Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Saw this on another forum. Sweet merciful , how do politicians get away with this kind of shiznit:

How the **** is this not cruel and unusual punishment? And how is there not going to be a revolt over this? Yikes.

Wow!! That would suck some major ballz!

i left virginia beach back in 96 and never looked back.

sometimes when im out of state, people ask where im from,, i tell them West Virginia,,,,,not to be confused with Virginia.

commonweath (communist) state of virginia.

:hick: AHHHHH!!!!. What really bites about traffic laws is that they are originally intended for the safety of the public, because too many people have no real driving skills. That is just plain disgusting. it deserves this :toilet: Actualy it needs to be set on fire. I would hope that the judicious system throws it out as unconstitutional.

I'm pissed now my Mom sold her 4 acres near Williamsburg(WV)...

Mostly the laws apply to really stupid stuff, but it will be fairly easy to get tangled up in them if not careful...

Here's a Washington post article...

By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 23, 2007; A01



Attention Virginians: The cost of bad driving is about to go up. Way up.

Say you are driving 78 mph on the Capital Beltway and a state trooper tickets you for "reckless driving -- speeding 20 mph over." You will probably be fined $200 by the judge. But then you will receive a new, additional $1,050 fine from the Old Dominion, payable in three convenient installments. So convenient that you must pay the first one immediately, at the courthouse.

First-time drunk driver? A $300 fine from the judge and a $2,250 fee from the commonwealth.

Driving without a license? Maybe a $75 fine. Definitely a $900 fee from Virginia.

As part of the plan to fund the annual $1 billion transportation package approved this year, state legislators endorsed a new set of "civil remedial fees" for all misdemeanor and felony traffic violations, such as speeding 20 mph above the limit, reckless driving and, in some cases, driving with faulty brakes. Drivers with points on their licenses -- a speeding ticket usually earns four points -- will be hit for $75 for every point above eight and $100 for having that many points in the first place.

The new fees will go into effect July 1, and defense attorneys, prosecutors and judges expect chaos. Court clerks fear having to deal with angry hordes learning about the fees for the first time at the payment window.

"I think that we will be overwhelmed," said Nancy L. Lake, clerk of the Fairfax County General District Court, which includes the busiest traffic court in the state. "We feel we're going to take a lot of flack."

The fees will be imposed only on Virginia residents. All defendants must pay the fines, but the "abuser fees," as Del. David B. Albo (R-Fairfax) calls them, are part of the state licensing fees and cannot be imposed on out-of-state drivers.

Standard traffic infractions, such as low-level speeding and running a stop sign, do not carry the fees. The state courts posted the fees and eligible offenses this month.

Albo and Del. Thomas D. Rust (R-Fairfax), who co-sponsored the fee legislation, project that $65 million to $120 million will be raised annually to cover costs of snow removal, pothole repair and grass-mowing. Money for Northern Virginia's congested roads had to come from somewhere, they reasoned, and new taxes were not going to fly in the GOP-controlled House of Delegates.

The people who will be caught up in the new fees say the first wave of chaos will hit in early August, when the first tickets issued under the new law arrive in courthouses.

Traffic court judges fear they will see a huge increase in trials, with defendants unwilling to plead guilty because they know they will face additional fees.

Prosecutors say that in addition to possibly handling more trials, judges might suspend fines they usually impose, knowing that a heavier civil fee awaits. The money from fines will go to county governments, which could then face a decline in revenue. Funds from the new fees will go to the state.

Defense attorneys say the new fees will unfairly burden the poor because they will not be able to pay them, will lose their licenses and possibly their jobs, and then will face tickets for unlicensed driving, which would lead to jail time.

Michael S. Davis, a veteran Fairfax defense attorney, said he plans to file a legal challenge to the fees the first time he encounters them. "If somebody from out of state does not have to pay the same price," Davis said, "I think there's clearly an equal-protection issue" under the U.S. Constitution.

Albo said he would agree with that view if the fee were imposed as criminal punishment. "But it's not," he said. "It's a variable registration fee based on the lousiness of your record. We're giving people with good driving records a reduction in their fee. And we can't charge a registration fee on people from New York flying through Virginia."

Lead-footed drivers should not hold their breath waiting for the legal challenge. Davis said it would have to plow through the state's administrative process before making it to the courts and would be followed by levels of appeals. It would take years.

The fees were included in a larger package passed by the General Assembly to try to address the burgeoning congestion across the state. When Albo and Rust submitted the fee proposals as legislation by themselves in previous years, they were shot down.

"My job as a delegate is to make people slow down and build some roads," Albo said. "This bill does both."

Rust and Albo said New Jersey imposes similar fees to great effect. New Jersey was "pretty convinced it improved safety on the roads," Rust said.

New Jersey calls the fees "surcharges" and raises about $130 million from them annually, Cathleen Lewis, state motor vehicle agency spokeswoman, said. The money is not specifically earmarked for transportation and has been collected since 1983. The number of points drivers have accrued has decreased since 1983, Lewis said, but there is no study linking the decrease directly to the surcharges. New Jersey charges all drivers, not just residents.

And most of New Jersey's surcharges are much smaller: $100 for driving without a license, compared with $900 in Virginia. But a first conviction for driving while intoxicated in New Jersey brings a $3,000 hit vs. $2,250 in Virginia.

In Virginia, the fee can be paid over three years. After the first third is paid at the courthouse, the other two are to be billed by the state Department of Motor Vehicles. DMV officials have not determined how that will work, a spokeswoman said.

Faced with the prospect of financially poorer drivers losing their licenses when they cannot pay a fee, judges might start suspending part or all of the original fines, Alexandria Commonwealth's Attorney Randolph S. Sengel said. The result "might be increased transportation funding offset by decreased general fund revenue," he said.

"For someone who's living near the poverty line, or even making $30,000," said Fairfax public defender Todd G. Petit, fees of $1,000 or more might have "a significant impact," and failure to pay them might lead to losing a license, a job and income. "These appear to be punitive measures that are being hidden in civil fees. If we gave the judges discretion to do what is necessary and proportionate, then we can raise the money without disproportionately affecting the poor."

Lawyers said that more defendants will hire lawyers than before, that the lawyers will charge more money because the stakes are higher and that more cases will be appealed to circuit courts.

"It's basically the Lawyer Full Employment Act," cracked one Fairfax lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he stands to benefit from the new law.

But, Albo said: "it's basically a voluntary tax. If you don't commit a crime on the streets, or run up a huge amount of points, you don't pay anything. We believe its main effect will be to get people to stop driving like maniacs."

[QUOTE speeding 20 mph above the limit, reckless driving and, in some cases, driving with faulty brakes. Drivers with points on their licenses -- a speeding ticket usually earns four points -- will be hit for $75 for every point above eight and $100 for having that many points in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the fines sound harsh, however, the reasons that someone would get one sound reasonable.
First of all, why does anyone need to drive 20 mph over the set speed limit?
Drunk driving should have heavy fines.
Faulty brakes, well, depending on the situation, that could be a huge problem.

All of these situations can be avoided by a mature responsible driver.  As far as I can see, the only ones who have to worry are those who probably should not be driving in the first place.
Besides, if you have 8 points on your license, you probably shouldn't have one.

Forgot to say, I don't condone how they got this law to pass, it does seem to make the rich, richer.  I'd love to see one of their lawmakers have to pay the same fines if they break the laws too.

This is the really sick part. The delegate that brought the laws about makes his living fighting traffic fines, while at the same time imposing heavy fines, thus guaranteeing he'll get plenty of business. Can we say "conflict of interest"?

Ouch. And I thought the mandatory $100+ court costs here sucked.

They mean "As part of a new plan to line the pockets of the lawyers that make up the legislature of the Communist Republic of Virginia"...


I'm glad I renounced my citizenship in Va in 1994... Patrick Henry is rolling over in his grave.

I think the constatution will tear this apart.
 
In the Bill Of Rights (http://"http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html")we have...

then from Thunder Chickens quote we have...

seems to fall under "excessive fines" I would think.
However as LittleAngel points out, don't do the crime and no problem.

Oh Virginia. I miss your beach but I do not miss your laws. They suspended my license after I moved back to Alabama for not having insurance on my car. Which is another story. So after the case (over the phone) the judge or whatever says it's cool, no big deal and I go on my merry way. I receive the paperwork stating that everything is kosher. Sweet. A couple days later I get another set of papers stating that everything is NOT kosher (she had a change of heart) and now I have to pay a $500 reinstatement fee on top of some other  and of course my license was suspended. Which could not of come at a better time as I was just laid off and my AL license expired. Going back and forth between AL and VA to get everything sorted out was an f-ing nightmare. It was pretty much my fault, but I just needed to vent. :D

And doing +15mph in VA is not that hard. Especially when the highway speed limit is 55 around Norfolk/VAB/Cheasepeake area.

Drunk driving on the other hand... no sympathy.

Nah, Outer Banks is better and always has been. :) I'm just wondering how you managed to make it to 55 mph in the gridlock known as "Norfolk/VAB/Cheasepeake area"? Mostly one sits in traffic even on 64. Been that way for twenty years and I suspect will be for at east 20 more even with this "revenue generation" thing if it sticks. The money will go where it always has, in Richmond in the lawyers pockets and if any actually makes it to the construction of a real road it'll be in Northern Va.

When it's moving it's going 70-75 easy... I've sprinted to highly illegal speeds in the Lightning a couple times, just to get in line for the next exit... Guess I'll have to stop that...:hick:

BTW I live less than two miles from the I-64 & I-464 interchange, so I'm on it regularly...

BTW #2.. AFAIK, unless it's changing, reckless driving is 20 MPH over the posted limit, not 15...

There has to be an Ohio I Love You song.....

Yup, better unhook the belt on the L and get in line early. Like when you leave the tunnel (whichever one is closest to your "entry point") :)

It is 20 over, or used to be, but did you know they can write reckless driving for not using a turn signal? http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html

Indeed in ohio reckless op is double what the posted speed limit is , i should know considering that was my first ticket at 18, i thought that the 500 + i paid in court and Lawyer fees was ridiculous.

I just got back from Newport News, VA at 3 AM this morning after visiting my family down there and now my wife wants to move down there. It is very easy to go over the speed limit just keeping with the flow of traffic. I saw police going 85+ past while we were doing 75.  We didn't have any traffic problems on 64 the whole week we were down there though.
Had a good time down there, we took my son down to Grave Diggers Dungeon in NC and on the way i saw a four eye bird for sale. Saw a couple other foxes too while i was down there.

you dont get it,, there are many places in Va (capital beltway , richmond 295, 64 east out of richmond, charlottsville, ect) where the speed limit for no real apparent reason drops to 50.  Sometimes you can see the limit drop to 40 on I 460.

its real easy to get the typical 74mph in a 55 zone, where as just a couple tenths of a mile back the speed limit was 65. 

I travel a lot in this state and i pay attention.  Be watchful of the "lack" of the "reduce speed ahead" signs that usually give warning. 


besides, its better if i drive around 70 for gas mileage reasons.  It feels better on the car and its more effiicient on gas in my case.

As more and more highways get subcontraced out or sold to companies that take care of them, or companies from other countries, we will see these types of laws other countries find as common.

I just have one curiosity,,,,, just one question,,,,,

Evidently there was no money in place to mow the grass and take care of pot holes ect from all the past years.,,, CORRECT?  This is the purpose for the bill so tell me o'great ones,,,,,,,,
Where did the money come from before this bill?  I always thought the road dept looked pretty busy all these years imho.

(can you say,,,,,, the real story is yet to come as no one in virginia wants to say the DOT isnt funding road maint anymore).  I"m curious of the current employee base in va and how that has been sub'd out to hid all this  that suddenlly becomes law.

This bill is simple pork barrel politics

Another question
What is going to happen to the old tax structure that funded road upkeep?  are they going to delete that tax and substitute in this one?  I think not,, Va will double tax you at every cross road you can imagine.

Ohio is just about as bad if not worse

:)
Who said anything about gridlock? :D

I was in the military at the time (about 9-years ago) and I had anything but a regular 9-5 schedule.

U.S friends, your legislation really, really, really REALLY SUCKS !!!!!

Not sure if it's correct, but I heard this on the news tonight... Most of the fines are NOT applicable unless you have eight negative points(I have +5, max you can acculimate).. Exceptions will be drunk driving and driving without a license(which you have to have more than 8 to loose it)...

Still there's such a stink going on, I suspect some changes... If nothing else certain legislators...