Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: the_intimidator03 on January 29, 2007, 07:34:24 AM

Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: the_intimidator03 on January 29, 2007, 07:34:24 AM
I know most of you would say get under the car n look but im curious to get a rough idea where the inline pump is on my 84 mercury cougar with 3.8 CFI... if memory serves properly there is a high pressure pump IN the tank.. and a low pressure "pusher" pump inline somewhere... could anyone tell me where bouts? and also how would you remove the fuel tank sending unit/pick up?
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: Chuck W on January 29, 2007, 08:54:06 AM
Low pressure lift pump in the tank.  High pressure pump inline.

The inline pump is inside the rear pass side subframe rail where the RLCAs attaches to the car, opposite the ler.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: the_intimidator03 on January 29, 2007, 09:03:46 AM
ok thank you chuck......... btw do u know what kind of pressure just that in tank pump would produce on its own? low enough for a carbed motor?
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: ipsd on January 29, 2007, 10:41:43 AM
I think that the lift pump in the tank is only 5-7psi. Just enough to get the gas out of the tank and into the booster pump. I'll check what the spec book at work says the lifter pump psi and GPH should be.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: Chuck W on January 29, 2007, 11:29:24 AM
Dunno of the exact pressure, but my old carb turbo Pace Car was running an EFI tank with just the lift pump and no regulator.  I didn't set it up that way (got it like that).  Seemed to work fine for a turboed 2.3.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: softtouch on January 29, 2007, 04:43:29 PM
The '84 shop manual doesn't give a pressure spec for the low pressure pump.

The test proceedure:
1. Remove inlet push connect fitting and line from high pressure pump. (Caution: Raise end of fitting above level of fluid in tank to prevent siphon action.)

2. Connect  hose from the fuel tank to a calibrated container of at least one quart.

3. Place the ignition switch in Run position until fuel pump times out. (About one second)

3. The container should contain a minimum of 1.5 oz. (45ml) of fuel for one second of operation.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: the_intimidator03 on January 30, 2007, 03:19:08 AM
mk... thank you
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: Tbirdmaniac on January 30, 2007, 03:59:03 AM
On the 1989 F-150 300ci EFI of My friend, the second pump (inline) pressure is around 40-45 psi...

I guess is the same for all direct injected engines...

Dom.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on January 30, 2007, 05:15:42 PM
im lost,, what are you guys talking about,,,,, A SECOND PUMP?
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: Tbirdmaniac on January 30, 2007, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: jcassity;126702
im lost,, what are you guys talking about,,,,, A SECOND PUMP?


Yes, the first time I see that is on a F-150 pick-up 300 ci fuel injected, the issue was a "high flow pump", but when I go under the truck I hear a pump, that's okay for Me, but not in reality...

The first pump just suck from the sender to the fuel line, and the second raise up at around 40psi to the FI system, I guess when the first pump are sucked by the high pressure pump, there  just a pass trough, or give to the second pump the minimum flow to gave the engine at the idle...

It's just My opinion, and theory, but never scrounger for why...

Best regards,

Dom.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2007, 04:12:00 AM
are you guys saying my cougar and everyone else's car here has a second fuel pump?,, sorry to sound stupid here but geshhh,,, its news to me.

a standard in the tank bosch presure is about 60psi there abouts.  the regulator loops back the excess dumping 40 on the injectors. 

im pretty sure i can see my fuel lines all the way down the subframe until they creep up into the fender well forward of the pass door.

if you are only refering to the f150,, yeah, i was aware of that as well but your first post says different as well as all the replies.

i swear im not going crazy but as soon as i saw your quesiton and the replies,, i felt like i was from mars or something.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2007, 11:51:34 PM
anyone?
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: softtouch on February 01, 2007, 04:47:26 PM
From the '84 shop manual:
Town Car, Crown Vic and Grand Marquis have one high pressure pump in the tank.

Mark VII/Continental, T-Bird/Cougar, LTD/Marquis and Mustang/Capri have two pumps. Low pressure in the tank, high pressure in-line.

The in-line pump is mounted with the filter just forward of the right rear wheel.

They must have discontinued the two pump system in later years.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on February 01, 2007, 06:58:44 PM
eric,, this is an interesting factoid,, i think the 84 specific fuel setup needs added to the tech link on coolcats.  i have had two 84's with cfi, one was a v8 and the other was a v6.  I have no knowledge of this,,,

anyone with an 84 model,, can you check to see if your car has this?

84fila,, you should have it also.

softtouch,, have you seen this pump on your car?

i think its good to know stuff when someone complains about fuel issues and most of us would not make mention of the difference this model has.  perhaps the 83 has the same.,,anyone?????
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: the_intimidator03 on February 02, 2007, 12:41:35 AM
jcassity when i get the chance ill check my cougar for 2 pumps to be sure
the 83 tbird/cougar as far as the 3.8 and 5.0 some had pump's on the engine and some had electric pump in the tank... which is why im lookin for the pick up/sending unit from 83 with pump ON engine so i can do this right
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: softtouch on February 02, 2007, 02:49:58 PM
My 84 3.8L T-Bird has the two pumps. I tried taking a picture by sticking the camara under the car. Not very good results but you can see the pink wire going to it.

(http://users.rcn.com/jroyle/fuel%20pump.jpg)

What I used to do to post pictures doesn't work anymore?
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: softtouch on February 02, 2007, 04:41:32 PM
(http://users.rcn.com/jroyle/fuel%20pump.jpg)

My 84 3.8L T-Bird has the two pumps. I stuck my camera under the car and took some pics with poor results. You can see the pink wire going to the pump.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: softtouch on February 02, 2007, 04:54:17 PM
(http://users.rcn.com/jroyle/fuel%20pump.jpg)

My 84 3.8 has the two pumps. You can see the pink wire to the pump.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on February 02, 2007, 06:06:21 PM
ok,,
well i just dont know why this second pump thing has not come up in the past.  Perhaps i wasnt paying attention but i dont ever remember this ever being brought up even on the old board.

i took a note of it,, thats all i really needed.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: Old_Paint on February 09, 2007, 12:10:43 AM
Interesting indeed.  My 86 has only the in-tank pump.  No second pump here boss.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on February 09, 2007, 01:55:20 PM
i think anyone with 83 o 84 cars should be on the look out for a "different way" to approach fuel related troubleshooting.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: mrcoffee402u on February 10, 2007, 12:17:51 AM
my 83 ls 3.8 v6 running throttle body injection only had an in tank pump which i pulled when the 5.0 set up for edelbrock carb went on. i pulled the entire fuel system to run new and larger lines from tank to motor for a hi flow edelbrock mechanical fuel pump. mark
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: 84 Fila on February 10, 2007, 01:45:48 AM
I just saw this, what do you need me to do? I do have 2 pump, yes. And I'll be trying to run a carbed 302 on the in-tank pump. Is that what your asking?
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: the_intimidator03 on February 10, 2007, 05:02:35 AM
basically...... i just want to do things the right way and find the correct fuel pick up and sending unit that does NOT have a pump on it... but if the pump that is IN the tank is low pressure (4-5 psi or so) then i would be safe to run that on a carb.... i dont want to bypass anything id rather do it right u know?
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: 84 Fila on February 10, 2007, 10:42:57 AM
Yeah. I'm doing this now as I'm swapping to carb on my car. I can let you know how it goes if ya want.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on February 10, 2007, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: 84 Fila;128671
I just saw this, what do you need me to do? I do have 2 pump, yes. And I'll be trying to run a carbed 302 on the in-tank pump. Is that what your asking?



i brought this up in your ever going fila project,, you had questions about how to supply fuel to the carb and i brought this info in,, you replied back and said you had not tested the actual PSI out of the tank yet.,,,, thats all,,, . 

im guilty of pushing the topic,, i just had to know how many folks out there has two pumps and it turns out itshiznit or miss but isolated to the 83 and 84 years only.

some 83 or 84 years has this while others will not is what i can see so far.


Perhaps it depends on where the car was made.

softouch,, where was your car made? its in the vin number
84fila,, where was your car made? its in the vin number
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: 84 Fila on February 10, 2007, 01:32:43 PM
1FABP46F5Eh199942. Dearborn IIRC
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: softtouch on February 10, 2007, 05:45:23 PM
My car has a build date of 3/84.
The eleventh position of the VIN = H= Lorain Assembly Plant.
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: the_intimidator03 on February 10, 2007, 06:31:25 PM
fila please do let me know... either on this forum or send me a pm... would be appreciated
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: 84 Fila on February 11, 2007, 01:14:54 AM
It's lorain, Ohio. I have no f'in clue why I said dearborn.

I'll keep you posted. If you want the whole story just check here. It details to some extent all I have done so fare. Pics and more info tomorow. If you check often you get ALOT of stuff on the car.
Fila project from day one.. (http://"http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=10977")
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: Fred on February 11, 2007, 06:31:12 PM
'83 Heritage 'Bird, V6 has one mechanical pump on the engine,  V8 has one electric in tank rated at 39# of pressure.  Fred
Title: fuel pump locations
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2007, 09:54:54 PM
Quote from: Fred;128942
'83 Heritage 'Bird, V6 has one mechanical pump on the engine,  V8 has one electric in tank rated at 39# of pressure.  Fred


no,, thats the fuel presure regulator you have there.  the in tank pump is about double that.