what would be the consiquences of puting r134 in a standard ac system??
would it work or frick it up??
thanks, Joe
Off the record I heard of guys doing it and getting away w/it but don’t recommend it. It will work but not as good as real R-12 or a good conversion R-134 set-up the thing is 134 needs a bigger condenser then the R12. So buy using the 134 in a R12 condenser won’t be as cold.
What I do recommend is finding this aftermarket stuff call freeze12 it’s a mixture of Freon’s for an R12 setup it goes for about 15 bucks a can but remember this also contaminates your system read the instructions. After this gets you buy for a while I recommend a full 134 conversion.
It isn't that the R134a needs a bigger condenser it needs one with more fins per inch/mm. I put the R134a in my R12 system. I did flush everything out with the A/c flush first. Then I installed new O-ring seals. Had it pressure tested then put in the R134a. Been working great for 3+ years now. I can tell that it doesn't work as well as my R134a system in my 94 cougar at least when going slow or sitting still. I've been told that if you put a 94up stang R134a condenser and a auto adjusting orifice tube that it will be just like a R134a system. Also many people that convert form R12 to R134a and want a cheap simple setup use a large electric fan in front of the condenser so when they are in traffic it still keeps them cool.
Maybe if we were all lucky we could get a member down in Mexico to ship us some R12 on the cheap. It is still made down there and you can buy it at most parts store there.
interesting.
Can you be more specific?
Are you asking what would happen if you slap R-134a in your system, how to properly retrofit your car, or how a properly retrofitted car will perform when compared to R-12?
as a standard rule of thumb never mix different refridgerants. damage may result and parts can get expensive
My 88 cougar was just autozone converted.. fittings and charged up with R134a.. Worked great.. The A/C was very cold. I would say just charge it up without doing any expensive retrofits.. just get all of the old R12 out, it and R134a together turn into an acid that will eat the lines and seize the compressor.
Quick and dirty answer, yes it will work... How well... Who knows???
That said, the R134 refrigerant is not compatible with the original mineral oil used in the R12 system, it becomes acidic eventually corroding and destroying the system internally...
There's quite a bit of work involved to convert one correctly...
Cold, reliable A/C is worth a little bit of work.
I've got half a mind to convert one of my cars to an expansion valve setup. Just for sheets and giggles.
Wait a minute...so...I could buy a cheap electric fan and stick it in front of the Condenser...and I wouldn't have to worry about the Air not being so cold when at a dead stop or in slow traffic? Has anyone here done this???
I feel some jerry-rigging coming on....
one of the lines on my a/c compressor was disconnected. what are the chances that all of the r12 is out of ther? it's been off for at LEAST a month.
Won't make much of a difference.
100% chance all of the R-12 is out. 100% chance you still have a lot of mineral oil still in the system. You need to purge oil left in the system.
Replace the evaporator now, disconnected that long it’s dirty and contaminated it will never run right unless you fix it properly.
Long story short listening to what you have now you might want to consider a proper retrofit kit. And yes the oils on R12 and R134 are different so you would want to evacuate the whole system before converting though I have heard of guys dumping it right on top and getting away w it, I highly don’t recommend that it won’t work for very long and any good.
If you go to a shop they can hook up a vacuum to your system removing all the old Freon and oils and w/the vacuum still hooked up they can tell for leaks.
The evaporator is fine. However, the accumulator will need to be replaced
The mineral oil will need to be flushed out with solvents. Hooking up a vacuum pump in this situation will remove almost no oil.
No argument from me... After the compressor burned up(literally) I converted the wifes '93 Grand Marquis... Everything was replaced except for the evaporator and condenser... Found the '94s with R134 used the same ones, so I saw no reason to swap out good parts, just flushed the Hell out of them...
My '93 Lightning and '88 Bird still circulate R12...
i've got a local shop quote of $300 for a full retrofit. is that a good price?
if that price includes freon thats a fair price for it from a mechanics shop. completly flushing the system can be a royal pain sometimes. the shop will have at least 2 hours labor in it.
:flame: Ok let the flames begin.
I wouldn't worry too much about the "refrigerant" contamination hype. It's way over rated. If you really want to, you could drain as much of the mineral oil out of the compressor and accumulator and fill it with ester oil around 6-8oz., which I believe is compatible with both refrigerants. Vacuum it down and charge with the r134 fitting on the low side and the compresor running. Try not to charge with too much liquid by dumping in alot at one time. Regulate the suction side 50-60psi charging with the ac on max, the compressor should live during the charge. 134 does work at slightly higher pressures than 12, but nothing to make any big modifications for. Do it yourself and save big ;)
Or you could just remove it.
*Runs and hides*.
evaporator and accumulator don’t ask me why but I always screw them up though I do know which is which
It isn't that hard to remember. The evaporator is in the dash with the heater core. The accumulator is under the hood it is that metal can over by the heater core water lines. The condenser is the part that is in front of the radiator. The only parts left are the lines and the compressor. Oh yeah the orifice tube is inside one of the lines. To replace it you would have to buy a new line or cut the metal section and take the old one out and put the new one in there and put it back together. They make kits to replace the orifice tube you can get them at the parts store.
Call the accumulator the drier then. Even though it is on the suction side, it still contains a desicant bag.
Condensor = when the heat from the coil is gotten rid of in front of the radiator, the refrigerant condenses.
Evaporator= when the heat is taken in to coil inside the vehicle, the refrigerant vaporizes.
Man I guess I’m getting schooled.
No not schooled just some info that's all. :D That being said.....
When using r12, it is extremely critical to evacuate the system( vacuum the system), what this does is to lower the pressure so most all of the moisture is vaporized(boiled) out of the system. Any residual moisture should be easily absorbed by the desicant in the accumulator/reciever-drier(as long as it's not totally saturated). See when water(moisture) absorbs/interacts with r12 it causes a chemical reaction resulting in low level hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid(battery acid) are some of the most corrosive substances known to man. Having hcl acid in your ac system can cause problems and any concentration should be avoided when possible.
Also, when the chemical used in r12 was burned it caused phosgene "mustard gas" which was used as a poisonous gas in WWI. Might make you wonder why anyone would want to use r12 instead of r134a.
Nonetheless, imho r12 is a better cooling refrigerant.
Unfortunately, I don't much of any side effects of 134. Guess you could say I'm "old schooled" :hick:
Mike