Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

I just wondered with all us car buffs, is anyone into NASCAR?
Who are your fave drivers?

No.. Hate it.

I'll watch NAStyCAR if there's no other racing on. I prefer ALMS and Grand AM over just about anything else right now. F1, indycar and champcar are all good too. NAStyCAR has just ruined the racing by trying to make it a show instead of a race.
 
There are a few drivers I like, though. Tony Stewart just because of his incredible ability. Kasey Kahne and Ryan Newman I used to watch running Spint cars, as well as Stewart.

I enjoy NASCAR a lot.  Petty Racing is my favorite team, but since its drivers have no chance to win a race, I also root for Greg Biffle and some of the other Roush guys.

:stupid: Silly "Non Athletic Sport Created Around Rednecks"!!! Give me open wheel racing over that any day, Indy, Cart, F1, heck even Le-mans.

I like Nascar :D  Although I really enjoy watching the Grand Am Series and the Austrailian V8 Supercar series and just about any other form of racing, including Off-road. I like the Roush guys, Kahne, Martin, and a few others.

Sorry guys, don't care to much for the F-1/IRL type cars, don't like the "I'm the only one that makes things happen" attitude most of them have. How many of those guys do you ever hear of thanking the crew, the Fans, None! Good example -> Juan Pablo, he needs to go back to the IRL. His attitude stinks!

I like stock car racing, if it has to be on an oval. So naturally I hate NASCAR.

Tarmac and Dirt Rallies for the win. Pretty much anything on a road course.

Incredible ability at what?  Wrecking people then crying about how it was their fault because they raced next to him for a lap?  :flame:

I watch NASCAR, but I'm nowhere near as interested in it as I was when I was younger.  My fav driver is Matt Kenseth.

I rarely watch a NASCAR race anymore.

I wish SPEED could come to an agreement with the WRC and bring that series back on TV.
I think that WRC drivers are the most talented in the world.

Brent
:cougarsmily:

I sometimes watch the cars go round and round a few times, then I get bored and go do something else, like prep my car for real drag racing or watch paint dry.

no

Skittles in a toilet...


WRC, NASA, SCCA, F1, local Sprint Cars, PNW Rally, etc, etc. But I don't watch much (any) TV, so I usually just go watch them live.

I used to watch it until Nextel took over. It hasnt been the same since. My fav. driver used to be Rusty Wallace. But since he retired now, I really dont have a fav. driver.

Ok guys, I was asking for a reason...... silly boys!

I don't care for it myself, but I have an opportunity to get some NASCAR stuff and since I won't really use it, I thought I might throw it in for the Chinese Auction at CJ. I just wanted to see if it was worth doing or not.


So, let me know if you would like that sort of thing. (If not, please just don't say anything in this thread, I just need to know how many would be interested) You can start a thread to knock it all ya want LOL;)

Well, in that instance, by all means do it. There are always a few people who enjoy it, and I'm sure that they would like that as a prize. Conversely, if someone wins it that doesn't like it, they could just trade someone or what-nots.

bill elliot was my favorite driver, until he retired. i started rooting for him in the early 80's, before he became popular, because he was one of the few ford drivers in the field, and about the only one that ran towards the front on a regular basis.

as for racing, i am a fan of the sport regardless of form with one exception, demolition derby.

well just to let you in on how much i enjoy NASCAR, i went to NASCAR Technical Instetute.  im prolly the only person here that has a nascar tech parking sticker in the windshield of my bird.  im set to rock and roll to griffin tech (ga) b/c i couldnt afford living in NC goin to that school.  i eat, sleep and drool nascar.  i have one of the largest collections of nascar memorbilia that i could prolly make a couple grand on ebay if not more.  i have enough juicy old mint earnhardt sr stuff that would melt a earnheardt's FACE off.  you can call it this you can call it that, call it whatever you want.  stewart is calling nascar out by saying that they are trying to control the races by the "debree" cautions.  it might be happening it might not be.  mark my words, i'll make it to nascar, b/c if atlanta based on shane clanton from the home town track im from as well can make it to nascar, i sure as hell can and im going to school to build my own cars to climb the ladder.  its a 10 year plan since im only almost 22.

you know people can have thier opinions, and a lot to a lot of people stink.  but right now nascar is going through a phase and its sorta ruining this year.  its made this year interesting with the cot cars b/c its a boat compaired to the cotoday, but it'll come around.

earnhardt jr is leaving DEI at the end of the year, the grape vine says that he's ganna run for rcr (richard childress racing, same team sr died racing for) and is going to either run a budweiser select scheme, wrangler scheme, or even the gm goodwrench scheme with the number 3.

http://www.jayski.com  if you like nascar thats the site for you.  it has rumors basically about up coming events in nascar between nascar itself and individual car owners, teams and so forth.  they're long readers but they are profetic.  my first teacher at NTI was working on kyle petty's engine program, they were reaching for that 500 mark on a restrictor plate motor.  they sgot 515 or so, the next week he tells his sponsors the reason he's not running well is b/c his engine program.  his engine program was doing VERY VERY WELL. but he had to lie to his sponsor to cover up his lack of driving skills.  so my teacher from nti got shafted when he got fired.  thing was they all knew it was happending b/c they looked on jayski's site and 3 months before it was shut down it said pety were ganna shut them down.  they scratched they're heads sayin nah, never woul happen.  3 months later they're on the curb.

annnnyway.  nascar is an aquired taste just like open wheel racing.  i'd rather have fenders i can beat on the competition with than have nothing but procariously important things just sitting there for any juan pinball pablo montoya to bounce off of ruining your day.  and i hate watching f1 b/c its fallow the leader.  you rarely EVER see overtaking, where at a nascar race, there could be 3 or 4 lead changes a lap, on restrictor plate races, there could be 20 lead changes but only one counts and thats at the line.

i dont see cars going roundy round.  i've raced an oval in a pony stock car (rwd 4 banger no power adders) and my dad raced hobby and sportsman.  i know what to look for.  i see that guy getting loose off 4 before anyone notices it on tv or even if they notice it at all.  i see the lines they take, i can calculate in my head the chances of who's ganna pass who eventually in 10 laps by what line, speed and laptimes they're making.

its like being a turntablist, you gotta know what your doing, otherwise it seems boring or like a cat getting killed.

two weezy zone.

btw, nascar transmissions dont have helical gears cuts or syncronizers.  they have dog gears, or spur gears.  so in other words, if you have a nascar jasper or pretty much any nascar transmission, it'll have dog gears.  this means you cant put the clutch in and ride out the momentum of a car with a jasper spur gear transmission b/c each gear will not go into gear unless the clutch has been engaged and the gears rev matched.  in other words, when you come to a stop from 5th gear, you'd have to downshift through every gear to get to 1st.  it is not at alllllllllllll road friendly. also the engines want to run at higher rpms, so also they're not streetable either.

Amen.  I'm a huge fan..........and if I didn't have any kind of commitments here when I made my choice in a school, I would have gone to NTI in a heartbeat and tried my edest to get on a team.  My dad's boss's son made it onto the pit crew of a Nextel team....I envy him......lucky SOB.....

I dislike NASCAR only because it sort of betrays its own namesake.  If I'm not mistaken, back in the day, the cars were actually very similar to the off-the-lot models a person could actually purchase.  Nowadays they're all tube chassis with a plastic body shell, only barely resembling the cars they're supposed to represent.  That's my only beef with NASCAR.  And no, I don't think they should actually be out there racing Ford Tauruses, that'd be.. well, slow.  I just can't get into NASCAR, I guess.

I like NasCARS.

I HATE Nascar.

The only type of racing I like is in this order.

1. Drag Racing    Going to be Doing this more soon :]
2. Rally Racing    I might get into this in Colorado
3. 24 Hour Closed Circuit Racing  Haha I don't think I will ever actually do this myself

Must be a Gordon fan in disguise.
 
Go back and watch the races again. If you race Tony clean, he'll give you all the room you need. Bump him and you can expect to get bumped back.

Yeah, just like the 500 in 06 when Matt was up high on Tony and Tony got aero loose.  What did he do?  Sent Matt through the grass at 190mph and he almost got nailed in the driver's side door (translation:  Could've been a serious crash cause of his stupidity).  If you race Tony HARD, he gets all pissy and just wrecks whoever did it.  He expects the red carpet treatment.  Man I'll never forget that race...that was the biggest bs I've seen since the infamous duel between Earnhardt and Terry Labonte at Bristol many years ago...

UGH!!! :rolleyes:

n/m, I'll start a different thread.

hahahaha, I see you made the new on a poll

When they actually start racing STOCK cars again, I might start paying more attention than I used to.
My dad thinks it's the best thing since electric choke and hydraulic clutches...but he's also stuck in the past.

Yates had a  good idea about modernizing the engines in Cup, but Nextcar (nascar nextel, play on words) has decided to make these NOT STOCK CARS wider and safer...hmmm, safety's a good thing...how about spec engines though?
Here's a thought...how about more stockish types of cars!?

I just feel really sour on nascar anymore....more rules than anything.
Bring back the real racing....fender beat in...bump draftin'.....heh.

I've been a fan for a long time. Ever since I was about 5. I still hit the races when they're in town but don't watch much if any of it on tv anymore. I really don't care for all the changes they've made over the past 7 years or so but it won't go back to what it used to be so no sense in complaining.

I really like Cascar though. The Canadians have it right. The cars look soo much better than both current Nascar cars that are running. They remind me of the early mid 90's cars that just looked more like a factory car with ground effects.
(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9716/untitledjw6.jpg)

Yeah I watched a Cascar race not long ago and it was good ol' short track bumpin-n-banging.  Very enjoyable.

well i see some of you have it all wrong about nascar and the name sake stock car racing.  in 1983 (just to put it in our own perspective) till 1988/89 the hood, greenhouse, and trunk all had to be factory sheet metal and it couldnt be altered except they could take all the structure  out from under the hood and trunk.  everything else was hand rolled sheet metal on an english wheel.  they've been hand making cars for at least 25-30 years now.  and they dont use composite materials.  nascar is forcing them to put a composite impact absorbing material in the doors, and they have that carbon kevlar splitter and wing on the back now.  otherwise, just like way back, the car is still 100% sheet metal.  now cascar on the other had has 100% composite fiberglass/ carbon-kevlar bodies that nascar has allowed on the track at infinion and other road courses that was cheaper to build a car for that race b/c they bolted the bodies on, not built it out of sheet metal.  a nascar racecar wouldnt be one if it didnt have a full roll cage, and a cage denotes anything that would make a NASCAR car similar to anything STOCK.  our t-birds use a unibody correct?  go to a musium that has an 87-88 car and have your self a look, the body is for show, whats really there is a monotube chassis that they've been doing since the late 70's if not even longer.  infact in aerobird era chevy had to sell 500 monte carlo aero coupes to make up the difference (it had a longer rear window) between the chevy greenhouse and the aerobird greenhouse.  the only difference now adays is i will agree and say they dont look a piss or shiznit like an impala or monte carlo.  the newer monte carlo cars were based on nascar design, not the other way around as most of you can figure out.  if you respect anyone that can hand make a car that will race with the petal (brake OR gas) held down for 500 miles, you really need to respect every nascar car team who manufactures cars for a living. its art at it's top mechanical degree.  i'l prolly end up welding for a nascar team in a couple years, thats my lil niche.  but i plan on racing the whole way there.

oh and NTI is a waste of money.  i had to pay over 30,000 dollars for regular training that you get at any tech school accross the country that has an automotive degree or classes.  they tell you at NTI you wont get any training like this in the world which is a lie.  the only thing that makes it different is while your in school your surrounded by N an A also an S with a C another A and last bot not least the R.  i paid about 10,000 just for those letters, and i couldnt even put a nascar tech sticker on my back glass if i wanted to even though i paid for the nascar NAME.  its basically a dealership school where instead of working on normal equipment, your working on nascar equipment thats been used.  my first class we worked on 350's that were decommissioned from race teams.  we were learning how to measure bores and cams and out-of-rounds and such with dial bore guages, ****ed up t guages with micrometerss... that was just the first class.  but then as you progress you realise they've told you not to contact a nascar team, if you do you will be suspended.  your working on nascar JUNK in reality.  your basically alienated from everything nascar to learn how to work on a dealership. NTI is a rip off. a  good school, but not worth the 30,000.  that didnt even include the over the wall class.  now i have about 10-15K in loans and going to griffin tech i can take 4 years of classes with what i have left over from a course that was 13 months long.  they also press on you that you could work for porsche or mercedes.  porche takes 27 people a year from all UTI camcoochs in the whole states.  thats like 1 or 2 from each place.  mercedes takes about 300 people.  i would have been one of those if my rent didnt get late, my car blowing a trans coolant line, and my roomates being dicks making me late or leave without me without saying they're leaving... i just didnt have any support to get to school after my car blew the lines out, so i had to drop out and to my suprise i can go anywhere and get equal or better training.  i figure im ganna go in for the rest of the automotive classes, with the money left over im ganna take metal joining and geometry along with whatever else i can find that'll help me build a monotube chassis thats PERFECT.

sorry for my rant about NTI, bc if your ganna go to UTI, go to NTI it is the best school uti has.  better than hot rod U, better than all of the other uti spotlights.  i mean where else in the world can you work on a modified 3 speed that was meant for a road course with the name "jasper" on the side of it?  i mean i found out that they dont run helical gears in them, spur gears meaning they have to downshift to 1st coming into the box or it wont go into gear without the main shaft rotating.



btw, if your cryin over spilled nascar sheetmetal milk where one guy bumps another guy, grow up, be a man, and realize when it comes down to winning a race and being famous and having your name in record books for a long long time as the winner of whatever nascar race.... if your chasing first you'll knock every loving hour of paint and body work off your car to win.  every driver is out there like that, the ones that whine have some body guy after you wantin you to pipe up about how tony stewart tore the side of your car off when infact you were using that side of the car to stop tony, but tony drove right through you and won.  now your 130,000 dollar car would be considered totaled and you get 2nd place's bounty if tony didnt feel like putting you in the wall.

Wow... well this is getting rather out of hand.

I was talking about the 60's era stock cars, but I really know nothing of the history of the sport, just thought that a whole hell of a lot of 'em looked like they were more 'stock' than they are now.  That is all.

its an illusion.  even in the 60's they took stock sheetmetal and hand crafted them to fit the monotube chassis they were building.  the only diffference between now and then is a sort of poetic licence.  instead of running a monte carlo, you could run the same year buick or pontiac.  it didnt really matter b/c the chassis' were so similar (yet specifically different b/c no 2 people have the same set of finger prints)  they didnt make sheetmetal like they did in latter years, so in the 60's they hand rolled the stock fenders and cut the wheel wells so the tires looked like they fit (although its like putting 4 winged outlaw RR wheels on each corner and they gotta be tucked in the fenders. think of all of that work gettin those tires in a 8*~ aero coupe.)  also belive it or not, even into the earrrrly 90's they still used WOOD in the structure of the body, prolly "soft" mounting points on the chassis.

Did I have a choice? LOL



Walks away thinking.... men can never follow directions! :flame: :beatyoass:

i feel like the odd man out. i'm a die hard back woods roundy round racer. i live for nascar.i'm old enough to remember the glory days of the stock car. when i was little was the days of the richard petty david pearson chrysler hemi vs the boss hemi. then the eighties came and the car evolved into a modern safe race car. aero became a very important factor. the cars became high tech. it was no longer a back woods endeavor but a multi million dollar operation. so the stock car hasn't been stock for 30 years but as the car got better so did the racing. dale earnhardt sr. was the man. he was my favorite driver from 1979 on. but with his passing so goes the old ways. change is good. that is why i actually like the COT. they blast a hole in the air like the cars of the eightys. i can't wait till the fall race at talladega we will see something that we haven' seen in years, the slingshot pass. well enough of the ponderings of a simple florida readneck. and yes sweet home alabama is the redneck national anthem.

what i would like to see in cup racing, is nascar making the drivers actually drive the cars again. they want a single body template? fine i dont care. but i say take away all the modern areo devices, and let them have what the guys in the early to mid 70's had. a 2" front air dam that was about half the width of the car, and a 2" rear spoiler that ran the width of the rear deck lid. then get rid of the restrictor plates used at daytona and talledega. then you will see real racing again where chassis setup and driver skill win the day, along with who makes the best pit stops and avoids trouble.

While I definitely agree with you, rbohm, I unfortunately dont see that happening.  It would be awesome though.

Nah, it's not crying.  It's called having integrity.  If I was a race driver, I wouldn't feel like I had proved ANYTHING if I wrecked everyone on my way to victory.  Think about it, what DOES that prove?  It sure as hell doesn't prove that that person is a good driver because he/she couldn't pass people without sending them flying into the wall.  Bumping and grinding is awesome and fun to watch; no problem there.  Wrecking?  That's just dumb.  It puts lives in more danger than if they werent wrecking, and it just doesnt prove a thing about his or her driving skill. 

Back when my dad raced at a local track, there was a race on my birthday, and my grandparents were down from New York, so everyone was there.  At the drawing before the race, I pulled out 2nd place for dad.  Goin into turn one, he had the lead.  And for the next 13 laps of the 15 lap event, it stayed that way.  Then 2nd place guy decided to send em to the wall comin out of turn 4, and won the race.  Was his car faster that day?  Probably.  Was he the better driver?  Hell no.  Good drivers PASS people.  Tracks have more than one lane for a reason.  If you want to wreck, do a demo derby.  If you're racing and you're faster than those ahead of you, pass them.  Show the world you can beat them without sending their cars pummeling into the wall.  That doesnt prove a  thing except that they cant race like men.  Like I said, bumping and grinding is great.  That's what sets stock car racing apart from the open wheel stuff.  But nudging someone is A LOT different than wrecking someone.

And for the record, Stewart is the WORST cry baby when he gets wrecked (even Stewart fans I know admit this), so that ruins your whole point anyway.  He has no problem dishing it out, but man, he can't take it AT ALL.  I always look forward to his interviews after he gets wrecked.

Angel, the thread asks who likes NASCAR. You can't get upset that people bit the topic. It's one of those love it or hate it topics too, so it'll go like wildfire. ;) You should have just started with the CJ gifts as the topic.

Being that love it or hate it topic, and considering we're all driving domestic RWD coupes, half of which were actually racing in NASCAR when there were still stock parts on the cars, I'd say these pieces of memorobilia are a safe bet. :)



Walks away thinking...., women keep thinking they can ask one thing and get an answer to another.

I like NASCAR but I also enjoy any motor racing. 
But let’s not forget though ford engineered our aero coupe NASCAR had allot of help w/it especially the body kits
Let’s also not forget the quickest lap time at Daytona raceway is set by a 1987 t-bird.

meh, you kinda over blew my point.  i meant bumping and grinding.  this is more like what i meant.

when dale earnhardt is on your ass for 5 laps, playing hide and seek and bumpin your rear quarter.  he's either ganna pass you or go through you.  so most people thought when he was on thier ass "how do i let this guy around me before he aggrivates me to death?"  in 1987 all star race, bill elliot had a dominating car.  won the first 2 of 3 races.  dale dug up all the way to bill and ended up infront of bill.  you see dale was a dynamic driver, he wouldnt give you an inch and if you GAVE him and inch, he didnt respect you.  so when he was runing with bill and bill tried to wreck him 3 times but earnhardt still won the race...  bill never touched a wall he just got all pissy about how he got on the outside of dale (like a DUMBASS) and got his right sides cut down b/c dale was laying on him through turn 3, he whimpered and moaned and complained about how dale ****ed his race up.  wah wah wah.  dale didnt wreck him, ask terry lebonte in 1995 at bristol what it's like when dale wrecks someone on the last lap.  but still bill was all defensive and rattled up like a baby toy.  it was hilarious.  bill's explaination was he had to go home and fix his 87 bird, while dale just sat around and let people fix it for him.  thats a ****in LIE b/c AWESOME BILL FROM DAWSONVILLE was so dominating in the past years he had the money, if not MORE than dale or RCR and the only reason a driver even in that time to work on a car, is b/c he cant afford to pay anyone to do it for him... or! he just like to do it.

btw, when i was racing my pinto at the newly reopened senoia race way (asphault) my car lasted a season.  i had to keep rebuilding the car over and over (the body anyways) b/c there were these 2 brothers that brawled and always got either good picks or on the nights southern outlaws or southern allstars were there, they'd always qualify better than me.  so here i am in my nicely fixed and painted car trying to go from about 5th or 6th through the founce brothers, my car would get knocked around like a pinball.  i never finished a race behind the 2 brothers, but my car always looked like it. i won 2 races, the rest of my finishes were top 5's untill the finale that ended with my car T boning a car coming out of turn 2 into the sun.  he had spun ut and backed to the wall, when i got there all i saw was the sun, and then i ran into the sun! WTF.  i was wide open in hot laps and that hit killed both cars.  as for my dad, he was a line backer for a guy he was working with to get the track championship (which he did) now my dad wouldnt wreck you, he'd just put you high in the  so mike could get by the guy and win.  rubbing and banging not wrecking.  well my dad's reputation followed him to sportsman and he was running an old 70's darrel waltrip chassis.  it was WAY too heavy compaired to the 90's sportsman chassis he was driving against.  so he was a lapper and before he even got his engine running right, some jackasses decided to go 3 wide off of 4 and ended up making my dad bounce off the inside wall jump roger delp's front AND rear tires he left the ground.  he FLEW down half the streight away and backed it into the wall while all the other guys, virtually unhurt (car wise) end up in turn one all spun around with little body damage.  my dad said when he saw the flag man face to face he closed his eyes, and when he landed he expected to be backed up into a couple race cars and trailors and people in the infield (he thought he went over the inside wall) but the right rear tire was aggainst the back of his seat... just to let you know how bad his end of the deal was.

i didnt find out till later, but he paid a kid that was in sportsman whatever damage went to his car and 500 on top of that to wreck delp.  well the very next weekend, he did the exact same thing as my dad, only it was going into turn 3.  totaled his car out just as bad as my dad's was.

oh btw, yeh your right about tony lol, i kinda forget about that time he got fined 10 or 15K for not talking to the press.  he wouldnt be cryin but he'd be name callin.  what i've noticed is the only drivers that complain are guys that need to run good, that are running good, or hit a wall hard enough even the safer barrier still made them hurt.

"when i saw the wall comin i sucked up a good breath.. i had my eyes closed but i wasnt hittin the wall yet, so i decided to try and get one more lil bit of air and right when i started to breathe in... BAM"  that will piss you off.

im a clean driver.. but you piss me off and i'll rough up your fethers.  i wont turn you around or put you in the wall, but i'll leave my mark on you.  roger delp was a guy that would wreck you just because... because why?  he's roger delp.  posmf

exactly, the aerobird comunnity owes nascar for the shape of our cars. and btw, he didnt set the record at daytona it was talledega, 213.~~mph average.  never been beaten.  prolly doin 260 on the back streight and having to hit the brakes and cut it like darlington.

It wasn't in 87. It was in 86' with a 4 eyed bird. I have an article in the 87 FMS catalog with the info in it. If I can get my scanner to work right, I'll post that fact.

That wasn't in a 87' bird, it was in a 86' 4-eyed bird. If I can get my scanner to work right, I'll post the article out of the 87' FMS catalog the talks about it.

I didn't mind Earnhardt when he was just bumpin people, but I didnt get sucked up in the hype machine.  Him wrecking people was the same as anyone else in my mind.  One of my all time favorite NASCAR moments was at Pocono when Jeremy Mayfield (still in the #12 Mobil 1 car) nudged Earnhardt out of the way to win on the last turn of the last lap, and when he was interviewed he said "I just rattled his cage."  That was THE BEST!!!  I'm not a Mayfield fan but that was just sweet revenge.

:pics-stfu: lol.

this is from talladega's home website.



source: http://www.talladegasuperspeedway.com/track%5Finfo/history/

actually bill elliot set records at BOTH daytona and talledega.

hmm, i didnt know that, im enlightened.  but was it official?  i mean i dont wanna go lookin in my nascar fact books (b/c he set said record pre "modern era" so it'll prolly be hard to find out post nextel.)  i heard he ran an unrestricted engine on either daytona or talledega that instantly made nascar enforce the restrictor plate rule.  i remember i saw an 86 race and elliots car stood out from a lot of the other t-birds.  in 86, his header panel looked a LOT like the 87-88 header panel/grill.  i mean it was distinctly square and 4 eyes but it just seemed to be rolled more into a shape like the 87-88.  i swear a lot of those cars as far as the grills, header panels and stuff like that, some low budget teams used OEM parts... where as elliot had the money to "modify" the grill and make it out of sheet metal.

the thing most people don't know is that earnie elliot took 5/8" out of the center of the car. nascar never caught it. the car was so fast because it was narrower than the other cars

NASCAR pretty much lost me as a fan. Now with the COT and Toyota I don't watch anymore. Seems to me Ford has pretty much abandoned their effort anyway. If it wasn't for Roush, the Fords might as well not even show up. I was one of the few fans that followed the cars and not the drivers. The driver's have no loyalty to a specific brand, they just follow the money. I don't blame them, I blame NASCAR for making it that way. One big commercial. Last race I went to was the Pepsi 400 before it went to a night race. You were still able to buy a ticket for $25 on the backstretch. Now tickets are through the roof!
When Ford dropped the T-Bird that was the beginning of the end for me. I like watching classic races on Speed, at least you could tell the difference between the cars.

Off my soapbox now.

elliot won the pole position for the daytona 500 at 210 and change. it was 1987 the same year he won teh pole at talledega at 212 and change.

lol darrel waltrip used bird shot lead to drop weight on the pace lap.  they'd fill the right side of the car with the right amount of lead, and as soon as they hit the track right before the green lap, he'd pull or push something that opened the right jack stand end. (the lil post they put on the side of the chassis for the jacks) what was so genious about that is when the officials would look for the "trick" they'd have to jack the car up on that very post, so they never got caught for it untill they sold those chassis and the person whol bought them said "hey nascar, look at this."

some people like to see nascar stay an american sport. but the fact of the matter is, with toyota, montoya, redbull, etc etc and the COT, the busche race in mexico, a fabled race to happen in canada, nascar is obviously leaning twards internationality... which will make nascar.. or iascar.. HUGE.  it will make F1 and champ-car look like a dot in the sky.  mark my words. :evilgrin:

I'd hate to tell you this (no I don't) but NASCAR will never become popular outside North America. Not even the Aussies would watch oval racing like that.

i'd hate to say this, but i will anyway? there are more international nascar fans than you think.  everyone i've ever talked to, no matter what forum, let it be a honda forum, mazda, bikes, dirt bikes, mustang, trucks, you name it.  when the nascar thread starts you have the haters, and to be honest they're all american or canadian.  all the other international members of such boards were pretty mcuh indifferent. they'd heard about it, seen clips, might have been able to watch a race a time or 2 on tv... but really they're cut off from watching it as much as we can.  you give them that option and F1 will go the ways of IRL and champcar.

They have the Touring Car Championship. I've never heard of a European oval racing fan.

thats b/c its backwoods just like the states.  same with australia, they run super winged outlaws and most of the time i've seen them, they run the oval clockwise... i HAD, it might be on my laptop, a picture of a winged outlaw on dirt pulling a wheelie to the bumper in the rear with the tires billowing white smoke.  oval racing is in all major countries that can afford it, in some sort or another.  in england they have some BAD ASS cars.  they look like hobby cars but run like open wheeled asphault modifieds.  they also run an old form of street stock, back when street stock didnt know the meaning of the yellow flag.  they race like pinto type small cars and they'll put 40 cars on the track and all it is, is bumper cars with a lap winner.  in australia they get pretty serious b/c i've never seen a backwoods oval car in australia with less cubes than a 350-351 unless its a race like the bumper cars i was talkin about.  oval racing is a lot larger than you think.