Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Lion-O on April 20, 2007, 11:05:17 PM

Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 20, 2007, 11:05:17 PM
I was going to get a set of headers, but everyone on here seems to be having trouble getting to line up or the engine accept them. I'm not looking to " pull the pin, drop it in and walk then watch it blow up". so if everyone can save me time. whats the best headers with the least amount of issue to put on a 86 ls 5.0 cougar? :punchballs:
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: 84 Fila on April 20, 2007, 11:08:21 PM
I did Mac shorties. I got them used so I had to fight with them but after 2 bolts got ligned up, all went smooth. Those or factory shorties are a drop in. All depends on how much you wana spend on them and the quality you want
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Ether947 on April 20, 2007, 11:25:46 PM
I had a set of MAC Equals and those  headers sucked as far as install and fit goes. I spend countless hours prying those tubes to get them to line up. They sounded great when they weren't leaking! I finally conceded to a set of factory H.O. headers and never looked back. BBK's seem to have a good following... they would be my choice if I were to buy a set.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 21, 2007, 02:30:32 AM
I don't mind the price so much as the trouble of getting headers to hookup without saws all everything and tig welding shiznit together again. But if bbk is the recommend choice  or factory h.o. set is better as when it comes to less backpressure or install time. because I live at an apartment complex that won't even let you change a battery if it's needed without haveing to tow or pull it off the property first b4 you fix anything. :mad:
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Dogcharmer on April 21, 2007, 07:00:22 AM
If you dont plan on putting down more than 300HP then the factory HO headers are hands down the easiest to install because of the way the primary tubes are crimped to allow more room for the header bolts.

My JBA 1 5/8 headers barely have enough room to get an open end wrench on half the bolts... and forget about using a socket! It takes about an hour and a half just to tighten the bolts on one side.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: vinnietbird on April 21, 2007, 07:02:10 AM
I use BBK shorties,They literally went on in minutes.EASY.They are great.I have a set of factory Stang shorties in the garage.They are actually very good headers.They are a vast improvement over stock manifolds,and there's a power increase there.If you're interested in them,PM me.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 21, 2007, 07:34:16 AM
BBK shorties,only issue is the colum shifter linkage and its minor.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 21, 2007, 07:51:08 AM
Easiest and quickest, like everyone's already said is the stock Stang ones.  They were the easiest part of my dual exhaust back in the day.  Now I'm ready for some equal-length shorties, though, so I'll be prowling around for a cheap used set.  Those stockers literally dropped right in & cleared everything perfectly.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 21, 2007, 06:44:13 PM
My goal is to get 425hp at the rear wheel and at least 450 ft lbs. I know these engines are capable of 1100hp without nos. I have a friend who has a 96 LT1 camaro that capable of 500 hp on just the block itself. better then the ls1 which is lighter and faster but not more powerful. but will the H.O headers support this much power? :evilgrin:
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: vinnietbird on April 21, 2007, 06:50:34 PM
There is NO way I'd try to apply that kind of power (500 or more)to a factory block.No way.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 21, 2007, 07:02:59 PM
for a 302 or a LT1? the LT1 were design to accept such abuse there are a real racing/ mechanic gem.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: daboss351 on April 21, 2007, 07:53:46 PM
he means a factory 5.0.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Ether947 on April 21, 2007, 09:36:45 PM
How exactly do you plan on making +500HP? Header fitment should be the least of your worries. 5.0 blocks aren't known for their stability at that power level.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: daboss351 on April 21, 2007, 09:46:29 PM
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG9074&view=1&N=700+150+&FROM=MG
Anyone know if those will flow better over stock?
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 21, 2007, 10:21:46 PM
anything over 500hp is a waste. The chances of me using that on the street is stupid as best and I'm not into draging but more of road course type of stuff. But once made "grenade proof" and the right part combinations it can sustain high hp. Most dragers get 1100hp out of these engs. without problems. typically after years of use "over 150,000 miles the side walls of the 302 have finally cured and harded can handle more then people expect. just like all old blocks in junk yards born before then early 90's. :o
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Carpimp1987 on April 22, 2007, 03:30:37 AM
For Headers get some BBK shorties easy to put in and the price is not to bad at all.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 22, 2007, 06:54:10 AM
Quote from: daboss351;141907
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG9074&view=1&N=700+150+&FROM=MG
Anyone know if those will flow better over stock?

Yes, they will, they're bigger.  They might not fit as well though because they're a cheap brand.  You might find yourself prying on 'em like Fila had to do with his.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: 84 Fila on April 22, 2007, 08:22:40 AM
Was worth it so far. Nothing hits, they look nice, and as soon as i rustle up an H pipe, will sound nice too. I put maybe a whole aftenoon combined to get them on, and mine were used. If you surf on corral, they have headers adn H's there all the time. I got mine for $50 shipped with new fel-pro gaskets. Then I put $23 for ARP bolts and here we are.



(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/000_2203.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/000_2206.jpg)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/000_2204.jpg)
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 22, 2007, 08:42:45 AM
No worries, Mikey. I had my car from stock single exhaust, to headers, H-pipe, flowtubes and lers in an aftneroon.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: vinnietbird on April 22, 2007, 09:02:01 AM
Me too.Actually,with the BBK's and X-Pipe,(and I've said this before),I can remove the headers and X-Pipe and have them back on in half an hour.That's how smooth they both go on.No kidding.Granted,I've done it a few times and have it down to a fine art,but,with quality parts,it does make a difference.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Tbird232ci on April 22, 2007, 10:29:58 AM
Quote from: Lion-O;141917
anything over 500hp is a waste. The chances of me using that on the street is stupid as best and I'm not into draging but more of road course type of stuff. But once made "grenade proof" and the right part combinations it can sustain high hp. Most dragers get 1100hp out of these engs. without problems. typically after years of use "over 150,000 miles the side walls of the 302 have finally cured and harded can handle more then people expect. just like all old blocks in junk yards born before then early 90's. :o

You must not know the limitations of a stock 5.0 block.

(http://www.mustangevolution.com/gallery/data/500/medium/split50.jpg)

Thats about 530 to the wheels. The blocks dont handle much more than 500 to the wheels. Dragers get 1100 horsepower out of Dart blocks and the like, not a ford casting.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 22, 2007, 10:51:37 AM
Wooo! Cool Pic!
I agree 500 and your pusing your luck, Dart block or possably you may look into a new BOSS 302 Block
 
http://www.brothersperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/4218?gclid=COb6_5ehrYsCFRw8gQodElkvNw
 
Don't know what kind of power that will handel.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: vinnietbird on April 22, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
That's exactly what I meant.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: 84 Fila on April 22, 2007, 11:26:56 AM
Good to know I'm safe. I'll be LUCKY if I'm making 200-225 right now
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: daboss351 on April 22, 2007, 12:24:49 PM
What about a dss 306 block with dart iron heads? My buddys brother is selling one, hes trying to get me interested in it. I don't need it, or wanna spend money on it, but just how good is that combo?
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Dogcharmer on April 22, 2007, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: Lion-O;141863
My goal is to get 425hp at the rear wheel and at least 450 ft lbs.


Uh, 1 3/4" primaries into a 3" collector long tube and an uber built engine. Plan on spending some money... Lots of it!

I'm not trying to pee on your breakfast cerial or anything but I think you need to reassess your goals somewhat. For example, you wont get 300 RWHP out of a 302 without at least AFR or Trickflow heads and the induction and exhaust to support them. Alot of people running nice combos with AFR 165's are laying down rear wheel power numbers in the 285 to 300 region... and that's pretty good!

In order to lay down the power numbers you're talking about you need to plan on a 331 or 347 stroker with AFR 185 heads (minimum) and a good cam, intake, fuel system and exhaust... and even then it's a stretch whether you'll see 425 RWHP. Everything will have to be just right and the combo spot on.

Good luck with your build!
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Tbird232ci on April 22, 2007, 03:21:55 PM
Quote from: daboss351;142034
What about a dss 306 block with dart iron heads? My buddys brother is selling one, hes trying to get me interested in it. I don't need it, or wanna spend money on it, but just how good is that combo?


DSS uses either factory blocks, or dart blocks usually. They dont make their own block.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 22, 2007, 03:29:43 PM
Ok I know what you guys are saying, but it's possible and here are the stuff to get 1177hp out of a 302w; Tfs high port-heads/harland sharp 1.7-rockers/x-celerator-intake/hadraukic roller-ford/f-303-cam/226-226 .050/holley carb/850. no nos with majestic turbo at 32psi 156mph and 109 in 1/8. 1177rwhp 1077rwtq. I love Ford. ;)
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: 84 Fila on April 22, 2007, 03:51:26 PM
BUT thats not with a stock block. I think the spoken street limit for a stock block is 350-ish
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: daboss351 on April 22, 2007, 03:51:47 PM
Nice to know that, i might look into the motor just to see what hes asking.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 22, 2007, 04:21:49 PM
Of course most people get a stock set-up and change things here and there. but this guy stayed with the 302w as the heart of the the operation rather then putting in a chevy, dart, or stroke it. so thats my incentive to trying 425hp. and he did all of this without destroying the block.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Tbird232ci on April 22, 2007, 06:52:31 PM
I highly doubt its a factory block. It might be a 302, but not a factory block.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 22, 2007, 07:15:09 PM
Hey you can' t turn everyone on. Tbird you just have to explore the 302w and 302c a little more.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Tbird232ci on April 22, 2007, 09:00:39 PM
Show me a 302w that makes 1100 horsepower on a factory ford block.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: 84 Fila on April 22, 2007, 09:11:55 PM
Lion, your missing the point we are making. 1100 HP isn't unreal... it can be done..... Just now with a stock block. Now a dart or what ever else yeah, that could be done but a STOCK block is only good to what, 400 maybe.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 22, 2007, 09:34:49 PM
Check out 302w.com and look at the hp database on windser motor and the apps people are getting on them. I may have read it wrong but no one said or stated any mods these people are fanatics on 302w and 302c. If I am wrong then I am a dumbass. :punchballs:
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: 84 Fila on April 22, 2007, 09:45:17 PM
Again, a 302 STOCK block and a 302 DART block are like a honda and a bird. they may both be cars but totally different man. We are NOT disagreeing with you, just setting you that THIS CAN NOT BE DONE ON A STOCK FORD CASTING ENGINE BLOCK!
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: DakotaEpic on April 23, 2007, 03:01:23 AM
Quote from: Lion-O;141863
My goal is to get 425hp at the rear wheel and at least 450 ft lbs. I know these engines are capable of 1100hp without nos. I have a friend who has a 96 LT1 camaro that capable of 500 hp on just the block itself. better then the ls1 which is lighter and faster but not more powerful. but will the H.O headers support this much power? :evilgrin:

LOL not true.

And on that 1117hp 302, I'm pretty sure that alphabet cam is like making that engine breathe through a straw.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: V8Demon on April 23, 2007, 08:10:19 AM
Quote
How exactly do you plan on making +500HP? Header fitment should be the least of your worries. 5.0 blocks aren't known for their stability at that power level.


I've personally seen 3 in the 600+ flywheel HP range with my own eyes.....1 has 70 drag strip passes on it last year alone.  It dynoed at 580 HP at the tires.  The block is a .30" over from a '91 Town Car.

Quote
I know these engines are capable of 1100hp without nos


THAT is pushing it.  650-700 is possible (flywheel, of course)  1100?  Not for long....

Quote
My goal is to get 425hp at the rear wheel and at least 450 ft lbs.


Canfield heads (the big ones with the 212 cc intake runners and small combustion chamber), custom cam (http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/), dished pistons, stroker crank, windage tray, and other assorted goodies.  Expect peak power in the 6500 RPM range.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Dogcharmer on April 23, 2007, 11:11:47 AM
Quote from: Lion-O;142058
Ok I know what you guys are saying, but it's possible and here are the stuff to get 1177hp out of a 302w; Tfs high port-heads/harland sharp 1.7-rockers/x-celerator-intake/hadraukic roller-ford/f-303-cam/226-226 .050/holley carb/850. no nos with majestic turbo at 32psi 156mph and 109 in 1/8. 1177rwhp 1077rwtq. I love Ford. ;)


That is impressive... He probably had to run titanium narps.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: V8Demon on April 23, 2007, 04:45:02 PM
Quote
Ok I know what you guys are saying, but it's possible and here are the stuff to get 1177hp out of a 302w; Tfs high port-heads/harland sharp 1.7-rockers/x-celerator-intake/hadraukic roller-ford/f-303-cam/226-226 .050/holley carb/850. no nos with majestic turbo at 32psi 156mph and 109 in 1/8. 1177rwhp 1077rwtq. I love Ford.


I highly doubt it was a factory block that started life in a passenger car or truck.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 24, 2007, 12:38:51 AM
The machiene shop that did mine said anything over 500 N/A flywheel horse power and you have to use at least a Motorsports block.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: V8Demon on April 27, 2007, 10:05:47 AM
Some reading:

http://sbftech.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=69f9c906ebaeb1df6ef7d9bbee17ea85&topic=5950.0

Stock block in the 9's

http://media.putfile.com/stock-block
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 28, 2007, 03:20:25 PM
I've seen system max 2 have a 5.0 ugrade top end kit for 2,200 giving you 350hp/350tq at 5750/4000 and I was thinking about buying that and then msd ig system, headers, etc... and with that I know i can get to 425. Plus I thought about going to eagle rods for a complete rotating assembly.
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: V8Demon on April 28, 2007, 09:46:19 PM
Keep in mind those are flywheel #'s.  an MSD ignition and headers alone will not get you the extra HP you need to get to 425 at the flywheel (let alone the tires).
You'll need a good bit of work to get there.

For 425 at the tires you're gonna need some rather large heads on a 302.  The Twisted Wedge/Systemax/AFR 165's MIGHT be enough with some major port work and a good bump stick like a TFS stage 2 or something even bigger.  If it were my motor I'd go as big as possible with the heads at that point and pay the money for a custom cam  (It's what I'll be doing the next time I do up a motor).

I been eyeballin' the big 212 cc intake runner Canfields with the 54 CC combustion chamber.  Those things will FLOW!  I can't imagine the numbers you'd get with a 10:1 compression ratio and a cam made to peak out at 6500-6800 RPMS!
Title: Best headers but easy to install??
Post by: Lion-O on April 29, 2007, 07:49:26 PM
Of course it's advertise at the fly. But I knew I would have to put in work to get it all at the Rearwheel