wtf is this that chevy is using a 427 in the Z06? i mean thats awesome as heck, but i hear alot of parts, just lik everytihng GM, is FORIGN. can u beleive that? its like.. An Asian Revolution.... :mad:
anyways it says it will have 500 hp, and will be the new viper/GT slayer
correct me if im wrong, but the GT outran the viper in all accel tests, and has 50 more horses over the corvette. plus im sure it will be lighter and more aeridynamic, and JUST MADE FOR RACING sence its a race car. i lost respect for GM ever sence they use nothing but asian parts.
buddy of mine works at GM as some kinda parts someinthing or another manager, and he says well more than half of all parts are from asia. wasnt it like 60% of the duramax was built by isizu?
i just dont get it, how they have to resort to asian parts, when they can make it right here right now. and i hate it when ppl bitch about how america doesnt have anything as good. well i wonder why, maybe because everybody is buyin forign?
i kno ford uses alot of forign parts, but i think its the most american made out there.
the thing is, the parts are american/australian developed, but its cheaper to have them manufactured in other countries
why do you think 90% of the stuff in the US is made in asian countries?
When chevy says "an american revoltion" they mean that they still give people in america jobs ptting all of th asian parts together
Hooray for NAFTA. :shakehead
Simple fact is, you can't buy a car made entirely in one country any more, especially a smaller one. Just like a Ranger and B2200 are the same thing as is an S10 and Isuzu truck, a Dodge and a Mitshubisi, Nissan's are made here in TN, Toyotas in CA, and on and on and on. Harleys aren't even completely U.S. parts anymore. It's all part of our "global" economy
And dont forget that all new Toyota pickups are gonna be made here in Texas. Problem is that a lot of stuff is cheaper to make in other countries because of lower standard of living and no labor unions. No need to complain about it, just deal with it. :)
Oh one more thing...many workers don't even want unionization at these new American factories.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0405/18/a01-156198.htm
I think unions traditionally do poorly down here. (the south) Just saw a show the other day before Discovery Wings became the Milf, err Military channel, and they were talking about the aircraft company Bell.. and how they made a factory in Texas after union problems at a plant up near Buffalo.. because of the differing attitudes about unions down here.
They are going to go with what's cheapest every time. From what I understand GM is paying out the arse in pensions to ex employees and it's killing profits. (Thank your uniion) I think GM has Mexico truck plants as well. Thats what bugs me when people get fired up at someone for buying a toyota. Your "American made" cars are largely foreign parts anyway, and with the foreign cars being made over here now I don't see how you complain. Not to mention most of the in your house is made elsewhere unless you made effort to check every label and tag on your stuff before you bought it. Im not knocking unions either, but there needs to be checks and balances. If the union abuses it's power and gets everyone $30/hr jobs others will suffer from it. It's like anything else, those who have the power abuse it wether it's the union or the employer. It's difficult to have that happy medium. I also hear unions trying to crack into wal-mart in California. Thats going to be sweet, Wal-Mart guy making more than 4year graduate, and roll of toilet paper costing about 10 bucks.
As far as that car goes, it won't matter if it beats the GT in some form or another, because the dang door handles will prob. fall off when it gets to be a couple years old.
There are no door handles on the Corvette or XLR....they're electronic. ;) Just pulling your leg, man, we get the point.
Unions have killed just about everything worthwhile in my area, which is a highly union-oriented part of the state. They were a necessity in the 1930's but today, they're just a way to guarantee that the screw-ups that get fired for a legitimate reason will miraculously get their jobs back, no questions asked. I can't tell you the number of times that I've heard that story over the years. The local UAW has ensured that most of the workers at the Lordstown, OH GM assembly plant (Chevy Cobalt/Pontiac Pursuit for Canada) get high pay, lots of days off, lots of overtime, and job protection. This has therefore created one of the most coddled, lazy, crybaby workforces I've ever seen. It's embarassing to say the least. Is it different at Ford? Or Chrysler? Probably not, but we never hear about them...we just hear about General Mismanagement's way of doing things.
Now the GT vs. Z06: don't forget that the GT has already had 3 recalls, one of them being for a defective front suspension control arm. On a $150,000 car. Plus the dealer markup/gouging thing. So don't knock the GM car that isn't out yet when the Ford car is already faulty now. But the GT and Mustang are more Amercian than most other American vehicles, that much is true. They're the only heritage vehicles left in the U.S. Even our cop cars (Crown Vic) are made in Canada.
As a member of an auto union....do me a favor and get a clue before spouting off about how our wages are making others suffer.....that's simply bullshiznit fed to you by the media. If people only had a clue how much car companies make on their product and the % of that car companies cost that is their employees pay who build their product is small in comparison. I work at the ford Oakville site in Canada and I know for fact Ford's cost in terms of wages to build a Freestar is just over $1,000 per van pretty small considering that's paying well over 1500 people who worked on it. I also know for fact that they rake in in excess of $9000 per van after everything else is bough and paid for.....wages, parts, materials, electriciity, you name it. And that's a product that's not even anywhere near their most profitable......trucks hold that distinction. Nobody in the media ever mentions that though do they and they never would because that would biting the hand that feeds you...ie...all that advertising money given to them to advertise their products .
Your thinking about unions doesn't surprise me though....it's typical as that's what the media plants in people's heads and the media plants it because that's what companies like GM, Ford, etc. tell the media...pensions are killing them, wages, yadda, yadda, yadda. Plenty of the import car companies that build their product right in the USA and Canada are not unionized and pay less but their product costs just as much or more than the Domestics...why is that? Simple...profit rules the auotmotive world. Don't ever believe that if assemblers were making $10 an hour that cars would cost less because they wouldn't and the proof of that lies in all the vehicles built in mexico as they make f#ck all wages wise.....it would just be more money going to the corporate coffers.
Are unions bad....I'll be the first to tell you they do some bad things like protecting the dog ****ers....but it's not as rampant as some believe to be true. I bust my ass everyday at work on the line and take pride in doing my job to the best of my ability....I don't ship unfinished work down the line, I'm at work everyday and have never been off on compensation, medical restriction, etc in the 13 years I've been working for Ford. Feeling tired and dealing with the aches and pains as I get older from my "lazy ass" job must be my imagination to some. Until you've humped it on the line...especially in the summer when it can get up to a good humid as hell 90+ degrees, you don't have an opinion as far as I'm concerned.
Back to topic now please.....Gt vs Vette
Funny, I kinda thought the same things about unions, and I don't even listen to/watch the media. (well, aside from the Weather Channel and ESPN.com)
Probably a good thing that I don't have much contact with those members of my family who are in unions.. heh.
Actually a lot of the payment is for disgustingly high health care costs. Everyone feels the pinch when they look at their HMO benefits, but big companies like GM are really screwed. Health care legislation is the main problem here.
That being said, the Corvette should have a similar power to weight ratio as the GT with all its exotic materials and beefy motor lifted from the C5R racing program, be more comfortable for daily use, more features (heads up, navigation, etc), be more plentiful, and be $40,000 cheaper.
Hard performance numbers aren't in yet, but the Vette will probably win this one for most enthusiasts.
The new Z06 should be extremely close performance wise to the GT...the GT getting the edge in all out top speed. Power to weight ratio is dead even as the Z06 only weighs 3100lbs...roughly 300+ lighter than a GT. Going by it's power and weight the new Z06 should run high 11's, mid 3's on 0-60 and top out about 190 mph....all for $75,000 MSRP. Love it or hate it it's hard to ignore those numbers.
It may seem sacreligious to some but check out http://www.digitalcorvettes.com they have a bunch of info, specs on the engine, pics, etc on the new Z06. In a nutshell the '06 Z06 is a street legal race car as the engine has a lot of exotic stuff going on.
I have never been a Corvette fan, but I must say I am highly impressed with the new Z06. Like Hawk says, it's a race car in street clothing. Just read about the changes made to the engine and you'll see that it is no ordinary, "ancient technology" (to use my own term) pushrod small-block. The car is incredible.
That being said, I'm sure Ford will simply swap a supercharger pulley and add another 50 or more horsepower, or at least I would hope they would do something like that to keep the domestic performance crown.
As for unions: If a company treats its emplyees right there will be no need for unions. The CAW has been trying to unionize local car dealerships for years, and it has succeeded in the ones with bad emplyee-employer reputations and they consistently fail in dealerships with happy employees (I worked at just such a dealership). The local Import dealerships are known for keeping their staff happy by offering good pay, treating them with respect and providing benefits, and I'm sure import manufacturing plants would be pretty much the same thing. Conversely the local domestic dealerships are usually owned by families that have owned them for generations, the car guys in the families are usually long dead, and the employees are treated as liabilities instead of assets (I worked at one of these too). If the emplyees were unhappy they would certify, whether the manufacturers (or dealership owners) liked it or not.
i didnt read all the talk about unions, but i think somebody should lock this thread before another one of our tempertantrums makes everyones daily visit miserable. PEACE LOVE SURF NAKED!
Hey Hawk....(nice car by the way) I don't watch news/media nor have I ever heard anything about the automotive industries union problems from such sources. I make a conscious effort to not be directed by the opinions of others because there is a lot of floating around out there. Mostly I apply common sense. I am not saying that becuase you are in a union you don't work hard either. I am saying that everyone can't make the same wage regaurdless of what you do or how well you do it. (Thats sort of like communism) I have three family members that work in three different unions and they all say about the same things. That's where most of my opinions about unions come from, not some idiot on TV. When the lazy ass that screws up makes the same pay and benefits that the guy (you) who works hard and shows up on time every day, there's something wrong with that. Not every union accross the whole country is the same either. Every employee deserves a fair wage and a descent work environment, but everyone should be held accountable for how well they do their job. It's nice to know that Ford is making great profits. And obviously no company is going to price their cars according to wages of employees, but if GM unions are squeezing the company and they have to produce a cheaper car to make up profits thats going to hurt the company in the long run. I do not disagree with any of your comments exept "Back to topic now please.....Gt vs Vette". You can't just dish out a bunch of attacks and then decide to end it.
Funny how if someone in any union hears someone say something negative about any union they get all defensive. Never fails, and I knew there would be at least one union member on this board.
Eric, I know I knocked on the chevy pretty quickly but I was in love with the late 80's early 90's camaro, but it was just such a piece of . Engine and tranny worked great, but every little piece of everything kept breaking. I got the car in great shape with only 80k and it still wasn't very good. If it needed a tune-up it would quit running in the middle of the street. I am still bitter, and will hold it against GM for at least another 10 years. Maybe when they bring the Camaro back I will give it another try.
I dished out a Bunch of attacks? :dunno:
Why is it funny that I defend myself because I hear someone talk shiznit about something I don't agree with.....it's called an opinion and everyone's entitled to one.... that's why you voiced an opinion as well.....but leave it at that because frankly that statement above is ignorant and just adds fuel to the fire. You'd be just as quick defending yourself if someone (As a crude example) made a blanket statement that all guys named Jason are lazy dog f#ckers....you wouldn't get defensive? My guess is you'd be in there with :2gunsfiri
Anyway I'm done with anymore talk on this subject as I know where it will end up going....a flame war........even though we're supposed to be talking about Vette vs GT
Not me... all the Jasons I know are :giggle:
The current Corvette is kinda fat and ugly, I think. It could be twice as fast and half as expensive as the GT and I still wouldn't want one.
When I think about or hear Corvette, this is what pops to mind.. and if I ever owned a Vette, it would be one of this body style. (probably a 71 tho) It's about the only exception to my no-Chevys rule. :p
Did you say this???
Sorry, I can't leave stuff alone. I didn't mean to offend you. I agree with all of your opinions except for the above contradiction. And I was not trying to make any blanket statements about unions, sorry if it sounded that way. If we had this conversation face to face over a couple of beers and an engine it would probably go a lot better.
What I meant by the top quote was that I don't feel people have a valid opinion about unionized auto workers until you've been in their shoes and worked on the line.
And yeah...these conversations always go better face to face...especially over a beer. On a forum it just never comes across the same and more often than not statements come across as hostile when typed out....and a lot of times they weren't meant that way by the person typing it. :cheers: