Well, I would have rememberd to do this earlier but the TC kinda ate up my life. The other day I went to start my car and move it so the Vic can be up more in the driveway, but it turned over weird. It would crank slow then when I hit the pedel for more gas into the carb, the starter " stumbled" and never started. After I assume the gas burned up, the went back to turning over slow. I took it as the battery was dead and went to remove the batt cables and they were HOT:flame: . I duno what this is, and rather to mess with it I'm asking for help first. All I did that day was switch the coil and it ran fine in the morning. I went to move my car later in the day and here we are now. I didn't check to see if I had spark as it ran fine 3 hours before this. No rush but curious to WTF happened. Should I drop $140-ish on a new starter got have what I got rebuilt? I will say this is a JY explorer 5.0 starter if that playin into this
make sure all the grounds are nice and clean first. unbolt the starter and clean the mating surface.
A project for tomorow... after SUPER NATS!!!
definitely a resistance problem.
So rebuild the starter, buy a new mini for about $140 or go back to stock style starter for about $45
clean all connections and check em!
Tomorow. I just got home from super nats. I'l get pics, have napa test it and report back
Don't forget you can take it to Berger Electric, too. He's very reasonably priced.
I'll give him a call tomorow. I don't think he's open on sunday.
take that starter solenoid apart,, there is a spring in there and contacts. clean them up ,, see if its just binding.
your battery cables getting warm and the starter cable getting hot tells me the solenoid is partially enguaged. the starter should be a little warm as well, something is drawing the load with the car just sitting there.
this is somethign you can do today just to see if it changes something. Lubricate the moving parts from the solenoid. Clean up the contacts in the solenoid and put some no-ox on them.
did you try tapping on the starter with the battery cables in a "hot condition" and see if the cables finally cool down. If they do, then your problem is a moving part on the starter.
if you decide you need to also lube the fork / lever in the starter that actuates the bendix, just make sure your brushes get replaced as well.
harbor freight and some other hardware stores sell brush kits for various motors ect.
Scott.... great info but I'll let a pro do it. And the battery cables were only hot after I turned it over for about 15 sec's to try to start it. If it's just sitting it's fine
just remember one thing,, they'rre all either close to dead or already gone. Not too many folks out there left that are "pro's". I got my small list of who i call pro's. Use to be there were many around, not anymore.
Well, it's not the starter. It's messed up, because it has spark, fuel, and I just set the timing last week at 10*. Brian told me it could be the timing chain, but before I trear into the car, I want to have a better understanding of what else it could be. ANY sugestions here would be nice. So far I have checked the plugs, rotor, dizzy cap, starter and duraspark box and all seem to be good
Bring #1 piston to top dead center,your timing mark on the crank should be 0,take dist.cap off rotor should be pointing at #1.
If it is it's not the chain.sounds like electricle to me"start system"
I didn't touch a thing from last time I started it. Just went to turn it over and then nothin. I'll check TDC and re-check plugs now. Any more ideares?
Do you have the selinoid on the fender,If you do the short cable from the battery could be shiznit they build up with corrosion in the jacket where you can't see it.Are you sure the battery's up?
Like said before clean every connection specialy the grounds.
Did that. Also pulled the plugs and cleaned them. A bit black but nothing like my old ones were. The more I check the more I think it's the timing chain. Not that I wana change it, but I can't check too much more before I have to dig in and see whats there
I would not presume it is that ,check it like I said.unless you want to rip it a part.
Didn't you say you have another engine?Maybe it's time to start getting it ready instead of investing more and more money into something you want to get rid of anyway.
Did you check the Electrical cables and connections? You didn't mention that you checked them and i have had a simple cracked terminal completely shut down a car before.
Check all ground and positive connections make sure they are clean and tight.
put the crown vic motor in it
Meh, the 85 Cougar motor will be going in. I just dont know if I wana fix whats it in or build the new one now. I'm using the intake,. carb, headers and oil pan from the current motor. All I'm really changing on the couger motor is heads and cam. The rest I can upgrade as I go. All connections look good so far. And kitzdnm
will that really make that big of a difference. The soloniod on the fender is just a wire holder for the most part. It's a new soloniod and the wire from the battery to that has no corosion that I an see.
You(and a lot of others)would save yourself a lot of time, money and headaches IF you'd learn how to do electrical troubleshooting... A timing chain will NOT cause SLOW LABORED cranking... Tried a known good battery??? Overheating cables generally indicate a bad starter or possibly bad cable or it's connection...
Things to check would be...
Battery voltage (static and cranking) as well as voltage drop on the cables while cranking... All this can be done with a cheap($2.99 on sale) Harbor Freight digital multi meter...
Remove the belts, occasionally it's stupid stuff... About 10 years ago, I made a trip to lower Georgia to tow back the daughters 2.3 Stang that had been diagnosed as having seized engine... Something was seized all right, but it was the two month old P/S pump(talk about pissed)... Bypassed it and drove it home...
I tried both the Interstate Megatron battery that is normaly in my car, the Vic'a Diehard battery, and jumping it with the Vic. My Battery is on the charger righ now so I'll try again later. It just feels like it's not firing, though it has all the sutff "needed" to fire. And at this point even if it's not the timing chain I'll be updating things soon. I have a MSD coil and MSD 6A box to go on, a mechanical fuel pump with front cover to go on.... It's just a matter of time. Though I would really like to know the problem.
Do a resistance check on all the cables. Check between the battery post and the cable terminal. Check between the battery - and ground on the car. Check resistance from the starter to the + battery post and terminal.
Try cranking it with the plugs out to see if it turns over easier, maybe you got some kind of liquid in the cylinders.
88 sports coupe... all is good, nothing in the cylinders. Its like iit will turn fine, has spark but no fire. If you bump the throttle to get gas into it, it bogs and turns over and strains. A few seconed later it will turn over fine again. I moved tie timing around after mrking where it was and no change. I really think it is the timing cain as I see no other alternitive to this
Re checked everything before I gave up today... still nothing. I have to assume it's something simple that I'm just not seeing. I'm debating just doing a new timing chain just to be safe and going with the MSD box while I'm at it. It's more variables but it's a better box that provides eaiser starting. Any more ideas at all? I'll even try to get a video up of whats it's doing if I see a freind tomorow. I really can't explane without sounding like I have no clue what i'm asking
i wish i were there. i love a good mystery. :)
i could not have said it better:D
same here except my smog pump. Threw my belt and my extra old one in the trunk.
Well if anyone has any idea left let me know
guys,
i just talked with fila,, he had a decent phone so i could hear the cranking issue he describes.
when no gas applied, it sounds great.
with gas applied car sounds exactly like its timing related. its cranking like its on the verge of backfire but recovers ,, then does this repeatedly.
The battery cables and the heat he described was misleading. The amount of time he cranked the car cause the cables to get warm and that IMHO is normal.
His no gas applied sound is like
rrrawawawawawawawawawa
His gas applied sound is like
rrrwawaw ,rrrwawaw,,rrrwawaw (while its doing this type of cranking, the battery and starter all sound really normal and strong with a noticeable delay in between irratic cycles)
My first thoughts whille hearing this was he best do a compression test cause that sounds like backpresure going down into the crankcase or up in the intake.
so,,,,,,, i have him check for vapor in intake looking in the carb. No vapor
so,,,,,, i have him check spark and he says its blueish silver
so,,, i also mention to him he might want to check the gear on the dizzy, he may not have the right center shaft on his dizzy and the gear possbily jumped on him.
so,, i have him check his timing chain slack using the harmonic and pointer as our ref. we find about [COLOR="Red"]23deg slack[/COLOR]. He may have a very sloppy chain.
On his DS2 600cfm carb setup, he has spark, fuel and air.
He claims his plugs were showing signs of running rich which leads me to believe he best check compression for cracked compression rings.
ive also told him to get compression numbers as well as do a leak down test on each cylinder to include valve seating. after hearing the car crank, im thinking its internal engine parts related.
What ever it is, It's now what kinda chain to get and should I do a cam while I'm already ass deep into the motor. Hell I might put the MSD on the car for when it's done.
I went to put my windows back up as it cooled off. I got curious and turned the key forward and to my supprise, the little bitch started right up. No fussing, no fighting. 2-5 turns of the starter and she is purring like a kitten. Checked the timing and it's at 11*. WTF? Did I miss something here. This stupid fighting with it for 4 days and it just starts up? I didn't mess with anything at all. And from scotts info I did the test wrong. It was 9* not 23*. I duno whats going on but reguardless now it's getting a new timing chain.
Double roller chain my friend.
Soon to be. It starts again and it's not like I drive it or anything. I just hate when the car throws a shiznit fit out of no where then suddely fix's itself out of no where
slack can also be caused by the dizzy gear or cam gear wearing. its not necessarily the chain.
basically, you need to have someome look at the car that knows wtf they are doing. listening over the phone, and diagnosing YOUR views seem to be out of the ballpark.
Thats another thing me and scott thought was the dizzy gear. Since the legnth difference of the old TFI/EFI dizzy was about 1/16" different the the duraspark dizzy, that could cause it. Eventualy it will have a MSD pro billet dizzy in it but untill then I'll just replace as I find out whats wrong.
At this point in time I am at a loss for words. I had a freind come over to look at the car, and it would nto restart. After JUST Looking around and not touching anything he tells me to turn it over and it starts. I turn itoff to see if it was a fluke and it doesn't start again. He gave up and I spent the last hour looking for a logical reason.. I just can't find one. It either runs or not
so all you did with it to get where you are is put a different coil on it? Is it a high performance coil?
MSD blaster 2. And it ran with it. It was just all of a suddon
do you have a voltage reducer wired in before the coil? When I changed mine to a ACCEL I had a similar problem and put a reducer in and that fixed the problem. If you don't you might give it a shot, they are pretty cheap and you can get them at any parts store.
I'll give it a try
Here is what mine looks like. Hope it helps.
:birdsmily: