I just got another project car and want to put a dohc 4v in it. Obviously the 96-98 cobra stang would be the prime choice, but i want to do this for the least amount of money i possibly can.
Doing some research i have found that the lincoln contintal has what seems to be the same engine. Both have the same aluminum block, same compression ration, all the rod and main clearences are the same, even the vin code is the same. There are some obvious and not so obvious differences though.
I know the intake, and cams are different. Does anyone know of what else is different, like the heads, oil pan, pistons, fuel injectors, ect...?
I guess my main thing is, i can get a lincoln dohc for $150, and buy a set of cobra cams and an intake for like $500. If thats all it takes (mechanically speaking) then it seems like an obvious choice over $3000+ for an engine out of a cobra.
Any input would be great, im still only in the planning stages!:birdsmily:
I thought on the Mk8 the block was iron? I could be wrong on that though..
EDIT- Yup, I was wrong...all aluminum heads and block.
Cams are the same, its the intake and exhaust that are different.... Im pretty sure.
The intake cams are different, but the exhaust cams are the same. The Mark has a standard 6-bolt cast crank and the Cobra is the 8-bolt steel crank. Also the 93-95 Mark had a weak valve spring, but all the 32V got the "Cobra" beehive in 96 and they can be used in the older engines as long as you use the correct retainers. Also the Cobra used a high-volume oil pump and windage tray, but those items along with the stock Cobra oil pan are available pretty cheap from Ford Racing yet.
IF you can find a complete Cobra intake for $500.00 it is the way to go. Mike
Ok, i called ford today to get some info. I confirmed the pistons and heads were the same by part number. Also, im pretty sure both intake and exhaust cams are different. Looking at the lift and duration specs between the conti and the cobra, you can see that the cobra has more of both.
Try the Mark 8 instead of the continental... the conti is a fwd taurus based car.
Hell, even the Lincoln engine by itself and a decent exhaust would get you to 300hp.....
Hell, I'd even consider a DOHC 4.6 if I could get one for $150....
...And the Conti was only rated at 260 horses, compared to 280 or 290 for a Mark, which would probably explain the different cams. I don't think the FWD "Intech" engine would even bolt into a RWD car anyway...
Its cool that you want to do this. And yes the crank and intake are the special pieces to the puzzle. Like it was said(cobra)steel crank,better intake,cams,tuning,ect. But a conti,markviii,are still a good start on a 4.6 4v conversion. I would like info if you go for it. My buddy just bought a 96 cobra wrecked for cheap. He said he would sell parts,Ill keep ya posted.
forget the conti engine. the bolt pattern will be incorrect and its just not worth the time when you can get a decent mark viii engine for peanuts. if you can fine a set of cobra cams and intakes, for 500 scoop em up. just make sure they are very complete. with a mark viii engine you will be limited to the 96-98 cobra intake if its a cobra intake you want. the next best intake would probably be the 97-98 mark viii intake. they both put the intake tube in a more stockish location. honestly, the cams realy arent worth swapping out. its alot more involved and complex than say a windsor 5.0 there. all the pre99 4.6 DOHC engines run imrc plates. basically a sepperate set of butterflys on a different set of intake runners controled by the computer. the open up at 3000-35000rpmish. personally, id delete them in the name of simplicity. you will lose a touch of low end TQ. something these engines are not known for to begin with. um, the oil pan is a little funky on the mark but summits got a cobra pan and high volume oil pump listed for cheep.
the engine is the easy part to choose, the typy of ignition to use is the tricky part. there are a few different options there. also, youd need to decide on brakes. you need to either swap a hydroboost system into the car or use manual brakes. the heads are so big there is no room for a vac. booster and mc.
on another similar note, if a 4.6 doesnt do it for you an intake is being developed for the 5.4 DOHC. should clear a factory hood in a 99 up stang so im assuming it would if not nearly clear our factory hoods.
if you can get ahold of the whole car, swap it all in....thats the best way to go bar none...use as many factory ford parts as you can and try to keep that oem look...
I know this is an old post and the info is probably somewhere else but just in case anyone turns it up doing research like I did... a couple things should be clarified/added.
shame is right. The Conti engines have a different bellhousing bolt pattern and won't bolt up to a rwd transmission. Conti stuff is cheap for a reason.... Cobra stuff has the 8 bolt forged crank and is correspondingly expensive. Find a Mark engine if you're going to try this with anything but a lot of boost or giggle gas. You can safely make 400hp on a stock Mark motor with a good tune and a Vortech. Whole 93 Marks can be had for $1500 all the time... hurts a Mark lover's heart to see them picked apart like roadkill but it's there.
If you want the second gen intake that goes in the "stockish" location be aware that the associated Lincoln EEC will have PATS to deal with and that intake is notoriously restrictive compared to a Cobra or first gen intake. You also get COP ignition with the 97+ Marks... and HIDs. If the HIDs are intact and you're tearing the car apart call me first. ;)
You could also go the iron block route... Thunderbird SOHC block and put the Conti heads on it. More work but may be cheaper in the long run. I'm pretty sure this combo can be run with a T'Bird wiring harness and EEC (with a tune of course). I'd look for a 96 or 97 Bird as it's OBDII and easier to tune.
The bad valve springs mentioned earlier seem to be limited to the 95s. Admittedly the 93-95 got the same ones but most of the failures seem to be in 95 engines. I suspect a bad batch more than a design flaw.
Is it true that the 93 town cars got a 4.6 that had the same bellhousing as the 5.0?
Based on what I know it was the 91 (and maybe the 92) Town Cars that got the modular/AOD with that pattern. The Mark VIII got the 4.6 w/4r70w combo in 93 along with the Town Car, T'Birds in 94, and Mustang in 96. As far as I know the Town Car was the only one to ever get the 4.6 SOHC with and AOD (5.0 trans pattern). I've got a link somewhere if I can find it...
edit: You're looking for a F1AE casting Romeo block... http://www.babpen 15s.com/editorial/ar/eb40228.htm
I also found Part 1 of a series MM&FF did on the Mod motors... http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0302MMFF_MixMatch/ If anyone knows where part 2 is ????
Digging up this old thread as well! Just because I may be building a different 'bird and have really been digging the mod motors as of late.
doodaa, you mentioned anything but boost of spray. So, this thing won't hold up to, say, 500-600 rwhp thanks to the help of a pair of scrolls running 8 pounds or so?
Also, what are the cobra vs mark computer differences? I found a 93 mark viii nearby for $550.00. I know a 96+ would be better, but just out of curiosity, could I use the engine, computer and wiring to get the same kind of power a 96-98 cobra had (of course, I'd still like to be able to apply boost at some point also)?
All stock Mark engines have a cast crank, common "wisdom" says that 400 hp is about top end for it though I'm not sure I've ever read/heard of anyone breaking one. The Teksid block will hold up to 1000 hp according to most accounts, with a Cobra steel crank and appropriate rods and pistons you're golden up to there. If it was me I'd forge the short block and install the later valve springs with anything doing much more than 6 psi of boost at anything above street rpm levels but I'm a cautious, broke sort who doesn't like doing or spending for work twice. ;)
There are differences amongst the Mark computers, though I'm no tuner so I can't explain detailed differences. The 93s are commonly thought to have the most "aggressive" tune so what you have there is a cheap way to get 300hp pretty quick with that engine, computer, wiring, some bolt ons and decent flowing exhaust.... toss the Mark manifolds and cats adn get Cobra manifolds or headers and hi flow cats. A Cobra computer will be tuned for a lighter car and an intake that has different characteristics than either of the Mark generations, i.e more flow at higher rpm. Not sure I've ever seen one for sale seperately but I don't really pay attention to that. There are several guys around the country that can tune the Mark computers so it probably doesn't matter.
If you want to be complete in your research head over to modulardepot.com and do some reading, the Mustang guys have done this stuff, GTs have the same cast crank as Marks. Also find a thread at tccoa.com titled "The Mark is supercharged".
Ok, thanks! I'll do some reading. Not really ready to do this right now anyway, but I like to plan way ahead.
I'd really be looking or something a bit more complete (not something I have to tear apart and put new parts in). So maybe a cobra engine would be a better idea anyway.
One other thing I was wondering, sort of off topic, will the 4.6 only fit in the fox bay with a hydraboost setup or would a TC ABS setup fit? Anyone know?
That's why you read, costs alot less. :) check out http://www.car-part.com
Can't really help with the Fox fitment, someone here can though I'd guess.