Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Swapping => Topic started by: sum_weirdo on May 07, 2007, 06:23:19 PM

Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 07, 2007, 06:23:19 PM
The 460 has held a certain appeal for me for awhile.  I've been making plans for a 393 stroker but with a 460 I could just throw it in practically stock without screwing with stroker cranks and clearancing and stuff and I'd still get more power than with the stroker.  And they even make adapters for the AOD tranny so I figure I'll consider it.  I know some of you have made this kind of swap, what did you have to do to make it fit? 

:hick: PS: I'm not a total doofis, I know a 460 would blow a stock AOD out the exhaust and the rear end too.  Just means I have to do some prep work.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: dudeman351 on May 07, 2007, 07:42:15 PM
i believe the 460 has a 10.2 or10.5" deck height. the 302 has a 8.2" deck height the 460 is at least 6" wider i believe
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Red_LX on May 08, 2007, 12:01:40 AM
I do know there's no way a big block will fit under a stock hood...and I'm sure it wouldn't clear the brake booster either.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 08, 2007, 12:36:30 AM
Yeah I was thinking about the brake booster.  Probably have to use a different one.  As for the clearance I think I could use a dropped K-member.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Carpimp1987 on May 08, 2007, 03:56:04 AM
I know nothing about the swap and parts needed but if that 460 is what you want then go for it. at the same time always check ebay for that kinda of stuff theres a lot of 460ci T-birds you can sometimes find on there.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: dudeman351 on May 08, 2007, 07:09:30 AM
you could always use a 4.6 mustang hydroboost.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: 88sportcoupe on May 08, 2007, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: Red_LX;145640
I do know there's no way a big block will fit under a stock hood.


:bs:Look at 83-88T-BirdGuy's car domain (http://"http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2599237/1") he has a 460 with a stock TC hood.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Red_LX on May 08, 2007, 09:26:53 AM
Hm, well then I stand corrected. I have to wonder how the hell he did that because I've read that a carbed 351W won't even fit under a stock hood without a drop base air cleaner.

Or maybe Mustangs don't have as much room?
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 08, 2007, 10:00:12 AM
http://fordifiedracing.homestead.com/KitInfo.html
These K-member spacers give a 1.5 inch drop.  That's most of it there.  I'd like to know exacty what he did though.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Red_LX on May 08, 2007, 10:22:01 AM
Heh..."BENNY's 7.5L 93 LX STILL HAS THE STOCK 4-CYL SPRINGS ALL AROUND"

I bet that thing rolls over on the door handles when he turns...
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Chuck W on May 08, 2007, 12:10:42 PM
So...you like buying gas?
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: 1WLD BRD on May 08, 2007, 12:55:46 PM
Quote from: Red_LX;145693
Heh..."BENNY's 7.5L 93 LX STILL HAS THE STOCK 4-CYL SPRINGS ALL AROUND"

I bet that thing rolls over on the door handles when he turns...



I bet he didn't drop a 460 in it for it cornering ability either. :rolleyes: :dunce:
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 08, 2007, 12:57:18 PM
:punchballs: I LOVE buying gas!
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 08, 2007, 01:06:55 PM
It won't be so bad.  I'm building a torque monster.  In city driving it'll be like tap the gas and whoosh...sail 20 feet to the next traffic light.  And I'll still have overdrive so it'll do better on the highway than whatever car the 460 comes out of (probably a late 70's full size Ford or Mercury, there's always one around the junkyard).
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Chuck W on May 08, 2007, 01:25:17 PM
Keep telling yourself that.....
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Red_LX on May 08, 2007, 02:29:53 PM
Quote from: 1WLD BRD;145729
I bet he didn't drop a 460 in it for it cornering ability either. :rolleyes: :dunce:


GEE REALLY
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 08, 2007, 02:31:32 PM
Regarding the brake booster didn't someone say to me once that one of the Mustangs had a narrower vacuum booster?  The suggestion was for if I wanted to swith to a stick shift I think but still does anyone know which Stang that would be?
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Red_LX on May 08, 2007, 03:58:54 PM
5.0 Fox mustangs had a booster that was smaller in diameter than the ones in the Thundebirds.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: bigbob on May 08, 2007, 11:27:21 PM
i think the 80;s mustangs or some certian year fox has a smaller booster.  but forget the power brakes, just get a manule conversion kit. as far as the height goes... it depends im running a victor 460 intake on mine. it is 12 inches tall hahah. plus a 1050 dominator. and then most guys run atleast 1    inch tall space to help with fule/ air atomization.  if u want it to sit hella low, get a motor plate.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 09, 2007, 12:42:13 AM
Motor plate?  Do you mean solid mounts?  Why do you think I should go with manual brakes, is there an advantage or does a brake booster just not clear?
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 09, 2007, 12:59:44 AM
Just been looking at manual conversion kits.  Looks like they're not recommended for a stock brake system.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 09, 2007, 01:13:32 AM
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/parts.php?type=search&query=twr708
Now I see :D
Motor plate is definately an interesting option.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: 1WLD BRD on May 09, 2007, 09:16:46 AM
Hope your not planning to street drive it after it is done.  With the motor plates it will send every little vibration the motor makes while it is running, through the chassis.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 09, 2007, 10:29:15 AM
Yeah...I guess I'll stick with the conversion mounts.  Anyway I'm not planning on a high rise manifold or anything so the k-member spacers should provide enough room up top.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Chuck W on May 09, 2007, 12:07:33 PM
Is this thing your daily driver?  If so, a BB swap is, well, pretty silly....
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 09, 2007, 12:48:59 PM
Hmm.  You're right.  I think I'll convert to Hybrid Synergy Drive and drive it in the earth day parade.  Lol.  I don't think it's silly.  In my brief stint at a heavy duty garage I got to drive my boss's 2006 Sierra on parts runs and whatnot.  That thing was a BLAST to drive.  I kept having to clean it up when I got back to the garage because I'd have loose change and  flying off the dash and hitting me in the face it had so much torque.  I could die happy with something like that as my daily driver.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: Chuck W on May 09, 2007, 12:58:09 PM
Well the moment you bitch about gas prices I'm sure as hell going to call you on it ;)
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 09, 2007, 01:38:45 PM
I only complain about the state of the gas industry once in awhile.  Mostly I just grin like an idiot and pump the gas ;) If I'm going to complain about anything it'll be when the govt passes that damm law that taxes older vehicles.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: bigbob on May 10, 2007, 12:45:44 AM
manule brake kit works fine with stock system. they just want u to buy their shiznit to go with it.  a motor plate will be fine on the street.  when u get on it it will transfer all the vibration into the car as said above tho. not comfy and would not recomend for a daily driver.  as for the 460 for the daily driver... hahahaha  man i would not even think about it. i love big blocks more than i love my family. but my 521 stroker... i will be happy if i can get 8 mpg when i baby it.it is a lot of tourqu for sure... but its a 700 lb motor.  if u put a stock 460 in that car your looking at a low 13 second car.  you can put a 5.0 explorer motor in there and pull the same time if not faster. gotta love those gt40p heads.

what are you planing on doing to the 460 if you go that route? i would strongly recomend porting the heads (by youself... not worth the money to have them done) and then the intake as you stated... along with a nice hyd roller cam setup and a nice carb and you could hace a decent setup going on. but still gunn be a teriible daily driver. haha hope u dont have snow were ever you live!
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: bigbob on May 10, 2007, 12:58:54 AM
just re-read the post.  good luck with that aod hahah i give it a week. and i hope u are not forgetting about the rear end. if you plan on putting sticky tires on that... wich you will need to make it hook...... and enjoy th 6k miles you get on a set of tires that will have a chance against it. hahah

im not trying to be a smart ass and i dont mean to be a " well u didnt think this out enough" type of guy....  just want to make sure u did think about it. haha. trying to help.  it is plenty feasable to build this car but it might take more money than you expect and there will be some comprimises to make get what u want.

as far as the swap parts... you will need some motor mounts or a motor plate...d&D  and skinny kid racing both make nice plates... and ford racing sells mounts as well as many othe places

need a swap oil pan. im using a canton pan. moroso makes a nice one too. looking at about 270 $ ish for pan and pickup.

headers....  hooker supercomps  2'' primaries 3 1/2 ''
about 400$

trans crossmember

the obvious fuel and ignition setup

radiator

probly need a new drive shaft.

and i would probly tie your frame with some thru floor subframe conectors.  if you are gunna mod the motor at all for more power

hope any of this helps :)
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: CougarSE on May 10, 2007, 08:38:32 AM
If I'm going to bitch about anything its what Ohio Legislation is trying to do to our Tittie bars :(
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 10, 2007, 10:52:03 AM
What's a tittie bar?  Lol.  I've considered this some more, maybe I'm better off sticking with a 351 block or maybe even a 302 crate motor.  I'm already confident I can fit that 351 with minimal aggravation.  Some captured mounts and ditch my stealth intake for a slimmer Edelbrock one and I've got it made.  Plus ofcourse it'll bolt up to the AOD without some expensive adapter.  By the way Bob I did mention the need for AOD and rear end upgrades at the beginning of my post ;)  Thanks for all the helpful insight though.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on May 11, 2007, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: Red_LX;145640
I do know there's no way a big block will fit under a stock hood...and I'm sure it wouldn't clear the brake booster either.


Well.....actually the 460 will fit. Check the Photos. As for the brake booster...use a Mustang small booster from a 5.0 h.o. ( as well as some V-6 models)

The ThunderCats have more hood clearance than mustangs from the factory.  + 1 for us !!

My Gray 83 460 Bird uses a Mustang booster.  My 87 TC 460 uses a manual master cylinder.

The Factory 87-88 T.C. (Lincoln MK VII) Electric m/c absolutely will not clear a 460.  I tried....alot.

The swap is not as hard as some people would like you to believe.

Drawback:  About 250 lbs heavier than a 302.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/GrayBird9Engine.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/GrayBird10Engine.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/Elliottopofengineshot.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/FrontofTCwhoodup.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s3/83-88T-BirdGuy/MVC-010S.jpg)
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: sum_weirdo on May 11, 2007, 09:26:23 PM
Interesting.  Did you have to lower the k-member or use solid mounts or anything?
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on May 11, 2007, 10:13:49 PM
Quote from: sum_weirdo;146576
Interesting.  Did you have to lower the k-member or use solid mounts or anything?


Yes, both.

I used (2) 1/4 inch plates between the frame rails and the k-frame as well as a Van C-6 trans mount. 1/2 inch total drop.

The solid mounts I made special because the 87-88 T-Bird k-frame is unique.

I am still debating on  using an aftermarket k-member.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: rbohm on May 12, 2007, 09:16:52 PM
you dont need to use k member spacers with the tbird. superford magazine did this swap a few years ago using a kit from kaufman products. the swap looks factory and fits under the stock hood.
Title: Anyone know how much taller the 460 is than the 302?
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on May 13, 2007, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: rbohm;146810
you dont need to use k member spacers with the tbird. superford magazine did this swap a few years ago using a kit from kaufman products. the swap looks factory and fits under the stock hood.


You are absolutely correct....However....I needed the engine to drop even more because I am running a 1/2 phonelic spacer and a 3" tall air cleaner.

I am also using the Fox T-Bird hood with the most interferance when installing a 460.....the 87-88 TC hood. Super Ford got lucky using a standard hood.

I will say that the Super Ford article you mentioned, I must have read over 150 times when I built the gray Bird in '94.

My 83 Bird was built using the same mounts as the S.F. T-Bird. But then again it has the standard hood, so hood clearance wasn't an issue.

If you like to use thin air cleaners, or no air cleaner at all,  then don't worry about k-frame spacers.;)