Ok guys i'm going to try to make this the how to make your TC 5 lug and keep your abs thread,hopefully if my ideas work this may become a sticky or part of tech,(big if).
Now this is what i have learned so far(correct me if i'm wrong):
TC axles are 29 5/8" long with rear disc.
Sn95 axles require much machine work to make them fit tc rear rotors.
87-92 Ranger drs side axles are 29 5/8" long.
All Aerostar pass side axles are 29 5/8" long.
If i use one of the above ranger or aerostar 5lug axles.
Press off my abs rings and press them onto the aerostar/ranger axles this should allow me to keep my abs and go 5lug with the smaller 2 1/2 hub diameter of the TC rear rotors.
Then i have found a company on ebay called j2parts that manufactures 87-88tc Rear rotors when you order them(takes about 2 weeks i'm told)i asked them if when they make the rotors instead of drilling the 4 lug pattern into them if they could drill the new 5 by 4.5" lug pattern into them and they said yes they could for no extra charge(they want 69.99+shipping for crossdrilled rear TC rotors).
That's a pretty good deal if they understand what i'm telling them and do it correctly(kinda hard to mess up but hey,some people).
Now all that being said if someone that has spare parts lying around could verify:
87-88 TC axles are indeed 29 5/8" from axle to top.
That the hub size of a TC axle or rotor is indeed 2 1/2" across.
87-92 Aerostar or ranger axle or drum center hubs are 2 1/2"
That the TC abs rings can indeed be pressed off(that may be a hard one unless someone has already done it).
Axle size should be the same diameter as they are 28 spline so the TC rings should press right onto the ranger or aerostar ones.
I want to get this solved once and for all the best way possible so if there is any info out there i would like it for everyones best interest.
Thanks guys.:birdsmily:
Ranger axles don't have the place for the ring. And they are not as long as TC axles.
im just curious why you want the tc rear rotors? would it not be easier to use mark7 abs shafts and rotors with tc calipers? ive had both rears in my cars tc-sn95 axels and tc-lincoln axels and havent had and tire body interference
tommorow i will pull an sn shaft from one of my axels and a t-c one and put em side bay side for ya
Mark stuff will not work with the TC rear end,have read tons on how the axles/abs/calipers are totally differnet.
I need to know the exact length of a tc axle then,thought they were fox stang length????
As for sn 95 stuff the hub is to big and the face needs a 45degree bevel,very expensive machine work.
Sn 95 stuff is out in the front and the rear so i'm gonna try to stay away from that in this thread.
Mark vii is what i'm using in the front but not in the rear,too many problems and differance in the rear so i'll try and stay away from that in this thread as well.
I need an exact tc axle shaft measurement(measured the way eric measured axles in his 5lug swap thread at 29 5/8"),someone must have one lying around.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=13253&page=2
The TC 8.8 HOUSINGS are the Mustang length...the axles are longer...
See the spreadsheet...
if you look at the pic in my posts thats a tc rearend with mark axels in it,
Ok good info there but i'm kinda confused,i don't see any measurements for the TC axle shaft and that length is what i need to know to get the correct length axles.
If rangers and fox stangs are 29 5/8s from spline to what is a TC axle from spline to ????
What is a mark vii axle from spline to ????
I measured my axle hub size and it is 2 1/2" across is the mark hub size also 2 1/2"???
So cougarman are you saying that mark axles are the same length as the TC axles side by side,i thought the mark axles where longer??
Need lots more info guys keep it commin.
All 86-88 T-Bird axles are the same length. It's the 8.8" TC HOUSING that's the Mustang length. Ford probably did that to make room for the ABS ring.
Did you not look at the spreadsheet? It lists the length of TC axles and the housings. It also lists the length of the Ranger axles...all measured the same way for comparison. The info is there.
The Mk7 stuff is a mystery. The early stuff is the larger disks and longer axles (which are what is listed on that spreadsheet). At some point they switched to the 87-88TC-style rear disks (smaller). Not sure if they went with the shorter axles at that time or not. Someone with a 90-ish Mk7 needs to check their rear brakes and axles.
Dominator...those axles (Ranger) you have will not work and allow you to use the ABS. They are too short.
You're not going to get away from either machine work or just swapping SN-95 rear parts into/onto your TC axle if you want 5-lug.
anyone want me to check my 88 just tell me what you need me to do, as long as i don't have to take the diff apart
Well since '88 < '90....no....
well you said 90 ish so i wasn't sure
Were working on a sticky with just such info, see the spreadsheet.
29-5/8= 29.625
Our Spreadsheet list
TC axels as 29.91
Ranger (drivers side) as 29.16
Areostar (passenger side) 29.16 (error in spreadsheet, listed in
Column F instead of E) Where did you get your info? More reliable than ours?
Drivers or passenger side Ranger/Areostar axel? these two have differant sizes from side to side.
Most (if not all) of the info in the spreadsheet HAS been verified.
Again, where are you getting this info? It
doesn’t match ours.
Help us out here Dominator. If there are Hub size differances we could possably add that to the spreadsheet also.
PLUS
We get to give Chuck a Headache!!
:evilgrin:
Chuck i don't have any axles yet so this is a good thing.
Cougarman says his tc rear end has mark vii axles and it works perfectly in his tc rear end(have to verify what year axles he is using and do a side by side comparison with a 87-88 tc and 90-92 mark axle).
The info i got on the ranger drs and aerostar pass axles is off eric's tech at 29 5/8".
Eric's info is a little confusing where it's worded about 8.8s and tc's to me anyways.
The spreadsheet guys is cool but again a little confusing and there was a bunch of missing info.
As for axle hub diameter, i'm talking about where the rotor meets the axle.
The sn95 stuff is 2 3/4", the tc stuff is 2 1/2",not sure about the mark stuff but since the front hubs would have to be the same i would say the mark vii rear axles also have a 2 1/2"hub where the rotor mounts.
If the 90-92 mark vii axles are indeed the same length as the TC axles and same hub diameter problem solved as i will use those and my 5lug made tc rotors from j2parts will bolt right up and i'll call it a day.
However i thought the mark axles where longer therefore this would not work.
Were working on filling in the Info on the spreadsheet. If your endeavors come accost any more that’s not there please share.
We do measure the 84 Mark axels as longer than the TC by .56 (.002 under 9/16, less than the thickness of a sheet of notebook paper that measures .003) But your looking at later Mark Axels. May or may not be the same.
As far as longer Mark axels not working…
I do know as far as changing axel in the housing, the Axel Length is somewhat irrelevant. I have 30.47 Mark axels in a 90 Mustang housing where 29.18 axels came out of. What matters in them fitting is the “spline to bearing race” measurement. This is the same on both these axels I mention. However, the overall width of the assembled rear is larger.
The 84 Mark Housing is the same width as the 90 Mustang housing
I know what hub your talking about, and I can supply that info for these three axels (I have them) if it will help you
84 Mark VII 5 lug
88 Tbird 4 lug
90 Mustang 4 lug
I'll measure my Mark Hubs this evening.
But would longer axles not interfere with them staying in the housing properly(side to side play)?????
If the mark axles are only a sheet of paper longer than the TC axles would they not line up the brakes quite nicely, .003" should not make any real differance in lining them up should it????
Really the problem with the TC rear axle is the brakes, as other axles due not put the rear rotors inline with the caliper mounts correct???
Mark axles should work as cougarman suggested.
If the mark axles do indeed work is the bearing diameter the same between the TC and the mark axles????
If so in theory the abs rings should press off the mark axles and the tc ones should presson in there place given the .003" paper thin differance.
As for hub size this is most important as this decides weather the tc rear rotors fit correctly.
My hub size on my 87tc measures 2 1/2"(hard to measure with the wheel on there but sure looks 2 1/2" on the tape).
The axle i use needs also to be 2 1/2" to use the TC rear rotors so the mark axle is really the only measurement i need jim.
The bird axle and stang axle have to be 2 1/2" because i'm running 93 pony wheels right now and i ran them on my old 88bird with the 7.5" rear and the center hub of the wheels is/was perfect to the axle hubs.
Let me settle this. I was going to be selfish, and keep the information to myself, but Ill let it all out.
Use 91-92 Mark VII axles, axle end brackets, ABS sensors and rotors, then use your TC calipers, slider brackets, lines, and e-brake cables. Problem solved. You keep your ABS.
Your wheels will be pushed out 1/2" per side, buy by using the rotor, exle end brackets, and axles, it works properly.
TC rear with 84 Mark axles, caliper brackets. rotors,and calipers, I didn't keep the abs though. :D
K i checked the bearing part #s for the mark rear 8.8 and tc rear 8.8 and they are the same so that solves that,the axle diameter is the same.
Now cougarman let me get this straight you used an 87-88 tc rear axle, put 84 mark vii axle shafts in it and used what year of rear mark rotors and calipers???
What size axle hub is that at the end there????
Did the tc caliper mounts on the axle work with the mark calipers or did you have to knock off the old ones and weld on new ones?????
If you had a 5lug tc rotor would it line up with it's own caliper mount with those axles???
Are the tc and the mark rotors the same depth in a side by side comparison,i know they are bigger around but what about depth where they mount to the axle????
[/COLOR][/COLOR]Nope, they are held in by a C-clip at the Ring gear end of the Axel, they could be 20feet long and still stay in there (wouldn’t advise trying to mount 20ft long axels in there!)
Sorry, you miss understood me or I was unclear, they are "almost" 9/16 different in length (
almost= actualy .002 short of 9/16)
See above about the .003 (ignore the .003! I should not have mentioned that it’s just confusing you.. the value is .562= 9/16)
I’ll measure the hub tonight. It may be a bit late and a brief message on the Diameter as I have to run to the Home site to check some things tonight (last minute changes to my pump house design needed to be gone over) I’ll do it as soon as I get home.
[/COLOR]
Thanks jim that makes more sense.
232 that all sounds good and i apreciate the info however pushing the track out 1/2 per side won't work as i'm already worried about using 18x10s in the rear with a 27mm offset and that would push them out past the fender wells.
Did you have to knock the tc caliper mounts off and weld on the mark ones,don't want to change my rear end like that either want to try and use tc stuff(keep it very stock appering and tracking).
You know what i've found the solution,simplilist and cheapest way to keep everything the way i want(abs,trackwidth etc) and on the cheap.
I'm gonna pull my axles and send them to the machine shop.
Have the 4 lug pattern welded up and machined flat then have them redrilled and studded 5x4.5" lug pattern,axle problem solved and they look like they came that way.
Next the rear rotors,well just got thru talking again with the idiots at j2parts and they absolutley will not ship to canada no matter mow much i pay for shipping so my custom 5lug TC rotors are out the window,they didn't sound all that bright anyways and i'm sure would send me honda rotors or something.
The rotors will also be welded up and redrilled 5x4.5",this way all will fit and work perfectly,no hassles and will cost me the same as if i was to get custom rotors and new axles,probably cheaper.
This just seems to be the only solution to do what i want and i want it like stock appering.
Thanks for all the info guys and sorry about gettin everyone's hopes up to a 5lug abs TC solution,this will be my solution,pics will come when done in a month or so.
Dominator
Hub size on my 1984 Mark VII rear axels is 2-3/4
I checked, ReChecked, Checked my Mustang axels (2.50 FREAKED OUT :eek: becouse I just spent $600 today to get tires mounted on those Mustang Bullitts I'm planning on putting on these axels, test Mounted my Bullitts Heavy Sigh they fit, snugly)
again (now that I went off on a tangent)
Hub size on my 1984 Mark VII rear axels is 2-3/4
Thanks jim appreciate the info,glad your wheels fit.
Dominator- I have 88 LSC axles, rotors, calipers and ABS on my 87 TC. No problems with fit or spacing.
How did that work,you used the axles rotors and calipers off of the mark????
Did the caliper mounts bolt right up to the tc brake mounts on the axle????
Did it not push your rear wheels out 1/2" per side???
I did have to grind off the anti-moan brace is on the TC rear, but the 91-92 Lincolns dont use a brace or bracket. The mounting bracket is actually thicker than that of the TC, so they didnt use the anti-moan brace.
I wish i had pictures from my build.
I'm putting the same as Tommym on my 88 Dominator.
91 Mustang 8.8 housing and gears.
1984 Lincoln Mark VII Axels, Rotors, and calipers.
and I don't expect any problems with fit.
First 1/2 isn’t much
Aside from that overall Axel width is not the only thing that matters.
My original 4-Lug 14” wheels have a 5” backspacing
The new 5-Lug 17x9 wheels I’m putting on have a 6” backspacing.
This adds up to actually 1” narrower if measured on the Inside of the tire even though the axel is 1” wider.
So while my overall axel is 1” wider (1/2 per side) the inside of the tires between the wheel wells (what counts the most) will only be 1” narrower, ½ per side.
I measure my existing tires and come up with 1-1/2 inch clearance on the inside tire to body per side. This set up should take that down to 1” and that should be fine.
Then I measure 12” MAX allowable tire width till I hit the outer fender. The Tires I bought are 275/40/17 If I remember right there about 11.5 wide
Sweet as pie!! IN THEORY: This is not actually installed yet!
The axles, calipers and rotors are from the 88 Mark. It was done by the guy I bought the car from. I just replaced the calipers on the rear and the ones I bought are for a Mark. From checking the rear end my rims are inside the top inside lip of the fender. I have 17x9 Cobra rims with 245/45ZR17 Goodyear F1's.
Appreciate the info but when you figure how much new rotors,calipers,brake pads and used axles cost,you can send your Tc axles and rotors to moser and have them both filled and redrilled for 85 for the axles and 60 for the rotors+shipping of course but this way they are guaranteed to work without any issues.
In your case yes, probably the best way to do it.
my origonal rear is a 7.5 drum brake. So I had nothing really to start with. Your TC rear has all the goodies to start with, you just need the lugs
If you can't get anything shipped to Canada,just have them sent to one of us and have us ship it to you.I have a friend in Finland who was building an EFI Panrtera and the company was going to charge him 3X what it would've cost me,so,he ordered what he want,had it shipped to me,and then I shipped it to him.Done.
Thanks vinnie i might take you up on that offer one of these days.
I just used 94-98 mustang axles and my T/C rotors redrilled for 5 lug
no issues other the opening up the center hole in the rotor a hair