Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on January 10, 2007, 09:44:21 AM
Post by: FordThunderbird on January 10, 2007, 09:44:21 AM
ok, guys I'm finally getting around to getting the engine out of my 85 bronco. Its going to my friends tomorrow and we are pulling the motor. I want to put this engine into a 83 T-Bird that has a carbed 3.8 in it. What I need to know is, is there anything except for the engine I need from the bronco? Do I need wiring harnesses from it or anything like that? Also will the c5 tranny thats in the bird work with the 351 for temporary use? I plan to replace it with a stronger tranny in the near future but I just want to get the engine in the car right now.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: cougarman on January 10, 2007, 09:54:31 AM
Post by: cougarman on January 10, 2007, 09:54:31 AM
you will need a different oilpan, the 4X4 bronco one might be close but it will probly sit on the crossmember, the wiring from the 3.8 will work fine as long as your staying carbed, and it has duraspark. you will have to get 351 specific headers also the c-5 will work just fine unless its beat, was the bronco an auto? you might need a different flywheel also
Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on January 12, 2007, 02:02:40 AM
Post by: FordThunderbird on January 12, 2007, 02:02:40 AM
Well guys the engine is out. It took us a while because of rust and bolts that didn't wanna budge. My friend and I pulled it out.
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1162ff8.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1161zm0.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1160rp0.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1159pw3.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1158nq8.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1156xi8.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1155ya3.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1154sy8.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1153iw5.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1152ll5.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1151ri7.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1150jm1.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1149fp2.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1162ff8.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1161zm0.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1160rp0.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1159pw3.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1158nq8.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1156xi8.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1155ya3.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1154sy8.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1153iw5.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1152ll5.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1151ri7.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1150jm1.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf1149fp2.jpg
Title: 351 W install
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 12, 2007, 01:06:25 PM
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 12, 2007, 01:06:25 PM
You will definetly need a Crown Vic 351W oil pan. (Same as Ford Racing swap oil pan.) Your crossmember pedestals are the same as a 5.0 Bird. Just use 5.0 mounts. (As far as I know, Mustang 5.0 mounts work.) Double hump crossmember is needed when you go to dual exhaust. As far as exhaust goes, I've seen guys use 302 shortys and dimple the pipe from cylinder # 7 to clear the steering shaft. The 5.0 fan shroud is needed if the car runs too warm. :birdsmily:
Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on January 18, 2007, 04:06:56 PM
Post by: FordThunderbird on January 18, 2007, 04:06:56 PM
Another Question, Do I need a different flywheel? Also will V6 stock springs be able to hold up to this motor? I wanna go as cheap as possible. I just want to get it running for now.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 18, 2007, 07:12:18 PM
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 18, 2007, 07:12:18 PM
I am not sure on the 351 flywheel to C-5 info. I think the C-5 is a C-4 with a lockup torque converter. As far as I know, all 68-96 351W were of the 28 oz. variety. I do not have any experience hooking a 351W to a C-4 or C-5. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.:birdsmily:
Title: 351 W install
Post by: 1BDBIRD on January 28, 2007, 11:02:35 AM
Post by: 1BDBIRD on January 28, 2007, 11:02:35 AM
The 5.0 motor mounts will work (t-bird 5.0). I just simply bolted mine on to my 351c.I used c-6 tranny so flywheel question is
probably use 5.0 liter flywheel for that,unless its the 50oz one,then you will have a vibration problem. Shorty headers on 351w not sure with the x-tra deck height if 5.0 ones will work. Summit has very cheap swap headers,and fox-body oil-pan conversion kit. Otherwise I have a oilpan for mustang,headers,radiator,flexfan,shroud, laying around.I have everything to do 5.0 swap in foxbody.
Hopefully something I said will help. Good Luck.
probably use 5.0 liter flywheel for that,unless its the 50oz one,then you will have a vibration problem. Shorty headers on 351w not sure with the x-tra deck height if 5.0 ones will work. Summit has very cheap swap headers,and fox-body oil-pan conversion kit. Otherwise I have a oilpan for mustang,headers,radiator,flexfan,shroud, laying around.I have everything to do 5.0 swap in foxbody.
Hopefully something I said will help. Good Luck.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on November 30, 2008, 08:50:45 PM
Post by: FordThunderbird on November 30, 2008, 08:50:45 PM
Well almost 2 years later I now have some time to put the engine in the car :D.
I found these headers would these work?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BBK-1511&N=700+4294908331+4294840125+4294889096+4294923429+4294918680+115&autoview=sku
I found this oil pan would this work?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford+Racing/397/M-6675-A58/10002/-1
I found these headers would these work?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BBK-1511&N=700+4294908331+4294840125+4294889096+4294923429+4294918680+115&autoview=sku
I found this oil pan would this work?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford+Racing/397/M-6675-A58/10002/-1
Title: 351 W install
Post by: Chooglin on November 30, 2008, 09:21:24 PM
Post by: Chooglin on November 30, 2008, 09:21:24 PM
I did a carbed v6 to carbed 302 swap in my 83 bird.I can tell you what I used on mine as far as some of the ?'s you are asking.I am not sure if everything I am going to tell you,will apply for a 351 though.
I did keep the original springs in the car (front and back) with no problems.
I used the v6 flex plate,but I did have to drill the mounting holes,for the larger bolts, for the 302.
I am running the c5 tranny and bellhousing behind my 302 (for the time being).
the headers that you posted,are the same ones that I used.
once again,I dont know if this will apply to the 351,or that it is the correct route to take,but this is what I did.
I did keep the original springs in the car (front and back) with no problems.
I used the v6 flex plate,but I did have to drill the mounting holes,for the larger bolts, for the 302.
I am running the c5 tranny and bellhousing behind my 302 (for the time being).
the headers that you posted,are the same ones that I used.
once again,I dont know if this will apply to the 351,or that it is the correct route to take,but this is what I did.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: Bob on December 01, 2008, 05:30:57 AM
Post by: Bob on December 01, 2008, 05:30:57 AM
Quote from: FordThunderbird;245516
Well almost 2 years later I now have some time to put the engine in the car :D.
I found these headers would these work?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BBK-1511&N=700+4294908331+4294840125+4294889096+4294923429+4294918680+115&autoview=sku
I found this oil pan would this work?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford+Racing/397/M-6675-A58/10002/-1
I got these bbk longtubes http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BBK%2D1569&N=700+115&autoview=sku
and this miloden oil pan http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MIL%2D31126&N=700+115&autoview=sku
Title: 351 W install
Post by: Beau on December 01, 2008, 05:45:43 AM
Post by: Beau on December 01, 2008, 05:45:43 AM
Quote from: Chooglin;245520
the oil pan and headers that you posted,are the same ones that I used.
No way...351 uses a different oil pan than the 302 ;)
There's a few swap pans out there though for not a bad price, beats scouring the JY for the hard to find Crown Vic 351W pans...
Title: 351 W install
Post by: rancheronut on December 01, 2008, 11:10:37 AM
Post by: rancheronut on December 01, 2008, 11:10:37 AM
as for 351 to c-5.
just use a flex plate for your YEAR 351 and AOD tranny. work fine for all the swaps in 351 .i found the flex plate AOD and the c-3/4/5 have the same bolt pattern.
just use a flex plate for your YEAR 351 and AOD tranny. work fine for all the swaps in 351 .i found the flex plate AOD and the c-3/4/5 have the same bolt pattern.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: Chooglin on December 01, 2008, 04:04:13 PM
Post by: Chooglin on December 01, 2008, 04:04:13 PM
Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;245573
No way...351 uses a different oil pan than the 302 ;)
There's a few swap pans out there though for not a bad price, beats scouring the JY for the hard to find Crown Vic 351W pans...
yes I know,my fingers type faster than my brain thinks.
as soon as I seen the dipstick provisions in the pan,my fingers went nuts........sorry for the bad info.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on December 01, 2008, 04:04:52 PM
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on December 01, 2008, 04:04:52 PM
Yes, the Ford Motorsport oil pan M-6675-A58 is correct.
The BBK 1511 headers are correct also. Not sure, but I think those headers allow you to use any 5.0 Mustang H-Pipe, factory or aftermarket. Might check on that tho.
The BBK 1511 headers are correct also. Not sure, but I think those headers allow you to use any 5.0 Mustang H-Pipe, factory or aftermarket. Might check on that tho.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: rancheronut on December 01, 2008, 06:06:40 PM
Post by: rancheronut on December 01, 2008, 06:06:40 PM
i also have use ONE from 1994 351 F150 two wheel drive oil pan ,when i put a 1969 351 in my 86 stang.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 02, 2008, 01:01:54 PM
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 02, 2008, 01:01:54 PM
Thanks for the info guys, it helps
With this pan the old one was a 7 qt and this is a 5qt should that make a difference or would I have to change the oil pump?
Does it make a difference if I get a 164-tooth or a 157-tooth flexplate? I'm seeing some are 28oz and some are 50oz also. I'm just not sure which one I should use?
Thanks for all the info guys! This forum is awesome.
Quote from: 83-88T-Bird Guy;245644
Yes, the Ford Motorsport oil pan M-6675-A58 is correct.
With this pan the old one was a 7 qt and this is a 5qt should that make a difference or would I have to change the oil pump?
Quote from: rancheronut
as for 351 to c-5.
just use a flex plate for your YEAR 351 and AOD tranny. work fine for all the swaps in 351 .i found the flex plate AOD and the c-3/4/5 have the same bolt pattern.
Does it make a difference if I get a 164-tooth or a 157-tooth flexplate? I'm seeing some are 28oz and some are 50oz also. I'm just not sure which one I should use?
Thanks for all the info guys! This forum is awesome.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: 5.0 tbird on December 02, 2008, 03:23:59 PM
Post by: 5.0 tbird on December 02, 2008, 03:23:59 PM
A 351w will be 28 oz.
Yes it makes a difference you wanna make sure you have the right flexplate.
Yes it makes a difference you wanna make sure you have the right flexplate.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 03, 2008, 12:46:11 PM
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 03, 2008, 12:46:11 PM
Thanks for the info.
I just noticed something that I did and I hope it doesn't cause a problem, I took the flex plate off the engine 2 years ago and I didn't mark how it came off, Does it matter which way you install the new one?
I just noticed something that I did and I hope it doesn't cause a problem, I took the flex plate off the engine 2 years ago and I didn't mark how it came off, Does it matter which way you install the new one?
Title: 351 W install
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on December 03, 2008, 04:20:07 PM
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on December 03, 2008, 04:20:07 PM
Quote from: FordThunderbird;245804
Thanks for the info guys, it helps
With this pan the old one was a 7 qt and this is a 5qt should that make a difference or would I have to change the oil pump?
I am not sure, but the factory 80-96 F-series and Bronco oil pans were of the center sump design and I think they used the same oil pump as the 80-89 Crown Vic with the 351W.
You could check at an auto parts store to see if they used the same oil pump.
Me personally, I would install a new oil pump. They are not really that expensive considering how important they are.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: cougarman on December 03, 2008, 05:36:56 PM
Post by: cougarman on December 03, 2008, 05:36:56 PM
No problem, they only fit one way. :D
Quote from: FordThunderbird;245947
Thanks for the info.
I just noticed something that I did and I hope it doesn't cause a problem, I took the flex plate off the engine 2 years ago and I didn't mark how it came off, Does it matter which way you install the new one?
Title: 351 W install
Post by: rancheronut on December 04, 2008, 12:01:58 AM
Post by: rancheronut on December 04, 2008, 12:01:58 AM
Quote from: 83-88T-Bird Guy;245980
I am not sure, but the factory 80-96 F-series and Bronco oil pans were of the center sump design and I think they used the same oil pump as the 80-89 Crown Vic with the 351W.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rancheronut
as for 351 to c-5.
just use a flex plate for your YEAR 351 and AOD tranny. work fine for all the swaps in 351 .i found the flex plate AOD and the c-3/4/5 have the same bolt pattern.
.Does it make a difference if I get a 164-tooth or a 157-tooth flexplate? I'm seeing some are 28oz and some are 50oz also. I'm just not sure which one I should use?
"4x4 have the center sump design
not the 4x2"(2wheel drive).
in 1982 ford went to the 50ounces counterwieghts on there small block 5.0 and 5.8.
so all i'm saying is.
keep the flexplate thats made for your "year of engine block and crank".
if it a 351 out of a 85 bronco ,then it 50oz flex plate and it will go to your 1982 3.8 c-5 tranny.
the c-5 have more clutch's in the clutch packs. inside the tranny that why the factory calls
them c-5.
the AOD had the lockup torque converter not the c-5. the AOD came out in around 1981.
yes ,157 or 164 make a difference. because that what starter and tranny/block plate you will re-use. so just reuse the starter and tranny/block plate and flex plate from your bronco 5.8 should be ok.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 04, 2008, 12:19:13 PM
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 04, 2008, 12:19:13 PM
I just noticed something. The old flexplate looks like a 50oz? I counted the teeth its a 164 tooth. Could this engine really be a 302? The guy I bought the truck from said he replaced it and put another 351 in.
Pictures below
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/flexplate.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/flexplate.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine1.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine1.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine2.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine2.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine3.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine3.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine4.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine4.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine5.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine5.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine6.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine6.jpg")
Pics of bronco before engine was pulled
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic1.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic1.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic2.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic2.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic3.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic3.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic4.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic4.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic5.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic5.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic6.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic6.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic7.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic7.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic8.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic8.jpg")
Pictures below
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/flexplate.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/flexplate.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine1.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine1.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine2.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine2.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine3.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine3.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine4.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine4.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine5.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine5.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine6.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/engine6.jpg")
Pics of bronco before engine was pulled
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic1.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic1.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic2.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic2.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic3.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic3.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic4.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic4.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic5.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic5.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic6.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic6.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic7.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic7.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic8.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/oldpic8.jpg")
Title: 351 W install
Post by: rancheronut on December 04, 2008, 01:11:43 PM
Post by: rancheronut on December 04, 2008, 01:11:43 PM
these a casting number on your block on the passenger side down by the oil pan, where the starter was. that casting number will tell more about the block.
also messure the from cylinder had to cylinder. the 351 is wider than a 302.
also messure the from cylinder had to cylinder. the 351 is wider than a 302.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 04, 2008, 02:10:34 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 04, 2008, 02:10:34 PM
Got a pic of the area where the distributor mounts? If so I can tell if it's a 351 because it will have some *supports* cast into the block that a 302 does not have.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 04, 2008, 02:22:22 PM
Post by: FordThunderbird on December 04, 2008, 02:22:22 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;246140
Got a pic of the area where the distributor mounts? If so I can tell if it's a 351 because it will have some *supports* cast into the block that a 302 does not have.
Yes I do.
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/dis1.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/dis1.jpg")
http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/dis2.jpg (http://"http://nebraskathundercats.com/engineswap/dis2.jpg")
Title: 351 W install
Post by: cougarman on December 04, 2008, 11:07:54 PM
Post by: cougarman on December 04, 2008, 11:07:54 PM
On a 351, you will also be able to get to both waterneck bolts easier, because of the taller block. On a 302, one bolt is almost behind the timing cover.:D
Title: 351 W install
Post by: HAVI on December 04, 2008, 11:44:01 PM
Post by: HAVI on December 04, 2008, 11:44:01 PM
Quote from: rancheronut;246071
"4x4 have the center sump design
not the 4x2"(2wheel drive).
in 1982 ford went to the 50ounces counterwieghts on there small block 5.0 and 5.8.
so all i'm saying is.
keep the flexplate thats made for your "year of engine block and crank".
if it a 351 out of a 85 bronco ,then it 50oz flex plate and it will go to your 1982 3.8 c-5 tranny.
the c-5 have more clutch's in the clutch packs. inside the tranny that why the factory calls
them c-5.
the AOD had the lockup torque converter not the c-5. the AOD came out in around 1981.
yes ,157 or 164 make a difference. because that what starter and tranny/block plate you will re-use. so just reuse the starter and tranny/block plate and flex plate from your bronco 5.8 should be ok.
351W has a 28.2 oz imbalance. Not a 50 oz. 302's shared the same 28.2 oz before 1981 or so.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: 5.0 tbird on December 05, 2008, 12:07:01 AM
Post by: 5.0 tbird on December 05, 2008, 12:07:01 AM
+1 The 351 didn't change like the 302 did.
Title: 351 W install
Post by: Chooglin on December 05, 2008, 05:28:19 PM
Post by: Chooglin on December 05, 2008, 05:28:19 PM
not to hijack this,but I need a few answers.as I mentioned in my post,I used the 164 tooth flexplate from the 1983 3.8/c5.is my flexplate a 28.0 oz or a 50.0 oz?
also,shouldnt the harmonic balancer match the flexplate, as far as the oz's?
the only reason I used the FP from the 3.8 was to save on money and I figured if it doesnt work out,then I would spend the money needed to correct it.
The car drives just as it did when it had the 3.8 in it,other than the extra HP.
can someone clear this up for me?
also,shouldnt the harmonic balancer match the flexplate, as far as the oz's?
the only reason I used the FP from the 3.8 was to save on money and I figured if it doesnt work out,then I would spend the money needed to correct it.
The car drives just as it did when it had the 3.8 in it,other than the extra HP.
can someone clear this up for me?
Title: 351 W install
Post by: spearfish on December 10, 2008, 09:27:48 PM
Post by: spearfish on December 10, 2008, 09:27:48 PM
I just used a ford racing pan. I also enclosed a pic of my windsor going to be fitted in the next two weeks then come back out for paint.
[/ATTACH]
Title: 351 W install
Post by: HAVI on December 10, 2008, 11:02:03 PM
Post by: HAVI on December 10, 2008, 11:02:03 PM
interesting engine stand. Are there several bell pattern bolt holes on the plate? Looks to be an earlier model Tbird, too.
Props for the Tonka truck!
Props for the Tonka truck!
Title: 351 W install
Post by: spearfish on December 11, 2008, 03:58:53 PM
Post by: spearfish on December 11, 2008, 03:58:53 PM
Motor going into an 85 engine stand is home made only 1 bolt pattern in it so far.