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Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: dudeman351 on July 15, 2007, 09:25:59 AM

Title: zero gap rings
Post by: dudeman351 on July 15, 2007, 09:25:59 AM
what do you think? are they worth the extra money? i know the svo at the shop has them.it makes 350 hp but i still see 350 hp with regular rings. the reason i'm asking is cause the turbo motor is coming out soon to freshen up  and i'm cloning the mods to the svo motor cept for the turbo. i'll be using the t3 off the svo. and it has a t3/04 hybrid.
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: Chuck W on July 15, 2007, 09:33:23 AM
No....don't use the gapless rings in a turbo application.

The SVO may have them, but don't use them.

Total Seal doesn't recommend them any more for higher boost applications and my old motor in the '83 was killed because of gapless rings.
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: dudeman351 on July 15, 2007, 09:35:50 AM
thank you chuck that was what i wanted to know>
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: dudeman351 on July 15, 2007, 10:05:33 AM
how did the gapless rings kill your motor?
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: jcassity on July 15, 2007, 11:06:11 AM
Quote from: dudeman351;160904
how did the gapless rings kill your motor?


yeah, like on my 3.8 ,  i checked the bore using a stock new ring positioned at the top, middle and bottom.  A stock ring came up with .030 average. 

i got oversize rings and filed till all three positions were under .010.  THis has been a while back but i believe i had to get metric for some odd reason,,dono why.

i should've done the same to my 306 but the bores/pistons are already .040 and finding 040 over is expensive enough.
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on July 15, 2007, 02:20:37 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;160900
No....don't use the gapless rings in a turbo application.

The SVO may have them, but don't use them.

Total Seal doesn't recommend them any more for higher boost applications and my old motor in the '83 was killed because of gapless rings.


X2

heard horrer stories

i used the e441k sealed power ring set
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: Chuck W on July 15, 2007, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: dudeman351;160904
how did the gapless rings kill your motor?


They can't handle the boost and they will just shatter.

Mine came out in 12-15 pieces....and took out the cylinder wall with them.
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on July 15, 2007, 03:53:16 PM
I suspect its a deal where the heat from the boost causes the rings to expand to the point of binding, and they dig into the cylinder wall and break...
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: jcassity on July 15, 2007, 10:56:44 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;160978
I suspect its a deal where the heat from the boost causes the rings to expand to the point of binding, and they dig into the cylinder wall and break...


that seems logical.  I guess i gotta be careful with that 3.8 on the garage floor,, i know how much boost that thing can make:D

are gapless rings for the most part ok in a non turbo application?
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: Cougar5.0 on July 15, 2007, 11:35:20 PM
I dunno - I used them in one rebuild and they would not seal and I blew-by about 1 qt of oil every 200 miles. I suppose they are OK if they seal up, but I don't think they are worth the extra money.
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: JeremyB on July 15, 2007, 11:47:25 PM
Most of the problems I've seen from oil use have resulted from improper installation (dipping pistons in oil, etc).
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: Cougar5.0 on July 16, 2007, 10:09:23 AM
That's true, but are they worth the extra money? Do they really provide enough extra performance to warrant the more precise cylinder finish and cost? ( I was told I didn't have the cylinder finish they require - WTF? ) ( I would never dip a piston in oil )
Title: zero gap rings
Post by: Chuck W on July 16, 2007, 10:31:51 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;160978
I suspect its a deal where the heat from the boost causes the rings to expand to the point of binding, and they dig into the cylinder wall and break...



Yup (http://www.turbochuck.com/images/Tbird/2.3T%20Refresh/Dead%20%234.JPG)
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