Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: DMC24guy on February 19, 2007, 11:35:42 PM
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 19, 2007, 11:35:42 PM
Question #1: My drivers side power door lock buttons do not work. I push them both and nothing activates. Nor do I hear any clicking. HOWEVER, the passenger side buttons do work. HOWEVER: Those buttons only affect the lock on that door. They have no effect on the drivers side lock. What would cause this problem? It's almost like the power to the lock system in the drivers side door is gone.
Question #2: How difficult is it to change out the Ignition Lock Cylinder? Is it a tedious procedure?
Question #3: Would Having either dirty Brake Fluid or dirty Senors on the wheels cause the Anti-Lock brakes not to work? My anti-lock light comes on when I hit the brakes, and I've successfully been able to lock up the wheels, meaning the anti-locks aren't working.
Thanks to all who attempt to answer these fundamental questions in the world of Turbo-Coupery.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: P71 on February 20, 2007, 12:07:17 AM
#1 - Definately the switch on the driver's door AND something else. If the buttons were good then the pass door would lock/unlock. The buttons and the actuator are on different wires. Grab a multi-meter and go to town.
#2 - Extremely easy in a Ford. Take you all of 2 minutes.
#3 - Absolutely on both. Flush the fluid and clean off the sensors.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 20, 2007, 01:41:42 PM
Ok, here's another thing. The drivers side door sags and appears to slightly..."angled" incorrectly. Trying to explain this using words is hard, so bear with me.
When I attempt to close the door, clearly it's sagging towards the back of door. (The part of the door where the handle is). When I do shut it, metal contact is made, as a very unpleasant sound is heard. The strange thing is the top right hand part of the door is too far "in" and the bottom right hand part of the door is too far "out". Like the entire door has been "turned" inward. With the top part of the door being "in" too much and bottom "out" too much.
What's really strange though is the bushings in the hinges look fine. Don't appear worn, and I even tried feeling for sway in the door by lifting on it. There was no play in the hinges. When I lifted on the door, the entire car lifted up. If the bushings were worn, I figured there would be at least some empty space in which I could move the door up and down. There wasn't. I don't want to replace the bushings if that's not the problem. But I don't know what it would be?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: vinnietbird on February 20, 2007, 02:14:13 PM
Perhaps the door just needs to be re-aligned.Has it ever been in a wreck that you know of?The bottom hinges go bad on a lot of thse cars.I'm getting ready to replace my driver side lower hinge in the next couple of days.....I hope.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: P71 on February 20, 2007, 02:24:07 PM
There's a LOT of adjustment room in the hinges.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 20, 2007, 03:19:26 PM
I don't think it's been in an accident, and the carfax I got before I bought the car didn't show any wrecks. There's some denting on the drivers side, so it might have hit something in past, but not significant.
I'm assuming it would be at easier to change out the pins in the hinges if I just took the whole door off right? Also, how on earth do I get to the bolts holding the bottom hinge onto the Frame? That spring loaded thing is in the way, and it looks near impossible to get anything down there.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: P71 on February 20, 2007, 03:46:49 PM
Gotta take the fender off.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: EricCoolCats on February 20, 2007, 04:14:20 PM
The pins can be changed on the door if you have someone helping you...it's not a fun time but not like it's a heater core change either. I held my doors up for about 25 minutes each while the body guy changed the pins. It sucked...but they're done now.
However, I will concur that it is easier to change them off the car. ;)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 20, 2007, 07:42:29 PM
Ok, here are some pictures to illustrate my frustrations:
Oh, and btw, would sticking a foot long turn down at the end of this ler help with my loudness problem? The resonance inside the cabin is too much for me to bear right now. (http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_3085.jpg)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on February 20, 2007, 08:51:22 PM
looks like if you shim the bottom hinge it would fix the problem, as far as noise, its gonna be loud till you get it out the back.might be a little better if you stuck it out the side.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Billyf17 on February 20, 2007, 09:20:05 PM
I have the same type of problem on my Cougar. The lines at one part of the door are perfect. Go to the other side and they are off. The gap on the front of my driver door is straight and even. The gap on the rear of that door is messed up. The body line flows through the fender to the door but is slightly off at the rear of the door. Also there is a HUGE gap between the top of the door and the roof. My dad says it can be adjusted out. But when you see it, you can tell is isn't that easy.
My thought is that either the car is sagging in the middle or the front subframe is bent a little. Either way it isn't an easy fix. Like your TC, my car hasn't been in an accident (reported anyway). Good luck with that issue though.
As for your door locks...with the constant open/close action the driver's door sees (much much more than the passenger door), a likely cause could be the wires in the door to body wire harness. Due to cost savings, manufactures use as little wire as possible and sometime leave too little wire. So with the opening/closing of the door the wire stretches and over time can snap or tear. I've seen it in a few cars. If you hit the right wire it could cause this concern. The switches share the same ground so it isn't a body ground to the door. If that wire, plus one of the two wires that control the driver door actuator break, then your issue will be present. I suggest inspecting the wires in between the door and the body.
While you're out at the car...give the 7-8, 9-0 buttons a push on your keyless entry pad and see which doors, if any lock. It could be a bad keyless entry module.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 20, 2007, 09:56:29 PM
The keyless entry buttons don't seem to work either. I push the buttons...and nothing. Not even the lights. But I fail to see how that would affect the lock buttons?
And uh, "daboss", where do you suggest I stick a "shim"? The bottom part of that hinge, or the bottom? I suppose a penny would work.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on February 20, 2007, 09:59:51 PM
as far as that goes, pull the door panel, and start looking for loose connections, broken wires, and check like he said the wires in the boot.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: EricCoolCats on February 20, 2007, 10:22:39 PM
Looks to me like you just need to adjust the striker bolt in the door jamb. Needs to go toward the inside of the car about 1/8". Torx T50, loosen very gently, then wiggle...takes about half a minute, make sure it's nice and tight.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 20, 2007, 10:28:00 PM
Already tried that. Didn't work. It still sagged, and because one part of the door is more "out" than the other, moving that striker bolt only exaggerated the problem.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Billyf17 on February 20, 2007, 10:28:04 PM
Quote from: DMC24guy;130615
The keyless entry buttons don't seem to work either. I push the buttons...and nothing. Not even the lights. But I fail to see how that would affect the lock buttons?
Pushing 7-8 and 9-0 together signals a "lock" and will lock the doors. It is the same as pushing the lock button on the inside. If that works but pushing the button inside doesn't, then it would lead to a bad switch. I was just curious to see if pushing 7-8 and 9-0 would produce a different result, such as both doors locking. But....
If the keyless pad doesn't even light up when you push any key, it is a very good indication that something is broken or disconnected in the door, like pinched wires, a bad module, or a bad keypad...but how often do keypads go bad?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: EricCoolCats on February 20, 2007, 10:36:24 PM
Quote
Already tried that. Didn't work. It still sagged, and because one part of the door is more "out" than the other, moving that striker bolt only exaggerated the problem.
K, looks like it's time to do the patented Eric Door Alignment Procedure™ then.
Adjust the striker bolt so that the bottom of the door is perfect. Don't worry about the top part, just the bottom. Get the molding straight, the body lines even, etc.
Roll the window down, open the door, and place your right knee on the door panel. Then lean on the top part and bend it toward you. Hard. Yank, pull, jerk, whatever works for ya. Probably have to do that several times. Don't worry, you won't wreck anything.
Now close the door and observe the magic. ;)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on February 20, 2007, 10:54:30 PM
looks like the bottom of the door the gap is narrower. So shim the bottom hinge enough to align the molding, but not interfere with anything else. just don't shim it to much. That is if adjusting the striker like eric says doesn't work. then do exactly what he said for making the top mate up.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 20, 2007, 10:55:40 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;130622
K, looks like it's time to do the patented Eric Door Alignment Procedure™ then.
Adjust the striker bolt so that the bottom of the door is perfect. Don't worry about the top part, just the bottom. Get the molding straight, the body lines even, etc.
Roll the window down, open the door, and place your right knee on the door panel. Then lean on the top part and bend it toward you. Hard. Yank, pull, jerk, whatever works for ya. Probably have to do that several times. Don't worry, you won't wreck anything.
Now close the door and observe the magic. ;)
Sounds much like the official Saturn door adjustment procedure™. It was actually a TSB, with this statement added: "It is not advisable to perform this procedure within the view of the customer" :D
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on February 20, 2007, 10:56:46 PM
leave it to gm!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: softtouch on February 21, 2007, 12:23:25 AM
Close the door on a block of wood and bend it until it fits right.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Tbird232ci on February 21, 2007, 03:29:44 PM
Have you picked up on the door to see if there is play in the hinge?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: jncocowboyx on February 21, 2007, 04:05:51 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;130626
Sounds much like the official Saturn door adjustment procedure™. It was actually a TSB, with this statement added: "It is not advisable to perform this procedure within the view of the customer" :D
LMAO!!!:banana:
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 21, 2007, 07:34:57 PM
I have lifted the door. There is a very, very small amount of play. Almost can't even notice it though. Mainly I end up lifting the entire car. And Eric, are you serious? I mean, I know you were joking, but does that....technical...method work?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on February 21, 2007, 07:35:45 PM
hes not joking
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: cougarcragar on February 21, 2007, 07:42:39 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;130626
Sounds much like the official Saturn door adjustment procedure™. It was actually a TSB, with this statement added: "It is not advisable to perform this procedure within the view of the customer" :D
That actually made me laugh out loud, which takes a lot.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DakotaEpic on February 21, 2007, 09:05:20 PM
Quote from: DMC24guy;130743
I have lifted the door. There is a very, very small amount of play. Almost can't even notice it though. Mainly I end up lifting the entire car. And Eric, are you serious? I mean, I know you were joking, but does that....technical...method work?
Yeah, he's serious. He's actually done it for people at Cat Jam.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: EricCoolCats on February 21, 2007, 09:23:03 PM
Yes, I am totally serious about that procedure.
The first time I ever saw that done...it was 1988, I'd had my '84 for not even a whole year. I was concerned that the top of the door didn't line up, and it was only a 4 year old car at the time, and it had never been wrecked. Long story but to make it short, my '84 was one of many 1984 Ford vehicles that ended up having a faulty EEC-IV processor from the factory. But before that was diagnosed I spent a lot of time at the Ford dealership's service department. Thank God for extended warranties. Anyway, the service dept. manager and I got to be friends, and I was telling him about the door not lining up at the top. He walked me over to the car and did that procedure on it without any warning. I about shiznit a brick...thought for sure that the top of the door frame was going to buckle, or that the glass would never go up and down the same again. He closed the door, asked me, "Is that better for you?" I looked and slicker than snot, it aligned perfectly.
Think about it. Years and years of slamming the doors take a toll eventually. Aircraft-style doors uncurl over time. You simply have to curl them back to their original shape. And that procedure is how you do it.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 21, 2007, 10:00:30 PM
Well, after some adjusting with the striker-bolt and the bolts connecting the Hinges to the door, I was able to "straighten" out the door, so the top right isn't hitting the body anymore, and the moulding and body lines towards the bottom of the door are much more correct. It's still sagging slightly though, but I think new bushings will solve that problem. So, overall, that problem doesn't seem to be as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Now, assuming I need to take the door off to put the bushings in, how hard is it to unhook the Wiring harness for the wires running into the door? Do I have to take off the panel? (Nightmare...stupid plastic rivets)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on February 21, 2007, 10:07:27 PM
i love those rivets too, glad to hear you had some sucess
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 21, 2007, 11:52:11 PM
Next question:
I would like to test the TPS sensor. What should the voltage be when the engine is running, in park, at idle? I know to adjust the voltage, the TPS must be turned back and forth. How does one determine if the TPS is faulty and must be replaced?
If it helps, my idle in park, is around 1k. About 1100 in Drive. Personally I think those figures are too high, but does this affect what the voltage for the TPS should be?
Also, the main reason for my checking the TPS, is every once in a while the RPMS act weird. I'll be in park and they jump from 1k to 1500 all of a sudden, or higher, and then go back down. Just strange stuff. Changed out the TFI, and it still does this every once in a while.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Billyf17 on February 22, 2007, 07:40:42 AM
Best way to test it is with an buttstuffog voltmeter. That way you can test the TPS from closed throttle to WOT and see if there are any dead spots.
At closed throttle the TPS should be .8-1.0 volts. At WOT it should be 4.8-5.0 volts. In between it should be a smooth transistion as you open and close the throttle valve. You don't need to have the car running for this...just KOEO.
It also has a better description of how to test the TPS. Sometimes my directions are a bit fuzzy....but I help when I can.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 23, 2007, 10:51:22 AM
Next Question:
The wiring harness connecting the wires from the car to the door. Where is it? Do I have to take off the door panel to access it?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: 5.0willgo on February 23, 2007, 11:53:42 AM
Yes, remove the inner door panel. Once you have that done, you will see the inside metal framework of the door. The wires run between the inner framework and outer skin.
If needbe, I have a couple TC doors down in my basp00get that still have the wires in them. I could snap some pics tonight if you'd like.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 23, 2007, 12:19:37 PM
Well I have some good news and bad news.
The bad news is that all the parts stores I went to claimed the Pins and Bushings for the door were discontinued. However, one place special ordered them for me, and I should get them on the 26th.
The good news is that the exhuast guy recognized my car, and seemed to know a few things about our vehicles. He told me to redo the exhaust from the cat back it would run me $110. Sounds fair to me, so, next paycheck, I'm getting it done.
And finally, the best news of all, Season 3 of the Rockford Files comes out on DVD Tuesday the 27th. I'm so excited!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: 46Tbird on February 23, 2007, 03:15:28 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;130626
Sounds much like the official Saturn door adjustment procedure™. It was actually a TSB, with this statement added: "It is not advisable to perform this procedure within the view of the customer" :D
Well if there is an alignment issue with a big chunk of steel fitting in a hole, you can't always fix that with shims. You would be surprised if you watched a body shop re-align the gaps in all your panels. You think they do that with bondo? Well, some would but you would rather have them bending steel. It ain't pretty to watch.
DMC...uh, guy - sounds like you've already got it resolved but sometimes that door is gonna have to be BENT to get it to fit back in the hole it was designed for..
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 23, 2007, 04:31:53 PM
No, I haven't solved the problem. When I took the car out driving, my "fix" evidently left too big of a gap between the top of the door and the body, so all I heard was the wooshing of wind the entire time. I had to "readjust" the door to it's original messed up position to fix that. So now I'm waiting to get the bushings to fix the problem. And because all the parts stores in town didn't seem to carry them in stock, I had to have them special ordered.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 28, 2007, 06:29:53 PM
[COLOR="Red"]Next Freakish Problem:[/COLOR]
Whenever I'm driving around, the Oil Pressure gauge is almost always low.
When I start the car, it usually moves to the middle or "norm" area, but shortly thereafter, it drops to low, hovering just about the red.
If I gun the engine and keep the RPM's high for a long time, the pressure gauge goes up slightly, almost to the middle, but once I have to slow or stop, it drops right back to almost the red.
I know these gauges are notorious for being bad, but I always thought the problems with the gauges had to due with them being too high. I suppose I could have a faulty Pressure Sending Unit, but if it was bad, wouldn't the gauge always stay in the red?
I'm currently running 20w-40, and I don't know if that would really cause this problem.
The car runs good, but I don't want to take a chance and throw a bearing or something because the oil pump was on the fritz.
Any ideas?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Blackout on February 28, 2007, 06:51:53 PM
Sounds like a sending unit to me. They arent that difficult to replace and are relativly cheap. I dont suppose your temp and fuel guages read low too do they? If so, I would say you have an IVR problem.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 28, 2007, 09:00:27 PM
Quote from: DakotaEpic;130768
Yeah, he's serious. He's actually done it for people at Cat Jam.
He fixed my car that way too. When I saw what he was about to do I said "oh, cool you're going to be buying me a new door?" It worked though, dammit.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on February 28, 2007, 10:09:37 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;131872
He fixed my car that way too. When I saw what he was about to do I said "oh, cool you're going to be buying me a new door?" It worked though, dammit.
Hmmm...so you're saying I should pay for a one way ticket for Mr.Eric to fly down to Tucson to fix my door eh? I'll think about it. I actually put in the Pin and Bushings for the Top Hinge and it seemed to help quite a bit. The doors' not hitting the body anymore, although I think if I replace the bottom pin and bushings, it will completely remove any sag left. However, the problem of the Top Right side of the door being inset more than it should and the bottom right of the door being more outset still persists. When I loosened the hinges connected to the door and "twisted" the door to fix this problem, I ended up with another problem. The gap between the top of the door and the body was too great and when I test drove the car, I kept hearing the swooshing of wind. Not pleasant.
(I had a nightmare changing out the Oil Pressure sending unit on my old 3.8l Base Model t-bird. If that's what needs replacing, I don't want to have to go through hell again to change it. Also, the Temp gauge seems to work, although for a majority of the winter, it's remained towards the "cool" side of the scale, but it does move. The gas gauge works just fine though.)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on February 28, 2007, 10:21:49 PM
Quote from: DMC24guy;131882
Hmmm...so you're saying I should pay for a one way ticket for Mr.Eric to fly down to Tucson to fix my door eh?
...
(I had a nightmare changing out the Oil Pressure sending unit on my old 3.8l Base Model t-bird. If that's what needs replacing, I don't want to have to go through hell again to change it. Also, the Temp gauge seems to work, although for a majority of the winter, it's remained towards the "cool" side of the scale, but it does move. The gas gauge works just fine though.)
No... I replied not realizing that topic was discussed so long ago.
And, I'm not certain of the locations, but those sensors/sending units will probably be a lot more accessible on a 2.3L and not nearly as nightmarish. I do remember having a helluva time changing the TFI module on my '84.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 02, 2007, 08:22:07 PM
Ok, so I've got some good news. I'll let the pictures do the talking:
It's so quiet now. It's funny. It's so nice to actually have a job done right for a change. No more waking up the neighbors at 4am, no more getting headaches from Exhaust fumes/Excessive Cabin Noise, and now I can hear the whine of the turbo.
Oh btw, this is what my Brake Fluid looks like: (http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/exhaust001.jpg)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 02, 2007, 08:37:18 PM
Quote from: DMC24guy;132144
...and now I can hear the whine of the turbo.
Better get some heat wrap on that to quiet it down.
:D
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ether947 on March 02, 2007, 08:39:57 PM
Wow, that TC is pretty clean.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 02, 2007, 08:45:39 PM
Quote from: Ether947;132149
Wow, that TC is pretty clean.
Indeed. Has all the hassle been worth it?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 02, 2007, 08:46:30 PM
Like I said, those pictures of the car I showed everyone in the beginning don't do it justice. Once I get it hand waxed....it'll look real good.
The hassle has been worth it. Looking at the items on my "to do list", there really aren't that many.
-Get the Brake Fluid Flushed, and if necessary, clean the sensors. -Install the Pin and Bushings for the Bottom Hinge on the Drivers side door. -Possibly Change out Right Front Strut, or the Mount. Whatever necessary to rid car of clunking when it hits bumps.
And that's pretty much it other than minor tinkering around.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on March 02, 2007, 08:54:07 PM
i want another one
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 02, 2007, 09:25:19 PM
dude congrats. thats shapin' up real nice. i take back all the doubts i had about that car. i think. LOL seriously especially looking at the underside. i almost wouldnt care about what the older pictures showed once i saw that underside. good ol Arizona, huh? i dont even think i can find a SPOT of rust. you lucky . :beatyoass:
i cant believe ive taken so long to ask this. ive seen erthat 2nd gen firebird in other pictures of yours. thats sweet too, is that a family members, or is that yours too?
good job man, have fun!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 02, 2007, 09:30:40 PM
Forgive me for not wading through the rest of this thread but have you eliminated swaybar endlinks as a source of the clunking?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 02, 2007, 09:55:33 PM
How does one check the Swaybar endlinks? I have not checked them obviously.
Oh, that Firebird is my dad's car. He's slowly restoring it. (http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/firebird.jpg)
(Yes, Arizona Car indeed. No rust. Always nice.)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 02, 2007, 10:22:09 PM
cool. looks great, i like that body style. smokey and the bandit!!!!!
whichever of the front wheels you want to examine, turn the wheel (w/ steering wheel, not as in roatation) all the way in the direction of that side wheel (reference point being sitting in the driver's seat) so all the way left for the driver's side wheel....
and the end link goes between your sway bar and the control arm ("A-Arm"). there will be colored rubber bushings, they shouldnt be severely worn away or disfigured (or missing) and the whole assembly shouldnt be loose. if theres anything wrong, just go to your local parts store and ask for a sway bar end link kit. included is the actual end link (the shaft connecting the sway bar and arm) and necessary hardware, as well as the bushings. i think when i did mine i had to ask for two. it doesnt come as a full set for both wheels.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 03, 2007, 07:14:05 AM
All the endlink is is basically a long bolt, 4 washers, two bushings and a metal tube/sleeve. Cheap easy fix if that's what's wrong with it.
It's pictured here, almost in the center of the picture pointing straight up and down:
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ether947 on March 03, 2007, 08:45:01 AM
You should replace struts in pairs. And yeah, a broken endlink will cause clunking on bumps.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Billyf17 on March 03, 2007, 09:57:00 AM
Not necessarily. I had a broken end link on the Cougar, and it made a ting sound over bumps rather than a clunk. They are cheap enough to just replace though. Also when I ordered mine, I got both sides in one kit. So depending on where the part is ordered, you can get either one or both.
The clunking could come from the strut mounts or the lower control arm bushings. We had a Mustang that was clunking at work. We ran in circles for about a month trying to figure it out. The one mechanic basically replaced the whole front suspension minus control arms and springs, and the clunk was still there. Just be careful with noises. They can end up costing a ton if you can localize it. Start with the end links, most of the time one side has sheared off causing the clunk.
Hope you get it all taken care of, that is one nice looking TC. It's a shame that all of these little pesky problems are coming out of such a nice looking car. It reminds me of my Cougar. :giggle:
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 03, 2007, 01:06:09 PM
yup i think youre gonna have to get rid of "Still gets no respect" from your sig there. it has redeemed itself. :bowdown:
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 03, 2007, 08:23:59 PM
And here's one of the Firebird for the heck of it: (http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/nightbird001.jpg)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on March 03, 2007, 09:40:21 PM
nice looks great!!!!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 03, 2007, 10:50:07 PM
dude i dont know if thats because the sun isnt shining on it, or because you cleaned it up, or what. but it looks SICK, much better than in the other pics. headlights are great too!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 03, 2007, 11:01:34 PM
I brasso-ed the hell out the headlights and it worked well. As for the body? Just a little Nu-Finish and a California Car Duster and that's it. New Tires all the way around as well. Also "Fixed" the Foglights too.
This car definitely has the best paint job of any of the T-birds that I've owned so far. No rust and no Oxidation.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 06, 2007, 10:04:31 PM
Ok, continuing with the Problem Theme of this thread, today I encountered something strange. As you all know, I've been having problems with the ABS light and occasionally the Brake Light coming on. When driving around town, a good 75% of the time I step on the brakes, the ABS light momentarily comes on, and turns off. Sometimes when this happens both the ABS and red Brake light will come on and both shut off in a split second. I have plenty of brake fluid...allbeit, a bit dirty.
The brakes have always worked fine, except the Anti-locking feature doesn't seem to be functioning.
Anyway, I'm driving down a hilly road today (lots of braking needed) for about 30 minutes, and near the end of the road, both the ABS and Brake lights come on and stay on. I pull over and shut the car off and restart it. Again, they both come on and stay on.
I drive home and let the car sit for about 20 minutes. After turning it back on, both lights are gone.
Why would this happen?
Also, I was going to go to the quarter car-wash tomorrow and try to spray off the Sensors on the wheels to see if I can get any dirt or metal shavings that might be on them to fall off. Does anyone have a diagram or pictures of the sensors so I know what to shoot at?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 06, 2007, 10:11:57 PM
Bleed the friggen brakes already....geez...
You keep pumping dirty, moisture-laden fluid through the pump and such you are going to burn it up....
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 06, 2007, 10:28:55 PM
I'm in the process of doing that. Now, back to my question. These sensors, do they need to be unplugged to be cleaned, or can I just shoot them with the pressure washer?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: stuntmannick on March 06, 2007, 11:05:33 PM
I seriously doubt cleaning the sensors will make any difference.
I'd just worry about that brake fluid and go from there.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 07, 2007, 10:35:48 AM
On a lighter note, I need to repaint the Black trim around the windshield. What is the procedure for removing it?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 07, 2007, 07:31:17 PM
Quote from: DMC24guy;133021
On a lighter note, I need to repaint the Black trim around the windshield. What is the procedure for removing it?
Simply put. Very carefully.
It has spring clips that are attached to small posts that point inward all around the windshield. When you pull the trim off, it will do one of two things. The trim will slide out from under the spring clip, leaving it in place, or it will pull the entire spring clip off of the post. In the latter case, simply tap *CAREFULLY* the spring clips back onto the posts surrounding the window. Reinstalling the rest of the trim should be pretty self explantory. Aside from removing possible broken clips it should be a tool-less job. Especially considering you're working so close to the glass.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 07, 2007, 10:49:07 PM
So uh...what should I use to pry it off? My fingers? A flathead Screwdriver?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 13, 2007, 09:12:20 PM
[COLOR="Red"]New Inquiry![/COLOR]
Where can I get myself a drivers side door Upper and lower hinge set? I've changed out the pins and bushings on the door yet it still sags and has play in it. Upon further examination, it appears the hole in the part of the hinge connected to the door is bigger than the Pin and is allowing sway, meaning the door can still sag.
So, I need to get the hinges themselves now. Checked ebay...found nothing. Where can I get them? Are there any other cars with the same hinges I can use?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on March 13, 2007, 09:16:44 PM
how long are you willing to wait i might be able to pull them from my 88 in april
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 13, 2007, 09:20:20 PM
No, I would like a set of new, or refurbished Hinges. Sorry, can't take any chances.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on March 13, 2007, 09:31:08 PM
ok figured id offer
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 13, 2007, 10:29:36 PM
You're just going to have to deal with a set of good used ones..
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ether947 on March 14, 2007, 01:13:29 PM
I'm sure Aerobird can hook you up with some good used ones.
I'm sure there's some grandma pampered thundercat in a yard somewhere as well.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DakotaEpic on March 14, 2007, 04:39:17 PM
Seriously, new parts for these cars just don't really show their faces anymore. You should know that.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: cougarcragar on March 14, 2007, 05:12:02 PM
Paint the rear window trim while it's on the car. While the process will take longer (lots of taping to do), this approach eliminates the chance of ruining the trim and it will produce the same effect. I've done it this way more than once and it always turns out great.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: P71 on March 14, 2007, 06:13:01 PM
Somebody say my name??
:D
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 14, 2007, 06:19:11 PM
I'm going to need you to go ahead and send me the best pair of Driver's side door hinges you can find. So, if you could get on that as soon as possible...that would be great. Thanks!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ether947 on March 14, 2007, 09:20:49 PM
Quote from: cougarcragar;134539
Paint the rear window trim while it's on the car. While the process will take longer (lots of taping to do), this approach eliminates the chance of ruining the trim and it will produce the same effect. I've done it this way more than once and it always turns out great.
I screwed up the trim on darkthunder removing it... it's surprisingly easy to do that. I agree, leave it on.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: P71 on March 15, 2007, 10:19:10 AM
I have a set ready to ship (they are silver unless you want me to paint them black), shoot me a PM for price. I can ship them TODAY.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 15, 2007, 12:38:42 PM
Yeah...I'm going to need you to go ahead and send them to me for free...yeah. So, I'll go ahead and send you the shipping money, and ah...if you could get them shipped out by..oh....noon...that would be terrific.
Thanks!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DakotaEpic on March 15, 2007, 09:24:36 PM
I know it's from Office Space, but over the net you just sound like a dick, so you may just want to not do that in the future.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 15, 2007, 10:53:54 PM
haha well there you go i thought he was randomly asking for em for free!!!!:eek: :eek:
now i see it though. good one, but yeah i gotta side with dakota, lol.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 15, 2007, 11:01:10 PM
ahhh...yeah...I don't know what you guys are talking about. Me and Mr.Aerobird have been communicating via PM, so everything is...uh...taken care of. It's all just terrific.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Ifixyawata on March 15, 2007, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: DMC24guy;134803
ahhh...yeah...I don't know what you guys are talking about. Me and Mr.Aerobird have been communicating via PM, so everything is...uh...taken care of. It's all just terrific.
That's grrreat.
(http://www.garycole.net/gallery/osa.jpg)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 16, 2007, 11:39:51 AM
Ok Aerobird, I have sent you the $148 you requested for the drivers side door hinges via paypal. I hope they really are the best of the best with honors.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: 46Tbird on March 16, 2007, 04:28:14 PM
Seriously?
You sent $150 for a pair of hinges?
Let me know first next time you need some parts!!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Tbirdmaniac on March 16, 2007, 05:13:16 PM
Me too, I'll gave You with a stainless hinges at this price....
Dom.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 17, 2007, 09:21:29 PM
Ok, I changed the plugs today, but the problem I was hoping to maybe eliminate is still there. I have a strange Idle.
When I'm driving around town, and come to stops, the idles fluctuates. The I can see the tach going up and down. It's not a great change, but it moves from about 1k down to maybe 850-900 and back up. Over and over and over again. It ALWAYS does this. Never a solid constant idle, just up and down over and over.
This sound familiar to anyone?
Here is a Video of me starting the car and letting it sit in park. As you can see, the tach does strange stuff. near the end of the video you see the green Firm Ride light come on. That's me applying the brakes and shifting to park. The tach drops to "normal" 1k. (Right Click and Save Link as...)
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on March 17, 2007, 10:00:56 PM
that is very odd, have you tryed the disconnect the battery trick? cleaned the tps, throttle body, checked the fpr thats all i can think of.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 17, 2007, 11:49:59 PM
-Don't know of the "disconnect the battery trick" -You can...Clean..the tps? -Don't think it's a fuel issue. Just a strange idle. I think the timing may be too high. The plugs I pulled today were White.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on March 18, 2007, 12:46:41 AM
disconnect the battery, let it stay off for a few mins, reconnect it and start the car, do NOT touch the gas after wards just let it idle for a bit. tps should just on bolt and you can use some throttle body cleaner and blast it out, never played with a 2.3 much yet wait for others to chime in and correct me, i know that battery thing works
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 18, 2007, 01:56:31 AM
Problem is, had the battery disconnected for well over an hour today while changing the plugs, and it was still doing that idle thing after that.
As for the TPS, it's in a rather tight area near the firewall, so getting that off might take it bit of time.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 18, 2007, 08:54:50 AM
You guys need to make sure you know what you're talking about when giving advice...esp you daboss....
You don't clean the TPS with carb cleaner...or anything at all. It is the THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR that is attached to the TB and you adjust it..... The IAC is what you should remove and clean to possibly help with idle issues.
You mentioned the timing...well what is the base ignition timing? Sounds like you might need to go through and set the base timing and readjust your TPS and idle speed.
Have you replaced the fuel filter?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 18, 2007, 08:57:06 AM
And you know what? This continuing thread thing works fine on general progress on a project car, etc....but it's a REAL pain in the ass when trying to help diagnose problems....
Start a new thread for different problems in the appropriate areas.....it will help us help you.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: daboss351 on March 18, 2007, 11:09:37 AM
maybe thats it the iac, i know my dad told me to clean one of those sensors before with throttle body cleaner and it worked, ive gotten that from my dad, who worked at a ford dealership in service for 20 years, so sorry, my mistake
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 18, 2007, 12:18:04 PM
Well, here is some information I was able to get from the paperwork I found in my glovebox:
Evidently, the following stuff was Replaced and or "done" in Late July of 06.
(They got ripped, could have bought another car with that money....)
All of this work being done explains why the car seemingly runs so well despite having 200+ Thousand miles on it.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 18, 2007, 01:50:30 PM
Clean the IAC and check base timing.
Then adjust idle and TPS voltage.
Check out the "Tech Articles" HERE (http://www.turbotbird.com/) for the procedure....
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 18, 2007, 06:13:48 PM
Ok guys...I just went outside to check the timing, pulled the spout, turned the engine on, hooked up the Timing light, but couldn't find any marking lines.
I got out the ol' flashlight and kept cranking the engine and checking the pully but couldn't find a marking. The stationary numbers are as clear as day, but I can't find a timing mark.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 18, 2007, 06:46:47 PM
Alright, Checked the timing. It's good. it's around 8-10. I figured if anything it would be too far advanced, but it's not, so that's good.
The IAC is clean.
Yet, the weird idle flux is still there.
Before I go probing the TPS, I just want to make sure that if it's adjusted wrong, it could be the cause of these problems. I'm not so much worried about the high (1100) idle anymore, I just want to fix this fluxing up and down of the idle.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 18, 2007, 07:03:59 PM
Yes....it can.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 18, 2007, 08:33:51 PM
OMG!!! I think I actually did something right for a change! (Knock on Wood)
So, I start the car and let it warm up to running temp. I turn it off, unplug the IAC connector and restart. The idle was too low. About 500rpm. So, I adjusted the idle screw so it was about 7-800rpm.
At that point I probed the wires coming out of the TPS report. The reading came out at .75volts. Too low. As I went to adjust the TPS by loosening the screws, I noticed that one of them was already loose. Not good. The thing could have been moving around constantly due to the vibrations of the engine. Anyway, I adjust the TPS over and over until I get the volt meter to read at .95 volts.
I tighten everything up and turn the car off. With the key on, I move the Throttle linkage up and down to check the voltage to make sure there aren't any dead spots. Everything checks out.
I plugged in the IAC connector and took the car for a drive. Everything is good. Idle is nice and smooth. No flux. Not only that, but I didn't have a massive surge to 2k when I shifted from Drive to park. The car ran great. I think I actually did something right!!!
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 18, 2007, 11:12:04 PM
nice!!!! good job man, always feels good to get something done like that, i speak from experience with my own car!
you said it jumped to 2k rpm going from drive to park. GOOD thing you fixed that, sounds like that may have been the equivalent of stopping at a red light, and as you sat there, holding the engine at a higher rpm with the gas pedal, like power-braking for a launch, but doing that for extended amounts of time at a dead stop, which i DONT think is good for your tranny especially these poor AODs!
someone correct me if im wrong but isnt that what would happen?
i guess what i ought to ask is did you have to press the brake harder to stay still? :hick:
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Billyf17 on March 18, 2007, 11:56:51 PM
Congrats on the fix. But this problem was solved back on page 3, almost a month ago. With this post: http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showpost.php?p=130841&postcount=32
Don't worry...it's not the first time I've been overlooked.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DakotaEpic on March 19, 2007, 04:41:09 AM
Quote from: Billyf17;135230
Congrats on the fix. But this problem was solved back on page 3, almost a month ago. With this post: http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showpost.php?p=130841&postcount=32
Don't worry...it's not the first time I've been overlooked.
Awwwwww... Billy!!! Lol I think we were too concerned about his brakes back then to notice much about the other problem. Oh, and did you ever get that damage repaired from that jackass that loosened your lugs?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Billyf17 on March 19, 2007, 07:33:32 AM
No...the car is snowed in. It's going to be a few months before I can get it into my dad's over full and over scheduled garage (brother has an 86 IROC that has turned into a basket case and he wants it done by summer.....not happening haha). Not only that but I don't have the money to properly fix it. I'm gunning for Summer '08 to get it back to DD material, and to get to CatJam. *sigh*
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DakotaEpic on March 21, 2007, 01:36:35 AM
, your car is one of my favorite cats. That sucks. I have no doubt that it will be returned to it's badass origins though eventually.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: DMC24guy on March 27, 2007, 01:51:44 PM
Ok, I just went out and checked my codes. KOEO and KOER. For the KOEO the only code I got was "83" and for the KOER I pulled the code "34". I think 34 means insufficient EGR flow, and looking at some misc websites, 83 seems to indicate a EGR control circuit failure. What should be my next move?
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: EricCoolCats on March 27, 2007, 02:35:12 PM
Well...I think our next move here is to the Engine section of the board. The focus of this thread seems to have shifted from general car problems to more specific engine stuff--I think it's more appropriate there. Maybe the info will help others out too, know what I'm saying? We'll leave a redirect to guide people over for ya.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 27, 2007, 03:06:48 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;136667
Well...I think our next move here is to the Engine section of the board. The focus of this thread seems to have shifted from general car problems to more specific engine stuff--I think it's more appropriate there. Maybe the info will help others out too, know what I'm saying? We'll leave a redirect to guide people over for ya.
Well like I mentioned previously...this thread needs to end. It's too long and rambling to be of much use.
Start new threads for different problems in the appropriate areas....instead of dragging this one out and changing the name each time....
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 27, 2007, 03:58:02 PM
okay not sure if i should be posting here if you guys are gonna close the thread sorry
but DMC, if you dont have emissions testing (specifically if they dont make you hook your tailpipe up to a sniffer), then, if its running and driving alright, i wouldnt worry about it. egr is just for emissions. it could be argued that it helps heat up the intake charge, you dont live in a cold climate so thats not something you need really. if it fouls up and dumps WAY too much exhaust gas in your intake, then it will run like . but if it still runs smooth, is as powerful as it should be, then its probably functioning "good enough". if thats not enough for you, fix it. and in that case i dont know much. maybe a contact is corroded or dirty, or the egr valve is gummed up, or maybe a component has failed. search for jcassity's guide i think its either a sticky or the link is in his signature, i know hes got stuff about egr. ill bet someone will copy and paste part of it.
Title: Pulled Two Codes...Both EGR Related...suggestions?
Post by: Chuck W on March 27, 2007, 09:21:09 PM
My mention on closing it is just a suggestion.
I'll keep making that suggestion until what's-his-nuts catches on and starts new threads for diagnostic help, etc. I can see a rambling thread for a general build, or something of the like, but an ongoing "Help me fix THIS with my car now"..thread doesn't work....at least not for me.