I wonder if anyone can guess what this bracket will hold and give me more low end torq? The only person who I've told is sleeper-tbird.:D
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture064.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture063.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture062.jpg)
An expresso machine?
Water to air intercooler?
no ones even close ;)
Nitrous solenoids.
Jim
Supercharger??
And xr7cat is the winner!!!
Bitchin man, what kind are you using?
flux capacitor?
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture065.jpg)
Still need some more lil stuff before its working and need to paint it. It's a experiment to see if it would work and have the best of both worlds, the low end of the sc and the top end of the turbo.
You now have my full attention, and thats hard to accomplish. Do tell more
Well the sc will be feeding the turbo and also maybe help it spool along the way faster. I won't be able to test drive it because It no longer has a tranny need to rebuild it. Also Im converting it to 5 lug using stang 03 gt pbr brakes.
why dont you just find a smaller turbine housing?
Well yea I could find a smaller turbine housing but I already had the sc and cost me lil to nothing to mount it. Also I want to prove wrong the ppl that say that this combo would not work. And last reason I did not went smaller housing is because im 19 and currently dont have a job.
hope your going to build up a bad ass cooler for that setup. i deffinetly give you props for giving it a shot! im a pessimist so i dont think it will work. good luck though.
It already has a big frount mount intercooler and methanol injection. And if that is not enough the n2o will defenetly cool it down.:hick:
if you need 4 power adders on one motor, you might want to find another car. or invest in bailing wire.
atleast let him try... it is HIS car :flip:
thats a little ruff isnt it...
you're right, and good luck with it. im sure you'll impress us all, when its done.
I'll bet $10 to a donut he blows the heads off it in 3 runs. :D
that much compression, all his internals will turn into one chunk of iron.
Well i was running 25psi turbo alone I want to run the same that's until I buy the 3.5bar map sensor and run 30+psi.
The combo can work....
http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=ea
Oil changes are gonna be a bitch. Nothing like having to remove the SC to to add oil...
I thought about the oil changes and everything and I will be adding my oil trough the back breather. But of course my hood will not close.
Reminds me of VW's new... I think it's called Twincharger system. Uses a SC for low-end torque and a turbo for high-rpm power. All computer controlled, of course. They had a 1.8, 2.0, and 2.2, IIRC. I think I remember from what I read about it, it was over a 100hp-per-liter setup. Which isn't really earth-shattering, but it's pretty impressive for a V-dub.
It can work...I just don't understand why people think they need to run a turbo with a twin screw blower....it's a freakin' positive displacement supercharger...it won't stop making boost on that 2.3 at any rpm...low-end, mid-range, top-end...doesn't matter...sell your turbo and make your car a little lighter...you'll be faster.
I'm just wondering, won't the SC actually slow down the airflow when the turbo is really boosting in high rpms? Simply, won't the turbo be sucking at the slower-moving blower?
About the positive displacement I will be adding a bypass valve eventually so when the bypass valve is open the sc cannot make boost. That will solve that problem and just the turbo will be working. And about making the car ligher well ill post some pics of my car.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/racebird008.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/racebird012.jpg)
Here are some progress I did today the blower now looks alot better.:evilgrin:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture068.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture069.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture072.jpg)
Where is the Outlet on that blower?
The outlet is the top plenum.
looking good !!!!!!
Cool, making progress. I see your more of a doer than a talker. :D
I think most turbo/supercharger setup's (designed to work together) bypass the supercharger at high rpm's. I don't know how they do it.
A bypass valve set at a given boost rating would do it. Since the blower is feeding the turbo I would think that you can put the bypass valve in between the two. The trick is to pick a good point where the turbo is starting to make it's own power. There would most likely be some experimenting involved here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger
http://come.to/twincharger
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/lane/1231/20-valve.html
Look here, the aftermarket's getting into it too: http://www.detroittuned.com/products/index.php?sSection=engine&sProduct=20050324230623
Looks good! I'm diggin' the idea. Keep us up to date!
Here are some more progress pics.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture076.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture075.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture074.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture073.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture077.jpg)
The only issue now that I need to solve is the belt routing. I also filled the supercharger with oil and now its super smooth. Won't be long before its done.
the belt looks like its gonna be a pain to do
Edit i wrote that before you posted about it lol
Something I would do. Install a boost gauge on that pipe going from the supercharger to the Turbo. If you started reading vacuum at high Rpm then you would know it was a restriction. Would be interesting to compare the reading off that pipe and the pipe going to the intake.
Also are you overdriving the supercharger? On SC's they run at something like 12k rpm because of the jackshaft.
Yes I will be checking with a boost gauge on the sc to turbo pipe that's why I installed a nipple on the pipe.
going to be an awesome setup
I ran into a hault. I finally figured out how to run the belt after installing 2 idler pullies. Well after installing the belt I saw that my supercharger began to flex. After seeing that I installed a support going from the shocktower to the main bracket and it was super stiff but not stiff enough for the belt and it's still flexing. So now I need to add more support brackets or do something to stop the flexing. I would of never thought the belt tension was that strong, I also removed the wastegate and will be running the engine with the supercharger alone to see how much it boost's. Here are some pics.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture080.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture079.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture078.jpg)
bad ass!!
looks good.. use some thicker metal on that bracket.. and it wont flex as much.
post some pics of where you mounted the plate
Very interesting...
Well it's not the main bracket that flexs but the legs that bend to one side.
Its mounted to the header bolts on one side and the intake bolts on the other side of the head.
could you maybe run some more brackets from the intake? like where the two halves bolt together as a brace? maybe gusset the brackets you have now?
can't cross brace because of the valve cover, hum. I was thinking of ideas but none will work since the motor is going to flex also
Triangulate the legs
it is a 2-piece intake, right? 4 bolts hold them together? run two more brackets from the 2 closest bolts to the valve cover, to the plate. it would be at like a 45 degree angle, and should clear the cam cover.
I think Im gonna try that next.
Here is an update to make the base stronger I triangulated the legs and welded gussets still have 2 more to go. If this dont work Im gonna have to start from scrath again. here are some pics.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture084.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture083.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture082.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture081.jpg)
Got some more work done on the ole bird. I installed my new lakewood 70/30 struts and the 03 mustang spindles. I still have to run new lines to the manual brakes im converting it to and the line lock.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture085.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture086.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture087.jpg)
any updates?
Back from the dead well not really. My c4 transmission was slipping so I rebuilt it myself and just recived my tribars stang wheels. The supercharger started leaking oil from the front snout seal and have not been able to locate where they sell them. Also I installed my skinny kid race cars manual brake conversion kit and a line lock and still need to bleed the system. So basically until I find the front snout seal the supercharger is on stand by I just want to be able to drive my bird again and feel the holset power. I will be having fun with the nitrious in the mean time until I install the sc. Any help with where I can buy a front snout seal will be greatly appreciated will post some pics tommorow of the progress.
can you post a pic of the seal and maybesome measurements? if you cant find it, you might have to fabricate one/modify the case.
BTW, i received my SKRC kit yesterday, but they didnt send the press. switch, nor the heim joint for the pushrod. did you get those?
I will post a pic of the seal tommorow. And for the SKRC manual brakes I did received the heim joint and the press swith I bought my kit new on ebay for $160 I beleive. Where did you bought your kit at?
Also for the kit I had to remove the brake pedal which is a real bitch on manual pedals and drill a hole 1" above where the old linkage went for the new linkage.
i bought mine directly from Skinny Kid for $149 plus shipping. i ordered it for 94+ mustang, and they told me they dont include the pressure switch on those kits, but their site shows it does?!?! is your M/C army green in color?
Yea its army green strange unit yea mine was $160 shipped and I orderd mine for a 88 stang and included everything weird your does not.
well, its a hideous color, and doesnt match too well with a freshly painted azure blue engine bay!
Yea its a ugly color but on my engine bay you cant even see it. Have you installed your kit already?
not yet, i need to respray the engine bay after welding on the firewall. i did test fit, and the brake lines look like they'll be rubbing the strut tower. and FWIW, that strange M/C is a dodge unit. might find one that has the ports facing the engine.
Yea the ports are real close to the shock tower and its real tricky to bend them with the engine in and harnesses but It turned out good.
mine is even more offset, because it was ordered to clear a big block.
Hmmm that sucks any updates on your car?
only what ive posted in my thread. i should have my heads back next week, and im waiting on another timing cover to show up. this one should be a little more "polishing friendly", since it doesnt have mounting bosses for coil packs.
We know the combo will work. Just ask VW. :hick:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/10/volkswagen-twincharger-tsi-voted-best-new-engine-of-2006/
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/036_001.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/gallery/albums//Volkswagen/Golf%20-%20GTI%20-%20Rabbit/Golf%20V/Golf%20GT/045.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/gallery/albums//Volkswagen/Golf%20-%20GTI%20-%20Rabbit/Golf%20V/Golf%20GT/026.jpg)
Out of curiosity, why the hell did you mount and drill the angle like that?
It would have been just as strong, and easier to work with, if you drilled the bolt hole through a flat side and mounted it up with the flat side against the plate and the intake bolt.
It was easy to do it this way and its easy to bolt it on also.
I don't really see how...but if you say so :dunno:
You'll have a hard time keeping those bolts snug without a flat surface to tighten them against.
That thing is going to rip. Good job, man.
The VW only makes 140 horse. If you could make your setup look a little more natural, (it's awesome though), I'd be drooling even more. I can't wait to see how this runs.
Thanks man I really appreciate the support. I also wanted to mount the sc on another place less avious but was not able to could not post any pics today but will do tommorow.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture244.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture241.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture240.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture239.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture238.jpg)
These pics were from today the tranny shifts good and crisp not bad for my first rebuild. I had some bugs vac leak and changed the inner and outer tie rods. The front has pbr brakes and strange manual brakes still need to convert tha back to 5 lug. Basically all I need to install the m90 back on is the front snout seal everything else has been done. Will be playing with the giggle juice for now.
nice!!!
love the tri bars
you!!!
:D
One question on that setup. What are you doing for an air meter?
Im running speed density using a 3 bar map sensor. I went standalone sds system.
I don't know where the hell this thread has gone, since I don't feel like reading through the whole thing, but from what I've read about Twin-charging, is that you have to do it with a Centri blower, not a roots. However, this roots isn't mounted in typical roots standards, so it may just work. But basically you can't boost a roots blower and get any real extra power.
He isn't boosting the roots, the roots is boosting the turbo. Do we know what will happen after spool? When the turbo gets cranking well enough, will the sc clutch out, or is that even possible with the SC blower?
After the turbo gets boosting the bypass valve will open so the sc will just be free wheelin and the turbo making the boost.
haha, have you ever seen MadMax? that sweet 75(?) ford falcon(australian) i think it was. that blower had a clutch that'd kick in when he needed that extra power. now i know thats only a movie, but ever since i first saw that i wondered if that could be done in really life. i assume it can if you have enough cash, engineering skill, and patience. but that'd be so freakin sweet
IT'S ALIVE!! I finalyy found the seal I needed and installed it and now its running. No test drive yet until tommorow but wow does it blow alot of air and man is it LOUD sounds so sweet.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture246.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture245.jpg)
looking good man!!!!!
mad max supercharger was fake and man AWESOME!!!!!
Impressive blue one. :D
When I think of all the roots I've boosted...
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture250.jpg)More pics will take alot more pics tommorow and if I learn how to upload vid I will post a video.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture252.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture251.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture249.jpg)
wow that looks so cool!
SWEETNESS! Looks good man. Good work
Cool! Honor us with a video please!
I know some superchargers will clutch, but I was wondering if the actual SC (as in SuperCoupe) blower was clutched.
That is looking awesome! Good to see it running. Now let's
hear it running. ;)
That looks Crazy! i want to see a Video Too!
Pleez Post A Vid Kthxbye
Well the blower works spectacular! It now has the bottom end of a 302 it will spin the 275's easy. Just cruising I mash the pedal and it jumps to 9-10psi right away Im just using the blower's psi right now and its boosting 16psi. The bov is always open now even in idle alot of air is comming out I need to tighten it so If it will close I do think I would see 18psi easy if it would close. I will be installing the wastegate tommorow and set it to say 8 psi and see what it does. One thing I did noticed is that the blower's piping gets HOT even my intercooler gets alot hotter it would never get this hot before. I still need to fine tune it but I do think in the end it will be worth it. Will continue to keep you guys updated and will post a vid when I can upload it to my laptop.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture256.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture255.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture257.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture253.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture259.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture258.jpg)
Hell yeah!!!!!!!
what are you gonna do for a hood!
trade with sleeper :hick:
Yea Im gonna need a hood like that but I will be making one.
i have an idea. you could put the blower where the turbo sat then move the turbo to where your stock ler is. so basically your turbo is your ler!!
my hood is a one off VFN unit
comin from you, that is freakin hilarious
:rollin:
take a flat hood and cut out holes to let the pipes and filter hang out the top.....
Here are some pics of the custom cowl hood I started to build today. The hood was from a 88 cougar and already had a hole from a previous 351w air cleaner. I also will be installing the turbocoupe scoops the cowl is 4.5 inches tall. Also you will be able to see a piece of the blower piping. Here are some pics
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture261.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture260.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture262.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture266.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture265.jpg)
Great Work! I don't know if you can do this due to opening the hood and movement but could you round the ends of the hole for the pipe?
Is it goin to be a lift off? Its goin to be a B as heavy as they are if it is.
Do you have solid Motor Mounts?
Its not gonna be a lift off hood and I have stock motor mounts, but I made custom braces that go from the chassis to the engine and it does not move.
Man, you must have a whole hell of a lot more money than I did when I was 16...of course I didn't have a car when I was 16 either. Or good garage access.
Well im 19 and no dont have alot of money or a job at the moment I already finished my degree in automotive tech and no one is hiring sucks. Well back to working on the hood will post updates.
Here are some more progress pics 2 more days and hopefully i will be done.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture272.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture271.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture270.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture269.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture268.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture267.jpg)
Little update on the car well i connected the wg to stock setting and now im seeing 20psi but the bov is open always. Also In park i rev it not even hard and i see 10psi right away. I went for a cruise and did a 2 block burnout nonstop and could easily have gone more this thing pulls HARD. The boost now kicks in off ilde and the feeling is awsome for anyone who doubted that this was not gonna work shame on you. Will keep you posted.
Not sure about the hood now.... love the idea of it, its awesome but i dont like how the hood keeps goin up at a slant an never levels off semi flat at the back of the hood again. I personally think that it looks better when a cowl levels off at the back.
Perhaps your right but I like it this way and too late to change now its all fiberglassed already.
That is what really counts
I like the slope of the hood (I never liked how cowl hoods flatten at the top), but I think it would look KILLER if you trimmed the top so the sides canted out at a 45-degree angle (I never liked how the sides came straight down, either). I think if it had slopes on all sides it would look awesome (especially since it's an 87/88, it would go with the car's lines).
You are a madman.
And I LOVE it!
VIDEO! NOW! lol
i say that this is the most innovative thing, that anyone has ever done to one of these little motors.
no, i don't proof read what i post i should start doing it though. that better?
daboss, did you even read that sentence before you hit 'post reply'? The English language is ****ed as it is, but you seem to be trying to reach a new level.
*edit*
Much better. Thank you. I get pretty tired of the garbage that floats around the net trying to pass itself off as a language; I hate to see it around sites I'm fond of.
:cheers:
Oops, I thought I read somewhere that you were 16.
Neat project though. I guess mounting the supercharger on top of the engine is certainly one way to figure out the mounting setup since it's tight anywhere else.
BTW, 2 questions, one of which I don't think you ever answered...
1. What is that supercharger originally from?
2. Where'd you get that idler you're running below the supercharger?
The supercharger is a Thunderbird Super Coupe Eaton unit.
Aerobid is correct the supercharger is a eaton m90 came out of a 90 cougar xr7. The idler's I do not know from what engine they are I got them at the jy they were already taken off.
any hood update pics?!?
Will post updated pics tonight of the hood.
I hate to bring this up, but do you antite problems with heat from the pipe heating up the hood too much (and the paint around the edges where it pokes through)?
The pipe from the sc does get hot but i dont think its enough to cause problems with the hood paint.
What do you have the one idler below the supercharger bolted to? I can't even tell from the pics.
I also didn't know that super coupe superchargers had the outlet on the top and the inlet on the back :dunno:
I guess that probably makes them more adaptable.
The idler right below the blower is on the alt top bolt and the idler below it is on the timing belt tensioner.
where's the friggin vid?!
Well bad news I took the car out last night and it was running better than ever at 25psi if felt FAST. Today I was taking it out and saw smoke and smelled like antifreeze i checked where it was coming from and it was between my header and turbo. I picked my dipstick out while the engine running and oil started gushing out so im positive I blew a hg. I think im gonna might as well swap the engine now to the other one i have that looks to have a recent rebuild and give this old junkyard dog a rest and port my N/A head Im currently running. Also has anyone here tried the slider tc cam with ranger rolller followers did you notice a improvement ant bad outcomes? Well will keep you posted.
Don't use the RR followers with a slider cam....
Invest in head studs.
Im already running head studs.
I was running a felpro 8991 I beleive its the cheapest gasket felpro sells. And Im also kind of suprised how long it lasted and I had detonation you could hear a block away more than once and kept running. Im not sure yet what hg im gonna run.
The 8991 is fine (or whatever the std Felpro turbo replacement is (8993 I think actually). Unless you plan on triple-checking your head and block flatness for perfection, don't use the 1035.
Yea I think its the 8993 the correct number. And i will probly use it again and just coat it again with permatex copper spray.
What's wrong with the 1035? I have it on Layla and now you have me all jumpy...
he says it all right here. the 1035 is a "better" gasket, but requires closer tolerances to be used to its potential. it is less forgiving, and on an undecked block/head it may be more pr0ne to failure.
The whole problem was just a stud came loose the hg was intact. Im almost finish porting the head and will be swapping in the other engine in. Hopefully by monday it should be back up and running will keep you posted.
Oh, I only have 10K miles on the decking on the block and 500 miles on the decking on the head. I should be OK :hick:
Here are some pics with the custom cowl hood. The hood is far from finished enjoy.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture279.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture278.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture276.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s111/88cat/Picture274.jpg)
wow, thats a hell of a big hood. its amazing how it still cant hide all you have in there!what are your ideas on trying to ocver up that piping? assuming you want to try and cover it.
I vote hoodless~!~!
I could of redone the piping to cover it up but I like it sticking out of the hood makes it look intresting. And as for hoodless I wish I could do it but I dont know if its legal.
..... liked the idea and good work but im not sure on it. As for hoodless being legal. thing about all the old phone booth cars, no hoods. its just that you are going to open it up to the weather
Wow...that hood would bug the shiznit out of me....
it had to be that tall? shiznit its got to suck to see out of
Yeah it had to be that tall and its not too bad to see.