Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: Ifixyawata on February 26, 2007, 08:22:30 PM
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 26, 2007, 08:22:30 PM
Perhaps I was a bit too eager when I set to tearing the suspension off of the T-bird. At this point I have the rear end dropped out and the front suspension torn down to only the control arms. I had originally planned to use CHE control arms for the rear, but I think for the time being I'll stick the new 8.8 back up into the car with the stock arms as I've spent about $800 on other non-suspension things for the car. Is there any source for new rear control arm bolts & nuts? I really don't trust these bolts to be used for the third time, plus I thought they were the stretch-type bolts that are only supposed to be torqued down once.
Anyway, regarding the front suspension & brakes, here we go. I know ThunderChicken recently re-did the front suspension on his car. Carmen, any chance you remember the size of those big bolts that hold the front CA's in? I'm going to do new bushings up front & this bolt looks like it might be a size I don't have.
-Moving outward & upward I'll have to get new balljoints. Any old kind work, or should I spend extra cash on these? I think Moog and Spicer brands cost about $50 - $60 whereas the budget-brand Spicer piece is about $9.
-Next up I'm doing 11" front brakes. I got these from Andrew (4thqtr) complete with spindles and I need to find out if they're from a TC or a Mustang. I'm thinking Mustang because they have the bolt-thru (banjo?) type brake hoses which I assume will work with my stock steel hardlines on the car.
-Considering the car's 22 years old, it probably needs new struts, plus the old 'boucne' test on the front fender pretty much proves it. Any reccomendations on a brand/model for these? Any source for new bolts? I think I might've lost mine. Also, these should bolt up to the Mustang spindles no problem? Also gotta find new strut mounts because these old ones are also worn.
-Tie rod ends, pretty much the same story as the ball joints. One real cheap brand & a few more expensive ones. Probably safer with something like Motorcraft or Moog, correct?
I think that pretty much summarizes all my concerns and all the parts I'm going to be replacing aside from easy stuff like swaybar bushings, end links, etc. Still have yet to find out which springs I'm going to use, but they surely won't be the stock ones, the front end sits way too high. Any and all comments are appreciated, this is my first in-depth adventure into the front suspension.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: daboss351 on February 26, 2007, 08:41:58 PM
suspension= safety, don't skimp and buy the cheap stuff thats prob gonna wear out sooner anyway
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 1WLD BRD on February 26, 2007, 08:48:58 PM
with suspension I would run MOOG anywhere's possible. they are a good brand, and carry a lifetime replacement warranty on most parts.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: chri85tc on February 26, 2007, 08:53:28 PM
I am currently doing the same thing and would like some answers to the same questions?
I got all poly bushings from energy suspension for my soft goods, And I got Moog for the Ball joints and Napa for the Rack and the Tie rod ends.
But I need those large bolts tha hold the LCA's on ???
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 26, 2007, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: chri85tc;131535
But I need those large bolts tha hold the LCA's on ???
I'm guessing it's probably something we can get at a hardware store, just a matter of knowing the sizes, thread pitch, grade, etc.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Chuck W on February 26, 2007, 09:23:22 PM
They are M16-2.0 bolts. (Both the strut and control arm bolts)
NOT something you're going to find at the hardware store. Hit up McMaster-Carr online and source some 10.9 grade bolts of the proper length. While you're at it, get some 5/8" grade 8 washers(they classify them as High-Strength Hardened steel) and some M16 lock-nuts (again grade 10.9).
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ether947 on February 26, 2007, 09:34:27 PM
Well coming from someone who's about to do it twice, I'd say wait until you got the parts you actually want before reassembly.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 26, 2007, 09:39:59 PM
Perhaps the CHE's will have to be my birthday gift at the end of May. I still wanna get the car back down onto the ground because I have all kinds of engine stuff being shipped soon and I refuse to tear into the engine while the suspension is still so torn apart.
Wow, looks like for new rear CA's, front CA bushings, all 4 spring isolators, endlinks and swaybar bushings it only comes out to $292 with the discount. I guess I will wait on 'em. Doesn't stop me from getting the front together with the small pieces I need up there, though.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 32VFoxBird on February 26, 2007, 09:40:32 PM
ive used grade 8 hardware on my rear control arms before. you can use either M12 or 7/16". the pitch wouldnt matter, as you should get the corresponding nuts and washers. as for the struts, im not sure if a TC has the same spindles as a V8 mustang. if that is the case, you will need TC or V8 mustang struts, as the mounting "ears" on the struts are closer than a 4cyl mustang/lx t-bird spindle.
oh, and no, the stock suspension bolts are NOT TTY bolts.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: EricCoolCats on February 26, 2007, 10:46:11 PM
Brian, you could also try Youngstown Bolt & Supply (http://www.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=bolt&near=Youngstown,+OH&radius=0.0&latlng=41099722,-80649722,17336278928354949128&sa=X&oi=local&ct=authority&cd=1)...you have to know what you want but they've probably got them in stock. They're about 15 minutes north of YSU.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 26, 2007, 10:53:36 PM
You only need TC or V8 struts if using original, stock pieces. Aftermarket struts are all the wide style and include spacers (shims) to make 'em fit the narrower 11" spindles. I agree on getting the good ball joints - with cheapies you get what you pay for.
Brian, have you actually tried to remove the control arm bolts yet? If not, you may be in for a surprise. First off, the steering rack WILL be in the way. You can't pull the forward bolts out without destroying the boots on the rack. If you unbolt the rack you might be able to slide it forward enough for clearance, but I'd recommend pulling it completely off and installing urethane bushings anyway. Also, some or all of the bolts might be very difficult to remove as they may be rusted to the sleeve inside the LCA bushing. I was lucky in that only one of my four was stuck, and it did eventually come free (after pleading and beating on it for two solid hours).
Come to think of it I just looked back and noticed you said you've had 'em out before, so you should be OK that way.
Like 5ohbird says, the bolts are not TTY. If they are on good shape they should be reusable.
I also agree with Antonio - make sure you've got all the parts before starting. It's no fun to do the same job several times.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: TucanSam on February 27, 2007, 12:40:32 AM
I lived on the coast for over 25 years. Last year I bought a 96 Mustang GT rearend with the control arms still attached. When I pulled the control arms off the bolts had corrioded to about 1/3 thier orginial size. Scary. So when I got ready to replace my rear control arms on the TC I bought all 8 nuts and bolts from Ford. $108, pretty steep, but there are some places you cant cut corners. When I pulled them off the car, the bolts still looked new. Thats sunny Arizona for you. Im going to try and return the new ones, $108 is $108.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 27, 2007, 01:50:06 PM
Carmen, I've had the rear CA bolts on and off a couple times. I haven't touched the front control arms yet. So you're saying I'd might as well do the steering rack, too? I'd like to have the sport-ratio steering anyway.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 27, 2007, 05:12:20 PM
If you're planning on that upgrade, then yes, do it now. I actually wasn't planning on the upgrade myself, since the rack in the car was fairly new, but I discovered that the aluminum housing had been cracked and somebody fiberglassed over it.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 28, 2007, 09:14:43 PM
So, now I'm sort of shopping for a steering rack. Rock Auto shows various brands, most show a w/ and w/o performance suspension. I assume the performance suspension is the quick ratio rack, correct? There's only about a $30 difference between brands, so I'll probably take the more expensive of the two.
It's finding the correct pump that's leaving me kind of high & dry. It doesn't seem to show two different pumps and I've always heard that you can't use the regular pump with the 'quick' rack. Any truth to this? Or should I just go into a local parts store and ask for all this stuff for an '86 TC or somethin?
Oh, also. Do the racks usually come with inner tie-rod ends and boots?
, just thought of one other thing. If these bolts on the front CA's prove to be rusted inside of the sleeves can I use a 'hot wrench' and cut the heads off of 'em? Same goes for the body-side of the rear CA's.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 28, 2007, 10:09:51 PM
I used a used rack, so I dunno bout the tie rod ends. I didn't change the pump on my car and have no problems, but I don't remember if the rack I removed was quick ratio or not.
As for cutting the bolt heads, it can be done - I had to do it regularly when doing Isuzu truck frame recalls - but it ain't easy. You've actually got to cut the bolts down below the surface without damaging the surrounding metal, and you WILL end up with plenty of fire and smoke as the bushings burn out.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: nirvanagod on February 28, 2007, 10:58:26 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;131874
So, now I'm sort of shopping for a steering rack.
Napa sells a "complete" tie rod to tie rod quick ratio steering rack. I can not recall how much it was though, possibly $60-$80.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 28, 2007, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: nirvanagod;131892
Napa sells a "complete" tie rod to tie rod quick ratio steering rack. I can not recall how much it was though, possibly $60-$80.
I'll probably use a local parts store as shipping on a large heavy item like that might be expensive. Just need verification on the pump issue. I think Chuck said something about it once. He is the suspension guru around these parts.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: nirvanagod on February 28, 2007, 11:05:35 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;131893
I'll probably use a local parts store as shipping on a large heavy item like that might be expensive. Just need verification on the pump issue. I think Chuck said something about it once. He is the suspension guru around these parts.
I think I may have asked the question about the steering rack before, if it wasn't me it was someone else for sure. From what I can remember, you can keep the the old pump in place. However, if you are replacing all these items, you may as well pick up a new pump and hydraulic lines for it. More cost yes, but in the long run it's probably going to be the safer, wiser choice.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: jkirchman on February 28, 2007, 11:15:30 PM
Quote
It doesn't seem to show two different pumps and I've always heard that you can't use the regular pump with the 'quick' rack. Any truth to this?
I've heard this too, but I don't think it matters. I had the 20:1 rack in my LS and replaced it with a 15:1. Never touched the pump and haven't had any problems out of it for two years now.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 01, 2007, 04:15:45 AM
I researched the rack a couple a weeks a go.The 15-1 from napa is 83.00.I never did find a difference with the pumps. http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=12498
Title: A small update...
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 04, 2007, 08:39:33 PM
Tonight I decided because I had a few hours before work I'd go out and tinker on the 'bird for a while. I got the rack off with minimal problems. Ended up just cutting the old PS lines because I'm replacing them. Rack came out nice & easy with the exception of having to bend some of the brake lines up because they run behind both bolts on the K-member. Oh well, probably replacing those too.
I ran into problems once I got brave and tried to take off the control arms. Before I even put a ratchet over the first control arm bolt I got it nice & red hot with the torch. Did y'all know that undercoating bursts into flames when you get near it with a flame? After the small fires (the undercoating and the inside of the bushing) were out, I cranked on the bolt with a junk torque wrench with about 18" of pipe over the end. After a few hard turns it finally started coming loose easy enough. The front bolt of the right control arm was off and came out without major problems. The rear bolt is still in the car. Busted the hell out of that old torque wrench, a cheap breaker bar and a craftsman ratchet. I pretty much stopped there for the night. I decided to take the hood off just so I felt like I'd gotten something done, then I stopped for good.
My air compressor isn't working right now, but I have to ask, are these bolts even anything I'm going to be able to get off with air tools? Or am I better off buying about a half-dozen breaker bars and keep doing it that way? Can I even get an impact wrench up onto that bolt at all?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Chuck W on March 04, 2007, 08:47:51 PM
I didn't have any luck on the '80 with an impact...you just can't get one in there.
ON the one of mine I wound up cutting the head off and beating the out if it w/ and air chisel (was rusted into the sleeve) until it finally started to move.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 05, 2007, 09:09:47 PM
Well, I busted out big guns today to no avail. Went out & bought a shiny new 26" breaker bar, 3/4" drive and some new impact sockets. Nothing. I think I'll try some of the other CA bolts first as Shawn suggested. Maybe I should've started on the other side :hick: I'll give the other two bolts a try and see where I get with them, but I may be torching & chiseling this beehotch out. Another thing I think that might've factored into it is that I heated the front bolt up a whole lot more than this rear one. I'm rather skiddish about putting so much heat on it because of it's close proximity to the fuel lines. Are they a safe distance away that I won't risk a fire? (besides the undercoating and bushings burning up)
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 01, 2007, 07:06:38 AM
Finally, an update:
I decided to crank up the hot wrench and now I've removed both of my front Control arms. I started 'removing' the bushings by the following method:
Doesn't seem to be working too well, should I use something to speed the process? Oh, on a pretty cool side note, one of 'em got hot enough to shoot the steel sleeve out of the inside of it.
Anyway, my next thing is I'm wondering just how in the hell these things come apart. I remember hearing Carmen say that the bushings from CHE didn't come with the outer steel sleeve so I don't have to mess with those aside from melting all the old bushing out. Regarding the ball joint though, is that pressed in from the bottom or what? I put it in my manual shop press but I didn't want to put too much pressure on it because A.) it's a BALL joint and any downward pressure on it would make it pen 15 to one side. And B.) The metal on these control arms looks pretty weak and I might consider just totally replacing them. I can't even see getting those front spring isolators out at all, they seem to be rusted into place.
Are there a set of control arms I can buy that have poly bushings in 'em already and won't throw off all my suspension geometry?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Chuck W on April 01, 2007, 09:32:34 AM
Yes, the ball joints press in from the bottom. You need a couple pieces of tubing (or rent the tool from AZ) if you're going to use your shop press. You need a piece of tube large enough for the bottom to fit into as a receiver and a piece the right size to press on the outer shell from the top...not the ball joint shaft itself. They will come out with a *POP*.
The isolators will come out. Hammer and chisel, or an air chisel if you have one and you'll get them worked out.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 25, 2007, 08:52:18 PM
Well, I got my new Energy Suspension front control arm bushings today and looking at 'em and reading the instruction sheet, I think I'm going to take it somewhere and have someone with a real press and the correct knowledge of how to use it to get the CA bushings pressed out. I'm too scared I'll bend or collapse the Control arm (as the instruction sheet warns.) Maybe your mechanic dude could press 'em out & the new ones in for me, Eric?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 25, 2007, 10:22:53 PM
Are you replacing the steel shells, or just installing poly bushings in the old ones? If you're just installing bushings no press is needed. Simply burn out the old rubber, clean up the inside of the shells with a wire brush on a drill, grab the poly bushings, grease 'em up and tap 'em in with a rubber mallet - no great force is required. I think the warning that's in the instructions that came with the ES bushings only applies if you're replacing shell and all (mine came with the same instructions).
Keep in mind that the steel sleeves for the bolts are different lengths, but only slightly. I seem to remember the longer one goes in the rear bushing. I also found it better to put the steel sleeve in first, then tap the whole thing into the LCA.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 26, 2007, 01:34:41 AM
I'm not sure if you and I have different bushings or what, Carmen, but mine came with the sleeves installed inside and new outer metal sleeves.
If it'll be easier, I can try and take the new bushings apart and just put the poly part and the bolt sleeve into the existing sleeves that are already pressed into the old CA's.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 26, 2007, 10:57:08 PM
Ok, I'm about ready to say forget it and get all new control arms. The one side is missing a LOT of material around the hole below where the coil spring rests, not to mention I haven't been able to get the old bushing sleeves out for anything.
Any ideas on finding some new control arms, complete with bushings & ball joints?
I like the price of these, but I'm not sure how well my '85 T-bird and these SN-95 CA's will work together:
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 32VFoxBird on April 26, 2007, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;143075
Ok, I'm about ready to say forget it and get all new control arms. The one side is missing a LOT of material around the hole below where the coil spring rests, not to mention I haven't been able to get the old bushing sleeves out for anything.
Any ideas on finding some new control arms, complete with bushings & ball joints?
tubulars ;)
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ether947 on April 26, 2007, 11:15:20 PM
Which car is this for? I have some control arms off of my 87TC. They have new ball joints. If your interested shoot cougarman a PM.
As for new, you can try this place. http://buyfordracing.com/ That's usually were I get my control arms from.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 26, 2007, 11:34:15 PM
I've edited my original post... but now I'm overwhelmed with options. Tubulars would mean I have to use coilovers, correct? If I did that I would definitely need a STB, which I'm not at all oppsed to. I'd rather do this right than have a part of my suspension collapse. I always thought tubular CA's meant a tubular k-member, which is what Mikey Fila and I talked about tonight, but I guess maybe I was confused.
PS - This is for my '85. TC control arms may be different? I've got some Mustang spindles and 11" rotors ready to go on the front... once I have something to bolt them to.
For the rear, I'm soon getting CHE tubular rears and I have a '88 XR7 rear with 4.10 gears and 10" drums (yipeee) ready to bolt in.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 32VFoxBird on April 26, 2007, 11:37:02 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;143081
I've edited my original post... but now I'm overwhelmed with options. Tubulars would mean I have to use coilovers, correct?
not neccesarily. there are a few manufactures that accept factory coil springs.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on April 27, 2007, 08:08:53 AM
Let me know what your doin man, I'll hep ya when you get all yuor parts together. Even try to help ya find some parts if I can
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 27, 2007, 10:57:39 AM
Can anyone point me in the direction of these tubular front CA's? About the only ones I've found are these: http://www.cheperformance.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=12&cid=1
10" drums (smooth edges) - Thunderbird/Cougar with 8.8" rear, or 7.5" rear with heavy duty suspension/towing package
Brake Rotors/rear disc Thunderbird Turbo Coupe (10" vented, 4-lug)
Upper Control Arms/rear Thunderbird & Turbo Coupe
Lower Control Arms/rear All Fox cars with spring suspensions (excluding Mark VII/Continental). Minor length differences between 1983-86 and 1987-88 cars; usually does not affect performance or fit.
Rear Springs Thunderbird (except Turbo Coupe); check code on door tag for exact matches.
Rear Sway Bar Thunderbird & Turbo Coupe, Mustang 5.0
Front Sway Bar Thunderbird, 4-cylinder Mustang (smaller diameter); Turbo Coupe, Mustang 5.0 (larger diameter).
Front A-Arms 1983-86: Thunderbird, Fox Mustang & SVO 1987-88: 1994-98 Mustang, RWD Lincoln Continental, Thunderbird (all)
Front Springs Thunderbird; **motor-specific (V6 springs for V6, etc.); check code on door tag for exact matches. Possibly 1994-up Mustang springs.
Shocks & Struts Thunderbird (except Turbo Coupe); **83-86 are slightly different from 87-88 due to valving; no noticable difference in performance. Turbo Coupe struts are factory adjustable units and only work on 11" brake spindles. Mustang struts are shorter but generally fit and work acceptibly.
15:1 Ratio: 1984-88 Turbo Coupe/XR-7, 1987-88 Thunderbird/Cougar, 1987-93 Mustang 5.0, 1984-92 Mark VII ***look for the "15:1" ink stamp on the housing
Thats about all I found that could help ya out B;)
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: EricCoolCats on April 27, 2007, 01:00:17 PM
Brian, the FRPP control arms (M-3075-A) are stock replacements with new bushings and improved ball joints already installed. For what you're doing, with Fox 11" spindles, these would be perfect. They are ~$300 US now (used to be half the price) but if you add up the cost of urethane bushings, the ball joints, and used control arms separately, these turn out to be a pretty good deal regardless. I have these on the convertible, but I had to remove the ball joints for Steeda X2's with the SN95 spindles.
FRPP also has another control arm kit (M-3075-D) for SN95 cars, which would also work on 1987-88 Cougars/T-Birds, but if you tried to use them on the '85 they'd kick out the wheels and you'd probably have a hell of a time trying to get the car aligned.
Basically, use a stock replacement setup and you'll be very happy. Upgrading to urethane will harshen up the ride a bit, plus you're already having problems with that installation.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 27, 2007, 02:26:07 PM
Cool! Those M-3075-A pieces are available for $249 on BuyFordRacing.com. Looks like that's what I'll be going with, then. Once I get these I'll have to scare me up some springs & struts and I oughtta be well on my way.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on April 27, 2007, 03:58:52 PM
Use your stock springs:hick: They'll work just fine. Besides the peice that was rusted into the control arm
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 27, 2007, 05:36:57 PM
Yo bubba,I went mostly stock.I'm happy. Except the springs.I did what you want to.15-1 steering and the 11 brakes .You don't need to overkill the front.After a good alighnment . I'm more than hooked up.I pm'd the spring # to you a while ago.I don't get to drive it much but it's good for now.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 28, 2007, 09:07:06 AM
Well, I just ordered the new front CA's from BuyFordRacing.com Not bad really at about $270 shipped. Considering bushings and balljoints alone are about $150. Anyone wanna buy some brand new poly bushings?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 29, 2007, 09:23:25 PM
Well, scratch that... My order from the above mentioned site has been 'cancelled' that's all it says. No reason for it to be cancelled, but oh well. Guess I'm dealing with the old control arms for now.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on April 29, 2007, 09:29:21 PM
Just get a set from summit Click (http://"http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS%2DM%2D3075%2DA&N=700+4294908331+4294925023+4294908282+115&autoview=sku") They have them for $300
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 29, 2007, 09:32:00 PM
They're $50 more at Summit. Fvck that. I might as well make these old ones work.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on April 29, 2007, 09:38:28 PM
What ever you want man. Ya need help, ya got my number
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: nirvanagod on April 29, 2007, 09:52:44 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;143637
They're $50 more at Summit. Fvck that. I might as well make these old ones work.
It would be more like only $30 more, since you wouldn't be paying for shipping, and since they're in stock you have them immediately.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on April 29, 2007, 09:58:54 PM
He's right, but what ever you wana do B.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ether947 on April 30, 2007, 06:10:27 AM
Let me see if I can find another vendor for you...
EDIT:
But it looks like Summit is your next best deal. Especially if they are local to you.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on April 30, 2007, 08:39:05 PM
Meh, now I'm undecided again. One thing's for sure, though, if I do end up buying these, there's no room in the budget for the CHE Rears. I'd feel better (safer) buying new fronts considering the deterioration that's occurred on one of 'em. I forgot, I have a $15 SummitBucks coupon from my purchases last year, so that will help a tiny bit to offset the cost.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: nirvanagod on April 30, 2007, 11:16:52 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;143927
Meh, now I'm undecided again. One thing's for sure, though, if I do end up buying these, there's no room in the budget for the CHE Rears. I'd feel better (safer) buying new fronts considering the deterioration that's occurred on one of 'em. I forgot, I have a $15 SummitBucks coupon from my purchases last year, so that will help a tiny bit to offset the cost.
So you'd be at $285 out the door parts in hand (no waiting), obviously not counting tax. Do the math of what it would cost to refurb the old arms V.s. just buying the new parts, it probably would be about even. If anything you can just save up a little bit longer to get the CHE's. It's simply a matter of sacrificing a little now to get more in the long run.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on May 01, 2007, 06:57:21 AM
I've been having visions of the front coil spring shooting out from the bottom of the control arm or some other horrific catastrophe, so the peace of mind, though it comes at a hefty price, is well worth it. I think I'm going up to Summit today and tear up my reciept once I buy 'em before I change my stupid mind again.
Like I said before, $100 for quality ball joints, $50 for new bushings (though it's poly vs 'hard durometer rubber'), About $70 to get all the mentioned items pressed in. My Taiwan press ain't going to do it. So, $210 for a set of used control arms that have rusted out spring perches and are probably bent from my angry hammer.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on May 01, 2007, 11:09:19 AM
Your angry hammer, my swinging of the angry hammer B. What time you goin?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on May 02, 2007, 12:31:22 AM
Here we go: Comparison (http://"http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o12/Ifixyawata/?action=view¤t=CACompare.jpg")
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on May 02, 2007, 12:34:37 AM
Good road trip to get the new ones though.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on May 04, 2007, 01:56:02 AM
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on May 04, 2007, 02:31:06 AM
I guess this thread goes beyond just front suspension now, but oh well. Myself, Fila and my other friend Mike spent a couple hours getting the front control arms in and getting the rear bolted into the car. Because of the high price of the front control arms, I'm leaving the rear stock for now. At least getting the rear axle in, I'm able to see how the fatties will line up in the back. Its looking like I'll probably have to find some heavier springs for the rear unless I want to slice those tires open in short order.
I had previously thought otherwise, but it looks now like the front control arm bushings have little 'teeth' on the inner bushing sleeve as well. Is it necessary to set the preload on the front just like you do on the rear? Ya know what I mean, get the weight of the car onto the wheels before cranking down on the control arm bolts so the bushings don't bind?
PS - I don't know how in the hell I ever put that first 8.8" into the car by myself. The three of us had a rough time with that one.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on May 04, 2007, 08:55:33 PM
Sorry to post more pictures that no one really wants to see. Just wanted to show how wide these rear tires are. Not sure if they're going to tuck up in far enough to rub or not, but I'd rather not chance it so new coils are in order.
Don't mind the two angry hammers, body rust, unhooked shocks, or vinnie's famous shredded paper packing material all over the floor.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 32VFoxBird on May 04, 2007, 10:55:12 PM
why do you have to buy new springs? have you tried rolling the lips? those look narrow enough to not rub at least the outer fender. you may have to flip the quad shocks, but looks like the tires will clear fine.
and since you're using drag radials, i would suggest buying the air bag kit from summit for $72. it will increase the rate of your stock springs, and also give you the ability to "fine tune" the rear.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on May 04, 2007, 11:12:38 PM
Stock front springs are rusted and broke about 3/4 of 1 " coil on the spring" off. Rears sag IIRC. Might as well just get a new set
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: jcassity on May 05, 2007, 02:08:31 AM
you mentioned thngs about steering a while back and ratios. I discovered something interesting and thought id share it with you.
For some odd reason i had to replace my p/s pump while i was putting in my 308, I found a p/s pump off an LTD like a 79 or something like that. Anyway the pully was like an inch larger than my stock pump but configured the same as far as bolt up goes.
I suspected it would be easier to steer and yep,, it sure was,, matter of fact is feels a little toooo easy.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on May 05, 2007, 07:18:48 AM
32V - I'm using the drag radials for now because that's what came on that set of wheels when I bought 'em. The local strip has been sold & closed down, so actually taking it to the track is probably unlikely. But at under $200 for the air spring inserts and a cool controller, I'll keep it in mind if it still sags with new coils. (I think for shiznits & giggles, though, I might put the old stock ones in & see how it sits.
Scott - I'm going to find a new 15:1 rack and pump for the car, I think. Sounds scary if the steering is too easy. I'd be afraid of over-pressuring the lines, etc.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on June 08, 2007, 02:41:15 AM
Since my last update I've gotten the steering rack mostly in (still looking for one of the nuts) and I've gotta tighten down the steering shaft bolt because I'm obsessive-compulsive. Also got the tie rod ends screwed on pretty close to where the old ones were. DS went on with no trouble, but the PS gave me fits so bad I had to hold onto the inner tie rod end with pliers so as not to destroy the boot, but they're both on.
This brings me to my next question. I bought a set of struts listed for an '88 Mustang GT. I knew this way they'd have the correct spacing at the bottom part where they mount to the spindle of my 11" brakes. No problems there. The top is where I'm having trouble. See pics below:
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 32VFoxBird on June 08, 2007, 09:37:33 AM
that's why i used 94-04 mustang lakewood 90/10 struts on mine. fox struts were too short.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Chuck W on June 08, 2007, 09:55:34 AM
Are you using any kind of spacer on the strut shaft?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: CougarSE on June 08, 2007, 10:48:58 AM
did you compare the two struts on top?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ether947 on June 08, 2007, 11:56:40 AM
Same thing happened to me with SN-95 struts. The overall length of the struts were fine, just not enough threads up top. I used C/C Plates to fix that. Do you have a one-piece strut mount? If so and you don't want to buy Plates, seek out a pair of two piece mounts.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on June 08, 2007, 12:38:35 PM
There was a spacer included, but as you can see I really didn't need to use it, using it, the threads didn't even come past the top of the mount.
As for the mounts, they sure look one-piece. I took the front struts out by pulling the whole mounts out because a.) I had originally planned to replace 'em too, but changed my mind and b.) it's a whole lot easier than trying to use a screwdriver on that ridiculous strut shaft.
So would I need a set something like this (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Gabriel-Strut-Mounts-82-93-Ford-Mustang-GT-Front_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33590QQihZ002QQitemZ120102946807QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V")?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Chuck W on June 08, 2007, 12:45:03 PM
I have no idea what the hell those things are in that auction, as they are not Mustang upper strut mounts.
You can get a replacement upper strut mount from Moog or TRW that uses the "cup"-style plate that uses the replaceable bushing. You can then get poly bushings for them. They make them for Fox Tbird/Cougars specifically, no need to mod Mustang parts if you go the route of buying new.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on June 08, 2007, 01:34:29 PM
D'oh! Now that I look at the bolt arrangement, I see why it isn't a fox piece.
I've used these before to replace sloppy original stock units.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on June 08, 2007, 01:42:27 PM
The old mounts look fine off the car, but when there's weight on 'em they sort of 'tip' toward the engine bay. That's irrelevant anyway because they won't work with these new struts and I have no receipt to take 'em back.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ether947 on June 08, 2007, 01:42:59 PM
Good deal.
Side Note: Chuck, what happened to the tan TC (that was) in your sig?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Chuck W on June 08, 2007, 02:02:26 PM
Quote from: Ether947;152668
Side Note: Chuck, what happened to the tan TC (that was) in your sig?
It went to a new home.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on July 07, 2007, 07:05:45 PM
Well, I waited three days for a set of strut mounts as pictured above to arrive and I found out they're the same thickness as the old stock ones. So I either have to find thinner strut mounts, or struts with more threads on top. Looks like the easiest route, at this point, is to get different struts that fit in my old mounts (since I got pissed off and returned the new mounts). Only issue is that it doesn't appear that the T-bird struts don't come with the shims to fit the thinner top portion of the spindle. Will washers work in place of these shims?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: CougarSE on July 07, 2007, 07:18:51 PM
I went and got autozone mounts and they worked fine on the 88.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Kitz Kat on July 08, 2007, 08:12:49 AM
I used washers no problem,5/8 I think.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on July 08, 2007, 08:14:04 AM
I've made this whole 11" brake thing way more complicated than it needs to be... sheesh.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Kitz Kat on July 08, 2007, 08:19:45 AM
I bought them mounts pictured they wouldn't work for me,they didn't seem to tighten enough.Used my old ones,still have them if anybody wants them.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on July 08, 2007, 09:11:09 AM
My whole big mistake was buying Mustang struts. I forgot to mention that the lady at the parts store belittled and scolded me when I went to return the mounts. "Why would you buy the incorrect parts? What are you trying to do, exactly?" When I explained to her that the T-bird and Mustang shared a chassis/platform, she shook her head and asked her co-workers and they all disagreed. It's unfortunate the first guy I spoke with wasn't there. He was kind enough to punch up any fox car I could think of & compare part numbers. Even pulled and opened the Mustang strut so I could show him the issue I was having with the strut mount.... oh well. I'm done with that store.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: 84 Fila on July 08, 2007, 10:06:20 AM
Advance Auto FTL on this one. So all you have to do is get 88 struts and problem solved?
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on July 30, 2007, 02:43:42 AM
Alright, now that CJ's come and gone and I'm regretting not having a car there, I'm motivated to get this t-bird done before the winter descends upon us.
Gonna go ahead and revive this thread with another stupid question or two: Which of the ports on the steering rack is the pressure and which is the return? I didn't pay attention when I took the lines off of the old one. Also, it looks like the short section of return hardline doesn't have the o-ring or a provision for one like the new pressure line does. This normal? I've got late-night motivation to get some shiznit done so I'm gonna go out and crack on it right now.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: Ifixyawata on July 30, 2007, 05:28:48 AM
Nevermind my last post. I went out and tinkered with it and I realized that the pressure and return are different sizes, so it's idiot-proof in that respect. Also found out that there were actually o-rings hidden inside, too and I got those replaced, with the exception of the rack-side pressure line. The new line came with 3 o-rings, two small ones and one much larger one. One of the small ones fits the pump side of the hose, but none of 'em fit the rack-side fitting, so I'm stuck there.
I'm also stuck on the fact that I can't figure out how the **** the short return hardline on the rack is oriented. I put it on the way I thought it went ended up pointing against and touching the DS strut tower. THIS is why no one should take a car apart, then try and put it back together FIVE MONTHS later.
Title: Step 1: Suspension.
Post by: vinnietbird on July 30, 2007, 08:28:56 AM
My retun line pints almost straight out.Good luck on the car.Now that I FINALLY have everything I need for the cam swap and mass air conversion,I'm getting a little more motivated myself.Get to it !!!