Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

For the love of God, I am going to make every diode, resistor, wire and switch on this computer become confetti on the street in front of my house! 

Up until tonight I had gone about 6 months without using the system restore feature to rid myself of viruses (I find it to work MUCH more efficiently than Norton or McAfee).  That was by far the longest time in this computer's 3 year tenure with me.  Well, leave it to my father-in law to get something on here that I cant even delete in safe-mode.  :mad:  I really hate doing the restore because I have to re-install:

iTunes
My web-browser software
Microsoft Office
Quicktime
Adobe Acrobat 7.0

Not to mention the moving of all my files (pictures, movies, reports, etc.) so they aren't lost too.  There goes about 3 hours of my life!  I'll do it tomorrow afternoon.............

I feel your pain. My next comp will be a Mac as well.

well if i was there paul id do it for ya... my father owns a computer business so we mess with that all the time :-p

Huh?  You shouldnt lose programs because of System Restore.  All SR does is roll back to old drivers/registry settings etc.  Programs and regular files shouldnt be affected; I've done it many times without such problems.

I'm guessing he did the full system restore from bootup. I've done that once or twice, and you do have to reinstall everything although I never understood why (it keeps all the programs you have installed, it's just that none of them work after that kind of system restore)

System restore removes any changes made to the registry and system file changes since the restore point was set. Any programs that changed any system settings or made entries into the registry won't work after a restore - otherwise, if it made exceptions, it wouldn't be much of a restore feature (how would it know spyware from legit programs?). It should leave your personal files alone, but some big computer manufacturers (Dell, Gateway) make it so that when you use their restore function you format the drive and reinstall an image of windows as the day the computer was built. With those ones you lose everything.

yeah i <3 system restore!!!!
 
though i almost never have to use it. i guess its because i visit about 5-10 different sites on the net, this being one of them, so i never run into stuff loaded with malware and viruses.
 
it sucks because i have a tough time understanding friends' and acquaintances' computers that are packed full of spyware/viruses when i go and help clean their machines out. i never have anything, its just like different worlds.
 
just dont let anyone tell you the Mac is not susceptible to viruses. theres just not a large enough chunk of the population that buys Macs and writes viruses for them.
 
and be prepared, theyre NOT cheap (biggest reason id never own one)

Well...you're 1 for 2 LOL. They aren't cheap. But component quality (and build quality, including fit and finish) are second to none, and for that money you get a LOT of computer. You get what you pay for...Macs are not entry-level Dells, not by a longshot.

As for virii and spyware...they don't exist in the wild. There have been proof-of-concept exercises but thus far, nothing for OS X--which came out in 2001. There was a total of around 60 virii for the old Mac OS (v6 through 9.2)...that's 15 years in all. We caught one at my old job in 1998. It was pretty funny, actually...the virus would self-replicate the desktop printer at a rate of 1 per second. The entire screen would get filled with desktop printers. One of my old co-workers thought she could troubleshoot it and attempted, but couldn't, then she alerted our boss. By that time she had something like 5,000 printers on the desktop. ;) Then we had to go through every burned CD, floppy disk, Jaz/Zip disk, and our systems to clean off the virus. That is absolutely the ONLY time I've ever had to deal with a virus on a Mac. And I've used them for 20 years now. It is entirely possible to create one, sure (anything that affects *nix would affect OS X, in theory). But so far nothing has popped up that is worth scaring anyone over. It is a much more secure operating system. Not invulnerable, just more secure. Malicious attacks are going to go where there are more holes in the defense screen.

I have a mac since april of last year, and never crashes, need cleaning of registry or all the  needed in windows. Its really worth the money....

Do not use the system restore function feature built into windows!  It is a virus harboring safe house.  Every Pc I build gets this feature turned off.  I use AVG free edition or McAfee and a decent spyware remover (and lately not even been using it).  I never have virus issue's.  I only format my computer because I do alot of hardware changing, other than that I have no issues with Windows.  It runs flawless for me 99% of the time. 
 
And being in the Microsoft camp (barely as I use Fedora 40% of the time anymore) I don't believe this "more secure" that all Mac people seem to boast.  (sorry E-man ;) ) I agree more so with the argument that states virus writers (evil people) target the largest market, that being Microsoft.  I'm not sure what Apple Pc market share is but I'm sure its still way below 10%. 
 
Another thing with Microsoft and virus's.  Having worked in a Pc repair environment for the past 5 years I notice the same things leading to a virus infected Pc.  Lack of Windows updates.  90% of infected machines have not been keeping up with there Windows updates that Microsoft offers for free.  If someone here trys to tell me that the "others" don't have updates, poohy to you.  The last time I installed Fedora I had over 300 mb of updates the first go around!  300MB!!  New install of XP I have something like 60mb?!  I'm sure Apples suffer from updates as well but whats it matter?  No one is writing virus's for them (or Linux for that matter).  Its not hard at all, especialy if you have high speed internet.  Rarely is a new windows update larger than 1mb...  Second thing, being the target market for said "evil people" and running a non updated release of XP, most people are uneducated when it comes to keeping themselfs protected.  Its not there fualt that they think the 3 month trial of A/V that came with there 4 year old Pc is expired and tells them every 15 minutes is still good.. right?
 
The last virus that I was infected with was the Blaster Worm.  That was what? 3 or 4 years ago now?  Thats  good.
 
I guess I'm a Windows guy, but having an action pack subscription and significantly more knowledge of the Os than the next guys helps out.  Here I come MCSE.

You make an excellent point about the service pack updates, Claude. That is definitely something that helps...I've seen it time and time again. If everyone could at least jump to XP SP2, a huge number of headaches could be avoided. People do tend to have this notion that if the computer came with it, that's what they'll use. They're afraid of change. Well that's fine until something happens and you start asking yourself, "Could I have avoided this?"

We had an incident a few months ago with one of our clients. They operate a restaurant and have a POS (point-of-sale) system, with a "server" (a main Dell) and 5 satellite computers hooked to it. It's how all the food gets ordered and all the money gets exchanged. The system requires an Internet connection. We found out that the owner was using the "server" for also using Quickbooks, which is fine because it integrates with the POS system. But then we heard that people were jumping on the Internet on the "server" too. And you guessed it: they caught a virus, which took down the server, which took down the POS system, which meant they couldn't even open a cash drawer. The waitresses had to go back to calculators and note pads, and rely on their cash on hand.

We had warned them 8 months prior to get a separate system for Quickbooks and 'Net surfing. They didn't think it was important at the time. Once the system went down for 3 days, though, they ordered a second computer mighty fast-like. We set it up for them and installed Firefox, a host of anti-virus software, and now we can remotely clean their computers. It's been running great ever since. They didn't want to change because it was easy and comfortable, like your favorite pair of slippers. But that just invites trouble sooner or later.

For the record: Macs now have 5% of the new computer market, and approx. 11% of the installed user base. As for the "more secure", like I said, it doesn't mean that a virus can't be done, but for now ignorance is bliss. ;)

Apple does issue individual security updates...there were 7 last year. What's different is how they do them; they're not like a full service pack from Micro$oft. You can install a standalone security update, or just wait until the next dot-fix revision of the OS and that will include it also. The major OS X releases (10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4) all have "dot-fixes". Like right now I'm running the latest fix for 10.4, which is 10.4.8. There was a security update last month. Rumors are that 10.4.9 is on its way soon, so I'm waiting until then to update and then I'll also get the security update. That doesn't mean I'm not secure now, though. Apple just tweaked a few things as a security update and released it prior to the dot-fix. If that makes any sense LOL. Updates are effortless though...truly pain-free. And they're steadily released too. Apple is consistently taking care of every version of the OS to make sure their customers are covered for security.

I build my own computers screw that pre fab'ed  that they sell at "insert big box store here". All i use is Zone alarm security suite and have not had a virus for about 2 years, and i put my computer into some unsavory situations, Torrent sites ect.

I never get viruses or spyware either, but I've had to deal with them plenty of times on my brother's, sister's, parent's, and even employer's computers (in fact my brother's computer is sitting in my office right now awaiting a cleansing). Contrary to what many people think, the spyware problem is not with Windows, it is with Windows users. Probably 99.99% of spyware/viruses is like a vampire - it has to be invited in. Either by installing freeware, downloading  infected files, or opening emails, sooner or later somebody has to click "OK". Spyware authors know this too well and trick people into installing their  by disguising it as something useful, or even necessary. How many times have you visited a website that had a popup window or banner saying "WARNING - YOUR COMPUTER MAY BE INFECTED WITH SPYWARE - CLICK HERE TO FIX IT"? Of course, savvy computer users know that "CLICKING HERE" will only serve to install spyware. Unfortunately most computer users are not "savvy". They see the warning, panic, and install the ware. Once installed the ware usually self-replicates and invites other ware in.

The only "protection" I have on either of my computers (other than keeping them up-to-date) is AVG Free Edition (used to use Norton, got sick of expiring subscriptions and huge overhead). I don't bother with Lavasoft or Spysweeper or HiJack this because I don't get spyware. I've found on other computers that those programs are useless anyway - they don't prevent infection, and once infected, it's far easier to format & reinstall than it is to spend hours chasing spyware down to try to salvage a Windows install.

My next computer will likely be a Mac as well, though that'll be a long way off (so calm down, Eric :D). Now that they're built on Intel platforms, the ability to run windows would ease the pain of transition for me. I'm not impressed with Vista, but I need windows for some programs anyway (Mitchell OnDemand, for one).

Eric I feal your pain on the "multi-use" Server situation.  We have one client, a semi-truck repair shop that uses probably a similar type dell server.  Its sitting in an office under some paper with its ethernet cables strung across the floor.  And the whole mess is covered in about an inch of dust.  Same company also has a seperate machine that "only" runs there napa tracs software.  Whenever I'm there on a call, they show my some woman spread eagle across the front page of the browser they currently have open.....

Thats not the only one either.... Many small businesses do the same.  Now our servers, all rackmounted on two 72u racks with some of the best cable management you've ever seen (thank you very much ;) ).

 

I understand where you're coming from with the "once infected just format" but I always use a good spyware cleaner.  Too many times its taken a 1 legged dog slow computer and brought it right back to life.

I'm impressed with Vista.  For the first time since... well the beginning, Windows users are not in fact the "root" (so to speak) user of the OS.  Current and all past Os's have direct access to core components of the system files but Vista fixes this.  I've used Vista for some time now on a test machine and we even have an office worker using it day to day.  They love it, I love it, We all love it...:)

If you have ever used any Linux distro you soon realize that Vista feels like Linux.  Yes its annoying sometimes, Opening even simple control panel items or similar "higher risk" portions of the operating system results in a black screen and a prompt of "are you sure you want to do this?"  Or "something is trying to access critically system files would you like to continue?". 

Now one of the cooler features is the ability to do "fast user switching" while the PC is a member of the domain.  Currently even with XP users have to old skool it up and type there username and password at a simple little box...  Now they select there username (and user changeable Icon) from the login screen and then type there password.  The new GUI rivals anything out there from any Mac or Linux (have you seen some of the newer Linux tools? :drool: )platform.  It simply fantastic what they have done. 

I'm scared that Vista is in fact an entirely new Os.  Its more than likely going to have more holes in it than a Korean w house and more patches in the first year than a battlefield hospital but I feel it will change the world of virus writers.  In a way to benefit us. 

Another issue to that though, there will always be people with machines out there still running Windows 98.  It was the best f'n thing to hit the market and still is uber powerful, for those people who haven’t seen the need to upgrade.  But with that..  There will just the same always be windows XP machines that are susceptible to Viruses.  You can just imagine an internet world with Vista users, Linux users and Mac users in there safe environments 99% invulnerable to all the shiznit out there taking down all the win9x through XP users.

Re-read my first post and you'll see that I agree with you!  I can always pinpoint when a virus enters this computer even when I can't get rid of it easily.  The culprit is usually one of the outlaws....I have been guilty a couple of times myself,however......I and my wife have been extremely good though......Nothing in about 2 years

Easy fix for viruses - Deep Freeze.

Installed it on parents' machine a few years ago and "froze" the c:, put the desktop, favorites, changed the default program file path, etc to d: which is unfrozen. Every reboot everything on c:, including the registry, is reset back to its previous state. Nothing can be installed and stay installed until you bootup "unfrozen" to install and reboot frozen again. Used to have hundreds of viruses/trojans every time I'd see it, plus spyware. For the last 3 years, its has zero, nor have I had to reinstall windows (used to be an every 4-6 month thing). Highly recommended for those people who seem to get viruses every time they even think of using a computer.

I feel that even on a Mac, soon enough, programs like the above will also be needed. More and more people are switching to a Macintosh because their "PC" gets too many viruses, spyware, and slows to a crawl. Little do they know its not the PC at fault, its the  problem of Windows and their own stupidity. I'm really hoping Linux will be more mainstream in the next 10 years.

I never get spyware or viruses on my computer, It only gets restarted after a windows update and I go all over the internet all the time, (Its winter and cold, I stay inside)


Scott

Mac killed my inner child.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clYOR8vLgE8

Fuigered you all would get a kick out of it ! LOL