More thinking out loud here, but CFI didn't work for me. Carb is g me off now as well. The current motor isn't staying in for ever. I also have access to a few 85 shortblocks that I can build up. What I ave or will have laying around is:
A flat tappet cam/lifters/push rods
New water pump
Timing cover
GT40 Heads
Explorer intakes/injecters/TB
Cam change gasket kit
Timing chain
Full set of bolts for the motor, but all stock
Most sensors from the Explorer
Is this a good start for an EFI motor? Just thinkin about doing the swap. Build the motor out of the car first then swap whole thing. Any feed back is nice. Haven't even started this yet, only in my mind. So direct me along here
I see who's seeing the light now finally...
Atleast I saw it man. You wana be part of tis great fun I'm thinking about?
Trying to fix that wiring nightmare in your car ain't my idea of fun. I'd find another car that's already EFI and then go nuts with MAF and a cam & heads.
Got to find another car first. I can bearly handle the mess I started now. I'll probaly just build up the motor and look at it. Worst case I can swap into the vic for some fun and use the Vic's roller block as a carb build up plan
After really thining this out, the way the car is setup now I may as well keep it carb. I'll just build up the new motor for carb insted of EFI. Same basic idea though, build it right the first time, no more half-assin projects and taking shortcuts. Thats whats killing me with the current motor
Mikey to go EFI it really wouldnt be that hard as far as the wiring is concerned. If you havent already check out this website (http://"http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=5"). The hardest part of the wiring would be the tach and other sensors but most of that wiring would stay with the car. It is very common in older hot rods that do a H.O. EFI swap to use the wiring harness from mustangs. You would just have to make sure you have the proper firing order on the cam which if you are going with an H.O. EEC would be the 351W firing order.
I have seriously thought about doing this and swapping my old SO into my 1980 Celica after a rebuild on it. But it is your car and if you want to keep it carb that is your decision to make. Sorry for rambling. Anyway i just thought i would throw my $.02 at you.
I think carb would be easy because I have everything to do here now. Even most to set up the new HO I'm scoring for $200 once i go get it. I want EFI as it's SOO much eaiser to set up then carb. Then again carb is easy once it's dialed in, only so much can go wrong with a carb. One sensor or code and EFI goes nuts. I'll hold out on EFI for now till I get an EFI car to start with. Then it's just changing what I want for more power/economy
EFI is not easier than setting up a carb if you have to go through all that wiring BS. If you want to build a bad ass 302, and keep it simple.. pick up an edelbrock carb and Victor Jr intake. thats what i've got in my bronco with a mild cam and a little port work and that thing has powaaaa, lol
I had an ebelbrock on it. I just went to a 600 holley. I'm thinking of dropping a Demon 650 on the new motor when I build it. That and my soon to be SVO meduim riser intake. Matched with GT40 heads, good cam, posable roller rockers. Should be an intresting setup that should get me more power. A number I'm not sure yet but sure as hell better then what I got
My point was there really is not alot of wiring BS. The only wiring not taken care of with a harness out of a mustang is the wiring for the gauges. Like this harness (http://"http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=4"),which is basically a substitute for the mustang harness, hook up 3 wires and plug the connectors in and fire it up.
It is still your decision Mikey and thats fine that you want to go carb, I just wanted it to be known that the wiring is not that bad as far as getting the engine running. Of course its not necessarily that simple for people that dont have electrical schooling.
I removed ALOT of extra witing from underhood when I went carb. Since the cars wiring was just about gone when I got it, I romoved everything it didn't need to run. All I have underhood now is horn, lights and duraspark. I'll hold out till next year when I might have another car to put a 5.0 in.
There is no wiring "BS"... If you get a SEFI harness out of an 86 it will require near no modification to interface with your car. The wiring you removed doesn't matter as it was all stuff that would come out anyway. The 86 harness uses all old style connectors that are of the same type as your car. Most would require repining but not the same modifications an 87 or 88 harness would.
I've got an 86 harness for my 83 if I can bring myself to do more than remove the air cleaner lid.
Grab fuel lines out of an 86 to 88 v8 car, the 86 will have the fuel filter in the same spot as your cars efi pump and filter. The 86 and 87 lines will run near the passenger tail pipe but still out of harms way. The 88 lines move to the center of the car under the passenger seat and run strait back to the tank. Even though all three year fuel lines are different any of them will work.
The whole process is nearly bolt in minus a few wiring modification that can be figured out by any monkey with a wiring diagram. Everyone cries when SEFI wiring comes to their plate. A ford wiring harness for the engine can be run with 3 or 4 wires. The rest go to the dash for sensors.
the point i was trying to get across is.. if it already has a carb on it, it'd be easier to stick to a carb.
yeah really!
Now that its running,, im curious as to why your not happy.
You might actually have a problem your not aware of. LIke the other day when you called me about dialing in your carb. Next thing i knew, you posted a thread saying you found two vac lines not hooked up. Little things like that which your not aware of make the difference between night and day.
Now that your coming around to being comfortable with the car world in general smf technical, and i know your anxious to tear open a motor, Id suggest you master what you have and then move on. It wont take but maybe the next couple months to fine tune what you have working on it here and there. Once you master it, you'll be even more of a contributor here than you already are because your a do'er kind of person.
Some good advice,,, do the following
Do a compression check and toss up the numbers here
What heads do you have on now?
Intake style
Fuel pump rating
fuel pump presure
exhaust size
header type
Carbs are worth atleast 20hp just as a bolt on,, cant beat that with any single EFI bolt on.
Why do you think the new Boss 302 is carb'd?
Besides, we need a few carb guys around, they are getting fewer far between nowadays and i feel like time is eating up the knowledge base. No one says you have to stay carb'd, its up to you. I can see it appears to be a lonely world when your carb'd cause many of the topics here are EFI based so there isnt much to say sometimes if all you know is carb. Its pretty stright foward stuff. Knowing both sides is practical and applicable to any vehicle made yesteryear or current.
Its time to get some testing tools also,, must have.
its time to get an evtm as well.
Compression check soon
Stock ?D7? heads
E3 casting, allumnium 4 barrel intakemanifold for a 84-5 carbed mustang
Stock in tank pump on an 84
Aproxx 6PSI
2.5"
Mac equal lecnth shorties
I didn't know there was a 302 Boss that WASN'T carbureted!?
Well as it seems I'll be starting the new buildup on the Fila motor to go in soon. My not be anything too speical or unique but better then whats in it. Any guess on power oputput from the new motor? anything over 140 and I'd be happy
Not to poop in your Cherrios....but do you actually OWN this car yet?
In the prosess of transfering it now.
Myself, If I were you..I'd go with the efi setup. Easier to keep tuned, better cold weather starts, etc etc.
plus, it's a sight harder to have forced induction on a carb engine, and keep it tuned.
Not a lot of work to drop in the efi 5.0 and the required wiring to run it.
Hell, people put 'em in cars that came out before a 302 was anything more than a number between 301 and 303. :D
As of now, the plans are...
Same E3 stang 4 barrel allumnium intake, maybe alittle porting
600 Holley 4160
GT40 heads
stock 85 cougar shortblock
Mac equal length headers
FRPP gasket kit
Factory allumnium water pump
Holley blue fuel pump with regulater
*maybe* full roller rockers used
possable MSD dizzy with MSD, if not stock duraspark
did i piss you off in a past life or this life:D
But common,, what else can you bolt on for the price to horsepower ratio gain that compares to a carb?
i was comparing the NEW BOSS vs why they went with carb today instead of EFI,,, anyone wonder why they did that? Prob because its easier to make hp with a carb and lots of it. Its 2007 and the new boss has a carb,,hummffff,,, go figure.
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=24698
with duel quad's:D
http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2006/boss-302-crate-engines-coming-in-2007/
foose put one in a 69 mach back earlier this year. Im surprised no one remembers that.
windsor style heads????? boo hoo!!!! where is the boss relation other than the 4 bolt main block. the real boss then and now is the boss 351! the streets were pretty mean back in the muscle era.if you drove a boss 302 back then you were probably pretty low on the food chain. any z28 or 340 powered car would make your night miserable. if you drove a boss 429 you probably felt safe and smug until you stopped at that light. that big ugly road runner with the flat black hood and scoop with 440 something on it suddenly made you sweat. you decide to show him whose boss. green . you sidestep the clutch and floor that big shotgun,blue cresent hemi only to watch those sqare tail lights moving away. your first thought is how those guys at mopar are so generous with their wheelwells. those boots are big. so was the one you just got in the ass! youre a cat motoring along in your boss 351 when some bowtie hero in his new generation 70 and one half z28 starts stalking you. you stop at that same light which has been so cruel to you.you look over and its the same dude that dusted you off in his 302 z. now hes got a new version and so do you.payback time,you hope. green, you ease the clutch and stomp. he pulls on you at first,then those big canted valves do their thing. a few pulls of the flawless shifter and that chevy gets small through that flatback window. now to find that mopar!
So about that poweroutput for the Fila guess:D ;)
you cant guess power,, time to accept that. it has to be measured while your building the engine with liquid and various measurements using a dial indicator, caliper with depth guage, ect.
or,,
dyno machine which uses a strain guage.
I don't have either. I know it will be better then what I got but how much better? Even a ballpark guess is ok. I was hoping for 200 HP maybe. More is better, but I could live on 200
its interesting you say that because i was just now looking into my tech articles on http://www.fordmuscle.com but my subscription has long expired.
They did that very thing easily.
the used teh fuel pump as the main event sensor by locating the little indent you usually see on the top portion of the diaphram. They drilled that out and inserted a nipple fitting. This fitting was ran up to whatever gizmo that activates or diverts the air from non-blower to blower. You guys know what i mean , im not good at that stuff yet.
anyway,, as the mechanical fuel pump is chugging away,, a vac pres is detected on the upper half of the mechanical fuel pump. this is used as a ref vac presure or whatever to activate a blower.
from that point, a hood is fab'd up that bolts over the carb instead of the traditional air cleaner.
the hood looked exactly like the demenions you would see on a TC 2.3 turbo.
this was an impressive project to them and if they were impressed, i have to be. these guys at fordmuscle.com dont mess around and arent very biased.
So, a carb can be blown or turbo'd.,, i dont see why they cant.
i would have to say that with the piece parts you listed,, ill bet everyone will agree that the intake needs more elbow room. the rest looks like you are in for more power. You have to plug in the numbers for the cc rating on the heads and each cylinder.
you have to plug in numbers for air flow and intake runner size ect.
the basic car math formula can be done based on stock configurations so that might be a good place to start.
Nick knows all bout that airflow stuff and theories. Just take advice and run with it.
thunderchicken seems to pull car math outta nowhere so maybe he can help or anyone else who has that stuff in memory.
So far, the only thing really new from my current setup is a lower mile short block and the GT 40's. I duno how much if any you can port the intake. I will have someone port the exhaust bumps out of the heads though. The MSD box is on the way too, dizzy is down the road
he said NEW Boss 302
you're right, even though i despise ALL fuel injection.. carb's don't change their air-fuel ratio when the weather and conditions change. fuel injection does, giving it a 14:1 air/fuel ratio at all times.
I don't know why you're determined to use that Mustang intake. A good aftermarket aluminum one can be had for less than $200. And what cam are you planning to use? Not much point in all these superior parts if you're planning to keep the SO cam.
Agreed the stock cam sucks mega balls..
You've got to have a solid plan before you jump into it.
Wow! This one went all over the place.......
I myself am partial to EFI because I have more experience with it. When a car don't act right and it's fuel related I have a much better idea what to do to get it right as opposed to carb. Seemed I was always researching with my carbed car and NEVER retaining the information in my head. I just prefer EFI.
As far as the Carb Vs. EFI debate, read: http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=6691.0
Also Fila ditch that stock cam and go with something like this for some more get up and go: http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=31-255-5
You can get it in either roller or flat tappet.
your best bet, go to a performance shop and tell them what you're looking to do. they will help you pick a cam, intake, and everyting else.