CEO Mulally says global warming is real; creates new environmental post
Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News
In one of the strongest statements on climate change ever made by a U.S. auto industry executive, Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally said Monday that global warming is real, manmade and caused in part by auto emissions.
"The vast majority of data indicates that the temperature has increased, and I believe the correlation and the buttstuffysis says that is mainly because of the greenhouse gases keeping the heat in. You can just plot it with the Industrial Revolution and the use of all of our resources," he said.
Mulally made the comments during a telephone press conference called to announce the promotion of Susan Cischke, Ford's vice president of environmental and safety engineering, to the newly created post of senior vice president in charge of sustainability, environment and safety engineering -- a move Mulally said was meant to underscore the importance of this issue to Ford's corporate strategy.
"It's about sustainability, it's about mobility, it's about safety, it's about (being) stewards of our environment," he said. "This is the biggest agenda we have at Ford. I think it's going to be one of the most important considerations to the customers that buy our products and services going forward."
Also Monday, General Motors Corp. Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the U.S. government needs to take a Manhattan Project-like approach to creating a national energy policy, bringing the best minds in the country to bear on the issue of energy sustainability and independence.
Dismissing skeptics
America's automakers have acknowledged that climate change is a serious issue, and one their industry must address.
But Mulally's statement was one of the clearest yet that global warming is not a natural phenomenon, as some skeptics -- including Lutz -- have suggested.
"I'm just gratified that it seems like, in the court of public opinion, we have moved to the place where we all are starting to appreciate and agree that this really is an issue, and that we all want to do something about it," he said.
It was a statement he reiterated Monday afternoon in an e-mail to Ford employees, a copy of which was obtained by The Detroit News.
"I firmly believe we are at an inflection point in the world's history as it relates to climate change and energy security. The time for debating whether climate change is real has past It is time for a conversation about what we, as a society, intend to do to address it," Mulally wrote.
To that end, the CEO said Cischke will oversee a company-wide effort to create a greener Ford.
"It's the product development side, it's the manufacturing piece, it's the supplier community -- it's a lot of things. It also includes the working conditions aspect, the human rights issue. It's balancing the people side of it as well as the economic side and the environmental side and trying to figure out how it fits together," Cischke told reporters.
"While we have a clear picture of where we'd like to be in the next five to seven years, I've got to look beyond that," she said.
Environmentalists cautious
While environmentalists welcomed Mulally's candor on global warming, some questioned his choice to lead Ford's environmental efforts.
"We're a little concerned. Sue Cischke has been Ford's public face for fighting a lot of things that would help stop global warming," said the Sierra Club's Brendan Bell. "Clearly, there is a desire at certain levels of Ford's management to promote sustainability. But they're much better at creating new positions than new policies."
Ford has drawn fire in the past for reneging on environmental promises, like then-CEO Bill Ford Jr.'s pledge to build 250,000 hybrids annually by 2010. Ford retracted that commitment less than a year later.
"We didn't have it all thought out as much as we should. Maybe we got out a little too far in front. But you can't take away our intent," Mulally said.
Promoting greener transportation has been a big priority for Bill Ford, now the company's executive chairman.
During his tenure, Ford introduced the world's first hybrid sport utility vehicle, but also made plenty of big gas-guzzlers.
And the Dearborn-based automaker continued to resist government efforts to increase federal fuel economy standards.
On Monday, Mulally said increasing those regulations only makes sense as part of a broader solution to global warming, one that includes sacrifices by other industries.
"We're only going to make the progress we all want to make if we move this up to include the generation of all energy, as well as the use of the energy," he said.
Lutz also called for a more comprehensive energy policy Monday.
"We really want to push for the transformational solution," he said during a speech at an automotive conference in Louisville.
For example, he said the federal government should do more to convince oil companies to install ethanol pumps at gas stations.
While GM has suggested more research needs to be done into the causes of global warming, the company told The News it is not waiting for the answer.
"We're not waiting for the scientific community to finish its discussion on the specifics of climate change," said GM spokesman Greg Martin.
"As we've said from L.A. to Capitol Hill, we see it as both a business necessity and as our obligation to society to develop advanced technologies that run on diverse sources of energy to lessen the automobile's impact on the environment."
You can reach Bryce Hoffman at (313) 222-2443 or bhoffman@detnews.com. Dow Jones Newswires contributed to this report.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Autocat on April 24, 2007, 12:53:08 PM
cliff notes?
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: oldraven on April 24, 2007, 12:53:41 PM
Read.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: slamedcat on April 24, 2007, 12:57:06 PM
I'd like to see him tell the people in TX and AZ that global warming is real they both had snow this winter or how about the people in NY that got 9 feet of snow.
Sorry I had to let that out.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: oldraven on April 24, 2007, 01:09:28 PM
Talk about missing the point.
Is it worth arguing over anymore? Take a look at 'who' is arguing that global warming doesn't exist.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Ether947 on April 24, 2007, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: slamedcat;142551
I'd like to see him tell the people in TX and AZ that global warming is real they both had snow this winter or how about the people in NY that got 9 feet of snow.
Sorry I had to let that out.
Global Warming isn't always about the "warming" part. It's really a bad term to use and should be changed, because people take way too literally. Including myself at one time. It's the side effects we need to worry about. Persistent Cat 5 Hurricanes, Tornadoes in January, Blizzards dumping 13 feet of snow, Dustbowls, and rising ocean levels and the like.
Quote from: wikipedia
Global warming is the increase in the average temperature (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record") of the Earth's near-surface air and oceans (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean") in recent decades and its projected continuation.
Quote from: wikipedia
An increase in global temperatures can in turn cause other changes (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_global_warming"), including sea level rise (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise"), and changes in the amount and pattern of precipitation (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precipitation_%28meteorology%29"). There may also be increases in the frequency and intensity of extreme weather (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_weather") events, though it is difficult to connect specific events to global warming. Other consequences may include changes in agricultural yields, glacier retreat (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_mass_balance"), reduced summer streamflows, species extinctions (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_risk_from_climate_change") and increases in the ranges of disease vectors (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_%28biology%29").
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: slamedcat on April 24, 2007, 01:45:06 PM
[qoute]Originally Posted by wikipedia Global warming is the increase in the average temperature of the Earth's near-surface air and oceans in recent decades and its projected continuation.[/quote]
The problem here is that pollution is not the only contrubuting factor for that. Look around at all the land that has been paved for parking lots. Here is Peoria they just built a new mall and paved probly 20 acres for the entire project. That will make the Avg. temp for the city rise also.
I jsut think that we need to step back and look at the big picture and start from the begining.
They should start with air lines. Jets put more polution into the air than cars do. Plus the volcanoes that are erupting are putting more than air planes. Mother Nature FTW! So no matter how much we do to control pollution there is always going to be a problem with it.
Quote
http://www.chesapeakebay.net/air_pollution.htm Natural Sources Natural sources of air pollution are sources not caused by people or their activities. An erupting volcano emits particulate matter and gases; forest and prairie fires can emit large quantities of pollutants; plants and trees emit hydrocarbons; and dust storms can create large amounts of particulate matter. Wild animals in their natural habitat are also considered natural sources of pollution given that there is a certain amount of natural pollution, it is very important to control the "excess" pollution caused by man’s activities
But enough with the global warming talk back the subject at hand.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: oldraven on April 24, 2007, 02:02:12 PM
Try reading up on ice cores taken from the Antarctic Ice Cap. Volcanoes have been going off for billions of years, but in these cores we find drastic increases of pollutants, mainly CO2, emerge with the Industrial Revolution. Volcanoes weren't making a difference, but Industrialization was.
We have two problems. Too much sunlight is getting in, and not enough is getting out. You can't blame that on parking lots.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: oldraven on April 24, 2007, 02:28:52 PM
Here's an interesting quick fix that could buy us some time to find better long term solutions to the GW problem. I saw this on Discovery's Daily Planet the other day. The entire episode was dedicated to GW and what changes we've seen, other than the obvious rise in average temperature.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 24, 2007, 02:46:11 PM
There is no doubting that the climate is changing. Anyone over 15 years of age should be able to see that - in fact, we may well be the first generation to ever be legitimately be able to use the term "Back in my day..."
Denying that global warming exists because the winter of 2006/2007 happened to be a particularly shiznitty one is like denying that spring is here because it snowed in April. The fact is that the long-term trend is pointing upwards.
I still hold the firm belief, though, that nothing will be done to curb pollution until individuals start doing it. It's fine and well to tell the government to force industry to be cleaner, but we as individuals can do it right now with no lawmakers involved by simply making smarter choices. Why wait for incandescent bulbs to be outlawed before you install CFL's? Why wait for CAFE standards to be raised before buying a smaller, more efficient vehicle? Why wait for cars to be barred from cities (as has already happened in London, England, and as is also currently being considered by NYC) before carpooling and/or using public transit? Why wait for so-called "Green" electricity production to be mandated when all you have to do is turn out the lights when you leave a room, turn the TV off when nobody's watching it, and turn off the computer when it's not in use?
I find it amusing that the public is outraged when the government sticks its nose into their business when it comes to practical things that should be common sense anyway (seat belt laws, for example), yet at the same time everyone is running around screaming that the government do something about polluters. If the government went after the REAL polluters we'd all be in trouble.
Society has "needs" and it has "wants". We "need" transportation. We "want" to each be in our own steel fortress of solitude during rush hour. A family "Needs" a car. They "want" a V8, 4WD, 8-passenger SUV. The gap between "Need" and "Want" has to shrink considerably before anything meaningful will be done about pollution.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Dogcharmer on April 24, 2007, 06:14:08 PM
Mulally's an idiot.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: amooset on April 24, 2007, 06:20:30 PM
We (the planet) have seen catastrophic climate changes in the past. There WAS an ice age before us. What caused it? Most believe it was a giant meteor. I firmly believe that it's going to happen again. Before we change the climate through out pollution, something beyond our control is going to happen. Isn't Yellowstone on the verge of erupting? Don't we have close calls with meteors relatively frequently? No one is going to live forever. We will be destroyed by another global catastrophe. Maybe not this century, but it will happen. This earth isn't going to last forever, folks. I'm going to live my life how I choose. If gas shoots up, so be it... I'll get around another way. The sun is getting hotter? Bring on the sunscreen. Sooner or later we're all f**ked. Why not just be happy while we're here?
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Beau on April 24, 2007, 07:44:55 PM
To my way of thinking...a coupla hundred years' worth of smog and shiznit being put off is not even one tenth waht that big-assed volcano did about 1200 years ago (can't remember then name..Vesuvius??)
On the other hand, the Earth has been undergoing this heating and cooling cycle for millenia...it's just the last thousand years or so the humankind can record and remember such events...there is NOTHING we can do to stop the shiznit...yeah, let's all quit driving our cars for a month or two?? Big f'n whoop... The poles will melt down some anyway, which means increased water on the planet, which means more rain, which means more of everything we've been having...smog may have affected it SOMEWHAT, but i'd bet my nuts that isn't the direct cause of any of it. Not to rag on all you people...i know it's a wise idea to take care of the environment....but i'm sick to death of some over-paid fatcat who "thinks" he/she has the perfect answer. IF this is such the case...why not hydrogen fuel vehicles NOW...the technology is here now.... Sorry for being an ass..but....we can't really change this thing.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Billyf17 on April 24, 2007, 10:42:46 PM
It's all about money.
The auto manufacturers see an opportunity to make a killing in the next decade. The CEO of Ford is no dummy. He turned Boeing around AFTER 9/11 for cryin out loud. He see's that more and more and more people are jumping on this thing...and most of these people are scared. They are afraid of predictions and hocus pocus that is done with statistics and numbers. You can do anything with stats. So in the eyes of the money hungry, how do you cash in on an inevitable "global disaster?" People are going to buy new cars based on the trend of the times. The trend was displacement. The trend was FWD puppiesanese cars. The trend was huge SUV's. And the trend will be "green" cars. This is nothing more than a scheme to make money. Ford needs it, so they are the first to admit to the "problem" and first to publicly address how they are going to take care of the problem. People, when looking for a new car in the next few years, are going to look for a company that is as concerned with the current crisis as they are. So bye bye Mustang, bye bye big trucks. Hello Yaris type mobiles from Ford. And they'll succeed at this, because they are the first and the most serious about it. They are taking advantage of the panic that is going to insue.
It's all about money...it's always been about money...no one who is anyone in a corporation can think about anything else. Goodyear showed just how corporations work...the dumber you are, the higher up you get. And typically the more money you have, the dumber you are. The smart ones are hired as drones and do all the fancy talk and if they get paid enough, they'll do the number tricks that scare people into believeing what the dumb ones want.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Billyf17 on April 24, 2007, 10:43:23 PM
it...I said to myself I wouldn't rant in this one....thanks a lot!
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 24, 2007, 11:30:59 PM
Quote from: Billyf17;142652
it...I said to myself I wouldn't rant in this one....thanks a lot!
It is indeed all about money, and that applies at all levels, from big corporations to the guy delivering pizzas. Economics, not legislation, will drive people to conserve energy (and thus pollute less). As prices for oil, gas, electricity, and yes, even food, go up, people will consume less. The sad part is that the truly poor people will be the ones to feel it hardest. Just about anybody can conserve some fuel, whether it be from something big like buying a smaller vehicle, or something medium, like replacing all their light bulbs and appliances with energy efficient units, or something small like shutting off the car and going into the Tim Horton's for coffee instead of idling 15 minutes in a drive through or turning off the TV when nobody is in the room. Sadly, food is the one thing that poor people can't really cut down on, seeing as they can barely afford what they buy.
I just today saw two examples of people burning FAR more fuel than required.
Example #1 was our local rural mail carrier. These are contracted out by Canada Post and they drive their own vehicles. Ours drives a 1997-ish 4WD Dodge Durango. Imagine the fuel she'd save by driving something like a Saturn wagon from mailbox to mailbox over her 20 mile route each day...
Example #2 was the Nova Scotia Power meter reader. He pulled up today, as he does every second month (power meter is read bi-monthly) in a 4WD, extended cab Ford Ranger. This vehicle belongs to NSP. It is a fairly new vehicle - the meter reader used to drive a Ford Focus (again, painted in NSP colours).
The corporations involved both recoup the money they waste by gouging customers. Canada Post charges a fuel surcharge to help offset high fuel costs (the mail carrier gets very little of this fuel surcharge, of course - they are paid for their mileage, regardless of their choice of vehicle). Nova Scotia power has been crying poor-mouth for three years asking for (and getting) rate increases to pay for higher fuel costs.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: yellow86coogr on April 25, 2007, 01:25:38 AM
Quote
It's all about money...it's always been about money...no one who is anyone in a corporation can think about anything else. Goodyear showed just how corporations work...the dumber you are, the higher up you get. And typically the more money you have, the dumber you are. The smart ones are hired as drones and do all the fancy talk and if they get paid enough, they'll do the number tricks that scare people into believing what the dumb ones want.
Your making me puny, you are on the money, and could put that one in the bank. he he. Seriously, you couldn't be more right. Bussiness is about one thing and one thing only........$$$$$$$$
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: oldraven on April 25, 2007, 12:17:43 PM
Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;142624
To my way of thinking...a coupla hundred years' worth of smog and shiznit being put off is not even one tenth waht that big-assed volcano did about 1200 years ago (can't remember then name..Vesuvius??)
On the other hand, the Earth has been undergoing this heating and cooling cycle for millenia...it's just the last thousand years or so the humankind can record and remember such events...there is NOTHING we can do to stop the shiznit...yeah, let's all quit driving our cars for a month or two?? Big f'n whoop... The poles will melt down some anyway, which means increased water on the planet, which means more rain, which means more of everything we've been having...smog may have affected it SOMEWHAT, but i'd bet my nuts that isn't the direct cause of any of it. Not to rag on all you people...i know it's a wise idea to take care of the environment....but i'm sick to death of some over-paid fatcat who "thinks" he/she has the perfect answer. IF this is such the case...why not hydrogen fuel vehicles NOW...the technology is here now.... Sorry for being an ass..but....we can't really change this thing.
Did you read the later link I posted. We can, and are, changing this thing. And we did do our part to cause it.
Remember back in the 80's when people were 'crying wolf' about the Ozone layer thinning, causing an increased temperature? Remember how no one payed any attention to it. Well here we are 20 years later, seeing further effects. IT IS HAPPENING!!!!! I don't understand why anyone is still arguing. (I'm beginning to understand Bird351, with so many choosing to hold their heads in the sand)
Mullally isn't claiming to have the perfect answer. He's saying Ford will do its part to make changes. It will be a little more responsible. No one entity can make 'the change'.
It's like the state of our Oceans. For so long marine biologists have been warning us that we're overfishing, but you ask any fisherman his opinion on it. He has his head in the sand too. Just because we don't want to believe that we're responsible for these effects, it doesn't mean we should risk (and in the opinion of 90% of the educated planet 'continue') burning it up any moment sooner than nature will.
And smoking isn't really bad for you, is it? (we've all heard that argument, which plays out exactly the same)
My point is, we can sit here and argue until we're red in the face (two-way cliche), but we're just being arrogant. I'm going to take the word of the men and women who dedicate their lives to observing the various ecosystems on our planet, and plotting the changes, causes, and timelines.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: doodaa on April 25, 2007, 12:58:38 PM
I'd have been impressed if he'd announced Ford was going to start building all flex fuel vehicles, or was spending a significant sum of money to develop alternative fuel vehicles that people will acutally be able to afford to drive.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: EricCoolCats on April 25, 2007, 01:04:56 PM
Quote
Mulally's an idiot.
I don't trust redheads. ;)
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Billyf17 on April 25, 2007, 05:24:45 PM
Ozone....yeah...the hole in the Ozone layer is getting smaller....the hole over Antarctica has gotten over 20% smaller since 2003. So....yeah....oops.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 25, 2007, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: oldraven;142709
It's like the state of our Oceans. For so long marine biologists have been warning us that we're overfishing, but you ask any fisherman his opinion on it. He has his head in the sand too.
Truer words were ne'r spoken. We always hear fishermen crying that their way of life is disappearing through pollution and foreign overfishing, but I know a lot of fishermen that would do well to practice what they preach. Virtually every fisherman I've ever met (know lots of lobstermen) brings in way, WAY more than he is entitled. I can't say with certainty that 100% of them do it, but in my experience the percentage would be in the high 90's. They bring in undersized lobsters, "seed" lobsters (females bearing eggs - they just se the eggs off and throw the lobster in the tank), they put out twice as many traps as they're allowed (and thanks to GPS, which makes it possible for them to find their unmarked traps, this is getting more common)...
...and they ALL complain that everyone else is doing it.
Quote from: Billyf17;142794
Ozone....yeah...the hole in the Ozone layer is getting smaller....the hole over Antarctica has gotten over 20% smaller since 2003. So....yeah....oops.
Oops indeed - you don't suppose that might have something to do with us recognizing the Ozone problem and doing something about it (such as banning R12 over a decade ago, plus not using CFC's as propellants)? You've only proven Oldraven's point that we CAN do something about it...
You know, eagles have been making quite a comeback over the past 40+ years, too. Maybe we should start using DDT again...
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Jonathan Phillips on April 25, 2007, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: Autocat;142549
cliff notes?
Global Climate Change = New Business Profits
Business has finally figured out their's money to be made and they have their ducks in a row or well on the way to make it.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Billyf17 on April 25, 2007, 09:30:09 PM
My point is that the ozone hole is caused by the cfc's and all that stuff. It takes about 15-20 years for the stuff to reach the ozone layer. And then the stuff lives there for another 30-80 years potentially. So if peak production was before 1989 when cfc's were banned, then wouldn't the hole be getting bigger, faster now? And not to mention that cfc's were banned here in North America...but were still produc.....still ARE being produced else where in the world. R-12, btw, was one of the most smuggled materials a few years back. Anyway, my point is the hole should be getting bigger and new holes should be forming. I understand that us doing something about it is helping the problem, but the repairing affects shouldn't be this evident this early.
Just maybe.....out of some stretch....we, as smart as some of us human beings are, are just incapable, at this time, of understanding how something as massive as the ozone layer works 100%. I read somewhere that the holes were natural forming and part of a process that changes every few centuries. So holes form, then close up, new holes form elsewhere, then close up, so on so forth. Nobody knows for sure....this is why there are so few laws in the science world. Most are theories and get proven wrong at a later date. I agree waiting for the theories to get proven wrong is a bad idea...but perhaps our way of handling certain situations is a bit rushed in approach. It's a big big planet, we'll never be able to control 100% what happens on it, in it, or around it...ever.
So, in conclusion....it's all about money....:D
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Jonathan Phillips on April 25, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
Yeah the Ice Core samples go back more than a thousand years so buttstuffyzing what was in the air at points in time beyond a thousand years ago is right there with it. The mini Ice age that happened going from warm back to cold didn't happen overnight so it wasn't a super volcano or Meteor like event. Scientists calculated that it happened over the course of 70 years. This is from the buttstuffysis of the relevant Ice core samples for the years involved. 8 or 9 years ago it was theorized that a large body of ice melted into the northern atlantic as the last great Ice age came to an end. This caused the North Atlantic Conveyor to slow down which pulls warmer water from the pacific rim around the world which warms the northern latitudes in our hemisphere. This underwater river which had been speculated and now confirmed to exist can be simulated by heavily doping a volume of water pressurizing it then adding a layer of fresh water on top. The salt water will actually have it's own descernable surface which you can actually float objects on. Yeah under the fresh water. The incredible pressures at the bottom of the ocean combined with evaporating water in the northern hemisphere in the past drove this underwater river around the world by increasing the saltiness of ocean water causing it to actually sink and move along the ocean bottom. I have seen film footage of both of these phenomenons.
If nothing else makes sense the uncertainty from the current data is enough to give everyone pause. I know every one here has a level of uncertainty great enough, in their personal lives to cause them to buy auto insurance at least and if you have families a lot of other insurances as well. So what's one more insurance??
Their are solutions. Some have been sited here in just the last six months. I'm suprised everyday how many people are toiling away we don't even know about. Like the guy who recently came out with the Plasma recycling plant. You throw any garbage in, the plasma through the process of molecular dissociation, breaks the garbage down into a safe synthesis fuel gas called Plasma Converted Gas. You can burn the gas and drive a generator to make electric to run the plant and sell electric back to the grid. The company is called Star Tech environmental, StHK.OB on the stock market. If you have any investment money you might consider investing in this baby. The military has purchased a plant to get rid of hazardous materials and some other countries in South America have contracted to buy plants. It's scalable technology and the inventer has been working for over a decade to get the kinks out of the process. The only thing you can't throw in it is nuclear waste. Everything else is fair game. The big thing is unlike land fills and other forms of disposal it makes money! That's what businesses want. :D
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 25, 2007, 10:06:35 PM
Quote from: Billyf17;142834
So, in conclusion....it's all about money....:D
Quote from: Jonathan Phillips;142836
The big thing is unlike land fills and other forms of disposal it makes money! That's what businesses want. :D
And here lies the problem: The general public is in a big outcry about fuel prices, and we're all looking for cheaper alternatives. We say we want clean fuel, but in reality we want cheap fuel. That simply is not going to happen. You know what would happen if all of a sudden somebody came up with a way of creating a gasoline replacement that could sell profitably for a buck a gallon?
One of two things:
One: Big oil would snap up the patents so fast we'd never have heard about it to begin with. They'd buy the patents from the creator and sit on them, preventing anyone else from marketing the fuel. They don't want us using alternatives to their products.
Two: If, for some reason, the creator of said mystery fuel was some kind of philanthropist that wanted to help mankind. Let's say he had absolutely no interest in selling the patents to big oil, and let's say that he actually made the formula public (after patenting it himself, he could allow free license to produce it, kind of an "Open source" fuel). Let's pretend that the government, which controlled by big business, actually acted with the public interest in mind and allowed this to happen. The big oil companies then could not stop people from making, selling, buying and using this fuel.
Ya know what would happen then?
Gasoline would cost 80 cents a gallon. Big oil would bankrupt the miracle fuel manufacturers by undercutting them in price (remember, this fuel has to sell for a buck a gallon to be profitable). Once the miracle fuel supply dried up gasoline would skyrocket in price again.
They've got us by the short & curlies. This is why I still insist that the only way we can save on fuel is to use less of it on an individual level.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Jonathan Phillips on April 26, 2007, 03:24:02 AM
Quote from: Billyf17;142834
Just maybe.....out of some stretch....we, as smart as some of us human beings are, are just incapable, at this time, of understanding how something as massive as the ozone layer works 100%.
you're making Thunder Chickens' point for him. Something as big as the world environment should be handled more carefully, because we're unsure...
Put some things in perspective too. The biggest coal consumer in 2002 was China at 1370 MT. The U.S. in 2005 only consumed 1010 MT. China is also the second greatest energy consumer (behind the United States), accounting for about 10.8% of the world's total annual energy consumption. Fuel cost is priced there roughly as follows: sulfered coal produced .15 Yuan[.02 cents]/kWh or unsulfered produced .17 Yuan [.022 cents] /kWh. Of course even at this rate if the average wage earner there consumed the same amount of electricity as I did last year here it would cost s/he twice the amount it would me out of pocket. Just imagine what consumption will be like when things there really get going. Check this out:
China National Coal plans US$1 bln HK IPO (Agencies) Updated: 2005-02-27 14:12
China National Coal Group Corp., the country's number two coal producer, is hiring banks to prepare a Hong Kong stock listing this year to raise about US$1 billion to expand output as China's coal shortage persists.
The firm invited a number of U.S. and European investment banks, including Dutch bank ABN Amro , to pitch for a mandate in a so-called beauty parade last week to underwrite the initial public offering (IPO), a source close to the situation said on Sunday.
"It is in the process of hiring banks to run the IPO, which is likely to raise US$1 billion or more," the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. "It is not going to be launched in two days but the process will begin."
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Jonathan Phillips on April 26, 2007, 04:54:57 AM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;142839
One of two things:
One: Big oil would snap up the patents so fast we'd never have heard about it to begin with. They'd buy the patents from the creator and sit on them, preventing anyone else from marketing the fuel. They don't want us using alternatives to their products.
Two: If, for some reason, the creator of said mystery fuel was some kind of philanthropist that wanted to help mankind. Let's say he had absolutely no interest in selling the patents to big oil, and let's say that he actually made the formula public (after patenting it himself, he could allow free license to produce it, kind of an "Open source" fuel). Let's pretend that the government, which controlled by big business, actually acted with the public interest in mind and allowed this to happen. The big oil companies then could not stop people from making, selling, buying and using this fuel.
Ya know what would happen then?
Gasoline would cost 80 cents a gallon. Big oil would bankrupt the miracle fuel manufacturers by undercutting them in price (remember, this fuel has to sell for a buck a gallon to be profitable). Once the miracle fuel supply dried up gasoline would skyrocket in price again.
They've got us by the short & curlies. This is why I still insist that the only way we can save on fuel is to use less of it on an individual level.
Well I don't know about the economics of all that but the company is real.
http://www.startech.net/faqs.html.
Here's a Q/A from the site that gives the company a little mileage in my book: Q: Is performance insurance available and can Startech provide financing? A: Yes, performance insurance is available to qualified buyers. The insurance provides coverage for a buyer's intended waste stream as well as for the successful permitting of the Plasma Converter system for the specific application. Startech can arrange project financing for creditworthy buyers and will consider taking an equity position in a joint development arrangement for those projects that offer an attractive financial return.
They also opened a 6,000 square foot Demonstration and Training Center located in Bristol, Connecticut. Check their site out. They are literally a 21st century equivillent to APPLE or MICROSOFT of the 70s' and 80s' in my opinion.
Don't sell a small company short. Remember what happened to IBM when MICROSOFT really got going. Could they get bought up and picked apart? Sure; They are a public company, but if the process is sound I would think a big energy company would co-opt it rather than kill it. Another thing in their favor is that the inventors behind the products are still innovating, creating new ways to use the process. Anyone who tries to compete would have to get ahead of them in their technology. The process doesn't defy the second law, so more energy is going in than comming out, it's just the guys have figured out how to take a bunch of the unwanted leftover energy and transform it, again. The machines are costly. You have to have some kind of continous waste stream. I don't see it operating in your back yard anytime soon. I also imagine anything that tries to hold a 30,000 degree F. plasma won't last forever even if such plasma is in a magnetic field. It doesn't solve the ongoing CO2 problem either. Complex problems are rarely solved by one pointed solutions.
Finally, it's just an example. Creativity, Cooperation, Ethical behavior are just some of the most important tools to create a sustainable future. StarTech in and of itself doesn't fall in any of those catagories.
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: Dogcharmer on April 26, 2007, 07:08:03 AM
I like global warming... It happens every spring. Winter sucks!
Title: Ford tackles climate change, "global warming is real"
Post by: oldraven on April 26, 2007, 12:10:16 PM
I read about that trash generator in Popular Science a couple of months ago. Amazing, really. The problem is that remaining waste of glass and heavy metals. They say it could eliminate landfills and produce cheap energy, essentially removing waste removal from our taxes. Promissing, but not perfect.