I finally got done putting the Tbird back together, which entailed a new rack and pump. The new pump whines like a banshee...and after driving it around town for a bit, the lines are too hot to grasp. I've bled the pump, but it made no difference.
Does a pump break in, or is this reman. Motorcraft pump a piece of junk right out of the box?
Which rack? I think the pumps are different for the 20:1 and 15:1 so that could be your problem.
Heh his isn't either.
Naw, they all make noise out of the box. There is a break-in period; in my experience the noise gets softer in about a week of normal driving (or in my case, a summer of driving the convertible LOL). You could also try adding some stop-leak stuff to the fluid. It's real thick and should coat the gears up enough for quieter operation sooner. But it's also expensive. I guess it would be your call.
Let me also add that, with a 5.0 engine, if one eliminates the a/c compressor, uses the FRPP kit to move the p/s pump up to where the a/c compressor was, and also installs a new p/s pump at the same time...with a hollow cowl induction fiberglass hood...the gear whine from the p/s pump is incredibly annoying. At least in the stock position (low in the engine bay) there's some sound deflection. But up high like that...yeah, I don't think I'll ever do that again LOL.
Variable ratio?
Either way, the two different pumps are not compatible.
'03-'04 Cobra rack
I forget the differences. rockauto shows two pumps for the 3.8/5.0 cars. STP28RM [w/Handling Package] and STP29RM [w/o Handling Package] I bought the STP28RM.
The only differences between our pumps is flowrate and maximum (blowoff) pressure. You may get different steering characteristics from a pump with a lower blowoff pressure (less assist), but as far as I know...it isn't detrimental to put a P/S pump was wasn't originally spec'd for your specific configuration.
The pump made it ~5000 miles before the pulley bearing took a dump.
Job 1 indeed! :mad:
I blew a pump because I was a dimwit and thought that "power steering" used "power steering fluid" - doh! When I (luckily) had a leak in my brand new rack/pump/lines setup, I did a search and found out that our power steering uses tranny fluid - doh! System is so smooth now it's not funny :D
Although the pump bearings was rapidly giving up the ghost, it wasn't the root of my problem.
Turns out some of the pulleys are misaligned. When I installed my SN95 condenser, I also got rid of the factory HR980 compressor and installed an FS6 compressor with brackets from an '86 3.8. The 6P148A (The FS6's little brother) was offered from 5/85 to 1/86 for 3.8s. Upon closer inspection just yesterday, I noticed the P/S and A/C are about 1 belt groove closer to the engine than the crank pulley (and probably all the other pulleys). It was fine and dandy with the smog pump, but without it the increased free length between the crank pulley and the alternator allowed the belt to jump pulley grooves on the crank. The racket I heard was the belt jumping from normal position to one groove back and then forward again every few seconds.
My ghetto quick fix was to pull the P/S pulley outwards about 1/2 a groove. Seems to have worked. I'll take a close look at it next week.
Below is the best picture I have of the belt routing post HR980.
(http://griffshp.com/belchja/forums/232cuofpowerrrr.jpg)
wait we have to run transmission fluid in our power steering!?!
Type F
opps
best drain mine and swap it before it goes on the road!
it kills all of the seals and gives you that famous "ford whine" you hear in parking lots.
o my car has whined since day one, got to love that ford whine, cant hear mine over the straight 2 1/2 exhaust, CAI, and the fan.
I'm still running my stock pump,with 15-1 rack.I had a problem with oil blowin out the cap at highway speeds,bought a new cap problem solved.I ain't got F in it either.And no whine!
I actually blew 2 pumps using PS fluid - use it at your own risk.
Cougar5.0 I know recently I told you of the larger p/s pulley. You did that right? When coming down from a fun little high rpm jaunt my cars p/s pump is loud for a couple miles then it goes quiet again. Yours do this?
I got the big ol' pulley - thanks for the tip! I went right down to the junkyard and found one after that. So far, so good. I still think that using nearly 100% PS fluid contributed to the early pump failure of my 2nd pump.
My second pump (Cardone) has been a bit quiter than the first. It still is noisy as f*ck- screaming "LOOK AT THIS WHITE TRASH RIGHT HERE!!!" when I turn. Or at least that's what it sounds like to me...:p
Time for #3. I sure hope this one is quieter...
Type F is the factory spec. But there is some stuff I sell at work that list it as compatible with all of them even Honda. Some of that whine is the pump and some of that is air. I tend not to have problem with a whining PS pump. The key is getting ALL the AIR OUT! If you don't like the whining sound make sure you get all the air out. To do this is easy. Jack the front end up put it in stands. Start the car. Then turn the steering wheel from almost lock to almost lock several times. That should purge the air out of there. Once you done it should be quite and not much if any whine.
Stuckman
:D I KNOW YOUR PAIN! When I hadn't gotten my exhaust leak fixed, everytime I left a stoplight the rpms would go up and the exhaust would scream "Look at this POS right HERE! He's moving! Everybody run!"
"Or at least that's what it sounded like to me...:p"
But it's all better now....
I've got Type F in the pump and have already purged all the air. The whining is not due to air.
Ive been running atf for years in my p/s. I am about to switch to motor oil of a thin variety to see what happens. I cant stand the noise but its common on most of our cars.
My 21 year old p/s pump is as quiet as a church mouse. I don't know what whine you guys are talking about :dunno:
its like a low fluid whine...... annoying as Hell.........
Oh that noise. Nope mine doesn't do that.
No it isn't always. That fixes the problem the majority of the time. Trust me I tell people this many many many times a day. They all seem to like it! Even had one customer come in a pay me $50 for that piece of info. Had his car to 3 different shops no one could fix it. If you did what I said the way I said maybe yours would be quite too!
Stuckman
I've never used tranny fluid in my power steering. My Ford manuals say to use power steering fluid.
Anyway if Ford could make the ps pump whine sound more like a supercharger we wouldn't complain so much.:D
I once bought a rebuilt pump from a vendor I can't remember, and in the instructions I was told to raise the front end, attach an a/c vacuum pump regulated down to 10"hg. The hose was connected to a modified p.s. pump cap, I think I used a #5jic to 1/8th pipe, but it fit on the yellow r-12 hose.Start the engine, turn the wheel from lock to lock until the noise is gone with vac. pump running. The only reason I know this worked, is because I rebuilt the box on my Bronco, and it whined like an old washwoman. I thought the pump ped-out too. It didn't, it cost me $115.00 for a rebuilt pump that I didn't need, but the Proper instruction was worth every penny. ipsd is right, it's air. In the past 35 years of being a Ford guy, I have used dexron 1,2,3, Type F, and almost pure Lucas power steering treatment with no whine. The Lucas is in my '88 Bird now, to cure a leaky steering input shaft seal, which it did.
How would one attach a vacuum pump? Lots of duct tape? :hick:
Dribble a little water on the rib side of the belt with a turkey baster while it is running. If the noise goes away you know it's a belt problem.
Turning the belt around so it runs in the opposite direction may help.
I had lots of noise with a Pirelli belt.
The NAPA belt I have on now is nice and quite.
use a Robinair vac pump for a.c. evacuation, connected to a sacrificial p.s. reservior cap via jic/an to npt fitting. p.s. this pic has nothing to do with the thread,just trying to figure how to upload from remote server,sorry.
I'd leave that to my oil less pump that pulls 28". I don't need to be gumming up my Robinair with this filthy stuff. I pull a system clean with the first and pull full vacuum with the second. ;)
So just modify a cap. I didn't know if there was some other way. All I've seen and heard shops do is the whole raise front end and turn from side to side thing. Vacuum DOES sound much quicker though.
X2 on the belt chirp too. Mine chirps because of an embossed logo on the back side of the belt. I just put a new rack/pump/hoses on one of mine this weekend. Very quiet, all of it. I never gave pump/rack mismatch a thought, and wound up with the 2.5 turn rack. BUT, a big difference is, I did NOT pour fluid in it and then use the engine to pump out the air. That will cause foaming of the fluid, and you'll NEVER get all the air out unless you use a vacuum pump.
What I did was:
Left the belt off.
Turned the pump by hand with the rack centered until it quit bubbling back into the reservoir.
Turned it to right lock, repeated.
Turned it to left lock, repeated.
Back to center, and repeat.
At each position, I kept the reservoir topped off so as not to pump more air in. Turning it by hand also guaranteed I wasn't going to spray Type F all over my basp00get if I screwed up somewhere.
Finally, when I was satisfied no more air was coming out, I put the belt back on and fired it up. Quiet as a mouse, except for the crickets on steroids (belt squeaks) No whine whatsoever unless I go to left or right lock. ANY hydraulic pump is going to whine if it's stalled and relieving. The main source of belt squeak is going to come from the water pump pulley since it uses the flat side of the belt, and can easily trap air under the belt. ANYTHING greasy or oily on that belt or the pulley is going to result in some nasty squeaks, and probably glazing of the backside of the belt. Not to worry. Scuff the WP pully with some 80 grit paper, put the belt on, and scuff the backside of the belt. Easy peasy.
I also have to ask if you got the hoses on in the right holes on the rack. Return line goes in the hole closest to the firewall (back). Pressure line closest to the radiator. Hook those up backward, and you'll probably destroy the rack and the pump.
Failing bearings is usually a good sign the belt is TOO tight. You'll be putting in a water pump soon too if you're killing PS Pump bearings. Tighten it enough to stop the squealing, then quit, especially on cars equipped with a screwdown type idler adjustment. This is one of the reasons I LOVE the spring loaded idlers on newer vehicles. I want one on each of my Birds. If something starts stalling, the idler just gives way and lets the belt slip. I'd rather slip a belt than break something off. Not to mention, a belt change takes all of 5 minutes with the spring type idlers.
Both the water pump and PS Pump use sleeve bearings. The crank bearing is massive enough it doesn't even notice the tension. But the WP and PS bearings are pretty small, and like I said, just SLEEVES. The alternator and air pump use roller bearings, and the idler has ball bearings. They'll stand the tension a lot better. That is NOT to say you can't fatigue the shafts, though. The alternator pully is so small, not much of a moment arm there. As compared with the rest, though, they're all large pulleys, and put a lot of force on the shaft. Belts are amazingly strong, and can do severe damage if over tightened. The PS hoses should not get hot other than from ambient engine bay heat. That's why there's no cooler in that system. If they are, something is terribly wrong. The loud whine and hot hoses suggest a stalled pump that is bypassing, regardless of what kind of fluid you put in it, short of water.