Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

General => General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion => Topic started by: P71 on August 05, 2007, 09:16:18 PM

Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 05, 2007, 09:16:18 PM
Well, I fixed the starter. I broke the nose clean off, sheared the bendix, and wasted the bearings. Go me! I put in a spare and it cranked soooooo slowly. I drove around the block twice and there's coolant and oil everywhere. *sigh* Stupid 1035.

So I'll order up a 9883 and try to get it back together tomorrow. This sucks.

Guess the 14.7 seems a little more impressive now that I realize how blown the HG was :hick:
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: kingcars on August 05, 2007, 09:47:23 PM
For some reason, I was expecting a bit more outta the car too.  Get it fixed!  :)
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 05, 2007, 09:54:55 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166269
I drove around the block twice and there's coolant and oil everywhere. *sigh* Stupid 1035.

So I'll order up a 9883 and try to get it back together tomorrow. This sucks.

Guess the 14.7 seems a little more impressive now that I realize how blown the HG was :hick:


wideband wideband wideband!!!!

trust me

and its a 8993 ;)
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 05, 2007, 10:03:46 PM
OK, ok, wideband too :hick:

And I knew that... :D
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 05, 2007, 10:05:44 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166281
OK, ok, wideband too :hick:

And I knew that... :D


It will be the best money you ever spent. :D
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 06, 2007, 12:07:56 AM
Well, the head is already off (I work fast :P ). Head, block, and pistons are all A-OK. The  ARP head studs backed out AGAIN!!!! The nuts were all tight on the studs, but all the studs loosened off, causing boost to leak into the water passages.

I'm sick of this, so I'm going with Ford TTY bolts. That was the only problem I could find with the car.

And yes I'm on 35#s (albeit rebuilt). I'm thinking an AutoMeter WB is the next purchase after I get the head back on (tomorrow hopefully...)
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: tc² on August 06, 2007, 12:17:34 AM
so what is the advantage of going to a weaker head gasket other than having the gasket fail instead of something else?  isn't 1035 the stronger one and 8993 equivalent to stock?
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 06, 2007, 09:29:58 AM
The 1035 is *very* sensitive to out-of-flatness, pressure changes, and what-not. ANY boost leak will cause immediate failure. The 8993 is far more forgiving. And I'd much rather have a gasket go then a chunk of my block!

What you should really be asking is why I'm giving up ARP head studs for Ford TTY bolts. I followed ARP's directions to the "T", even using ARP assembly lube. The studs are supposed to be finger tight in the block but they keep backing out. This is the second time they've done it.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 06, 2007, 09:39:23 AM
I have ARP bolts in my TF headed 5.0, no problems... I did loose a HG back when I was sprayin' using stock bolts...
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: turboranger91 on August 06, 2007, 09:46:56 AM
i've used arp hardware for years.  i've used them in every build i've ever done.  did you go back and retorque the head studs after you heat cycled the motor?
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Chuck W on August 06, 2007, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166351

What you should really be asking is why I'm giving up ARP head studs for Ford TTY bolts. I followed ARP's directions to the "T", even using ARP assembly lube. The studs are supposed to be finger tight in the block but they keep backing out. This is the second time they've done it.

That's why I'm not reusing my ARP studs either....

Granted my problem now is a cracked head, but I'm just tired of screwing with them.  The past two times I've tried to use them they have let me down.

Hell, with as much  as you have sitting around, you should have enough of the "good" 12-point stock bolts sitting around.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 06, 2007, 09:53:18 AM
Chuck,
I do have a set of good 12-points. I also have a new set of TTY's. Which one would you use?

This is just too many failures for me. First backing out of the block with an 8993, and now with a 1035. The nuts were all tight on the studs, but the whole stud backed out. And yes, I re-torqued them.

I just don't understand, as I have ARP studs on the mains, and ARP rod bolts on the rods.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: turboranger91 on August 06, 2007, 09:56:52 AM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166361
Chuck,
I do have a set of good 12-points. I also have a new set of TTY's. Which one would you use?

This is just too many failures for me. First backing out of the block with an 8993, and now with a 1035. The nuts were all tight on the studs, but the whole stud backed out. And yes, I re-torqued them.

I just don't understand, as I have ARP studs on the mains, and ARP rod bolts on the rods.


something doesn't sound right.  did you use the same set on both head gaskets.  maybe the bolt holes in your head are streathed.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Chuck W on August 06, 2007, 10:10:41 AM
Mike-
If you have both, you might as well use the TTA.  I just didn't see the need to buy new bolts if you still had some good stockers.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: ipsd on August 06, 2007, 10:18:57 AM
I've always used the Fel-pro TTA bolt and haven't has any problems. Granted I'm not really pushing it at 15psi. They have never backed out on me. I've thought about the ARP's before but the more I read here and turbo ford I'm not so sure I want anything to do with them. If I had some of the 12point stockers I'd used them.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: gumby on August 06, 2007, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166361
And yes, I re-torqued them.

while it may be true that you did re-torque the studs, i dont think re-torquing them somewhere beyond 500miles counts as proper procedure. definitely not close enough for a simple "yes" to be a sufficient answer to turboranger91's question.


Quote from: ABM on TF
I have already put 500 miles on mine though.


Quote from: ABM on TF
Hrmm, it lasted 10,000 miles without a retorque!

Guess I better do this one before then...


:flip:
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 06, 2007, 06:56:02 PM
Again, the nuts did NOT back off of the studs. The STUDS backed out of the BLOCK.

Two different heads.

And Chuck, I honestly don't remember ever buying the TTA's, but they're laying on my desk in the Ford box.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Chuck W on August 06, 2007, 07:00:51 PM
I'd just use the TTA's I suppose.

I've had my ARP studs back out on me too...
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 06, 2007, 07:34:11 PM
ive had no issues with my arp studs but i do use thread sealer on them were they go into the block and snug them by hand with an allen key.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Chuck W on August 06, 2007, 07:45:12 PM
I snugged mine up by hand (very lightly) as well, but used no thread sealant.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 06, 2007, 07:50:15 PM
I used ARP thread sealant both times. First time I snugged with the allen, and 1 backed out. This time I went "by the book" from ARP and 5 backed out in under 1000 miles.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 06, 2007, 08:07:16 PM
do you think maybe the threads in the block are worn?
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Prototype Services on August 06, 2007, 09:37:24 PM
Somethings sounds weird here. Have you or anyone contacted ARP about this? I just don't see how it is possible for a stud to back out if the stud is made properly and the nut is torqued to specs. Maybe the torque spec needs to be increased, maybe the head gaskets relaxed. Maybe the block threads are suspect.
I have built hundreds of engines, most using studs, and don't think I've ever had this happen.
On my last personal motor, I did put red 271 Loctite on the threads of the studs, installed them tight and backed off 1/4 turn, then installed the heads and snugged the nuts to make sure the studs all pointed straight up. I left it overnight and then removed the heads before honing the cylinders with a torque plate.
I am very interested if you ever find a cause or solution.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 07, 2007, 01:38:53 AM
Yay! Layla runs! I went with a Victor-Reinz stock style HG. I'm a glutton for punishment though, I decided to keep the ARP studs. Only this time I torqued them into the block and I will re-torque the nuts tomorrow. Only other change was putting my old Taylor wires back on. I broke a Motor wire pulling it off.

I'm going to bed, but hooray for me! :hick:
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 07, 2007, 12:46:54 PM
What the? I fix Layla in under 24 hours and nobody says a word? Did you all have heart attacks? :D

Drove around the block this morning, all is well so far. Going to drive her to school and back and re-torque the nuts. Then an oil change and coolant flush is in order.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Chuck W on August 07, 2007, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166818
What the? I fix Layla in under 24 hours and nobody says a word? Did you all have heart attacks? :D



Uh no..it's your drama, not ours ;)

You should heat cycle, let cool and then retorque....not drive, cool, drive, cool  and then retorque....
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: vinnietbird on August 07, 2007, 12:59:39 PM
Drama..........."and theeese are the daaaays of our lives".
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 07, 2007, 03:55:27 PM
It's only 2 miles to school, it doesn't even warm up. But I took the looong way home so now it's nice and hot. I'll let it cool and re-torque.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Tbird232ci on August 07, 2007, 04:32:41 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166818
What the? I fix Layla in under 24 hours and nobody says a word? Did you all have heart attacks? :D


If you fixed it right the first time, and didnt get so much practice, you wouldnt be so fast :flame:
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 07, 2007, 04:36:51 PM
Oooooh BURN! :hick:
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 07, 2007, 09:32:28 PM
Well, today went perfect. Oil change and coolant flush went off without any hitches and the heat cycle worked nicely. (Drove 2 miles to school, temp gauge didn't even register, 20 minutes there, then an extended drive home with no stops longer then 5 minutes, got the car nice and hot, came home and let cool.) All of the studs seemed to need a little 'oomph' to get them back to 90#, so hopefully that cures the re-torque problem. None of the studs have backed out at all (I marked them and actually tightened them this time, ARP's destructions be ed). She runs very smoothly now (best ever I think actually). I'm going to take it easy for 100 miles or so and make sure everything is a-ok, then it's time for boost again. ;)
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 08, 2007, 02:51:23 PM
2psi this morning and it popped. I didn't get the head clean enough. I'm done with this POS for a few weeks, I need a break!
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: bhazard on August 08, 2007, 03:15:59 PM
Just do it again. Now. Do it. Do it right.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Jim_Miller on August 08, 2007, 03:19:31 PM
Well that sucks
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: cougarcragar on August 08, 2007, 05:54:32 PM
"Layla. You got me on my knees, Layla...
I'm beggin' darlin' please, Layla..."
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Chuck W on August 08, 2007, 06:25:13 PM
Quote from: cougarcragar;167224
"Layla. You got me on my knees, Layla...
I'm beggin' darlin' please, Layla..."


And now we must kill you......
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: JeremyB on August 08, 2007, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;166818
What the? I fix Layla in under 24 hours and nobody says a word?

Come again? :D ;)
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: Chuck W on August 08, 2007, 06:27:34 PM
Quote from: JeremyB;167239
Come again? :D ;)


I was going to say something about that too.....;)
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: gumby on August 08, 2007, 06:31:51 PM
probly get alot more responses now :evilgrin:
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: P71 on August 08, 2007, 07:31:56 PM
When I torqued the head down about a half quart of oil came out in-between the head and block. I didn't clean the head out and when I put it on the car it must have drained oil and coolant all over the head gasket. I just rushed it way too much. Now I have to do it all over again. *sigh*
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 08, 2007, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;167258
When I torqued the head down about a half quart of oil came out in-between the head and block. I didn't clean the head out and when I put it on the car it must have drained oil and coolant all over the head gasket. I just rushed it way too much. Now I have to do it all over again. *sigh*



Sucks man hope you get it straightened out soon.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: motormenace on August 08, 2007, 11:06:57 PM
Red Loctite and torque them down to 100 ft pounds. Either that or find (or use) the old 12 points with a little oil. Both work the same, one is just harder to get the head off of. Head gaskets don't mean much to me. Used them all, blown them all.

Also, a wide band doesn't do much good if you can't tune it. Consider a TwEECer in the future also.:D
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on August 08, 2007, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: motormenace;167326
Also, a wide band doesn't do much good if you can't tune it. Consider a TwEECer in the future also.:D


100% true but you can tweak the stock stuff some. unless the afr  is way out of wack.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: 46Tbird on August 09, 2007, 12:36:01 AM
I didn't read all the replies, but there is a simple way to eliminate the head studs from backing out.

First clean the threads in the block with brake cleaner to remove any oil and dirt. Then use light threadlocker on the studs' threads that go into the block.  Once fully seated by hand, put two nuts on each stud, get them both fully threaded, then jam them together slightly to lock them to the stud.  Torque it to 15-20lbs.  Then back the nuts off one at a time.  Do that to all ten studs and you'll NEVER have another stud back out.

Of course follow ARP's recommendations on torque specs after installing the head.  And make sure you have the dowel pins in the block that hold the head gasket in position.
Title: Argh!!!! Blew it up!
Post by: motormenace on August 09, 2007, 08:20:54 AM
Quote from: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87;167327
100% true but you can tweak the stock stuff some. unless the afr  is way out of wack.


I fully agree. If your blowing gaskets, you can at least help a little by more full pressure (definently a big help if your leaning out at the top end).