Technical => Audio & Other Aftermarket Electronics => Topic started by: Blown306Cougar on September 29, 2007, 02:33:00 PM
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on September 29, 2007, 02:33:00 PM
i bin looking to do this for a long time now about two years.. reason why is for a few reasons..
1. dolby digital 5.1 2. most of what i have is on DVD and are live concerts and allso recorded in 5.1 DOLBY or DTS 3. since they are live there are meny pro's and cons to having live concerts on DVD.. 4. the 4 8's i'm useing would be great for studio recordings and or the typical stereo system. but since it's live and in 5.1 they can't handel the way live concerts are recorded.. lol if they are recorded right.. all the bass comes threw the subs.. ie bass drum and bass guitar and the low end of the electric guitar..
anyway.
i allready installed pro 6 1/2's in the doors and deck a while back..
and now it's time for the subs.. to replace the 4 8's i'm installing a set if madison executioners 12's i usely hate large drivers but since they are pro 12's they won't flutter like most 12's. i hate muddy bass when it should'nt exist..not that it should'nt exist at all but only when it was recorded that way..
i could only find a few picture none by me but this is what they look like
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: booksix on September 30, 2007, 05:55:47 PM
A "Pro Audio" (which by definition would be audio gear used in a studio or public address system) sub over a good car audio sub isn't going to make a big difference in "muddiness." Because of the interior of a car (no parallel surfaces, no 90's, etc...) there is little to no chance of standing waves (dips or peak in low end frequencies) forming. The only thing you'll do by using "pro audio" speakers in your car is create mismatched impedances...
Also, whether it's studio or live, all the low-end should come through the subs, assuming you know how to properly adjust your crossover...
Title: speakers/subs are important but electronics are more important.
Post by: blackcatdaddy on October 02, 2007, 04:11:16 PM
You can use the best speakers in the world, but if you amps are or you don't use a DSP(signal processor) you can hang it up. There is no replacement. Additionally, home speakers may not hold up well in the extreme heat and cold environment of our cars. The materials are usually quite different. You need clean power and lots of it. So if you did not know, there is a lot more to this than good speakers. Look into a 3g or better alt upgrade, a capacitor, heavy gauge power wires and a good signal processor to start with. BTW most amps put out peak power in the 2-4 ohm range. I would suggest a 2 chanel for the subs and a 5 chanel for the inside speakers. A good center for the car is a lil hard to find for a decent price. Good luck and let us know how things turn out. I've sold/installed car audio in the past and currently sell/instal home audio. Let me know it you got any questions.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on October 02, 2007, 05:16:01 PM
Quote from: booksix;179870
The only thing you'll do by using "pro audio" speakers in your car is create mismatched impedances...
why because you see that the speakers are 8 ohms? thats why i'm wiring them in parallel which is 4 ohms..
Quote from: blackcatdaddy;180293
You can use the best speakers in the world, but if you amps are or you don't use a DSP(signal processor) you can hang it up. There is no replacement. Additionally, home speakers may not hold up well in the extreme heat and cold environment of our cars. The materials are usually quite different. You need clean power and lots of it. So if you did not know, there is a lot more to this than good speakers. Look into a 3g or better alt upgrade, a capacitor, heavy gauge power wires and a good signal processor to start with. BTW most amps put out peak power in the 2-4 ohm range. I would suggest a 2 chanel for the subs and a 5 chanel for the inside speakers. A good center for the car is a lil hard to find for a decent price. Good luck and let us know how things turn out. I've sold/installed car audio in the past and currently sell/instal home audio. Let me know it you got any questions.
lol ok guys i guess you don't know much about me..
like you maybe i have bin doing this for meny years since i was a teenager... home/car audio and drivetrain build ups.. and i build my own speaker enclosures and have bin since i was a teenager allso..
and yes i have a DLP.. a panasonic CY-AC300 DOLBY/DTS 5.1 decoder is my head and a panasonic CX-DVP292 DVD player in the dash..
and yes i have a 3G alt.
and yes i ran a 4 gauge cable from the battery to the amps..
i'm useing a us acoustics 2150 in mono for my subs 450 watts RMS not peak.. it's 150X2 RMS in 4 ohms in stereo. bridged in 4 ohms it's 450 watts.
for my deck "L/R rears" and doors L/R front" i'm useing a us acoustics 4085 85X4 RMS in 4 ohms
for my dash "center" i have an old concord 50.2 for now 50X2
oh and and as for home or pro audio drivers not holding up to extreme heat and cold environment of our cars. the speakers i had in the doors and deck and dash i just took out where home use and they lasted allmost 4 years old and worked fine when i took them out.
and the ones before that where swaped out from my mustang in to the cougar that i had since 1994.. wrecked the mustang in the summer of 2000
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: BIGmeat15071 on October 02, 2007, 05:42:26 PM
Do you only have 1 US Acoustics 2150 amp? Or 2? If only one, you will be putting less than 50% RMS power to each sub. That's not a good way to avoid muddy bass.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on October 02, 2007, 08:18:29 PM
yes at this time i'm only useing one 2150 in mono at this time.."450watts" i know i may have to up it to a 2200 sometime down the road or just another 2150 and use one for each driver.. or maybe an old school hifonics zues.. thats 900watts RMS @ 4ohms mono..
Nick
Title: just a little update
Post by: Blown306Cougar on March 31, 2008, 05:59:54 PM
things are still a little messy i work on it from time to time..
some pictures
the pictures of the speakers in the rear deck are the same in the doors.. 6 1/2" woofers,5 1/4 mid's, and 1" cloth dome tweeters.. yes i fit all those speakers in each door.. :D and all behind factory panels:evilgrin:
enjoy
Nick..
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on March 31, 2008, 06:01:57 PM
more
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on March 31, 2008, 06:04:08 PM
still more
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Masejoer on March 31, 2008, 08:45:18 PM
Nice setup although it may have its faults (why a 5 1/4" alongside a 6 1/2? Why not, say, 6 1/2 or 7 along a 3" and a tweeter?). Have any specs on the subs? Most people think negatively about 8ohm speakers in car audio but more times than not, they are more efficient than the similar 4ohm speaker (3db more efficient often enough). Half the current draw, yet the same output per one gain setting on the amp! I'm interested in seeing the doors and how you handled that. I best I can see up front behind factory panels is a midbass/midrange in the doors and a tweeter in the black exterior mirror covers. Anything other than this and you have problems with the drivers pointed at the door panel itself rather than out the grill (without custom fabrication).
I just got two Alpine PDX 4.150's for $200 and $140 (great deal - I had to impulse buy)so they'll be replacing my 2.150 and Eclipse XA1000. Subs should receive 450w each and my front stage will get 150w at 8ohms. Best of all, nothing interferes with ANY space in the trunk or elsewhere. I will probably have to remove those cross braces now due to the excursion of these subs (1.5" one way xmax - basically made for infinite baffle) at the higher power levels. I'll be keeping a lookout for the 1.1000 for a good deal so that they can get the 600w each they want but for now, the current setup will do with the subs wired up in stereo. Small amps fit in small places ;)
Even with these amps though, I still have the big wires using Kicker 0awg Hyperflex until necessary to break down to 4awg (like at the amps). No voltage drop even at idle with the efficiency of Class D.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on March 31, 2008, 10:02:26 PM
this is the specs for the 12's http://www.shredmuzic.com/product_p/813-004.htm
and is why i need a bigger amp:D
and the reason for the mids i had 4" mids but they where to tinny and the 5 1/4's are much smoother and cleaner.. and the tweeters well.. like i said i'm running true 5.1 right out of the DVD to the decoder.. so their are 5 yes i said 5 tweeters and only play 6000hz and up..
if i was running a regular stereo setup i would have only use two of them..
the 6 1/2 are for a fill in on each ch. in dolby and dts each ch is a full band of fq ie about 20-20000hz
with the subs as a LFE
the mids run from about 400-8000hz and the 6's run from 80-5000hz and most live recordings they mix those ch to fill any lower in fq would be to muddy and noisy.unless i put 10's or 12's in the door and deck:D i don't need mud in the doors and deck i have enough of it coming out of the 12's behind the seat..
you asked how did i get all those speakers in my door well:D
the 6's are in the factory spot and the mids and tweeters are behind the carpet right on top of the 6's...yes i cut metal behind the door panel and the metal behind the carpet and pulled the foam off the carpet.. and cut the plastic panel..looking at the doors and rear deck it looks factory and look like it was never touched..
this is what used in the doors and deck for mids and tweeters.. you will say WTF! but it works.. oh and the 6's
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Tbird232ci on April 01, 2008, 10:17:59 PM
Were the speakers in the 5x7 setup removable?
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Masejoer on April 04, 2008, 12:35:14 AM
Thats way too much overlap on the midrange and midbass if it isn't setup on a single crossover (either active or passive) range. Talk about a cancellation and imaging nightmare. To each their own I guess. I'm sure it sounds decent with movies though as long as the fade is setup to a point where the "sweet spot" is one of the seating positions. You wouldn't have to worry as much about time alignment issues if its movies but I can't imagine music detail being all that great compared to a decent front stage installation.
I need to make some speaker pods one of these days to fix my own issues. I'm thinking of trying some Seas W18NX drivers and compare to the Aurum Cantus I use now - great midbass drivers but I hear the Seas have much better midrange detail than basically anything out there. I don't think the paper cones are treated though to kickpanel pods are a must. Efficiency is down a few db at 1 watt too. Either way, at $400 for the pair, they sure had better sound good (I'm trying to find a used pair around $250).
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Carpimp1987 on April 04, 2008, 02:34:19 AM
For audio i know a few good things that work for these cars not trying to hijack this thread. But i gotta put all my old stuff out of my 87 T-bird into my 88 Cougar XR7 so i might change a few things next time around.
1. Buy good speakers but AMPs are where most of the money should go.
2. Use some kind of stuff to keep the sound inside of the cars
3. A good working EQ makes everything better
4. 3G alt super nice to have and its good you have it
5. these pics show 2 good ways to get to sound out of the trunk and into the car better.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: ipsd on April 05, 2008, 01:11:54 AM
the best way to get low bass out of the trunk and into the interior is block the cancellation between the sound waves reflecting around the trunk. there are to ways you can do this play with box position and rotation until you find the sweet spot[bass is the loudest]. or you can seal the front of the speaker to the interior. that keeps all the reflecting sound from canceling the sounds you want. if you do it this way you are making the interior the only place that the sound waves are firring into. that would be like building a box to put the speaker into then building another box that the speaker is firring into. the simplest way to put it is it would be like sitting inside the speaker box. that is how they do it in the pro sound competitions. i personally run sub's only in the rear and a good set of mids and tweets in the doors aimed for best imaging. i know the last time i had my amp installed and working with the 2x10's and 2x12's running a free air setup that is sealed to the interior with about 800 watts in a 1ohm setup i could pound my self and the car to death if i wanted to. i'm not a basshead the mids and tweets will keep up and rip your head off all by themselves.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: kendoo130 on April 05, 2008, 09:56:31 AM
the mids run from about 400-8000hz and the 6's run from 80-5000hz
Isn't this frequency a little too low for your 6's? Please post some pics of the door with and without the door panel if you can. Thanks.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 05, 2008, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Carpimp1987;212472
For audio i know a few good things that work for these cars not trying to hijack this thread. But i gotta put all my old stuff out of my 87 T-bird into my 88 Cougar XR7 so i might change a few things next time around.
1. Buy good speakers but AMPs are where most of the money should go.
2. Use some kind of stuff to keep the sound inside of the cars
3. A good working EQ makes everything better
4. 3G alt super nice to have and its good you have it
5. these pics show 2 good ways to get to sound out of the trunk and into the car better.
hijack all you want ;)
anyway
everyone has there opinon on what they think is the right way to hook things up and install and all so how it should sound.
all i can say about what i know and experince is..
i've bin doing this stuff and that means...
1 building drive trains for cars since i was old enough to drive.
2 car audio systems again as long as i was old enough to drive.
3 building home audio systems since back in the day when i was pounching the clown to farrah fawcett :o
now about what you stated.. ;)
1 you think the amp's i used are cheap? they where build by Zed audio for us acoustics like a lot of other amp's back in the day. like alphasonik,hifonics,esx and some others i can't think of off the top of my head.
2 you hear very little audio from my car from the outside of my car when the doors and windows are closed. and just a little audio with the windows open..
3 if you use the right drivers and wire them up right you should'nt have the need for an eq an eq is just an easyer way to ajust the Fq's
and yes i have a 3g alt..
on a few notes stated on this thread..
low bass.. it's not how loud it could be it's about the corect sounding bass.
imaging.. again i'm not running a 2 channel setup. i'm running dolby an dts 5.1 digital.. and your sitting in a room ie car pen 15pit thats about 5ft by 6ft..
try sitting in the middle of a room thats 16ft by 16ft or larger with just two Magnepan/Magneplanar speakers and your listening to roger waters and you hear some people talking in the song. BUT you don't hear them talking in the room you hear them talking in your front yard.. thats! imaging! and was how i was able to sell my old MG1's Magnepan Magneplanar to some one whom thought hugh speakers with hugh drivers where the best.. he was quoted saying what the hell are these peices of junk? i said my friend these peices of junk new where like $2000.00 in 1980 new just listen to them..
and threw the song i stated he poped up and looked in he's front yard.. so i stop the song and said let me guess some people in your front yard? he said yes i said nope it's just in the song..he said no F'n way so i replayed the song where i knew where the people talked two more time to prove it and he was like WTF! sold!
oh and the guy who bought my speakers sold home and car stereos..
this was like 1994 when i sold those speakers.
i'm not taking any of your comments as an insolt
i'm just stating what i know..
it took till my mid teens to my late teens to understand what music is soposed to sound like..it takes some time to deal with what you thought music is soposed to sound like and understand what it really soposed to sound like..
you should look at my music collection:D from yanni to slip knot;)
trust me over the years the kid comes out in me once in a while and i crank the shiznit out of my system and when i'm done my ears ring..
i hope i did'nt give anyone to much of headake with my rambling..
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: cougarcragar on April 05, 2008, 02:33:23 PM
I bought four of these speakers based on Nick's advice and got them for less than $30 with shipping included. Save for some basic wiring, they were a direct bolt-in in my '96. They sound great, too. If you're using them for mids and highs, they should do the job very well for the investment.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 05, 2008, 02:35:24 PM
Hummm I need some help with this I like what your doing, I plan on doing a full either POLK, or JBL set up in my mark. I want some intense low bass, but I want some bass coming from my other speakers, not just the subs. Im guessing going with component speakers is my best bet correct? http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/speakers/6-1-2/sr6500/ I know they are EXPENSIVE, but I NEVER want to buy another set of speakers, and im HARD on stereos. (blown 2 subs, 3 floor speakers, 2 sets of bookshelfs in my house system.)
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Haystack on April 05, 2008, 09:02:39 PM
Quote from: daboss351;212648
Hummm I need some help with this I like what your doing, I plan on doing a full either POLK, or JBL set up in my mark. I want some intense low bass, but I want some bass coming from my other speakers, not just the subs. Im guessing going with component speakers is my best bet correct? http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/speakers/6-1-2/sr6500/ I know they are EXPENSIVE, but I NEVER want to buy another set of speakers, and im HARD on stereos. (blown 2 subs, 3 floor speakers, 2 sets of bookshelfs in my house system.)
psshh. Light weight. I had at least that (minus subs, unless you count home stereo's) by the time I was 12...
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Carpimp1987 on April 05, 2008, 09:25:03 PM
Should i replace the kenwood deck in my 88 T-bird with a my old pioneer 4900 and buy a 5900 for my Cougar? Since you have been doing this stuff for awhile just thought i might ask.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 05, 2008, 11:24:12 PM
Quote from: daboss351;212648
Hummm I need some help with this I like what your doing, I plan on doing a full either POLK, or JBL set up in my mark. I want some intense low bass, but I want some bass coming from my other speakers, not just the subs. Im guessing going with component speakers is my best bet correct? http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/speakers/6-1-2/sr6500/ I know they are EXPENSIVE, but I NEVER want to buy another set of speakers, and im HARD on stereos. (blown 2 subs, 3 floor speakers, 2 sets of bookshelfs in my house system.)
well those speaker are nice sounding for a SQ system..
in my eyes still not worth the money.
rated from 50to250 watts 125 watts continuous..
and 40hz-30khz
not 40hz and @125 watts cranked up.. "FART! SIZZLE! BOOM!
40hz-30khz with 50 watts would sound nice
that speaker @125 watts would only sound good from about 80-90hz to 30khz
but for what you want to use them for they won't work..unless you did what i stated above..
but again to much money..
you can't put enough power threw those speakers to hear them over the loud pounding subs you want to install..
you want drivers that you can beat the SPLEEN out of them and still work afterwards..
besides you don't want to much bass out of the doors for a few reasons.
1 the doors would have to be damped big time for the doors will rattle real bad.. 2 you can get bass below 80-90hz in small speakers like 5 1/4's and 6 1/2's they won't sound right and might even fart more then you after a big night of beer drinking and chinese for dinner..
if you want deep bass out of your doors you will have to instill a set of 10's to get that bass and good luck getting those to fit.. theres only 3 1/2" from the face of the sheet metal on the door and the door glass..
if you used good clean amp with the right wattage amp of the speakers you would'nt blow speakers..
the then that blows speakers more then over powering them is distortion of course if you push 150watts threw a 50watt speaker that will fry it all so in short order if you crank the death out of it..
the trick to making the doors sound good is to make it sound like theres bass coming out of them but not like they are the only thing making bass..
Quote from: kendoo130;212624
the mids run from about 400-8000hz and the 6's run from 80-5000hz
Isn't this frequency a little too low for your 6's? Please post some pics of the door with and without the door panel if you can. Thanks.
ok when i get a chance i will take a door panel off and take some pic's for you..
Quote from: Carpimp1987;212699
Should i replace the kenwood deck in my 88 T-bird with a my old pioneer 4900 and buy a 5900 for my Cougar? Since you have been doing this stuff for awhile just thought i might ask.
is that a real question or a smart a$$ question lol:p
i don't know what options either deck has to answer that question..
i never said i knew everything;)
what options do either deck have?
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 05, 2008, 11:40:08 PM
Quote from: Haystack;212694
psshh. Light weight. I had at least that (minus subs, unless you count home stereo's) by the time I was 12...
only had the stereo set up for about 3 years. First speakers blew the tweeters then the cones exploded. I have some polk floor speakers right now, blew one cone up in one of them. They are THE BEST floors ive ever had.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Quietleaf on April 05, 2008, 11:43:38 PM
For my $0.02, it all depends on WHAT KIND OF MUSIC YOU LISTEN TO. For instance, I mainly listen to '70's-'00's rock/alternative, which means tight, punchy bass (as opposed to booming bass). So I don't need large-diameter subs so much as cones that are stiff, with high efficiency. So I went with MB Quart Autobahn up front, MB Quart Discus in the rear deck, and one MB Quart 10" sub in the trunk. The Autobahn series has a 6 1/2" (I think) midbass in the doors and titanium tweeter that goes in place of the 3 1/2" in the dash. Titanium tweeters are "bright" in the sense that the highs are really crisp and noticeable (though I have an active crossover that is somewhat the reason for this as well). The Discus are pure rear fill, and the smallish sub is perfect for the music type (but it wouldn't be for something like rap, which makes my ears bleed). I deliberately went with round speakers in the rear deck to maximize sound quality, once again, because of the music type. The sub has its own dedicated amp which takes the load off the other amp for everything else. I went for pure sound quality since the music I listen to covers the entire frequency range (as opposed to the stuff the kiddies listen to today :flip: )
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 05, 2008, 11:46:19 PM
Quote from: Blown306Cougar;212724
well those speaker are nice sounding for a SQ system..
in my eyes still not worth the money.
rated from 50to250 watts 125 watts continuous..
and 40hz-30khz
not 40hz and @125 watts cranked up.. "FART! SIZZLE! BOOM!
40hz-30khz with 50 watts would sound nice
that speaker @125 watts would only sound good from about 80-90hz to 30khz
but for what you want to use them for they won't work..unless you did what i stated above..
but again to much money..
you can't put enough power threw those speakers to hear them over the loud pounding subs you want to install..
you want drivers that you can beat the SPLEEN out of them and still work afterwards..
besides you don't want to much bass out of the doors for a few reasons.
1 the doors would have to be damped big time for the doors will rattle real bad.. 2 you can get bass below 80-90hz in small speakers like 5 1/4's and 6 1/2's they won't sound right and might even fart more then you after a big night of beer drinking and chinese for dinner..
if you want deep bass out of your doors you will have to instill a set of 10's to get that bass and good luck getting those to fit.. theres only 3 1/2" from the face of the sheet metal on the door and the door glass..
if you used good clean amp with the right wattage amp of the speakers you would'nt blow speakers..
the then that blows speakers more then over powering them is distortion of course if you push 150watts threw a 50watt speaker that will fry it all so in short order if you crank the death out of it..
the trick to making the doors sound good is to make it sound like theres bass coming out of them but not like they are the only thing making bass..
ok when i get a chance i will take a door panel off and take some pic's for you..
is that a real question or a smart a$$ question lol:p
i don't know what options either deck has to answer that question..
i never said i knew everything;)
what options do either deck have?
Nick
Ok I have 2 spots in my doors for speakers and my factory speaker harness is SHOT, and HACKED, so im gonna wire in everything with amps. I can fit like a 8 inch speaker in the lower hole, and a 6 1/2 up top, in this bracket that pulls the speaker about 2 inchs out ward into the mark 7 door panel. Rear speakers are still there, they are factory JBL units. No idea if they work. I want 2 12in subs, and I want my stereo to sound good, with awesome bass when I want it, and I want to be able to turn it up and down, and have my radio settings of bass have no effect on them if thats possible. I HATED the sony xplods( i know cheapos) 3 ways i put in my bros escort, NO mids and lows, insane highs. I want a nice LOUD balance. Help me out, I am lost as to how to do this. I listen to everything from 70's rock, to rap. So I want to be able to throw in some rap, and crank the bass, but have awesome mids for my rock. I will have a 3g soon, so amps will be easy.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Quietleaf on April 05, 2008, 11:57:25 PM
I'll never use a Sony amp again. I've blown two really good JL Audio subs because of the DC it was putting out, and it always overheated. Now I've got a Phonenix Gold amp driving the sub and a PPI amp driving everything else. The PPI amp is terrific, but it has a downside -- no crossovers. So there's a PPI active crossover taking that over.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 06, 2008, 12:02:39 AM
see I know nothing other then wiring it all in! Someone help me set up some good subs and a box, amps, and speakers, and a good head unit py sony one i have is only set up for one amp so its no good
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 06, 2008, 12:10:35 AM
Quote from: daboss351;212732
Ok I have 2 spots in my doors for speakers and my factory speaker harness is SHOT, and HACKED, so im gonna wire in everything with amps. I can fit like a 8 inch speaker in the lower hole, and a 6 1/2 up top, in this bracket that pulls the speaker about 2 inchs out ward into the mark 7 door panel. Rear speakers are still there, they are factory JBL units. No idea if they work. I want 2 12in subs, and I want my stereo to sound good, with awesome bass when I want it, and I want to be able to turn it up and down, and have my radio settings of bass have no effect on them if thats possible. I HATED the sony xplods( i know cheapos) 3 ways i put in my bros escort, NO mids and lows, insane highs. I want a nice LOUD balance. Help me out, I am lost as to how to do this. I listen to everything from 70's rock, to rap. So I want to be able to throw in some rap, and crank the bass, but have awesome mids for my rock. I will have a 3g soon, so amps will be easy.
i want to see you fit 8's in the door of a mark7 lol
you said you have two holes in the door where? the mark speakers on the top of the doors aposed to the cougars and tbirds are on the bottom.. and up top theres only about 2 1/2" from the metal panel and the door glass
are the doors and the panels allready hacked up? to have two holes
anyway this is where i buy my speakers from
check it out and see what you can get and for what prices..
http://www.partshagpress.com/
driver listings
http://www.partshagpress.com/speakers.cfm
start surffing..
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 06, 2008, 12:12:37 AM
theres a hole up top were the speaker mount is attached, and a lower hole they are close together I got the panel off ill go snap a pic Its a decent hole at the bottom, could easily be opened up more. I have no idea what to get that would sound good.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Quietleaf on April 06, 2008, 12:12:38 AM
You could do what I did...seek out experts. I went to an autosound shop that's involved in competitions (and wins a lot of them). Actually, I went on the recommendation of a friend, and I was impressed with the people there--they're really meticulous about getting it "right" from the standpoint of sound quality, though with some of the staff changes over the years I don't know if they still have the expertise they used to. Really doing it right can cost quite a bit, but when you're on a budget (as I was at the beginning) that's where talking to experts really helps -- they will know which are the best compromises to make, and/or which choices leave the best upgrade paths. Sometimes sound quality and upgrade path are mutually exclusive if you're on a budget, so bear that in mind.
You want to be careful picking them out, though. For instance, the people I went to were Gen-X'ers like me and listened to similar music. If you go to someone who only listens to rap, expect to get a system tuned just for that :D
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 06, 2008, 12:18:44 AM
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c384/boss3512/0406080014.jpg) Could easy run 2 speakers, deeper speaker up top in the mount. Put a tweeter up in the plate that covers the bolts for the mirror like those out of my moms cobra. I dont know I guess I will have to go to an audio shop. I just dont want them to install, costs to much, and they might mess up my interior.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Quietleaf on April 06, 2008, 12:23:40 AM
I'd say go with midbass in the doors and tweeters in the dash. The combination of the two (especially if you go with titanium tweeters) will fill everything above 150 Hz (depending on the midbass). The midbass MUST have a solid mount to the door or you will lose your bass as the mount will flex. The point of the midbass is NOT to give you real bass -- it is a MIDbass! Real bass sound waves have a wavelength BIGGER THAN YOUR CAR so that's why you only need one sub. If you REALLY want to make sure that you have that 12-150Hz fully filled in you could go with 8's in addition to a larger sub, and just put them all in the trunk, but IMHO that's overkill. A 10" and maybe a 12" would also do the trick, but once again I think that's overkill. Once you get to 10" and up, enclosure design is far more important than sub size, IMHO. The smaller the sub, the larger the enclosure you will need, so I'd say pick something that best matches your musical taste. If you listen to rock AND rap, I'd recommend a 12" as a good compromise without sacrificing all your trunk space.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 06, 2008, 12:31:51 AM
2 12;s or one 15 is how im going. Depends how i can get the boxes to fit. I want to be able to keep it down and have good overall bass, but be able to turn it up and rattle the car apart. Think im gonna run a 6 1/2 in the top and bottom with a tweeter up high and thats it. Not sure about the back yet. I think that will do me good. trunk space hahah, I could re install the factory carpet cover for the abs computer and factory amp, and I would lose about a foot of trunk. I can put a big ass box in tthat space and still fit 2 people in my trunk hahaha
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Quietleaf on April 06, 2008, 12:35:13 AM
Quote from: daboss351;212752
2 12;s or one 15 is how im going. Depends how i can get the boxes to fit. I want to be able to keep it down and have good overall bass, but be able to turn it up and rattle the car apart. Think im gonna run a 6 1/2 in the top and bottom with a tweeter up high and thats it. Not sure about the back yet. I think that will do me good.
I'd STRONGLY recommend against the 15". A friend of mine went that route, and it sounded TERRIBLE. He could play rap to his heart's content, but rock sounded awful as rock has "musical bass" -- it uses a large fraction of the bass frequency range, and the 15" doesn't have the agility to keep up -- all the subtlety was lost, and the result was really muddy. Just awful. He was really knowledgeable about autosound, and he was very disappointed in the result. He was mulling over cutting holes in his rear deck for some 8's forever -- that's how bad the 15" sounded. A pair of 12's has the POTENTIAL to sound much better, if you pick the subs and the enclosures wisely.
Honestly, though, I don't see why two 12's are of ANY more benefit than one. They would have to operate in phase, so at that point it makes more sense to me to just pick a higher-power sub/amp combo. All you're doing with two subs is producing more amplitude, but you can do that with more wattage. It really doesn't take that much wattage to make loud bass, unless you're one of those people who likes to make old farts like me hear your radio from a mile away -- at which point, you'd better wish you don't drive by someone who owns a rifle and scope :evilgrin:
Remember, kiddies, when you enter a residential area (or drive by one), TURN YOUR RADIO DOWN. People there WORK for a living and have to sleep. I can pump out 650 watts which is plenty loud (enough to damage my hearing, since I don't listen to rap), but I turn mine down when appropriate. LOUD music, well, that's what I-95 is made for :D
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 06, 2008, 12:43:01 AM
Thats the advice I need yea I intend to get a NICE ported and chambered box, set up for what I want. No cheapo junk plywood box. Subs will not be skimmped. My brother has a 12in p3 rockford punch, rockford amp, which is a nice sub, but he didnt break it in well, and it blew. But puts out some serious bass, but its a cheap 50 buck bestbuy box. My stepmom s has one 10 rockford p3 in her car, but in a rockford chambered ported box, with a GOOD kenwood deck, and a GOOD kenwood amp, all professionally installed(sub and amps are only thing I will not install.) That thing takes EVERYTHING i threw at it, till it blew the amp fuse, and i was no were near blowing the sub. Gives you one hell of a massage!! But I want more bass, but same control as whats in her car. So actually 2 10's or 12's depending what I get a better deal on is how its going.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 06, 2008, 12:47:24 AM
Quote from: Quietleaf;212743
You could do what I did...seek out experts. I went to an autosound shop that's involved in competitions (and wins a lot of them). Actually, I went on the recommendation of a friend, and I was impressed with the people there--they're really meticulous about getting it "right" from the standpoint of sound quality, though with some of the staff changes over the years I don't know if they still have the expertise they used to. Really doing it right can cost quite a bit, but when you're on a budget (as I was at the beginning) that's where talking to experts really helps -- they will know which are the best compromises to make.
You want to be careful picking them out, though. For instance, the people I went to were Gen-X'ers like me and listened to similar music. If you go to someone who only listens to rap, expect to get a system tuned just for that :D
i work at a few stereo shops back in the day..
beleave it or not if done right you can any system to play all music types and would sound corect for what ever you played
back in the day when i was installing i had a 82 mustang GT.
i had two 8's and four 6 1/2's mtx black gold the only mtx speakers i ever liked and are not made anymore in the tire well in the hatch. mounted on 1 1/2" particle board. ran off an old alphsonik pma2100 100 watts a ch
and one 6 1/2" black gold woofer in each door and 1" silk dome tweeters with one 3 1/2" full range speaker capped to about 800hz up in each of the four A/C ducts ran off an alphasonik pma 4035 4ch 35watts each ch.
one day at the shop i worked at had a sound off.. the best that day was a bronco with 4 15's in a box of course ran of two hifonic zues's which 300 watts a ch two amp's =1200 watts and a bunch of other speakers for mids and highs ran off a 4 ch hifoics gemeni or something.
so after the sound off my boss wanted me to pull my car in to see what it could do.. anytime a big audio system came in the for an in stall i was allways ask it get involved.. so anyway so they set up the spl mike up in my car and my boss ask the winner if we could use the cd and what song he played to win so i played it and came two points of what he got..
the guy was like WTF! that can't be all you got no way! i laughed and my boss said nope thats all he's got in the car..
as a joke we told the guy he could take the car apart to find more speakers and amp's but you won't find any.. and you will have to put the car back together..
oh and heres a link if you would like to see what most amp's are made of from the inside
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Quietleaf on April 06, 2008, 12:58:52 AM
Exactly. It doesn't take nearly as much as some people think to get outstanding sound quality. Sometimes I wonder if the only reason people go with the crazy amount of subs (six subs?!) and crazy wattage is purely for "bling". Instead of comparing d**ks, we're comparing watts and subs. Just stupid. Tuning is far more effective than anything else. My sub box was custom-made, I'm sure you're familiar with how they calculate the optimum box based on sub characteristics. Unfortunately it was way too big to be practical in the long run and I had to go with something smaller eventually. I've never been happy with the bass response since, and I'm mulling a change at some point. The best advice I can offer is that people who really know how to eke out sound quality won't be telling you to "throw speakers at the problem".
Some more questions to ask:
"Do I have the EARS for going the extra mile?" "Will the music I listen to take advantage of this?" Because Rap sure as heck does not, in most cases. "Does my car have the sound isolation to justify this, that, or the other thing?" Remember, our cars aren't Mercedes', and they have crazy wind noise.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 06, 2008, 01:15:01 AM
i went with 12's and pro 12's is they are tight you can barely move the cone in the basket.. if it was a car 12" it would move way to much i really hate large woofers unless they are pro meaning for live sound..if the woofers i used moved more then 3/4'' of an inch it would be ripped out of the basket.. aside of pumping 2000watts threw then thats not going to happen..
like i said the only reason why changed from the four 8's is because about 98% of the dvd's i have in the car is live concerts..and the 8's could'nt handle the way most live concerts are recorded in the way they mike the bass drum and bass guitar..
lol the box with the four 8's is another thing i have to see if anyone wants at cat jam this year
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Carpimp1987 on April 07, 2008, 03:08:53 AM
Sorry was not a smart @$$ question not sure if you remeber my old set-up but i was thinking about getting this Cd player or last years model thats almost the same.
I hope to see you get it all ordered and installed soon and that it sounds good whatever music you listen to on it.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 07, 2008, 05:08:08 PM
it looks like i nice unit.
front and rear pre amp out puts with a sub output.. mp3's for you mp3 buffs that like their music compressed like garbage in a garbage truck:D and sore tooth tech,and at a nice price..
the only thing i don't like about most car stereos made today is they boast about"quote"high volt preamp outs ie 2,3&4 or more volt out put.. what a waste.
most people would say i don't know what i'm talking about..
but!the correct preamp output is .775 volts.per channel thats in pro audio ie live gigs and home audio.. and is the same for car audio all so..
but some would argue that point..
why do i say this?
because! about 25 years ago give or take when car stereos started to getting popular some moe or moe's desided hey if we increase the voltage at the preamp the amp will pump harder and be louder! and put gains on the inputs of the amp's all so..putting gains on car amp's in one way is good why?
because the real reason for the is to match the preamp voltage since car stereo preamp out puts range from say .1-8.0 volts..
most amp gains have a label on it.. one side of the dial will say 100mv and on the other side say 2,4or8volts
so if or deck has 2 volt outputs you set the dial to 2volts which matchs the outputs to inputs.which is lmfao .775 volts to the main inputs
example if you have 2volt outputs and you set the gain to it's highest setting say 8 volts the music will sound low and if you set it to the lowest setting say .100mv the music will be much louder then if you set it to 2 volts but! 1 it may overload the input output stages and may in time fry them. 2 and or fry you driver down the road..
the reason for the fried driver is. direct 12 volts DC will fry a driver
and driver can only handle 4-8 volts max and if you have 4 volt or higher outputs on you deck and you set the gain to 100mv the extra voltage tens to roll over in to the output stage of the amp's..
when people say i fried my speakers and they know way it happed ie sending 12 volts to the speakers. either the amp shiznit the bed or the voltage roll over way to much..
the other reason to match the gains is most times with the preamp's overloaded the amp will clip or worse the speakers will start to distort..
i know i ramble a lot;)
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: daboss351 on April 07, 2008, 05:47:12 PM
Quote from: Quietleaf;212753
Honestly, though, I don't see why two 12's are of ANY more benefit than one. They would have to operate in phase, so at that point it makes more sense to me to just pick a higher-power sub/amp combo. All you're doing with two subs is producing more amplitude, but you can do that with more wattage. It really doesn't take that much wattage to make loud bass, unless you're one of those people who likes to make old farts like me hear your radio from a mile away -- at which point, you'd better wish you don't drive by someone who owns a rifle and scope :evilgrin:
Remember, kiddies, when you enter a residential area (or drive by one), TURN YOUR RADIO DOWN. People there WORK for a living and have to sleep. I can pump out 650 watts which is plenty loud (enough to damage my hearing, since I don't listen to rap), but I turn mine down when appropriate. LOUD music, well, that's what I-95 is made for :D
Missed that I turn it down a bit on small streets, and after 9, other then that it will only be loud to piss off the ricer/ wiggers. Other then that, the CAR is loud enough to piss off you old farts never mind the stereo, hee hee...
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Masejoer on April 08, 2008, 09:19:40 PM
Quote from: Blown306Cougar;212968
*snip*
I got lost after the first couple sentences...none of how I read it (perhaps not how you meant to write it) made any sense. Voltage output won't make much of a difference as it is only at the peak volume levels that you will see the stated voltage. Anything less, you'll be getting much less than .1v out of the preamp lines at any one time (the amp only multiplies this voltage). This is all in AC, nowhere are we dealing with DC power out to an amp or speakers. 2v vs 8v preamp outputs won't make much of a difference other than the last few volume "points" in the head unit's menu being a little more clear.
The gain settings on amps are only there to match the amp up with the output of the head unit. You never just "match up the numbers". Typically the volume level is set to limit that the user would like to be the "normal" maximum volume (with room to spare for quieter tracks) and set the gain so that the output is the desired voltage to give the wattage that the amp is capable of without clipping. Ideally you'd want speakers, resisters, whatever hooked up when doing this but it is not necessary. NEVER set the gains blindly and ideally you want to use an oscilloscope to detect when the amp begins to clip. Of course, this topic in itself of gain settings gets a lot more detailed and people set their gains different ways. GAIN IS NOT A VOLUME for those that like to think so.
I'm sure I missed somewhere in this thread about someone putting DC into a speaker - that won't work any way you look at it. Plugging a 4ohm nominal speaker into a wall socket will give you roughly 3000w to it.
Car audio will always suck compared to a properly setup room so try out equipment, do a GOOD install in your car (install matters much more than speakers or amps in terms of both sound quality and output), and just enjoy it. Never will you get perfect frequency response when driving down the road. Car off, it is possible with enough time to try out different configurations, possibly different drivers, and EQ/TA/tweak the system.
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 15, 2008, 07:40:06 PM
i hav'nt posted on this in about a week.. anyway
seek.. i know the outputs to the drivers are AC.. the amp converts AC to DC.. in short what i was trying to say was when you overload the inputs/outputs the outputs start sending DC to the speakers..even though the outputs send AC to the speakers the transistors are powered by DC and switch on and off about every nano second..just like an injector going static if it stays on to long it will turn your amp heat sink into a hot plate that you can fry eggs on.. and or fry the transistors first.. if the amp does'nt shut down first or fry the transistors first the transistors will start sending DC to the speaker or speakers and fry the voice coil of the drivers .oh and where did i say "snip?" you quoted me saying snip.. huh lol
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 15, 2008, 07:43:44 PM
and for those who wanted to see how i got all the speakers in the doors..
and like i said it all looks factory in the front and rear with the panels and grills on..
Nick
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 15, 2008, 07:45:59 PM
more
Title: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..
Post by: Blown306Cougar on April 15, 2008, 07:47:37 PM