So I came home today and find a 351W sitting beside my garage, flywheel side down, the water pump pointing to the sky. It appears that the old guy that has the s metal lot where I was keeping the van until I could get around to taking the engine out, took the engine out. He's got somebody coming over to buy a bunch of s and figured the hulk of a long wheelbase E-350 would tip the scales a bit in his favour, so he rolled it onto its side, cut the engine/tranny/rear out, and smushed the body up with his front end loader. The only things salvaged were the full floating rear end, engine, tranny, radiator (was brand new), and one door he saved to try to sell. He actually saved the engine and tranny for me, but I had no use for an E4OD (bloody ENORMOUS transmission, and it had 400,000 km on it) so I told him he could have it for s. All I wanted was the engine and leaf springs (if I buy a Ford truck it'll get the springs). My brother wants the rad, as he had just bought it and can use it in his newer E250.
Questions begin now:
- Orange top injectors. What are they?
- Truck-style lower intake. Will anything decent bolt to it, or should I just give it to the s guy along with the upper?
- Will T-Bird 5.0 front accessories and brackets bolt to this engine? I think I had heard I'd need Mustang stuff, but not sure
- 351 Crown Vic oil pan - is it the right one for a Fox? I know the van pan certainly wouldn't fit...
- Is there any way to make that oil cooler work in a Fox? Looks to me like it would interfere with the steering rack where it's at.
And now the pics. It ain't pretty, by any stretch, but it will be eventually. I have to go back to the guy's place to get the tranny to engine bolts, so I can put the thing on my engine stand and work on it:
i wish i had an engine fairy
lol dont we all!
Orange tops are 19lbers
Truck injected lower is a good intake,holley systemax should bolt to it,if not sell it on ebay as a 351 injected lower(should be desirable).
Bird/coug acc won't bolt up as the block is taller than a 302,mustang acc are the same as a bird/coug.
Pretty sure your right on the crown vic pan,although i can't see why the 5.0L one won't work.
Pretty sure the cooler won't work,omly way would be to test fit it.
i think only a few of the brackets wont work check jegs they sell a sawp kit? with brackets i guess those are the ones that wont fit
the 351w lower efi intake is a weird oval port design. you're thinking of the 302 truck lower manifold. the alt bracket will bolt up, since it just bolts to the head. i know the 302 ac compressor/power steering bracket wont work, as it bolts to the head and water pump studs. the oilpan should work, and will not fit a 302, as a 351w is wider at the pan rails.
I know the 5.0 pan won't work because the 302 is different on bottom than a 351 (I think the 351 is wider). You sure a Holley Systemax intake would work on this lower? That alone could make the difference between going carbed and going EFI...
As for the accessory brackets, I was sure I'd read somewhere that Fox Mustang P.S. and A/C bracketry would be required - surely there must be something that I can bolt on to use a serpentine belt setup. I don't think that 351 van setup would fit in the car
IIRC the 351 efi lower has different ports than a 302 truck lower. Performance EFI 351 intakes are $$$. I'd just get a 4bbl and have some fun:D
Oh is it a roller 351?
its nowhere near the same. the ports are oval compared to 'holley's retangular'ish ports.
That's pretty much the plan, I think: Alloy heads, dual plane intake, 600-750 carb, and a cam that'll work with it all. Seems like a pretty cheap path to ~350-400 horses. This largely depends on the condition the engine is in when I take it apart, too - if it needs a crank and pistons it'll be a 393 stroker.
It
should be a roller - it's out of a '94, but I won't know for sure until it comes apart.
check the casting number above the starter. if it starts with "F4.....", its a roller block.
Will do tomorrow (crosses fingers)
Ford Racing makes an accessory swap bracket. Here's a link. (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Racing-M-8511-B351-Power-steering-AC-bracket-JEGS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46093QQihZ008QQitemZ180111351395QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V")
It's not that the oil pan wont fit because of the width, it is because of the difference in main bearing cap diameters.
Thats exactly what my motor looked like til I cleaned it up and painted it I didn't bother wasting paint on the stuff that is getting replaced though:
351W Fuel injection style intake manifolds:
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?RC=50&N=700+4294925239+4294839079+4294908331+4294840125+4294924761+4294822100+115&Ntt=&Ntk=&Ns=P_Rank%7C0&rsview=sku
Hey, I just lost a wisdom tooth, maybe the engine fairy and the tooth fairy can team up and bring me a 347 stroker short block?
Ya think? :D
they might have to knock the rest of your teeth out for that. ;)
Carm, as you may know, for around 150-170 bucks American, Summit and possibly Jegs sell 351w/Fox swap oil pans, comes with pick-up tube I believe.
Also, the 94 up blocks *should* me at least roller ready, if not roller period. As said, the F4 casting will tell for sure.
If you can find a used Lightning lower, and a GT-40 upper...you'd be in business..but, probably pricey as all hell.
just get a new '84-'85 Crown Vic pan, they work and are only like $100.
new 5.8 vic pans are like $60 us at autozone.
I looked today and it is indeed an F4 block. The casting number is extremely hard to make out (I've never seen so much scale rust on an engine block - must be because it was in a van) but the first four digits are definitely F4TE. I'm glad I was able to make it out before trying to se some of the scale rust off - as soon as I picked the flakes off the number disappeared completely!
I still haven't decided 100% if I'm gonna use this engine in the T-Bird. I am definitely going to rebuild it and it's definitely going to be a performance rebuild, but I might still go with the 5.0 in the 'Bird...
...Who am I kidding - once this thing's together we all know it'll be going into the 'Bird, especially if I end up stroking it. It'd be pretty hard to justify a 155-horse SO 5.0, or even an HO upgrade, when a ~400-horse 351 is sitting on the engine stand.
I am almost certain that I will be going with a carburetor, simply because of the cost of EFI. With a carb, it's basically a matter of an intake, a carb, and a distributor. With EFI it's a matter of finding an EFI 351 setup (at least $500), bigger injectors, a big throttle body, a large MAF, and a computer to run it all. Regardless of EFI or carb it'll be getting some TFS, Holley or Edelbrock heads (likely TFS, as the Twisted Wedge heads were the first I'd ever fallen in love with)
I actually think it'll be cheaper to do a carbed 351 than it would be to build my 5.0 into something respectable. I've already got the Fox-swap headers, it's like $60 for the AC & P.S. bracket, and about $60 for an oil pan. Combine that with the fact that the car would only be a weekend cruise machine and not a DD and the carb makes more and more sense.
sounds like a plan! FWIW, you can get a reman Scat 3.85" stroke(393) crank with new bearings off ebay for $250 shipped through performance crankshafts. another $300 for probe pistons, another $200~ for forged i-beams, and you have a good solid 10sec capable shortblock. id go with a super victor intake and a 850 demon. :evilgrin:
why not go with afr's?? and thats the motor i plan to run in my mustang once the lincoln gets done i want a 393
Believe it or not, I don't want a 10-second capable car. I'd be quite happy with low 12's. I think I could easily do it for under $2500 with a carbed 351, especially if the crank is OK - then I won't do a stroker. Fewer cubes, but I'll save a bunch of money. I don't think a 351 would be working too hard to push this car into the low 12's, and since I don't plan on revving it to the moon or using any kind of forced induction I think I could get away with stock rods. I'd probably spend the extra bucks for forged pistons if I end up needing to replace 'em (and with over 400,000 km on this engine, I almost certainly will) but other than that I don't think I need anything too exotic. Basically I want a lazy, low revving, very reliable torque monster :hick: Before anyone says it: I know a 429 or 460 would be even lazier, slower revving, and torquier, but I don't want to go with a big block. This car will likely never see a quarter mile strip, so turning and stopping is important too. I don't want to put too much weight over the nose (I figure aluminum heads and a carb will more than make up for the heavier 351 block). Besides, I already have a 351. I don't have a big block. You do the math :D
I've had a serious hard on for Twisted Wedge heads ever since they first came out. They might not be the best flowing, but they seem to have established themselves as a very respectable and reliable head. It's hard to go back on better than a decade of dreaming...
yea my dad asked me what i planned to run on the stang, and told me everyone he talked to spoke highly of them. But when im building the stang, im gonna go all out. its gonna be just a toy
A 10-pound bottle in the trunk will be nice! ;)
Are you gonna put in sfc?
Crown vic is right if i am remembering correct
If you mean subframe connectors, they're already in. My plan from the start has been to first focus on suspension/chassis to make the car handle the power, then the body to make it worth putting something powerful in, then the engine. The chassis/suspension is finished (3.55 TC rear, CHE arms, poly bushings up front, all new ball joints/struts/shocks/tie rod ends/rack/strut mounts, TC front & rear brakes, TC front & rear sway bars, Ken Brown SFC's) and the body is just about finished. This car is gonna be fun :D
I'd thought you'd put them in, guess I had a brain fart, lol.
No plans for any squeeze later on?
Your plans are pretty similar to mine (lonnnggg range plans of mine)
only I would reallllly like to have mine efi.
Then again, I remember you saying you didn't really plan on any racing...
Can't wait to see the finished product!