Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 03:32:02 PM

Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 03:32:02 PM
I had a thread before about what this carb was but it didn't get very far. Before I go off into thought land, can anyone tell me exactly what this is? All I know is the part number on it ( D6AE-AE) and that it came off a 460.
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/Parts/000_2106.jpg)
 
It apeares to be in good condition, and ran the motor when it was pulled. I was thinking since I need to rebuild the holley anyways ( fuel bowls leak at the metering block...) that maybe this would be a better choice. Not my first pick in ford carbs ( I want a Holley 4010) but just exploring my options. Or if anyone wants this carb, let me know
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 32VFoxBird on August 19, 2007, 03:35:39 PM
FWIW, fuel bowl gaskets are like $2 at parts stores.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 03:37:36 PM
I am aware of this. Let me give alittle more info of what I'm asking:
 
Is this old motorcraft a better choice of a carb for the Fila then the Holley I have on it? I don't even know what this carb is. It "looks" like a Q-jet almost. If this is the better choice, I have a spread to square bore adapter I can use and throw this on the car in 20 min's.

 
What I have now is a 0-1850 Holley 600 Manual Choke, Vac secondary. To my knowlage NO mods but I haven't had it apart to know if the jets have been changed or not. I bought it, bolted it on and adjusted it to the car.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 19, 2007, 06:52:48 PM
not worth using. IMHO
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 07:40:29 PM
Is it worth anything at all to anyone before I just toss it?
 
And Russ, why would you not use it. I'm not killing what you were saying just curious to your reasoning. It's clear that you know more about carbs then I do.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 19, 2007, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;170377
Is it worth anything at all to anyone before I just toss it?
 
And Russ, why would you not use it. I'm not killing what you were saying just curious to your reasoning. It's clear that you know more about carbs then I do.


1. it is calbrated for a 460 cu in motor it will be fat on a 302

2. there pr0ne to the secondary shaft to freeze up and not function

3. It has obviously been sitting requiring a full rebuild.

4 you will not be happy with how it will preform. or lack of.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 08:27:44 PM
I wasn't thinking of the rebuild. Looks like the holley gets rebuilt
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: atariman on August 19, 2007, 08:27:44 PM
It is junk. Throw it away. Buy a rebuild kit for yours for 20 bucks. Adjust and tune. Drive car. Or, let it sit. I wouldn't pay shipping for that piece of shiznit.
:birdsmily:
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 08:29:00 PM
What I'm looking for is the motorcraft equivlent of teh Holley 4010. I can't remember the name right this seconed but A few older ford guys I know told me it was the most " care free" carb once it's dialed in. Any imput on that
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: atariman on August 19, 2007, 08:50:06 PM
What is it that yours is doing to make you want to change it? I have a Holley 600 double pump, model 1851 and it gives me no issues. I can change the jets and retune it in less than 10 minutes if I ain't in a hurry. Wouldn't change it.
:birdsmily:
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 09:44:58 PM
Mine is a 600 Vac secondary. It leaks from all the fuel bowls, I have no idea to what the mods/tuning was done before I had it, and I'm not sure if it's getting rebuilt or if I'm going to save up for a better carb. For the setup as it is now, the carb is just about right. after new heads, better intake I'm not so sure. I'm just exploring options. I might just rebuild the 600 edelbrock I got and stick it back on
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: CougarSE on August 19, 2007, 09:59:47 PM
flip that carb over.. its designed like a quadrajet.. Small primary's large secondary's..  would require an adapter that cost more than a Holley rebuild kit.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 10:02:02 PM
I have the adapter. A Moroso one I belive. And it's huge. Say quarter size primary's and HUGE ass secondarys. I might just keep it as a conversation peice if no one wants it. I got it out of curisoity
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: daboss351 on August 19, 2007, 10:02:42 PM
just wait for the 650 im sending you and throw a pressure reg on it call it DONE
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 10:04:05 PM
Thats going to be a bit over kill. Thats being build up for later, after H.C.I is done.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 19, 2007, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;170395
What I'm looking for is the motorcraft equivlent of teh Holley 4010. I can't remember the name right this seconed but A few older ford guys I know told me it was the most " care free" carb once it's dialed in. Any imput on that

You mean the 4100 Autolite/Motorcraft, no such thing as a 4010(Ford) that I know of...

What you have is a 4300... Those make good doorstops...

As far as rich on a 5.0... No way... A small engine won't suck hard enough to pull the fuel through the boosters... If anything it would be lean...
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 10:10:22 PM
Motorcraft/Autolight 4100(http://fabraham.club.fr/images/big/restauration20040101.jpg)
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 19, 2007, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;170444
Motorcraft/Autolight 4100

Yup... I have one for a '65 289 Stang... A desireable  piece these days... One of these day's I'll ebay it...
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 10:12:17 PM
Ok... Now I want this.... any + or - imput on this one? I talked to 2 random guy sat the dragstrip this weekend that had these on their older mustangs and the sang about them
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: daboss351 on August 19, 2007, 10:20:49 PM
it wont be over kill im running a 750 on my 351 and the cam sure as hell doesnt need it, but it sucks all the gas anyway!
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 19, 2007, 10:21:39 PM
Nuttin' too 'em...

The later ones('65-up) use a odd size jet, physically much larger than the Holley stuff... The earlier ones had Holley size jets but I understand the thread is different... Years ago when they were common, I just robbed the front jets from the 2bbl 2100 versions for the secondarys...

They come in at least two sizes but look identical(on the outside)...

The small one is 470CFM(small block) and the larger is 595CFM(big blocks)... The '69 351 used that POS 4300...
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 19, 2007, 10:29:38 PM
What pattern is it? And are you talking bolt pattern to the intake?
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 19, 2007, 10:31:32 PM
All 4100s used the Holley pattern... As do the earlier 4300s
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: Prototype Services on August 20, 2007, 12:58:13 AM
Stick with the Holley. But buy a good rebuild kit and not a JiffyKit or some other POS. I'm too low on parts now to put together a kit for you, but I buy all my bulk Holley parts from Quickfuel.
Dave
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 20, 2007, 05:40:19 PM
I more then likely will go with the 650 DP for a while and see how it feels
 
Here are a few more of that old  4300D
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/Fila/000_2110.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/Fila/000_2109.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/Fila/000_2107.jpg)
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 20, 2007, 07:46:42 PM
Here are a few more of that old 4300D
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/Fila/000_2110.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/Fila/000_2109.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/Fila/000_2107.jpg)
 
 
I got bored and started building a 4180 Holley I had laying around today. I'm down to finding the fuel bowl screws and the meetering block and I have it all together. New rebuild kit and all new gaskets on it.  A question : can I use regular 4160 meetering block on this or does it have to be a 4180? The little added bonus of it being off a 84-5 mustang addeds to the fact that minus the cam.... the motor is 84-5 HO stang spec. If you have any 4180 parts let me know, I'm lookin
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: Prototype Services on August 21, 2007, 03:45:02 AM
You will need a metering block from exactly that part number carb. Metering blocks are like the camshaft or computer of an engine, in that each is specifically calibrated for that carb, engine and application. Now, there is a lot of basic calibrations and even overlap of the same block being used on different carbs, but the chances are good a different block won't run right.
What is wrong with the old metering block?
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 21, 2007, 04:03:53 AM
Uh.... I don't have it. Don't ask.
 
I ended up Mocking together another 600 I had from parts. Another 600 vac secondary, 50 CC accelerator pump on duel inlet fuel bowls with 1 accelerator pump, no choke, purple accelerator pump cam. May or may not work, as it's only mocked together right now. All I can say for sure is everything physically fits. I'm getting 2 renew kits soon ( one for whats on the car and one for this carb) and we'll see where it goes
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 21, 2007, 08:50:27 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;170840
Uh.... I don't have it. Don't ask.
 
I ended up Mocking together another 600 I had from parts. Another 600 vac secondary, 50 CC accelerator pumps, duel inlet fuel bowls with 1 accelerator pump, no choke, purple accelerator pump cam. May or may not work, as it's only mocked together right now. All I can say for sure is everything physically fits. I'm getting 2 renew kits soon ( one for whats on the car and one for this carb) and we'll see where it goes



50cc pumps are to large for your setup.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 21, 2007, 09:23:57 PM
Swapped back to the 30 cc pump. Just waiting for a rebuild kit to come to the local parts store and I should have this on the car
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: jcassity on August 22, 2007, 09:57:14 PM
wow,, stretching your legs out for carbs i see.  No EFI engine has the fuel response a carb has.,, like zero delay.  Thats my opinon.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 22, 2007, 10:24:38 PM
C'mon scott... you know I'm a carb guy. Hopefuly tomorow I can get the kit and paint the carb
 
 
(http://www.proformparts.com/mistore/ART/products/100719/67200_more2.jpg)
Only with the purple red anodized look. I'm not apurple person. The main body and fuel bowls will be allumnium
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 22, 2007, 11:09:06 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;171278
C'mon scott... you know I'm a carb guy. Hopefuly tomorow I can get the kit and paint the carb
 
 
(http://www.proformparts.com/mistore/ART/products/100719/67200_more2.jpg)
Only with the purple red anodized look. I'm not apurple person. The main body and fuel bowls will be allumnium


just some FYI  paint&gas dont mix well unless you use an epoxy paint
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 22, 2007, 11:11:14 PM
In a Holley building/tuning book I have, it said to use a good krylon paint backed up with LOTS of clear.  Everything that will have contact with gas has been masked off.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 22, 2007, 11:30:45 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;171307
In a Holley building/tuning book I have, it said to use a good krylon paint backed up with LOTS of clear.  Everything that will have contact with gas has been masked off.



good luck
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 22, 2007, 11:46:29 PM
Not sure if your serious or being sarcastic, but thanks. It's just an experiment over anything but if it works... great
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 23, 2007, 09:23:43 AM
I was told a 600 DP was " too much for a 302". I got a 650 DP on the way eventualy so we'll just have to wait and see
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: jcassity on August 23, 2007, 08:57:24 PM
hes being serious and sarcastic and im on his side.  You just wont be happy with the outcome.  I guess your right in a way, if you dont like the colors, it comes off easy enough till you figure out what color you do want to maker perm.

One can of good stuff beats the price of a can of color then another of clear.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: Prototype Services on August 25, 2007, 12:55:56 AM
Auto paint will work though, if you use a self-etching primer. Carb parts are zinc, except the aluminum baseblate. Make sure to plug any bleed holes carefully with toothpics before spraying. I've had best luck with a base-coat/clearcoat system.
Cured auto paint isn't bothered by most fuel.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on August 25, 2007, 01:13:45 AM
Thats what I'm going for. I've had a few other things in life so this has been put off, but I'm hoping to have it together soon. Again, for anyone that didn't see, this is NOT the carb that is on the car. This is a junk carb I threw together that I wana try. If the paint turns out good I have another working carb I wana try.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on September 08, 2007, 11:36:09 AM
I painted a junk holley today ( broken booster, meetering block is dirty as hell, fuel bowls are really dirty...) and painted it for the hell of it. This is what I got. Don't flame, it's only a mock up
 
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00082.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00083.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00084.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00085.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00086.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00088.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00092.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00093.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00094.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00095.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00096.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/DSC00097.jpg)
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: cougar1car on September 08, 2007, 03:20:41 PM
I think next time you need more powder
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z14/cougar1car/images.jpg)

Those are some py pics (paint job looks good though(I think))
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: Prototype Services on September 08, 2007, 03:40:30 PM
I can replace that booster.
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on September 08, 2007, 03:59:14 PM
Quote from: cougar1car;175156
I think next time you need more powder
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z14/cougar1car/images.jpg)
 
Those are some py pics (paint job looks good though(I think))

It's a cellphone pic, as I lost the wire for my camara.
 
As for the booster, I don't think it's worth it as I have 2 carbs that I will actually use on the car. The 600 vac secondary thats on it now and then the 650 DP that will go on later. Just testing how it would look
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: cougar1car on September 08, 2007, 04:11:34 PM
Im kidding I dont bothet taking pics with my phone never works takes pics and makes them look like hell...
Title: Carb guys... look inside
Post by: 84 Fila on September 08, 2007, 04:24:15 PM
I'm not going to lie... it looks like ass. The "silver" color was susposed to be satin allumnium. The black is flat and I wanted it semi-gloss. But for the scheme it's not that bad. The masking of the surfaces worked great and I just did a coat of primer, 2 coats of paint, and no clear and it's an ok job. I can do better. Not bad for a test I think