I FINALLY found a plastics company willing to do small batches of repop plastic parts. They specialize in lenses and lighting but they are willing to work with just about anything. So what do we need made? What about cost? Here's my "idea" list:
87-88 outer parking lights, original and clear
87-88 inner parking lights (TC style)
83-86 bumper lights, amber and clear
85-87 door pull clips
88 2-piece door pull clips
87-88 taillight outer pieces (the big clear part only)
Is that what's "in demand"? What are you willing to pay? What am I forgetting?
Just as an FYI, HeadlightWarehouse.com makes Inners (LH only)/Outers/Headlights for base 87-88 Tbirds.
$52/$125/$77.10 respectively.
The seatbelt holders that bolt to the headrest would be nice.
Seatbelt sleeves.
They do not "make" them. That is what is left in Ford stock.
Ah. Good to know. How did you find that out?
I know things :D
There's about 25 companies on that "program". They basically make agreements with a dealership, get into the manufacturer's parts system and "see" how many lights are left and what they can pay for them. Problem is, the quantities are very low, and they often go out of stock and the "company" doesn't bother to update their website. Notice how only OEM lights are available, no clears, etc. Also the "popular" lights are missing because even shady dealers won't back door them, like 97-03 Grand Prix taillights.
Sorry for the continued hijack, but it is interesting that they can get headlights (and I have a pair of them), but the dealers can't seem to find them (at least for me).
As far as prices for repos. I'd pay "a good bit", since you can't get them in good shape anywhere else. I drive cars that cost $40/mo. in insurance and have hit the bottom depreciation wise, I've got some $$$ to spare. :D
what about lower trim pieces im needin one for the left front fender on my turd.
How about 87-88 Cougar headlight lenses? The T-Bird stuff available might be old stock, but Cougar lights aren't stocked at all...
Second the 87-88 cat lights.We are the minority though.
^^^^ Yeah.
The door handle "cups" for the standard door panels.They fit around and under the inner door handle.
HELLO. The thing ALL these cars need by now is the ed vinyl side mouldings. The old ones are trashed, you can't find them in the dealerships, and they've never made reproductions.
It's actually the biggest thing cosmetically keeping me from doing the bodywork on my car. I can't stand the way it looks without them, and I can't stand the way it looks with beat up / curling ones.
You can polish the ed headlights, and the door pulls are still in junkyards. We NEED quality trim pieces to be reproduced.
You must only be looking about 1" around youself. I literally have at LEAST 5 COMPLETE sets of near mint rubber moding for an 87/88 TC here. I can find the "chrome" base stuff everywhere. Now the 83-86, especially the front fender pieces, I'll give you that. But those aren't plastic. I have no idea who to go to on those. Not to mention I have to START with a MINT set to repo.
SO, I need a set of door "cups" for the base panels, a set of 83-86 front bumper lights, and a complete set of 6 Cougar headlamps.
My side mouldings, and the ones on the TC I junked, and the ones on my old '87 Sport, were all near mint. A scuff here and there, maybe, but no curling and certainly not trashed
All '87-88 lights smoked.
I'd love to find some clear bumper lights for '83-'86.
I 2nd the clear 83-84 bumoer lights. Also if you older 83-86 outisde door trim is curling up take it off. Then peel the metal tape stuff of and let it sit on a flat surface. The trim is made from ployurethane and it will comform to the flat surface as long as you remove the metal backed sticky tape stuff. I pull my trim off and have done this and it is all flat now even the ends where it used to curl up now it is nice and flat. It would be nice to have some of the 83-84 wide dual ribbed trim some place where we could get new.
cant really buy anything at the moment but how bout the 83 tbird/cougar clear signal covers? maybe people would like those
second vote for wanting these
I don't have a set of the cups.If I did,you could borrow them.Finding ANY intact would be a miracle.
The ones in my Cougar were mint too! I'll keep my eyes peeled.
I'm going to start with just the door pull clips for the high-line door panels. They are small and in high demand. If they do a good job on those I'll work up into doing the lights.
Just a thought but the clear lense for the inner door light on the Turbo Coupe/LX door panel would be nice. My passenger one is broken (I glued it back in:hick: ) and I can't find a good one that isn't broken.
I have 3 used pairs here that are perfect. Email me :hick:
Also maybe the 83-84 shifter plate. Those door hadle cups those are the ones that go on the arm rest pad below the door handle right? If so I might have a set in red if someone needs them. Gonna half to go back to the donor car.
I know it's not factory, or small for that matter, but I think it would be great to find some place that'll make the rear window louvres again. I personally like the looks of them on the birds, plus it reminds me of the old Mach 1 stangs. :hick:
I tried to get that set on eBay to use as a core for remanning, but $450 is hot sauce for that low of a seller!
I can dream though! :hick: Hopefully some around here in the future might come across one that can be used. Again.... dreaming.:D
I work in a plastics factory and i was wondering what type of supplier and process are you going to be using? What about the molds? Is it an injection process? I can't see them making a lense without an expensive mold! Where i work we have $250,000 plus molds.
included is a picture that isn't an attachment. Because i'm trying to help the board and because it's neat!
8 ton mold...
(http://home.columbus.rr.com/jlc302/strongbad.jpg)
Cause they're not going to be plastic. ;)
Trust me, these guys have been making this stuff for 30 years, the quality is EXCELLENT.
He's talking about the outer lenses, which are clear. With the inner part being black it just makes them LOOK smoked.
Anyway...if there was any chance they'd make '87-88 bird clear corners for a REASONABLE price, I might be interested in those.
They will never, ever, be cheaper then Mustang lights.
Well I know THAT...most of those are made in Taiwan or Korea or China now anyway.
If they were good quality lights that didn't leak, and they weren't more than $50, I'd probably be interested. That's why I said reasonable.
Why not try to find an intact FMS kit for the cars? I'm sure someone would want an original style kit for on the cars. I'm sure this is WAY out of the question
$50 a light will not happen. $150 for the pair of corners will be more likely.
FILA, I've tried but getting a complete set-up is hard.
Is a whole set hard to find or just all the peices? I'd like the whole thing minus the grill. Or even design out your own style of body kit.
I meant $50 a pair. $150 a pair? **** that, I don't want them that bad.
HAHAHAHAHA!! Mustang ones are $40 and you expect TBird ones to only go for $50?!?
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/iwwida.pvx?;item?item_no=LRS-15201CL%20%20%20%201&comp=LRS
I swear I bought a set for my '90 Mustang for way less than that. Like $20-25, when the hell did the "regular" ones get so expensive?
The "crystal" corners are like $15 a pair on ebay but I can't really find any regular ones, except one pair for $46. *shrug*
Regardless, $150 is more than I can/would want to spend on clear corners especially after I just finished cleaning up mine.
How about head lights? For people who have yellowed ones (I don't) it's getting harder and harder to find good used ones. As time goes by it'll only get worse......
Yeah, the yellow headlight problem would be a real pain then. Some nice repo headlights would be wonderful...and tailights too.
For 87/88 Tbirds btw.
Are they limited to exact duplicates or can they also do customizations? For instance, for my cupholder mod I dremeled out a cutout in the lighter panel but others might appreciate a panel that's cupholder-ready. Another idea might be a panel for the area to the left of the steering wheel with a similar cutout as the TC panel that goes over the ride control switches. That would open up a really nice moddable area (tach, anyone?)
If they can handle customizations then I could probably think of some other stuff, too.
how about map pockets for TC-style doo panels, those are hard to find in good shape. Probably not feasible though, since they're kinda "padded"...just a thought though,..
And now you know why nobody makes anything for these cars. Anybody who has tried to sell a part for them (I'm sure you can agree, Mike) knows that the owners of these cars are cheap. We all want the world but expect it to be free, or close to it. People restoring other cars will spend thousands for a part that shouldn't be worth more than $50. We gripe about paying $50 for parts that should cost hundreds. Until that changes we'll have to stay used to the fact that to 99% of the population (including many members of this board) these cars are beaters.
You've got to remember, Mustangs are far, far more popular than our cars ever were. In its worst year the Mustang probably sold more units than all of 83-88 T-Birds and Cougars combined. Add to that the fact that Mustangs were marketed and sold to enthusiasts, while our cars were marketed and sold to people that think of cars as appliances. People modify, and aren't afraid to spend money on, their Mustangs. Finding a 100% stock Mustang is almost as hard as finding a modified T-Bird/Cougar.
All of this leads to economies of scale. A company that makes, say, clear corner lights, for 87-93 Mustangs might pump 100,000 of the things out. They'll sell so well that several other manufacturers will come up with copies as well as other styles.
Conversely, somebody like Michael offers to make not just aftermarket-type parts, but stock replacement parts as well. He might pop a few hundred (I'd be surprised if it was that high). Of course he's got to ask more for them. And the so-called "fans" of these cars will all but ensure that he wasted his time anyway by fighting and dickering with him every step of the way.
What I can't understand is why somebody would pay upwards of $350 for a FMS 140 MPH speedo, something that does absolutely nothing to help the performance OR appearance of the car, but yet something that people can actually see, such as an aftermarket clear corner lamp, has trouble getting $150.
I dunno, Mike, you have more patience than I do. If I was offering to make impossible to find parts for these cars and people were offering to pay junkyard prices for my efforts I'd pull the plug on the whole idea. If it wasn't for the fact that my sequencer kits also happen to work in plenty of enthusiast-type cars (Mustangs, Firebirds, Camaros, Grand Nationals, etc) and if I had to market them to Thunderbirds and Cougars only, I'd have gone broke 7 years ago.
I wouldn't even pay $100 for a 140 mph speedo.
Also, besides the popularity, I don't think it's a fair comparison to compare the '87-93 Mustang to the '87-88 Thunderbird. The Mustang had the same body style for SIX years. The '87-88 bodystyle birds were made for, well...two. Even if the car was popular, that's a pretty niche market for '87-88-specific items.
And hey, if I was loaded, I might pay $150 for clear corners. But I'm not, I'm on a budget, so the majority of my money goes toward performance stuff. Plus the outside of my car is pretty rough at the moment anyway.
I totally agree with Thunder Chicken. Our cars are low-run compared to Mustangs and our parts are rare by comparison. Rare + new/custom = expensive. That's simply a fact of life. As always, what things are worth to us varies by what our needs or desires are (I have no use for a 140mph speedo so I wouldn't buy one, but I might be interested in other things). I don't think the expensive part is going away, though. With a niche market like ours I don't know if a business is really viable, unless maybe the product offering is broad enough to make it worthwhile for the seller.
Well, ABM has been viable for 3 years :D In fact, it's my full-time, take-home pay job.
The best-selling "TBird specific" item I make is the console decals. I've sold over 30 of them. NO company was willing to make less then 1,000. SO I made them myself. That allowed for higher quality, customization, and build-to-order capability. Every part I make is like that. Even "big ticket" items like the Hella foglights. Hella is remaking them for me in the original mold 12 at a time, but ONLY because I bought out their ENTIRE remaining stock.
Guys, I'm sorry that you have to pay more. I really try hard to keep my prices reasonable. If the lights are $150/set, then that's all I can do. But I WILL guarentee that the quality will be better then the Chinese Mustang lights.
Well don't forget, there are a lot of die-hard Turbo Coupe guys over at NATO that will be more than willing to buy some of this proposed stuff. You can't confine your thinking to just this board when making a custom part. In fact, the NATO guys should be the first priority: they have no problem shelling out for parts.
We're ALL on a budget here. I've yet to come across anyone that has one of these cars, and money, at the same time. The proposed parts (any of them, doesn't matter) have inherent value because they are brand spanking new. So the question is, what are you willing to sacrifice to get those new parts? You could save up, buy them, use them, and have the satisfaction of knowing that you have top-quality pieces that are brand new and perfect and were made by an enthusiast, for other enthusiasts. Or you can keep the py parts you have now and whine that you don't have enough money for the new parts. Take your pick. If you don't understand the meaning of the word value by now, at least when it comes to these cars and parts, then you'll never get it.
I'm sticking with NOS parts and letting you guys battle this one out...
P.S. The FMS 140mph speedos are only selling what the market is willing to bear right now. It's the fault of neither the buyers nor the sellers. Just goes to show you, even though we figured out how to make your own, people still want the originals...
I'd pay a hundred bucks easy for a 140 mph speedo.I have my car faster than 95 on occassion and would really like to know how fast.The digi gauge on Blue was modded for 199 and we got it over 130.I like knowing.It does have a function.
150, 200 Bucks. The thing is it is new. And not twenty years new. I would not have a problem dishing out that kind of money for excellent replacement parts.
Just got to save up and get a little bit at a time. Been having to do that on the cat already, so why stop.
Call me curious, but i really would love to know more about the process. Type of material, how it's made, etc... I just don't see them making a lens out of anything but plastic that's injected.
how about making just the lenses themselves?
not the whole headlight, but just the clear piece.
One could epoxy the new, clear lens onto the old headlight "bucket"
and have a "new" headlight...
And since the Cougar uses the same lenses as Lincoln Conti's...there could (theoretically) be a "crossover" market..
I know depending on cost, I'd buy a set right now.
in fact, I have a an old set of headlight lenses I'd donate to the cause for R&D purposes ;)
That crome paint stuff on the inside of the headlight gets really faded though, and can pretty much just wipe off.
I have no problem paying that kind of money for a set of headlights or corners. With these cars I'd expect to be paying vintage prices on parts. And hell, I'll be the first person to admit, that one of the things I love the most about my Pontiac is that there is a huge aftermarket for it. It's great to be able to say I want a body kit... then hop online and buy one. But seriously I commend Mike for doing this, and if I wind up with another Fox bird... then I'd be glad to pay good money for good parts.
Right now we are looking at "just" the lenses. Alkaid paint renders rechroming obsolete so there's no reason to do the housings. It will help keep the cost down as well.
Thanks for the kind words everybody.
First up is the door pull clips. Stay tuned....
LMK about those clips. I need 'em, as you know
What are door pull clips?
The liitle covers that cover the screws on the door pull straps on the Turbo Coupe style door panels.
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/84fila/red_8386_chromecobraR_motorsport.jpg)
This grill if you can ever find one. It's FMS right?
Me too, BUT we have to find one to copy first. Anyone know of one? I'd give a limb for one of these on the Fila