Ok Guys. I got the motor pulled, and this is what I found.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/100_0587.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/100_0586.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/100_0589.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/100_0588.jpg)
And the outside looking in at the strut tower:
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/100_0593.jpg)
I was kinda thinking about getting some 2"x3" 14ga steel and just replace the whole frame rail. It doesn't look to hard, but the thing is, I don't have access to a welder. I might just have to go and get a cheaper one:evilgrin:
The rear of the car, is fine, just some light surface rust, which I am planning to use Rust Bullet on.
Just want some opinions, and what to do.
I could always just leave it the way it is, and start looking for a rust free donor.
P.S. I'm just planning on putting a lower mileage 86' Motor & AOD in place.
looks fuct to me!
Yup, that's structural. Get in there with a wire wheel and get it all clean so you can see just how bad it is. You could always "clip" the car, but it would be much easier/cheaper to find a rust-free car and go from there.
You can fix that no problem. But, yeah, you will need a welder, and some time and patience. I guarantee that inside your frame is alot more rust, more than likely it will all have to be replaced. Here are some pics of mine, it was the same way dude. When I cut open the frame, it was a wall of rust. Pretty bad. Don't be discouraged though, it can be fixed. That rust bullet stuff really sprays on nice too. I used it after I was done fixing my car too. Good luck!
Brian
Here is a finished pic......After I replaced the metal, I sprayed Rust Bullet on the whole front end, then primered, then the painted. Looks pretty good now.
Brian
Yea, I took a wire wheel to it, and the places right under the shock towers are gone on the interior of the pass. side, and I've not been able to get the the DS since the brake MC is in the way. I'm just thinking about getting tubular steel, and just cutting the whole rail out, and replacing it.
How hard is that going to be?
If nothing else, I'll just drop the motor in, and just drive it AS-IS, till I can find another Cat or Bird to play with.
Depends on if you have the right tools. I doubt it would be that hard but I was trying to get mine done in time for the summer. I used 14 and 16 ga steel. No prob.
Brian
Yea, I want to use 14 ga steel. But, I need to get it done within a couple of weeks.
Then I wouldn't do the tubular. That job that you see in the pics took a couple of days at most. It took longer to sand it and paint it after. Even if you used that Rust Bullet, you should still clean the majority of the rust off, if you don't I wouldn't expect any miracles. Post some pics up when you get that fixed!
Also keep in mind that I had the "k" member off too. It made it much easier.
brian
Yea, I just used a wire wheel on most of it already. Hopefully I can get a welder. How many amps do you need for 14 ga?
You would have to adjust as you go along, but my welder is only a 125a cheapo that I got online somewhere. Sears I think, I only got it because it can be converted to use gas and it is 110v. I don't have 220 in my little 2 car garage so it worked perfectly.
Just watch when you weld that 14ga to the thinner 16ga stuff. It will burn through real easy specially if the area was rusty and is now thinner than it is supposed to be.
Sounds good. I'm thinking about just getting a el cheapo 115amp. But, thanks for the information.
That's the first place I check when buying a fox.
No problem. Need anything else, just ask.
Brian
Yea, but when it's your first car, and only $150, who cares? It just happens that I fell in love? with this car.
I had a crack in the sheet metal in that area. When I started cleaning it up, it surely was rusted on the inside bottom as water gets trapped in there. I cut out as much as possible and welded in a nice preformed "U" shape that I got one of the vendors I use at work to bend up for me. I think it is stronger than it was originally now.
Speaking of frame rust...
I found a (little?) problem area when i was cleaning out the junk underneath the battery tray.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/Rail_Rust_01.jpg)
Seeing as this is the only area in the engine compartment that looks like this, With the paint gone and surface rusting.. I'm gonna assume there was battery spillage? The car did have a minor front end collision at one point in its life (The grille was busted up up and the header panel was broken in the middle).
This area is worrying me, Should i be concerned about this at all?
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/rail_rust_02.jpg)
There was already the squared opening at the upper part (Water Drainage Opening?) But the other end has a bit of rust eating through.
This is what it looks like after wire brushing and metal filing until i hit solid metal at the edges:
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/Aesthetikz/Rail_Rust_03.jpg)
The inner rusting appears to be surface... But i'm still worried.
That frame rust is the same thing that did in my parts TC.
A word of advice, sduneman - do as atariman did and remove the K-member before trying to repair that. If the sides of that framerail are rusted through you can bet your ass the bottom, where all of the rust flakes and water would settle, and where the K-member is attached, is rusted out as well.
Romeo2K - that looks pretty minor. There's supposed to be a hole there, a square one that isn't quite as big :hick: I don't even know if I'd bother fixing that - put some rust neutralizer on it, prime it, a shot of paint (any color paint, since it's hidden, but paint is necessary as primer is not a rust barrier), and call it a day.
Yea, I was planning on removing the K member. I was also debating on going tubular, but that's a bit out of my price range At the moment.
Found the same thing on my first bird (or car for that matter), but totally ruined the relationship we had going on.
Finding rust like that is comparable to walking in on your girl and another guy.
True that, it hurts alot.
That's not as bad as one I had was. Note to self, never buy a car from Chicago.
Wow! The K member is even pushing up through!
My 88 TC has a spot about like the one at the top of the page.. But about half as big. The other side is as clean as can be.
wow
HOLY !!! That's bad.
For an update, today I picked up some 14ga 2"x3" Tubular Steel, and some 3M weld thru primer. Holefully this week, I can get the frame rail cut out, and get it finished next week sometime.
you guys should come down here in south alabama to buy birds and cats...i only paid $40 dollars for mine cause it didn't run. come on i was putting a 306 in it what do i care if it runs....by the way all you guys go check out my car photos on user rides . the cars down here only have surface rust, cause it never snows down here...:shakeass:
Thats pretty common on the newer unibodies. I seen a 79 mercury capri rusted so badly the sway bars busted off. We had to put a whole front end on it.
Shush. Let the secret remain. ;)
Man, I wish I could go and get one down south, but that's a bit to far for me to go... I can barely afford gas right now, much less a road trip.
I live in Chicago. That pic shows all of you why I bought my Bird from California:D
one word TEXAS!
Well, tomorrow I'll post pictures on how far I've gotten on the car... I'm almost ready to remove the K member, and then start measuring & cutting!
hey dont forget Kansas and Oklahoma!! :hick:
That doesn't look so bad to me
http://www.daminc.myjalbum.net/ (http://"http://www.daminc.myjalbum.net/")
Dam daminc, your car she be s!!!!
Dealt with this before on my last bird(which i eventually sped,looked like daminc's car)had the front frame rails replaced by a body shop,cost me 800.00 bucks.
Also make sure you reinstall crush sleeves inside the rails, or when you tighten up the k member you will ruin the newly replaced frame sections.
Well, here's my update, I don't know how much longer I'm gonna work on it becasue It's getting kinda cold out, but really need to get it done before it snows, to make the neighbors happy.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc020.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc021.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc017.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc018.jpg)
That's what the frame section look like after I took it out!
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc019.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc022.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc023.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc024.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/Misc025.jpg)
Anyways, started to weld some sheet metal to match in with the rest, but the welder i'm using is shyte. My welds keep cracking, and there isn't really in difference when I change my amps. So... I'm looking for a different welder.
WOW this is nuts. Too bad the neighbors can't appreciate your efforts. I can't believe you're REPLACING the frame. Lookin' great so far!
hey take a ride down here to south alabama, the cats and birds aren't in that bad of shape. just some surface rust.....wow talking about bringing a car back from the dead...... good luck man,
You sir have FAR more guts then I.
I wish I could offer some input but you're way beyond my bodywork scope here. I must say though that for doing the repairs yourself it's looking pretty good!
wow.....all I can say is,you have got modivation..... thumbs up
thats cool, but I hope you never hit anybody head on, your framerails will spear you and the passenger. what size is that? they are designed to crush under a frontal impact and take the brunt of the force. those tubes wont budge one bit.
good work though.
Good luck.
Bahh real cars keep their shape. :flip: It'll be like him hitting a new car with a 50 year old car. He'll bulldoze the other one, IT will crumple, and WOULDJA LOOKIT THAT! Frame aint even bent! Hah! :giggle:
You guys ever wrecked one of these with stock framerails?
Our cars are fairly stout factory, I really doubt he's getting any stonger than that, as is.
Besides....without seatbelts, let alone airbags, that whole point is shiznit.
:bowdown: WOW!!!
Nice job so far. I can't believe your doing all that outside in winter.
thats even more impressive
There's nothing like knowing that you fixed something yourself.
You should get one of those portable garages, a small heater, couple lights. maybe the neighbors would ease up and you could stay warm
I think if you got in an crash head on with that rail. a new car would crumple. but an suv or van would end up on top of your hood anyway. new rail or not
anyway, glad to see i'm not the only one trying to fix their baby
keep up the good work. we'll have to swap notes one day
Thanks everyone! I just need to come up with some money, and was thinking about getting one of those tarp type tents to put over it. It's still not that cold out, highs in the mid-50's and lows in the mid 20's. I'll keep working on it till it's to cold to go outside or snowing!
As far as the frame rail, I'm no to worried about it. It's a 2x3 14 gauge steel tubing. It's almost the exact same size as the original. The other side is the one that got a little bit bent while going in the ditch, I'll get a pic of it later, but from being pushed back ~1", it's not in that bad of shape.
Thank's that means a lot to me. It's not all that hard, I mean, just jump into it, and you will find yourself doing it. I'm only 19, and worked at a backyard mechanic's shop for about 7 months, doing maintenance things on cars, but nothing like this before.
So, there's a first for everything!
I just hope that my welds hold up:evilgrin: I'm having a bad problem of them cracking while they are cooling down, so it's been a nightmare trying to get a good one. Today was the first time that I actually got some decent welds in. Doesn't help that I'm using my grandfather's who-knows-how-old welder.
Thank's that means a lot to me. It's not all that hard, I mean, just jump into it, and you will find yourself doing it. I'm only 19, and worked at a backyard mechanic's shop for about 7 months, doing maintenance things on cars, but nothing like this before.
So, there's a first for everything!
What kind of welder are you using? A MIG welder would work pretty well for what you are trying to do. Just tack it in a few spots, so that you don't put to much heat into the sheet metal and warp it. Then go back and finish welding it up, I believe the factory used spot welds every 1 inch or so. Make sure the metal you are trying to weld is clean and rust free.
What engine are you going to put in there now that you have your's removed?
Looking good :D
You made sure everything was square before welding right ;) ?
I'm using an old stick welder. And my metal is clean, and rust free.
Yea, it's square :hick:
looks like it will be a solid repair once you get it all welded in
It would be great if you could hook up with a MIG welder somehow. It has to be pretty tough trying to stick weld sheet metal.
yeah, that'd be a PITA. can you say oxy acetylene and the Henrob 2000? Nice work, though.
Yea
Actually I'm doing pretty good with the sheet metal, it's the dam rectangular tubing. My welds aren't penetrating very good.
I would go rent a MIG welder. It will make your life much easier. Plus you want to make sure you get good weld penetration into the tubing or you're just wasting your time.
You can always use a torch and pre-heat the area on the tubing that you're going to be welding...works like a champ...just make sure you keep the heat out of the sheet metal.
I thought of that, but don't have a torch. I don't really have any money to rent one.
On another note, my mom's bf has a mig, just have to see if I can borrow it?
Here are some more pics of my suck-tacular welding job.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/CougarWeld002.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/CougarWeld004.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/CougarWeld005.jpg)
And here she sits, as it's <40* outside, and winds at about 20mph
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m116/sduneman3/Cougar/CougarWeld007.jpg)
Dude, those welds look REEEEAAAL weak...you definitely need to buy, rent, borrow, or steal a little MIG...it'll make the job SOOOOOO much easier...when you finally get one, lay a few good hot tack welds every few inches, then grind out all that nasty bird- weld left from stick welding.
Good luck man!
-Don
werd!
get at least a 130amp welder. those are some really cold welds.
ok, i'll have to turn it up then.
FYI I'm using 1/8" 1611 @ ~90amps
Nasty looking welds dude. grind it out. that wont hold shiznit, and will break after a few bumps...... This IS NOT a project you should be tackling if you dont have a clue how to weld.....
Get your mom's BF's welder. Those welds don't look like they'll hold the weight of the car let alone taking any bumps. I don't mean to be so negative, but that's your life you're welding there.
But I will say that you have some really big balls for tackeling that job without previous experience or the right tools.
Yeah, I'll have to ask him this weekend if I can borrow it.
The ones in the front are good and strong (even though they look shiznitty), it's the welds in the back near the firewall that aren't very good.
That's fine for the criticism. At least everyone's trying to help me, supportive, and is giving me some good advice on what to do.
Since I'll more than likely be borrowing a MIG, and I've never personally used one, any tips for getting good welds?
I sent you a rather long PM. Hope it helps.
Yep, just replied. Thanks, that should help me for welding thick to thin.
Anyone else with any tips, go ahead a send them to me!
This probably won't be as complete as the PM you just got, but I'll offer a brief suggestion - After grinding most of the existing welds down, do a few tacks, then look on the back side to ensure you're getting good penetration. You probably can't see behind all of it, so start in areas where you can see the backside. Read those welds and adjust your heat accordingly. Once you start using a MIG, you'll never touch your stick welder again. Have fun!
How true, how true :D But then again once you've used a TIG setup, you don't want to use MIG much either. :hick:
practice getting good penetration on separate pecies, but be careful not to go to hot as to blow through. I like pulling the welder when I weld(weld towards yourself) and slow circular motions. I may not be the greatest welder, but a novice thats my best advice. O and for good welds, flux core is NOT what you want, go to a gas mig.
Don't worry about pretty. that comes with practice. and helps to have a gas mig. do what FLSTCI71 said. Its the real easy way to check the weld depth. I'd check it on some s materials of what your using also. easy to check the weld when you can see an end view too. If your still not satisfied. whack it with a BFH. see if it breaks
Yes, practice on some s pieces first. Look up welding on the web and see what a good weld and a bad weld looks like, yours is too cold with no penitration...BTW, you will have to grind all the old welds down and do it over right. Your fab skills are there, but you need the right tooling, but you already know that. Keep up the good work and don't give up.
Wow that's what my welds look like if I'm using my mig on a 100' extension cord. No penetration.
Are you using old welding rods or something?
BTW, I just gotta say it...now that you got the box tubing front end, is a straight axle with leaf springs next? :hick: gasser style!
I'm using a 50' cord, could probably use a 30, but don't want to cut it down.
I'm using new welding rods.
Nope, everything is going back in the way I took it out.
Oh, and for those of you wondering, I'm putting an 86' t-bird V6 & AOD in.
I guarantee that 50' cord is your problem.
Mine does not work very well unless it is on the very shortest cord possible...I think like 5 feet max.
Here's a good site on decoding welding rod numbers.
http://www.jeep-l.net/info_jeep/weld_rod.htm (http://"http://www.jeep-l.net/info_jeep/weld_rod.htm")
Mine runs great on a 100 ft cord, :dunno: of course mine is a lincoln handy pak though.:shakeass:
I have a Miller 175 and it works great on my 50' extension. It also depends on how big/gauge the extension is. The longer you go, the Bigger wire needed so there isn't as much of a voltage drop. It'll still happen but not as much. Just my .02 :D
I bet thats stronger than the factory setup.
I have a cheesey little craftsman MIG and it works fine on a 100' cord...you just need to make adjustments to your heat/feed rate. Flux core wire is much more difficult to mig with than using an argon/co2 mix for shielding purposes.
Good luck and keep the updates coming!
-Don
(http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=60673703&albumID=0&imageID=16972822)
This is what happens when front frame rails are stick welded in.
Whatever happened with this project?
anyone know?
i often wondered,, was this your inspiration?
No it wasn't. It's really hard to explain the projects that inspire me.
I've replaced so many panels and painted so many cars in the last 20 years, that the next project, I try to out do the quality of the last.
I had a lot of practice bending up replacement panels for my father-in-law in the last 15 years.
I guess the old classic car restorations are what inspire me the most.
As I was looking at the frame rails on my car, this thread came to mind.