Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

I went and looked at my uncle's Mustang tonight, seems there's more to the lights than size. Namely, shape.
The Tbird headlights are square on the outer side (away from the grille), and kinda tipped on the inside. The stang lights are square all around. So putting just the stang headlights in would conflict with the inner marker, since that part on the bird is angled as well. I don't know how the inner marker would fit the Tbird grille and header panel, although it seems it would take even more modification to make that work as well.
(http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/3c/52/d4_1_b.JPG)
^Mustang Headlight
(http://i8.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/f5/4c/54_1_b.JPG)
^Tbird Headlight

I also found that the outside marker light is totally different. On the Tbird, the outer edge of the light is flush with the 1/4 panel, header panel and bumper cover so it makes a straight line all the way down. The stang bumper cover doesn't end at the edge of the corner light; rather, it extends an inch or two farther out. The edge of the light itself is at an angle
(http://images.andale.com/f2/121/116/1735586/1019657814061_PLP1650207.jpg)
^mustang corner light
(http://i14.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/21/ea/94_1_b.JPG)
^Tbird corner light
obviously, this would require modification to the 1/4 panel of the bird to get the corner lights to work, which could of course be done, but by someone with bodywork experience, something I don't have.
Looking back at the headlights, I tried to think of some way to get just the headlight in there. I got the idea to take the lense off of the Tbird headlight, and put it on the headlight assembly from the Mustang. There would obviously be some difference in one of the corners (bottom inside), but that can be fixed with a plastic filler piece and some epoxy. If the headlight assembly itself conflicts with the inner marker, it too can be shaved down to comply with the Tbird lense (although, IIRC, the top of the mustang light is the same size as the Tbird light. the narrowest part of the Tbird lense, which is across the top, is about the same size as the stang lense at any point). Tomorrow I will find a stock mustang light and a py stock Tbird light and see exactly how different they are.

Of course, the optics will probably be screwed with a lens swap.
The location of the bulb, the shape of the reflector, and the distance/angle of the lens are all carefully designed to work together. The Mustang reflector is expecting a flattish lens, while the Bird is a lot more angled, up-down and side-to-side.

I'm not going to flat-out say it won't work (we've had enough of that), so grab a couple of py lights and a saw, and go for it. You may be able to find some broken ones the wrecker will give you for free, just to experiment with.

Remember, if nobody ever tried anything but as-built-from-the-factory pieces, there wouldn't be any V8 Turbo Coupes, or "Hot Rods" of any kind.

OH man...here come the i told ya so's...lol :brick:

my take on this is anything can be fabed up. the turbo coupe header is all fiberglass as you all likely know making it reasonably workable. personally, id like to see 99 up mustang lights across the front of a tbird. i think it wold liik pretty sweet. possibly some crown vic lights. even something just to make some projectors work, although i think it would be "easier" to fap up a whole new "block.

i have NO experiance with any of this type of customizeation but if i were going to try this i do have an idea. working with rc aircraft we used to scratchbuild useing wood, wood plugs, templates, and foam. final product was cut foam, tiny carbon rods (spruce spars for larger wings) and vacume "packed" into fiberglass, kevelar and or carbon fiber depending on the opperation.

there are a few neet ways to cut foam one being useing teplates, wire bows and electricity. all my equipment moved to FL with a friend of mine but i guess i couls make up some new stuff.

without getting into too much discription, id guess you could make up a complete foam plug big enough to replace the entire nose "id reuse the lower tbird bumper" and useing the new light/header assembly cut the plug down to fit. if you could get that far than im sure it cold be done. everything would end up being fiberglass and kevlar, would take a  lot of hours and patience and unfortunately money. i also realize to ust the mustang lights they would have to also be cut into the front of the fenders i believe.

anyway, i guess this was just a rant. it realy would be cool. its going to pick my brain for awhile now. it realy actually seems do-able with a little dedication. anybody wanna photoshop a mustang or crown vic nose onto a turbo coupe? i wonder what it would look like?

IT!!! I have been wondering about this ever since I seen a projector conversion kit for an 87 stang, and was oh so curious if it would also work on my 87 cat. Looks like im SOL! Unless the cougs lights are more like the stangs, I've never owned a bird so I dont know...

the cougar lights look like they're more square, so they'd have a better chance of fitting, but I don't know the size of them, and the lense is probably at an angle.

if swapping lenses would mess the lights up, I guess I could mess with the corner light some...I have to have them to mess with so I know what can/can't be done. thanks for the support n ideas guys

k well I went to the yard and tried to compare lights. the mustang lights are all pretty much flat, like the front end. The tbird comes to a point in the middle (like a beak :p) so even if stang lights were to fit in there perfectly, you'd be able to see out to the side, but not straight ahead  :shakehead also because of this, the mustang header panel is pretty much flat, whereas the Tbird is kinda stepped, so the inside part is a few inches more forward than the outside. so it seems it just wasn't meant to be.

and to the "i-told-you-so"s, yeah you're right, but at least I went and tried to see if it would work, rather than just assuming it wouldn't.

now to see if cougars2go will stop ignoring me and tell me where he got his lights  :grinno:

*looks at other thread* Nice to see you all can get into fights without my help. :p

Didn't someone say awhile back that they were looking into having custom lenses made by some company?

that would definitely be the best way. however, as we all know, Tbirds aren't exactly as popular as, say, mustangs, and companies usually are more worried about making money, rather than making a small group of people happy. those CHE upper/lower arms are examples of a company who is not just looking to get rich, as I've read, Chuck has a soft spot for fox tbirds/cougars. if we could find a company with the resources to manufacture a limited run of custom headlights, and, more importantly, the desire to do so, we'd be able to finally get rid of our headlight woes. we could probably even get someone from the boards to design some up and just have the company go by those plans, so all they have to worry about is making them. i'm crossing my fingers, but I'm not holding my breath

I think I mentioned in that last discussion about it that a group buy might be in order for something like that, if someone could be found to make the lenses.

I'd definitely be up for it. I'd hope, however, there would be more than one kind of setup tho, like crystal clear (none of the py little tube things on the lense), smoke, and projector, maybe more than one kind of projector too. I just don't want to be like everyone else :p I'd probably still be happy with some clear ones tho, just wishful thinking

Exactly. I didn't just close my eyes and start cutting, I looked high and low for several months to see if anyone made anything better for the Bird. Bosch, Cibie, Hella, etc., etc........ nothing.

As stated, not as popular, and nowhere near the production volume (ie: potential parts sales) as Mustangs.
Mustang aero: 7 years, 87-93 (8 if you include the SVO's 2nd year).
T-Bird aero: 2 years only, 87-88.

The tooling and design work would cost the same for either car, but if your bean counters estimate 50 T-Bird sales vs. 50,000 Mustang, which way would you go?

exactly, which is why the company would need to be run by someone who loves Tbirds. then again, if that were so, he'd probably already have made some for his car  :giggle:

Why would you need to find a T-bird/Cougar fan to have custom glass made? Money's money.. get enough people together who want to buy the lenses, and find someone who does such custom work, and I doubt it would matter what kind of vehicle they were into. Yeah, it's great when you get someone like this guy from CHE and the whole control arm thing.. even better when that person listens to you and builds exactly what you want.. I'm really glad he's here, and I'll happily buy from him when I can afford to.. but if someone came along who was a fan/owner of a car he wasn't into, and offered up enough cash to have parts fabricated for their car, I'd think he'd be kinda foolish to say no to it if those parts were within his capacity to make.

Then the questions remain: Could we find someone who could and would do custom glass work to make a batch of lenses that would be superior to what we have on our 87-88s, (because really, what's the point of having such a thing done if it wasn't some sort of improvement?) and if so, what kind of money would we need to come up with to have it done? Even I would see what I could do as far as helping such an effort along financially.. although my '88 isn't even on the road right now, and I can't really afford such things currently.

If no one was willing or able to do this for us, well so be it. But if it can and did happen, I honestly doubt it matters whether or not they're Bird/Cat fans. (if they are, though, that's cool.. the more the merrier)

BTW, I don't think I've seen anyone else say it, especially with all the arguing from the other thread, but hey.. thanks for trying to find an alternate source of lights, at least. So it didn't work out.. at least you tried.

Hate to say it, but it seems this place has painted itself into a corner lately. If action X (speaking hypothetically) is the generally accepted action to take regarding whatever thing on our car, like dealing with a headlight or swapping an engine or whatever, even discussing action Y or action Z will get some to say something like "oh just do action X and be done with it".. but then some will complain that they're sick and tired of all the discussions about action X. I've taken to discussing a lot of this type stuff privately with some of the people around here whom I tend to think of in a friend-like manner. It gets things discussed a little more thoroughly, and it also avoids stepping on the nerves of the people who seem a little burned out and irritable around here lately. (holy chit, he actually puts some thought into the feelings of others around here? *gasp*) Oh well. Hopefully it's just some seasonal thing and will pass. The apparent burnout, that is. :p

cuz I think if someone is partial to our cars, they would be a little more likely to make the parts with more motivation than $$.

and I was thinking of plastic stuff, not glass, i figure plastic would be cheaper. but what do I know...

and as we know, we all want to do stuff to our cars, and get custom parts made,but if I remember correctly, awhile ago there was supposed to be some kind of group buy for fiberglass body panels. but a lot of people flaked, so it never happened. that's one thing to think about, cuz we can all say "that'd be sooo cool if someone made lights for our car!", but when they want $300 for a pair of headlights, few of us would fork it over.

I have no idea how the plastic headlight housings are made, I was just assuming that they were injected into molds.if that's correct, then the manuf. would have to make molds specific for our cars (the mustang is similar, but as I found, also very different). again, I don't know how much it costs to make a mold. I guess all we can do is start contacting all kinds of headlight manuf., plastic mold makers, ??? someone will know more about how they're made than I do.

and I'm sure some people have thought about using sheet metal for making the housings, dunno if anyone has tried tho. might also pursue that

thanks  :ies:

and I've found that a lot of car forums are like that. like a mustang forum, somebody says they want to port their stock heads and save money. EVERYBODY running aftermarket twisted wedge or edelbrock $1,000+ heads says to get the same heads they have, and that porting the stockers isn't worth it. they don't seem to realize that not everyone has a well-paying job, and that there are far better things for them to spend a grand on than some heads. besides, if everyone went with the same exact combo, there'd be no individuality, and nobody's car would be better/faster than anyone else's.

oh, and many people have told me to not try to make the bird fast, just get a mustang  :shakehead if I wanted to be like everyone else, sure, I'd do it. then again, I'd probably watch reality tv, wear shiznitty clothes that cost a ton, and have natty, nasty bed hair every day like it's cool

Hey!  Sounds like NASCAR!

hehe  :grinno: