me with my lenses in it as I WAS going to perfect them a bit more and send them back. I'd have to do that and send them back if he ever gets an order for the lenses. Either way, last I knew, he's still using the same setup and I don't think the bottom lip would be much better the next time. I'd rather attempt to do this myself and offer them for less than $110 (his price). Once right (which for those lenses, isn't hard to perfect), its literally like $5 in materials for a pair, some time cutting them out, boxing them up and shipping them. I still think I could do a great job if I had different static setups for each type of lens. Pull one out of the chamber, throw another in, place a sheet of polycarb on the "shelf"/holder it'd sit in, lower it into place and let the heat/vacuum do its thing.
Carm: Nice! Those are really good!
Seek: Would an old sandblasting cabinet make a good vacuum chamber? It even has a motor...
Birdman: . $110 for those. You can still get NOS headlights for $175-$200/pair shipped from evilbay. That's a lot of dough for plastic.
I think Matt is on the right path. Seeing as how no company is willing to make lights in batches of 100, doing 1-off custom stuff like this is how to get these jobs done. All of the ideas in this thread are just awesome!
I agree: 110 is too much LOL I think seek is right, building a vac table setup is about the cheapest way to do it.
I'm going to try something this week with my old nasty spare headlight I have. I'll get back to you guys on that.
Whats the easiest way to separate the lense from the shroud/assy? heat? I tried the dremel, but i just chopped it up good :Hick: I dont want to tear up or cut either piece.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/321255/8
Take a look at what this guy did. He used Chrome plating/tape of some sort to fill in all the spots on the reflector. I need some of that for my project.
And thats a bad ass mini-van LOL!
It's been in the works for awhile since I haven't had much time to work on it, but this is exactly what I'm doing. I have the lights, done some measuring, and have started cutting the header panel, but haven't gotten any further yet.:D
I'll be interesting in seeing it if its ever completed. Its much easier to start a project than complete. You run into SO many roadblocks along the way and any one of them could make you change your mind on it being worth the trouble. How are the measurements for the high beam? It looks like it'd be tight at the mounting bolts if it'd even fit at all.
I'm still sticking with the assumption that it won't be possible to throw any other car's headlights into ours without having either mounting issues with the middle mounting bolts or it'll just look plain stupid with our wide and still somewhat boxy front ends (compared to say the Lexus earlier in this thread that has much more curve). The closest thing we have is other ford headlights of similar year models.
I just don't see them working as shown below. Even then, I apparently made the lights wider than they actually are a little bit which would help them clear the mounting bolts slightly better. Original car in comparison to show the difference in headlight widths, different curves, etc. I left the taper towards the center in there as that will also need to be taken into account when modifying the header panel. Fiberglass nightmare in my opinion but I'm not a big bodywork guy.
(http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/imptb.jpg)
I don't see a pic. ??
In my preliminary figurings, I'd be bending sheetmetal to hammerform the header panel and headlight brackets. I'm in no hurry, as I know it'll be a long and difficult road. The scary part is, going through all that work, only to have someone back into ya in the parking lot. Or even worse, do it and then say it doesn't look good.
the picture is there...or click here: http://home.comcast.net/~seekproj/imptb.jpg
Why the sheetmetal? I'd just modify the header panel with more fiberglass. That is, unless you're talking about the fender portion which would be very minimal.
edit:
Oh, and I've got a vacuum pump ordered. I'm thinking either going dual tanks for a 2-stage setup or using a shopvac for the initial pull (as the air under the polycarb will kill much of the vacuum in a tank), using a 20 gallon tank as the second stage for the more tight pull for edge perfection.
only cuz I want to keep my header panel just in case.
Thanks for the pic/link (well it was a red X). I see there'd probably need more "nose" contour to line the lights up. Kinda more of a Pro-Street effect, lol. Which means the bumper would probably have to point out more too. Of course my initial thoughts back when I first had the idea was to french the lights on the fender side to make the lights contour without stretching the nose.
Your experiments in plastic sounds interesting. Is there any websites that discuss that?
Nothing really as far as vacuum forming. There are a couple message boards at http://www.tk560.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1 and http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=291 . As for as vacuum chambers, I have yet to find one better than the one here: http://www.halloweenfear.com/vacuumformintro.html . A really cheap setup was built by this guy earlier this year http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=621858 . People seem to really like the plans here http://www.tk560.com/vactable4.html but I can't see that working for anything with any thickness. Besides, I'd rather have a larger chamber I can build within and have heaters located at both the top and bottom. The heating element is one of the better ways of warming the chamber up though.
What ever happened to this project?
Yes,an update would be nice.I'm still interested,even though since this thread started I now have an NOS set of headlights (SWEET !!!).
Just keep rubbing it in...hahaha
This project was on a long hold due to drive train work. I should be resuming this within the next few months - I have a pair of TL's and a pair of TSX's to retrofit. I need to build a good vacuum forming box that can do 3 angle forming so I can attempt to make some single piece headlight lenses. I'm not sure how well this will work without causing distortions on the deeply pulled (cornering lamps) area but without perfection, I think I can get good clean pulls easily. 29 inHg of vacuum and a large tank can do some great stuff (compared to the results I've seen of people using standard shopvacs).
I am hoping to do this not only for myself, but get a molding design down that can be used for other members and custom shapes - it just takes a lot of test runs before getting the perfect molds. If worse comes to worse, I can settle for two piece front lights - much easier to make. Of course, once complete, my current "draft" pieces will be on eBay to help get some of the money back I wasted on all the attempts to make the lights. They're not up to my expectations of what they should look like. You have to look very closely and at the edges from the underside, with the lights off, but they're not good enough for me to claim them.
i'm just gonna have a set of aftermarket fox mustang projectors molded into my existing bezel with a strip of leds along the bottom for marker/signal.
then i can use the existing signal location for led driving lights.
Take pics.I need to see this.
How'd you do that? I've always considered creating "new" my headlights, I just never knew what I should do.
I'd pay a couple of hundred bucks for some cool one piece aftermarket lights..............if they existed.
well the lights i got planned are for the 4eye fox. and to answer the question of how?
dremel the headlights you want out of the current housings, make sure they are properly aligned in the desired housings, and fiberglass them in. only potential problem is the outer lense, but when using modern headlights, the projector or reflector handle the optics, so a basic acrylic or plastic lense will do fine.
A while back, there was somebody that sold a conversion kit for 4-eyes It adapted flush Mercedes Benz lights (this is pre-HID of course).
It should be relatively easy to convert an 87-88 to HID.
Okay, so I am working on a planning stage for this again - my timeline is to start this project later next year when I should have plenty of garage space to work within.
I currently have spare sets of Acura TL and Acura TSX projectors that I was planning on using inside new headlights. With LED's clearly gaining ground, I am unsure if I should ditch the HID idea and go with them for their advantages. I need peoples' help on deciding. Perhaps I should install both to use the advantages of both technologies?
Pros and Cons of each setup as I see it:
HID:
- 3,000 lumens from each projector
- 35w(12v) per bulb
- $100 per projector, $40 bulb, $100 ballast/ignniter
- 4300 kelvin
- One light on each side of vehicle is enough - would be using 4 projectors in my install
- Efficient
- Needs ballast/projector which takes up room/additional cost/wiring complication
- Larger projectors are more difficult to install into header panel
- Shouldn't flash highbeams if lights are off
LED:
- Up to around 1,000 lumens per LED module
- About 15w(12v) per LED/resistor module
- About $50 per LED/$100 per projector
- 6000 kelvin
- Smaller projectors for easier build
- LED's can flicker on/off as often as desired - flash to pass
- Requires custom heatsink design
- Low lumen output per LED module
I also need some ideas on an adjusting mechanism that can adjust each projector individually. My current headlights had no way of adjusting them internally for pivot so I had so keep cutting the fiberglass, turning it slightly, and re-glassing them into place. I got them basically perfect but this isn't easily possible with two or more projectors per side.
I am out of go-fast, stop-quick, stop-bounce&roll work so I have nothing to do but these new body and interior projects. I "may" be able to start working on all but the lenses in the near future.
There are some projectors with solenoids for flash-to-pass. You could use those for low beams, your others for high. Some of the solenoids need an additional circuit, depending on the type of solenoid. (I've got both if you want some pics.)
My problem is I haven't yet figured out how to install them.
That's doesn't help when the lights are off and metal halide bulbs do not like being flickered on and off.
Sorry, my description fails.
The solenoids are fitted to HIDs that run as 'low beams', the solenoids flick a flapper that simulates a high beam flash-to-pass. In other words, you have low-beam HIDs with 'instant' flashing ability.
Bi-xenon - the projectors on my car right now do that. You still shouldn't use flash to pass when the bulbs are not lit. LED's do not care if you flicker them on and off.
If you're looking for something to flash when the headlights are turned off, couldn't you put some halogens somewhere for that purpose, especially if you're building your own? It shouldn't be too hard to wire something to switch between the halogens and HIDs based on whether the headlights are "on".
edit>>
OTOH, I've got nothing against LEDs. If you've got an idea on how to execute an install, go for it. You could even use a PWM for an infinitely (sort of) variable intensity. Label max as "11", just in case somebody oncoming fails to dim.
How much work would be involved to adapt this idea for Cougars? Would you consider? Just curious.
What about a hybrid solution--one bi-Xenon and one LED module per side, with the LED only for flash-to-pass?
When the time comes, I will have to see how easily I can pop one out for myself. I still believe the best way to do this is a special mold inside a vacuum forming box that will help the polycarbonate keep a seal so the vacuum will keep pulling the headlight all around the lens mold. The rear piece will likely just be formed from fiberglass as I don't trust injection mold plastics to hold up to the heat that headlights can put out. Again though, a decent mold would make this easy. The hard part is because we have no aftermarket clear lenses so retrofits onto our cars are a little more difficult.
I still haven't come up with a decent adjusting mechanism.
Did you ever complete a second set? Pictures?
No I haven't - I need another garage before I can get this done but there's a good chance it'll start next summer. I've got all the parts, I just need room to build my ideal vacuum forming chamber that will let me pull the polycarbonate from two angles instead of one like normal (pull down AND OVER). I have to do this right the next time, for a single piece front light set, or at the very least a two piece. Basically I need the corner piece to pull down to a point source to get the lens to wrap in along the front and side.
I expect I will waste a few hundred dollars in just s polycarb materials before I get a working chamber, then having to perfect a mold. It's not easy to get a piece vacuumed down AND over without storing a huge amount of vacuum - you need even heating, speed, and vacuum that can hold until the piece is wrapped around the mold. I've yet to figure out a way to remove the mold without destroying it if the piece will be the cornering lamp area.
Other car projects have also put this on hold but I'm pretty much out of things to do on it. Bug me again in a year and I may have some pictures of the current progress :p
LED's are sure getting up there in terms of efficiency. In the lab they are up to just about 190 lumens per watt now, absolutely dominating the 90 lumens per watt from HID. More light and less heat dissipation means easier retrofits (no need for a ballast).
Does anyone have any information on the actual laws on having more than 2 low beam lights? I've tried looking for cannot find much. I assume the middle lights on 05+ Mustangs are marketed as "auxiliary" or something?
The 05+ Mustangs are indeed fog lamps. The beam pattern shines in the area just ahead of the front end behind the low beams and spreads more to the sides.
I've got some parts coming that will be used for these headlights, including new bulbs that I will use in my currently headlights as my current ones are pretty aged by now and the light has diminished noticeably.
Does anyone have any ideas for an adjustment design that allows full up/down/left/right AND rotation adjustment? I'm thinking of using something like 4 threaded rods for the main adjustment and smaller bolts that can be loosened and tightened from the rear to allow rotation within a cut path. While crude, it is easier to build than trying to some up with a design that can rotate the projectors using a threaded rod which WOULD allow for simpler adjustment though. Either way, with our header panels, the headlights would have to be removed from the car to be adjusted in any case.