Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 18, 2005, 01:07:50 AM

Title: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 18, 2005, 01:07:50 AM
So I bought this coil-over kit for my 5.0 88 TC car and the guy that sold it to me assured me that it'd fit my car, with my wheels and tires saying, "yeah, my buddy has the exact same setup!"

Long story short, I installed everything and my 17x9 R's didn't fit!  I probably needed a good inch of clearance.  So my question is:

Would some kind of tubular custom spindles, made to move the spindle strut mounts straight in toward the center of the car, really mess up the geometry of the suspension?
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 18, 2005, 08:16:00 AM
You shouldn't need anything special like that.  Are you sure the backspacing on your wheels is correct?  Are your springs too long?  Folks do this swap all the time. 

We need a bit more info on what you have and what you tried to install.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: cougarman on January 18, 2005, 08:38:11 AM
Coilovers with 17x9 Saleen wheels, no clearence problems. :dunno:
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 18, 2005, 08:42:01 PM
Well, I'm sure that this setup doesnt fit.  I don't remember the brand of the kit anymore, but it was a Fox body, street coil-over kit (bought front and rear).  When I put the front coilovers in (never bothered with the rears after this), the springs stuck out from the strut too much and the tires didn't clear.  BTW, I had the wheels and tires on for a while before I put the coil-overs on (actually, they are still on the car) and I had no backspacing problems what-so-ever. 

I guess I should have got a second opinion on this, since I knew I only had about 1/4 - 1/2" clearance between the tire and the strut, but I figured the coilovers changed something to make enough clearance, since this salesman was so sure.  So is there anything I can do?
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Tbird232ci on January 18, 2005, 09:18:42 PM
got any pics of the setup? any details?
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 18, 2005, 10:08:19 PM
Well, perhaps the springs are too long.  You kind of have to think that if the strut is close to the wheel/tire (as they normally are on these things when you fit wide tires) you can't have a spring that's an extra 1" around or more that is going to fit.

10" springs are usually what you need.

Since you can't tell us what kit, and don't have any pics we really can't help you much more.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: lowcat on January 19, 2005, 12:30:10 PM
Quote from: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com
Well, I'm sure that this setup doesnt fit.


Maybe you didn't install it right.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 20, 2005, 06:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chuck W
Well, perhaps the springs are too long.  You kind of have to think that if the strut is close to the wheel/tire (as they normally are on these things when you fit wide tires) you can't have a spring that's an extra 1" around or more that is going to fit.


Yes, I realize this, and did at the time of ordering.  I know it sounds kind of stupid that I ordered it knowing of the clearance.  But I didn't know exactly how the kit was set up.  All I know is after 30 min on the phone, the guy promised it would work great with my exact setup.


Quote from: lowcat
Maybe you didn't install it right.


LOL, its really not that hard.  Put the coil-overs on and bolt the strut back in the only place it fits.


Well anyway, the car is 2000 miles away, so is the kit.  I'll try to get some info and measurments.  And sorry, this was back before my digital camera.  No pics!
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 20, 2005, 06:39:45 PM
Oh yeah, and one other thing that I forgot.  I dont think it matters but in case it does and you read my signature and say "hey, you left this out...":

When I installed the kit, I had stock TC spindles on, I now have SN spindles for the cobra brakes.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 20, 2005, 10:17:10 PM
Well, my first thoughts are you have maybe 12" springs on there....that would cause the problem....
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 21, 2005, 02:04:14 AM
Ok, well I see if I can get them measured.  Thanks....
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: bduly on January 21, 2005, 02:52:30 AM
Cougarman.... what coil overs do you have? Brand, specs, springrate? Any problems with your install? How mush adjustment do you get with them height wise? Any and all information about your install would be great. Thanks.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: cougarman on January 21, 2005, 09:06:26 AM
They are from Granatelli motorsport, iirc, they had about 3-4 inches of adjustment the springs were 500lbs. It's been awhile since I had them, traded them for a set of Cobra r's and some air tools. If I find any more info I'll post it. :grinno:
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: cougarman on January 21, 2005, 09:18:58 AM
here's a pic of the kit....
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Tbird232ci on January 21, 2005, 01:44:04 PM
were those for the stock struts?
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 21, 2005, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: cougarman
They are from Granatelli motorsport, iirc, they had about 3-4 inches of adjustment the springs were 500lbs. It's been awhile since I had them, traded them for a set of Cobra r's and some air tools. If I find any more info I'll post it. :grinno:


500# springs on a coil-over?!?!?  That is WAY high for a street car, and very few, if any off the shelf struts will be able to cope w/ that wheel rate.  You sure about that number?
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: cougarman on January 21, 2005, 02:25:02 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci
were those for the stock struts?

TC struts.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: cougarman on January 21, 2005, 02:26:02 PM
Quote from: Chuck W
500# springs on a coil-over?!?!?  That is WAY high for a street car, and very few, if any off the shelf struts will be able to cope w/ that wheel rate.  You sure about that number?


No, I am not. Been quite awhile, I know the car rode "real" stiff, almost solid. :dunno:
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 21, 2005, 03:25:40 PM
With 500# springs I can see why...oof!
I can't remember what the exact ratio is on the Foxes, but that is almost like a 1000# spring in the stock location.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: cougarman on January 21, 2005, 04:10:30 PM
Yep, that's why they were taken off, Mustang springs gave a much smoother ride. :)
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 22, 2005, 09:07:38 AM
Granetelli, I'm pretty sure thats my brand!  And upon seeing the pic, that's exactly what I had.  Springs look like pretty much the same length too.  But, when I measure mine, measure just the spring, not as an assembled kit, right?

Does anyone have pics of this kit on the car, wheel off?  Also, what tires sizes are all of you with 17x9's running and about how much clearance do you have between spring and tire?  Thanks
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 22, 2005, 09:20:45 AM
Right, you just measure the free-length of the spring with no load.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Elsmere on January 22, 2005, 08:40:57 PM
Generally, the springs supplied with coil-overs are short enough that the lower spring perch is above the top of the front tire. You can just buy shorter springs in the correct diameter/length/rate to get the lower perch far enough up the strut to not cause interference with the tire/wheel. By the way, what backspacing are you running on the r's on the front?

Holy God, 500lb/in coil-overs? That's equivalent to 1800lb/in springs in the standard location! For future refefence, the motion ratios for fox cars are:

Front:
conventional springs: .25
coil-overs: .9

Rear:
conventional springs: .5
coil-overs: .95

To calclulate wheel rate, multiply your spring rate by theses numbers.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Johns331 on January 23, 2005, 09:31:27 AM
I'm using a 10" 375lb Hypercoil spring on my TBird.  This is with Koni double adjustable struts.  The ride is firm and controlled,  but not harsh.
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 24, 2005, 12:58:44 AM
I think the backspacing on my wheels is 5.95 inches.  They are the proper wheels for a fox car...
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 26, 2005, 02:27:32 AM
One other thing I just thought of...

When I put the coil-overs in, I modified the stock TC caster/camber plates (or whatever the stock pieces would be called) to work with the coil-overs.  In the end, the top of the strut was still at the same location as it was before the coil-overs or before the plate modification.  So I figured this should be fine, but maybe not...??  And if I was to use different plates, which ones should I use (since the holes arent reversed on one side like on a mustang)?
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 26, 2005, 07:11:28 AM
The c/c plates (or the stock upper strut mounts) will have no effect on the spacing between the strut body and the wheel/tire.  It is a fixed mounting at the spindle and the distance will always be constant regardless of how much you mive the upper mount around..
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 26, 2005, 02:02:02 PM
Thanks Chuck, I understand that of course.  I was thinking vertical changes though.  Maybe a plate other than the TC plate would cause the strut to mount higher in the engine compartment, raising the splindle and therefore changing the angle of the entire assembly?
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: Chuck W on January 26, 2005, 02:55:08 PM
Nope..it will still be the same distance between the strut and the wheel/tire no matter how high you mount it.  It is a fixed mounting point at the spindle....

I'm still going to guess your primary problem is that the springs are too long. 

Shooting some pics would help us out greatly....
Title: Re: Custom made spindles for coil-overs?
Post by: BookSixStudios@yahoo.com on January 26, 2005, 03:40:22 PM
Ok, thanks....I'm working on measurement and pics.  The car and kit are in WI at my parents house.  I'm in CA so it's kinda tough!