I'm tired of all the problems I'm having with this cougar...I've decided that there must be a hairline crack in the block...everything else has been checked and double checked...some things even triple checked...the car did sit through the winter with nothing but WATER in the cooling system(thanks previous owner!).
One of my buddies has a 351 cleveland block and 4 barrel heads in his garage, everything has been to the machine shop and been cleaned and magnafluxed...he might be going with a 514 crate motor for his '66 stang drag car instead of the cleveland...
My main question is, would I successfully be able to mate it to the T-5? I'm sure there are numerous different flywheel and starter combo's that ford used through the years, I would think I could make something work.
Thanks,
Don
nope uses the same bellhousing as a 87-93 mustang but the flywheel has to be 28oz balance insted of the 50oz that the latemodel 5.0's use
Yeah, I'm aware of the 28oz balance...I heard somewhere that an early 302 flywheel would work(the small one that is). I'm going to have to do some more research on this topic.
80 model and back stick 302 or All 351 Windsors.
I used to have a 69 Cougar and decided to change from a 351W to a 351C. It was a bolt in but it was a BIG mistake. The 351C engine with 4 bbl heads is a dog down low. There's a good reason that Ford only made it a couple of years and continued with the W engine forever.
I would not touch a 351C again and I advise you not to do so either. Find a good 302 or 351W. You see very few people using 351C now days.
TED
Thanks for that info 5.8fastcat...
Cad-T-bird...I am aware of the lack of low end torque on the 4bbl clevelands...that's one of the reasons I plan to keep a manual trans behind it...From what I've seen, with a 4bbl 351C, you're a cam and a single plane intake away from 500hp...however I would probably go dual plane. This isn't something I'm dead set on doing yet, just checking out everything before I make my decision.
I know there is someone on this site with a 351C and a C6 and goes 13's....if anyone could provide me with a few somewhat detailed underhood pics of these cars with a cleveland in them and what I'd need to get as far as brackets for the accessories, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks to everyone for their input so far,
Don
Found him in the top 25 list, 14.3
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=11820
TED
Thanks for that link ted...say's he went 13.70's @ 104 in that thread...
You've got a 500ci Caddy engine in a Fox Bird. Compared to that, EVERYTHING'S gonna seem like a dog down low :hick:
This is true but the 351W has a lot of low end torque and would spin the tires with ease, the 351C would not spin at all. Once it rev up it did pretty good but for a street car it was a dog. You could put your arm down the intake ports, they are just too big.
TED
Yes but the offical time in the top 25 is 14.3. Mike makes you prove your time, even when he's there in person.
TED
IMO, You'd be better off putting a set of 351M/400 heads on there (2v) dime a dozen in the JY's. Atleast it would help with the lower rpm. Or you can check this site out: http://www.tmeyerinc.com/ Tim's a class act.
Here's a pic of a 351C in an 87 TC
Looks like it fits nicer than the 5.0...lol. I am not worried about low-end torque...with a 3.35 first gear and 3.73 rear...the RPM will climp super quick in first and with the T-5 there isn't any big drop in rpm through the gears...except for OD.
But I do appreciate everyone's advice!
Put a supercharger on it.. that will give you some low end grunt.
Well, I'm trying to do this on the cheap...and a 4-bolt 351C block and 4bbl heads are pricey enough...I wouldn't even consider the 2bbl or modified junk.
open or closed chamber?
He has the open chamber heads...I do need to buy a rotating assembly for it, so I can get whatever compression I so desire...I'm thinking around 10.5:1 would be nice.
The closed chamber heads offer higher compression ratios and 'quench'. The open chamber heads are lower compression and without quench. Tim from the link I posted was looking for open chamber 4v heads for a customer in Australia. He might be still looking, and may strike a deal with ya for a set of Aussie heads which are ripe for street/strip. He has everything else to put it together. Just a suggestion is all. Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestion HAVI, I just don't have possesion of the parts yet to even attempt that.
i had a 73 mustang w/a 71 boss 351. didn't make any power below 3500 rpm. what i did i found a set of aussie 302 cleveland heads. closed chamber w/ 2bbl heads. lost top end power but it felt like it picked up about 200 lbs/ft torque. one thing about the cleveland is you have to modify the oiling system. from the factory they oil the cam first andthen the mains. any machine shop can modify it on the cheap for main priority oiling. great engine and heads. thats why nascar still uses cleveland heads ( yates c3). I'd say go for it you won't be sorry. i'd love to find another one someday just to have it. good luck.
I'm starting to think about just a 351W shortblock with the 4v cleveland heads...the parts to do it are out there...and probably cheaper than buying a rotating assembly for the cleveland block.
probably easier, too.
Whats so hard about a Cleveland? It bolts in, and from there its just like any other carb conversion.
that would be a "clevor" (cleveland-windsor). not many companies make the intake manifold, but they're out there. also the heads and block would need to be machined for cooling purposes.
not hard at all, but a windsor is easier with the availability of parts, especially headers. I'm going one further, I'm using a 400.
PS: My bad, I thought he said Windsor only, a Clevor can be done, but Cleveland headers again become the issue.
I know the cleveland bolts right in...but sourcing the rotating assembly is more than twice the price of that for a windsor....so take the best of both worlds and go ahead building a clevor...i'm still not sure...if i hit the lotto, I'll build a stroker cleveland...if not...who knows.
I also have a guy who's going to show me pics of how to modify a set of 1 3/4" headers in a fox with a 4v cleveland.
Thanks for the responses!!!
-Don
91 octane: stroked cleveland FTW, lol Good luck, whatever you do. (pic courtesy of TMI)
for street use use the 2 bbl heads i know from experience. port volume is way too much for the street on the 4 bbl heads. as to the clevor. the nascar motors are basically that. they use the 2.75" main bore svo 351 w block with the yates heads. which are canted valve cleveland style heads with windsor water passages. the 351 w has a better stock oil system than the cleveland. but the stock 351 w has a 3" main bore. good for low end torque but not so good for rpm. if you want to use a dry intake drill into the water passage in the front and back of the heads and run braided steel hoses across to make your crossover passages. intakes are pricy but they are available. better yet fab up a sheetmetal intake. good luck dude
With the raised ports of the Yates heads, I don't think the Nascar intakes will work with iron heads.
There is a cheap 2bbl Cleveland on Egay under the "parts car" section listed as "70 Mustang 2bbl Cleveland motor complete".
Doubt if many will find it there.
Email me if you need any details of the Nascar engine stuff. I can try to take pics of my engine on the stand. There are some oiling tricks that help with any Ford motor.