Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

So, I'm driving to work yesterday like I do most days. I've gone about 10 miles from home and everything is fine. Then without any warning, the engine just dies on me! I'm doing a about 40mph in moderate traffic and then it just dies. I hear the warning tone from the Electronic Cluster go off and the see the RPM's are at zero. Of course the steering practically froze up on me as did the brakes. I was in the far right lane and coasted a little bit before coming to a stop right in front of a circle k. Unfortunately for me the road was uphill and when I tried to push the car into the Circle K, it was  near impossible. Without help, I was screwed.

I got back in the car and put it in park, and tried to restart it. After a few cranks, It came back on. I gunned it into the circle K parking lot. As soon as I got into the parking lot the engine died again, and I coasted into a parking space. I sat for about a minute, and tried to restart it. Sure enough, it turned right on. So, I decided to take a chance and try to make it to work.

I left the circle k and headed back onto the main boulevard. I got about 100 yards before the engine died yet again. I coasted into another parking lot.

Once again, I was able to restart it and headed out. (I shouldn't have.)

This time I made it much further. About 5 miles. However, as I pulled up to a red light, the engine died once again. This time it wouldn't restart. I kept cranking it, but to no avail. After 5 minutes of waiting in the middle of the street, and cranking, the engine turned on. I floored it to make it across the intersection but as soon as I did, the engine died again, and I coasted into an apartment complex and parked the car there. Not wanted to be late for work, I locked up the car, and walked the remaining 2 miles. No fun at all, being in rather bad area of town.

Anyway, I get my dad to pick me up after work and we head over the the apartment complex to get the car. Luckily it was still there. The car fired right and and strangely enough, it made it all the way back home, a nearly 20 mile drive.


This morning I immediately pulled the fuel pump out and replaced it with a new one. Also changed the fuel filter. So far, it hasn't died on me, although it continues to have that  idling problem (the engine keeps fluctuating up and down between 6 and 800 rpms while sitting). What's bugging me is that the car didn't seem to sputter when it died. I was just driving along and the engine just died. I mean, I figured if the pump did cut off, there would still be enough fuel in the lines so it would sputter a little bit before dying. But it didn't. So now, a week and a half before I'm supposed to be trading this car for a turbo coupe, this nasty problem comes up.

Now, I'm not going to tow the car up to Phoenix and then just drive around the corner to his house and claim everything is fine, that wouldn't be right. He'd probably come hunting for me after discovering this disturbing problem.

Any idea what might cause this. Keep in mind I changed the pump and filter this morning, and so far, it hasn't died.

Also, I figure the inevitable question of "did you check your codes" will come up, so how can I check them using a regular volt meter?

http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=13

Immediate cutout screams ignition problem, not fuel. I'd suggest troubleshooting the ignition system. The ol' TFI is a likely culprit.

Problem sound electrical. Reminds me of my '73 Charger, kept blowing voltage regulators. When it would go out the car would die, it would start right back up but as soon as you gave it any gas at all it would die again.

I'm not too sure about that.
When the fuel pump in my '88 XR7 decided to poop itself, the car just quit running at 40 mph. No sputtering of any kind.
It would appear that the fuel injectors need pressure; any drop will kill the engine.

You should be able to check the codes with a basic 12v light bulb or LED if nothing else, but a voltmeter will also work.
Don't you have a CEL in your cluster? I think there's a way to jump two terminals in the code harness and make the CEL flash the codes.

I know when they check my codes at auto zone, I see the check engine light come on and blink. How do I do this?

Also, Jeremy, I changed the TFI module back in late july. I doubt it would go bad that quickly.

EDIT:(Nevermind about checking codes, I just read the link in Jeremy's post)

TFI module
Ignition switch

First things that came to my mind...

You cannot use a digital volt meter to pull codes.. It cannot go from 0 to a reading and back to 0 fast enough.  buttstuffog all the way.

And zach is correct.  If your check engine light works then all you have to do is connect the two pins to put the car into self test mode then get in the driver seat, turn the key and count the flashes on the check engine light.  Easy as pie.

I changed the TFI module back in July, so I doubt it's gone bad between now and then.

The codes I pulled could have been either (11) SystemPass or (22) Map Sensor out of Range. The intervals between blinks didn't exactly seem to be 2 seconds or 1/2 second, and it was rather confusing, but I did record either a 22 or 11.

If it's 11, I don't know what to do now. If it's 22 "map sensor out of range", I don't know what to do with that either.

How many total blinks were there?

The KOEO codes will repeat twice...then pause for 6 or so seconds...give the KOEO/CM separator blink...then go through your CM codes.

The KOER codes also repeat twice.

I'm not sure if you did a KOER or a KOEO.
Standard procedure is to do a KOEO, then a KOER.

I'm guessing you did a KOER, since you didn't mention the separator pulse or CM codes.  Thus, if you had 4 total blinks, you got a 11-11. A 22 would have a total of 8 blinks.

Which is it?

No, I had more than 4 blinks. 8 blinks sounds about right.

I agree with Eric  TFI or ignition switch, but you do need to pull the codes.  You said you changed the TFI, but if it was  a 25 buck autozone special it could explain alot even some of your other odd issues.

A 22 code points to needing a new MAP sensor (as was alluded to earlier in another thread).

I don't think it is the cause of your 'current' problem though.

It was a 40 dollar special. I suppose if it's under warranty, I should change it. If that's not it though....

Some ignition system troubleshooting...
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.html

Autohole, can check your TFI and your map sensor and tell you if they need replaced.

Really? I knew they checked codes...but not those.

Check your vacum lines. If there is a hole on the one to the map sensor then it will not work right.

Oh god, John and I know way too much about what Autohole can test.

When you say "Autohole", I take it you mean Autozone right? If so, what would I say to them? "I'm going to need you to go ahead and Check my TFI module. So, if you could get working on that as soon as possible...that would be great."

I had something similar happen with my Sport, and it turned out to be the PIP in the distributor.

I second the idea of the TFI. The TFI of my car just died like 2 years ago. The symptoms are almost the same you have described. Try first what Eric said.

when mine did that exact same thing, i just replaced the distributor (after checking the tfi and wtf ever i tried. i can't remember). forget trying to change out that  inside the distributor. total PITA. well, in a thunderstorm it is anyways. prolly still a PITA anyways.

+1 on the ignition switch

I had a similar problem with my car when i was on my way to work. It turned out it was my ignition switch FELL APART. I pulled the cover off the steering column to check the wiring it fell out i had to drive around holding the thing together so i could get a new switch.  It was very touchy with the key too if the key turned back just a tiny bit too much it would shut off. So thats the first thing i would check.

Ok guys. It's panic time for me. It's now just 6 days before I'm supposed to go up to phoenix and trade my car for a Turbo Coupe, but once again, it's experiencing problems. (I swear it knows I'm trying to get rid of it and is punishing me!)

I changed the Fuel Pump two days ago. The Fuel Filter at the same time. The pressure regulator about a month ago. Plugs shortly after that. TFI module on Wednesday. I thought I did everything I could, yet....

Today, I'm driving to work. Everything is seemingly fine for the first....12 miles. Then a red light. Traffic backs up, and I come to a stop. The engine is idling at 600rpm, but is a little rough. It fluctuates down a little, and then, blah! It dies on me!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it. It restarted right away and move forward a couple feet and it dies again. I restarted it successfully, and pulled into the right lane, hazards on and all. I keep it going long enough to get onto a side street and floor it to work. When I have it at speed, it doesn't die. When I came to a light, I put it in park, and revved the engine to keep it from dying again. Luckily I made it to work.

But now I'm left with the sinking feeling that there is still something wrong with the car and I can't find it. I mean, what left is there to change?????

My plan right now is to start using 91 octane gas from here on out, and perhaps dump some octane boost and Fuel Injector Cleaner in it, and hope for the best. I'll have to take the freeway to work everyday to keep it from stalling out I guess.  it! 1 freaking week from getting rid of this thing, and it starts acting up again!

Please help guys. I'm at my wits end. I have to work most days this week, so working on the car will be limited to Tuesday, my only other day off expect for Friday, which is when the trade is supposed to go down.

Suggestions anyone!?

bump the timing.. it sounds like its idling too low... my LX did that when I first got it.. it absolutly hated reverse...

I do feel like it's always been idling too low for some reason. I'll do anything to fix it. I mean, hell I'm going to be giving up an extra 20 cents to put in high octane gas from here to friday. (Someone told me that would help?)

Ok, How do I bump the timing? Please tell me. [SIZE="5"]FOR GOD'S SAKE, PLEASE TELL ME!!!!![/SIZE]

you loosen the distributor hold down.. its a 1/2 inch spen 15et.. that and a long extention... loosen it a little bit and nudge the distributor clockwise... not much.. just a little bit.

undo the bolt that holds down the thick hold-down clip thing-chunk-o-metal and rotate your distributor. (not sure which way sorry but thats how to change it)
 
any possibility that your gas station is giving you shiznitty gas? friend's dad's 99 expedition wouldnt idle when he got some gas that was probably cut with a lot of water. had to rev it sitting at the light or it would shut off. i think dry-gas (isopropol gas line antifreeze) fixed it.
 
you could try dumping a bunch of that in. or injector cleaner, other additives.

how is the QUALITY of the idle. still fluctuating? or smooth, and just too low? thats why no one has suggested adjusting the idle up until this point im sure.
 
but IF the idle is SMOOTH then maybe you could just adjust it. theres a way you have to do it with the idle stop screw so that the computer and IAC learn the new idle then you set the screw back to closed or something and the IAC will open more and keep the right idle.
 
search this place, specifically engine tech, if not google it or best bet search www.corral.net (http://"http://www.corral.net") forums in the "5.0/5.8 engine tech windsor engine forum" i believe its been discussed before there
 
you're in my prayers, man!!! what a py situation. i really hope the thing behaves so you can get that TC.
 
and if a problem comes up for him within a week after he bought it from you even, you're selling it "AS IS" so one its theirs, its THEIRS, they cant hold you responsible.
 
as long as it works while he tests it and maybe like a couple days afterward :giggle:
 
yeah yeah thats not totally honest but like if soon after he buys it the TPS or a sensor or something goes thats not your responsibility. again "AS IS"
 
 
 
 
GOOD LUCK MAN!!!!

Ok, I'll bump the timing. I also plan on using 91 octane gas from now until Friday as well. If I can, I'll pick up some Fuel Injector cleaner and some other additives that I think might help. I've just got the keep the car in good running order for 1 more week. If I can doctor it up enough so it won't stall out on me, I'll be golden. If not....suicide.

EDIT:(The Idle is smooth sometimes, and other times, it fluctuates up and down. When the idle is rough, you can feel it. I can feel it anyway. The whole car just ever so slightly shakes. It's un-nerving as usually I know what's going to happen at that point.)

So, is bumping up the idle as simple as turning the Distributor clockwise slightly? Or is there more involved???

well that bumps the TIMING. i personally dont know enough to know whether or not that will increase the idle. but see if it smooths it out. advancing the timing will increase power a little, and it may help. if you indeed have checked everything else its probably more or less a last resort. i have followed your threads and cannot imagine the stress you must be under, and his suggestions seems like a last resort. just more options that are easy to try and who knows, they might help.
 
as another piece of input just for the hell of it--occassionally my car will also hunt for idle. just every once in awhile im backing out of my driveway (steep so i always put it i Neutral) so the engine is on its own. and sometimes it has dipped down to like 4 or 2 hundred rpm and the car does shake a little, then it says "oh shiznit im to slow" and then compensates then surges to like 1200 then settles in at 1000 to 800 or so and is fine. just letting you know that my car does shake a little too when its hunting for idle. just in case you get it running good but it has to hunt a little and he wonders why its shaking. nothing out of balance, thats just what it does.
 
and yes Autohole = Autozone. and i believe they pull codes for free if thats still an issue? or maybe thats advance auto. its one of em.
 
and move the distributor LITTLE bits at a time, so like maybe 1/16 of an inch in arc length. do you know what i mean? its a circle so you cant say move it 1/16 of an inch cuz it doesnt go in a straight line but dont move it a lot. just a little, tighten it down, fire it up and listen for pinging. if it pings you have to up the octane until it doesnt. hell advance it as much as the highest octane fuel at the station permits if the idle gets better. explain to the guy he'll have to put high test in cuz of the timing ("you wanted more power") and if he doesnt want to, just retard the timing (if he knows how to do that)

take the iac off and clean it good. there is also an idle stop screw by the TB. its realy not the right way to fix the idle but it may help. bumping the timing will be fine but dont go so far as too let it "ping". dont realy know if that will help with your issue. if you advance the timing maybe try to stay away from running regular gas. um...oh yeah, forget that shiznitbox turbocoupe ;)
 
 
ps...is the heat or ac or whatever running when it stalls out or is all that stuff off.....

That's the thing. I don't want to pour any more money into a car that I'm getting rid of in 1 week. Not only that, I don't know what I could possibly need to get? A new EGR? A new Ignition Switch?

I mean, it's not electrical, it's fuel/engine related. I'm just really worried right now as I don't want to get up to phoenix and have the car die out right in front of this guy's house. Or have him want to test drive my car and then it dies out on him. All these horror scenarios running through my head. Plus there's the matter of getting to work on time, or just getting there in general for the next week.

Ok, now I'm confused. There's two separate things controlling all around timing and idle? Please someone help me out here. What do I need to do to slightly bump up the idle? Or will moving the distributor clockwise just a little bit help?

(I took off the "IAC" last week and the engine lost rpms. But this is what's supposed to happen, no? So I didn't think I needed to clean it. It looked pretty clean to me? I was running the A/C on Low most of the way to work before it died out. I won't be doing that from now on...)

If your car ran fine all this time and all of a sudden it is acting up... Do not touch the distributor.  And for gods sake never move it without a timing light.

Now some troubleshooting.  When your car dies, at that very moment does the CEL come on and stay on?  Riddle me this.

Yes. It does...until I restart it.

EEC power issues ruled out.

Have you actualy set the TPS the proper way?  My 88 would stall at stop lights when its TPS and throttle stop position where out of whack, but it didn't do it every time.  Some times it would idle at like 300rpm but my car is also a 5 speed and could actualy idle that low without stalling sometimes.

Our 91 ford f150 (same ignition switch) will stall driving down the road on rare occasions.  When it does you simply nudge the key and it roars back to life.

Another idea, a fuel pump relay that is very week or an inertia switch on its way out.

If you could somehow drive the car with a fuel pressure gauge poking out from under the hood by the windshield you could then rule out a fuel issue.

I thought I set the TPS the right way. But, I know it was doing the bad idle thing before I adjusted it.

How would I check for a bad fuel pump relay? I just changed the pump 2 days ago!


1 week. I just need to have it run good for one week. Actually, as long as it doesn't have problems friday, I should be good. I'm going to use the better octane gas, and add some additives, but other than that? I don't want to pour any more money into this car that I'm getting rid of in a week. Just so long as I avoid intersections as much as possible.

Bed time guys, I'll read replies in the morning. I've got to work tomorrow. Goodnight everyone!

20 psi is when the injectors loose there pulse.

Ok, now I'm really freaked. I changed the Cap and Rotor thinking that might be it....wrong.

It happened again this morning. I drive about 10 minutes to Wendy's and sit in the drive through. After about 3 minutes sitting at the window I noticed the RPM's start fluctuating and the engine starts sounding choked. The engine sputters a few times, and I put it in park. Again it sputters and then dies. It restarts back up, and as I leave the parking lot, it starts sputtering again. I had to floor it just to keep it from dying out. I made it home, but , I don't know what to do.


I haven't changed my EGR yet, nor the Map Sensor. Both are rather expensive. How can I check the EGR? Would it cause the car to die out at idle like that?

I just tested the EGR valve. It held it's vacuum. I even ran the car and blew into the EGR tube which did force it open and the car died. Now what? Is there some electronic component that could be telling the EGR to stay open while at idle that's bad?

I checked the Map Sensor, and it does have good solid vacuum. The engine did die when I pulled the line off.

Since I don't have the tools to do it, can Autozone check the Map Sensor? I've narrowed the possible problem items to this. Would a check engine code diagnose a bad Map Sensor?

i think just the vacuum connection moves the valve. dont really know what part the EVP (?) sensor attached to the valve does but its another component related to it so who knows?
 
but yes if too much exhaust is being dumped in thats a problem. imagine standing there trying to breathe too much of your own fart. youd probably stumble, sputter, and drop to the ground too.

:giggle:

Have you looked at the actual throttle body itself?  I know on my T/A there's a little hole in the middle of the blade for air to come in for idle.  Maybe yours is clogged?  Get some Sea Foam Deep Creep and spray down your TB and intake.  It can't hurt.

yeah these have a 1/8" hole on the left half of the throttle plate. wouldnt it not matter though because the IAC controls the airflow at idle and would compensate? if its indeed clogged with something you can clean it out by sticking a pencil through it :hick:
 
but seafoam isnt a bad idea either!
 
 
DMC24guy---
 
if you saw the thread in engine tech ive been doing my HO conversion. i have the old MAP sensor and entire EGR assembly cuz i pulled off the upper intake with everything attached. ive been having problems getting it to start as you'll read, so i think tonight im going to put the old MAP sensor back in (shouldnt be the problem but i want to verify i absolutely dont need it) and then i could send em to you if you want to try them. just pay me for shipping, say like $6 i dont think USPS should be more than that
 
my car ran GREAT with these, as the car was untouched up until i began the conversion.

*Edit* I just read the previous page.

I have no clue whats going on. Let us know if you ever find out...

Can and will Autozone test the Map Sensor? Also, this "clogging" of the Throttle Body....is it really as simple as sticking a pencil through some hole on passenger side of the upper intake?

i meant on the thottle plate. so you take off your air hose from the filter box to the throttle body and look at the gold-colored throttle plate. on the left half of it youll see a little 1/8 inch hole in the plate. theyre suggesting that it might be clogged, and a tiny bit of air does go through it. it wouldnt hurt to look at it, and you can poke a pencil point through it if you dont have any small screwdrivers (i hav no idea what kind of toolset you have available to you)
 
its unlikely that theres something blocking the hole but why not check it.
 
found this searching the corral forum--
 
"Hunting surging idle is usually caused by one of two things (or both). Too much timing and lean conditions. Try addressing them individually. First remove 6 to 8 degrees from your base timing and see if it helps. Second, try bumping your fuel pressure up a fair amount (5 to 10 psi) and see if it helps. If so, then you've got some direction, but ultimately to really fix either one of these and still preserve performance & driveability you're going to need a custom tune with your mods."
 
well we cant adjust our fuel pressure right? the regulator does that (or can we someone please correct me)
 
but ive read some other threads there and they say the same thing, "use the search feature" "its been discussed--ussually too much timing or too lean...."

i feel like this thread is growing more and more into a shotgun troubleshooting syle which i hate.  I know you have been trying but also you have to understand that this is the second thread on the same problem and as far as i can see, there have been questions / suggestions that have not been looked at. Hope i dont sound sarcastic, just trying to help.

taking this from the top,,,,,,, these are the parts you have chenged?

Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pressure Regulator
new valve positioning senor [COLOR="Red"](EVP SENSOR)[/COLOR]
Adjusted TPS
New TFI Module
New Rotor

[COLOR="red"]symtom-[/COLOR]
car starts up and idles fine for about three minutes then it has an unstable idle from 600 to 800 rpm.  While in drive and brake applied at a light, it soemtimes feels like it wants to die?????
you still smell gas?

[COLOR="red"]the egr-[/COLOR]
you said you blew into the egr line,, i said to put suction on it.  you had the egr checked and it held vac presure (SUCTION).  The egr has a rubber diaphram that moves in and out because of the engine vac applied to it. The evp sensor has a metal rod that sticks out and touches the center of the diaphram, the rod on the evp moves when the diaphram moves.  The evp is a variable resistor and changes a voltage, simple ast hat .

[COLOR="Red"]who did the fuel pump change?[/COLOR]


[COLOR="red"]Taking it from the top[/COLOR],,pls help us help you and reply to these steps
-check your fuel presure while under a load
-check for """BLUE""" spark at any plug wire
-check you codes again since you replaced the EVP.  You can use any 12dc buzzer to transmit codes while you listen and write them.  Refering to "about 8" blinks does not cut it,, its either 8  or not 8.
-Check each vac line even if you do have to remove the grommet, put suction on each one.
-check the alternator output for dc volts, then check for any AC (partially fried regulator)
-do the tfi check , if your stator is bad down in the dizzy, you can find it happening there. its a lot easier to swap out the dizzy with a known good one for this check since you have not replaced the stator yet.
-remove the belt after the car has warmed up and spin the smog pump pully.  If its hard to turn, then you just found your problem cause its locking up and loading the engine down.
-keep on the lookout for a code refering to a rich or lean injector when pulling codes.
-check cylinder compression on each cylinder
-inspect each spark plug and determine if one or more plugs look like they are firing different than the others.
-at night,start the car, go out to the car with a spray bottle of water.  spray water along the engine plug wires, coil , engine wireing ect and check for arching.
-start the car and use a can of carb cleaner along all vac lines , and elsewhere and listen for engine rpm changes.  if you hear a change when spraying along the lines,, you just found a break.
-your gonna have to swap in another map,, just for the heck of it although i do agree with jermemy, i dont think thats the problem.  In all honesty, i have never ever had one go bad ever.


keep it simple,,, check your spark, fuel and voltage ,, then reply.  We do know one thing,, it happens after warmup.

if you or anyone else thinks this sounds like a lot of things to do,, just remember, these are the things you would expect out of a mechanic so realize that when you complain for how much mechanic work costs.

yeah, autozone checks map sensors.  they put a vaccum gauge on it and then check it via ohms...

Hey jcassity,That was one good troubelshoot post.I'm savin it.
Should make that a sticky.

No, I don't smell gas anymore. Apparently while throwing parts at this problem, I fixed that problem. The list of changed parts is accurate. The symptoms are as well. It drives good for about 15 minutes, but after that point is usually when the problems come up. It doesn't always die out, but when it does, that's usually when it occurs. And yes, it's never when I'm driving, its when sitting at a stop light with the brakes applied.

Ok guys, the I just pulled the following Codes, please interpret:

14, 18 and 34.

14 is PIP failure.

34 is insufficient EGR flow.

I dont remember 18.

So what does this mean? I need a new Distributor and EGR valve?

http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=14
 
18 SPOUT circuit open or spark angle word failure.
                          or.........
    IDM circuit failure or SPOUT circuit grounded.
 
first one is for KOER Key On Engine Running
 
second is the Continues Memory, the second sequence (after the long pause) when you do codes with the Key On Engine Off

Gee, looks like a possible TFI... or yes, a new distributor if the Hall Effect (PIP) is bad.

You claim the TFI is new.  How was it installed?  Enough heat sink compound?

It's also possible the TFI connector is bad (had to replace a couple myself).  While it's running CAREFULLY reach in and wiggle the connector at the TFI on the dist.  Does the car hesitate or stall?

Just checked the connector, it appears clean. Wiggled it, and nothing happened.

Guys, it's that time when the ship is about to go under, and I must deliver this message: Thanks for all the help. You've done you're best, but you can do no more.

I've given up the fight men. I wrote the guy I'm trading the car with, and explained everything that's been going on and what I've changed. Hopefully he'll still trade with me, but if not, I know I've done right thing. Looking at it now, I know If I were buying a car (Especially If I planned on selling it), knowing what the problem is and seeing all that I've changed, I would probably still buy the car figuring I could fix the problem myself. I'm not too worried right now. The worst that could happen is he says No deal. If that's the case...oh well.

Again, thanks for the valiant effort to help me, I do appreciate it. Now, I just wait for that reply.

either way,, seems to be a classic treatment of a stator going bad in the dizzy.  No big deal though.

Dude, If I were you I'd run out and see if I could pick up a distributor, maybe borrow one or something, or get a cheap oe replacement.  It really sounds like that may be your issue.

Well, the guy agreed to take the car for an extra $500, so i'm going to take out a loan on my tax money, and go for it. I think it's fair.

does anyone know this to be true?
if so,, how is it checking for ohms?

when i first got my bird, i had to babysit the throttle otherwise it'd stall.  I installed a new TPS and EGRV and adjusted the idle.  i had the same loaping idle as you describe and when i idled it up a bit the surge went away.  i know this didnt fix anything but it stopped the car from loaping and surging.

Well, It's no longer an issue for me. I'm getting rid of the car on Friday and will have a new Black Turbo Coupe to toy around with.

Well, I'm excitedly waiting for tomorrow to come. After two grueling weeks, the big day has finally arrived. Myself, and a couple of chums will be heading up to phoenix in the morning to do the Trade for the Turbo Coupe.

I've been on pins and needles the past couple days trying to fix the problems plaguing my current LX, but I broke down and finally wrote the guy I'm trading with and explained everything. He didn't seem to care about the dying out problem, and since I saved his email, I'm in the clear. All I have to do now is get up to Phoenix safely.

I'll be bringing Trans Fluid, Oil, Coolant, Brake Fluid, and some Jumper Cables just to be safe. Considering the location of the car, I really should be bringing my Kevlar vest too, but that might look too suspicious.

At this point in time, I just have to make it to work and back safely and I'll be in the homestretch. I have a nice 4-10pm 6 hour shift today, so It should go by rather quickly. I was going to wash and vacuum the car tomorrow morning before leaving, but since there is rain in the (highly accurate) forecast, I might just clean out the interior.

I have my digital camera with me, so as soon as I get home (assuming I do) I'll be able to post some detailed pictures of the car.  I could tell when I test drove it that after a good washing and wax, it's going to shine up really good.

Everyone wish me luck and safe travel. And most importantly, I get out of the Ghetto alive!

Vaya Con Dios amigos!

(To avoid making the same mistake I did with the silver Turbo I owned, I plan on filming myself explaining why I need to hang onto this car, and how no matter what, I shouldn't sell it. That way if I ever get the selling urge again, I'll have something to convince me otherwise.)

alright have fun, hope you're happy with what you're getting! sounds like you lucked out with this seller.

I won't be able to sleep tonight. It's like I'm a little kid on Christmas eve. I'm going to be so distracted at work today. My mind will be preoccupied with the thoughts of driving to Phoenix tomorrow and how the car will be.

Hopefully around this time tomorrow I'll be sitting at In-N-Out Burger enjoying a Double-Double while starring at my new car.

So where's pictures?

Sorry guys. I experienced some...problems...coming home and pictures won't come for a few days. 

I made it up to Phoenix just fine. The LX kept on wanting to die at all the stops but it did make it. It was raining the whole way there so I didn't bother washing the thing before leaving.

The trade went flawlessly. Nice and quick. Like ripping off a band-aid. I gave him the cash, title, and he gave me the title for the turbo and the keys and that was it.

I stopped at the nearest gas station and checked the vital fluids. Needed some oil, added it. Trans fluid was good, and it shifted great. Brake fluid a little low and added some. Although I am having a little...problem? When I press the brake pedal I hear a faint buzz, and see the Anti-Lock brake light come on, and sometimes both the (Brake!) and Anti-Lock light. It doesn't happen all the time, but a lot of times. The brakes feel snug and I had no stopping problems (Which would later turn out to save my life...) so I don't know why it's doing that....fuse? Bad relay?

Anyway, we left Phoenix (a couple chums following me) and everything seemed ok. Other than the excessive noise due to a lack of ler, the car ran great. I tested the A/C again and It was Ice Cold and blew very strong, much better than my old Silver Turbo. I tried the Heater and as soon as I turned it on, a bunch of dust came out of the vents into my face. I turned it off when it did that, and tried the heater again. Again more dust. I turned it off and noticed something floating out of the vents. I panicked and thought it was smoke (Flashbacks to the Burning Alternator came into my mind) and pulled over. I popped the hood and nothing was ablaze, which is always good. I got back on the road and turned the Heater on again, this time no dust. It came out nice and warm, so I guess the vents were just dirty.

At that point the trip back to Tucson was nice. Everything was going good....until we were about 10 miles outside the city limits.

I'm doing about 65 and then....BOOM!

Right Rear Tire Blew out. I later find out I ran over something large which punctured the tire. It had a dime side hole in it.

Anyway, it's rush hour, and I'm on the side of the road putting on the spare. It had one in the trunk, which was a blessing in itself. I didn't even check to see if it had one before leaving phoenix. I got it on fine, and after making it back to town and spending $40 on a new Tire, the car was once again in good condition.

I got home about 30 minutes ago, and am dead tired. I need to smog the car tomorrow and then get it registered. Already insured it.

Need to Brasso up the Headlights and install a radio, but other than that, it's a great car.
 

More details to come later.

Real happy for you.I hope the car treats you well.

Hey, glad to hear that he didn't mind about the problems with the LX.  Hope you enjoy the new TC.  Sorry to hear you already had a tire blow.

well that kind of scares me a little too. and if the ABS is going to start to mess up on you then that could be why.


glad you are happy with the car and im happy for you but i just dont know.

come on man pics pics pics :D

Ok Guys, here are some recently taken photos of the car. Notice the Snow in the background? Tucson, Arizona...and it snowed. A surreal scene indeed.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2833.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2843.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2839.jpg)

Ok, now most importantly. The car is too loud. For whatever reason there is only a foot long pipe coming out of the catalytic converter and a small downturn and that's it. Besides the obvious ler solution, does anyone know of a place that carries any sort of exhaust silencers I can stick into the pipe for temporary purposes? The noise is offensively loud, and is causing me to go deaf. I know silencers exist, but where I can get them, I don't know. Ideas anyone? Any home made solutions?
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2842.jpg)

Sure, take it down to the ler shop and have them put an exhaust system back on it.

You don't really have any alternatives, unless you actually LIKE exhaust gases swirling into the passenger compartment.

Car looks good, dude.  I've got a full set of 16" tires I would give you, if you want to drive all the way to Fort Worth. :D

Do yourself a favor, buy a 3" downpipe & exhaust system, a decent straight through ler, and just dump it in front of the axle.

The best thing you're gonna be able to fit on it there is a glasspack which will really do very little silencing at all.

Very cool. Looks nice. :D

Lookin  Good but We need more more more more pics. LOL

Yeah, all except for the dump in front of the axle. Get a tail pipe or two

The '84 TC I had for about 6 months had a bit less exhaust than that and it wasn't too loud.  Just sounded like a 4-banger with no ler and a little bit of "whoosh".  Ahhh, cripes, I miss the TARBO POWAR!

Well, I suggested a dump because that would be a quick & dirty fix and would at least get the car tolerable.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I ran my TC with no lers the whole time I owned it, well one ler actually. I just wont do that anymore and only suggest people do the same coming from someone who's had it both ways on multiple cars. I will only run full exhaust anymore.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I ran my TC with no lers the whole time I owned it. Well one ler actually, it had the stock Y-piple with a ler on one side and nothing on the other. I just wont do that anymore and only suggest people do the same coming from someone who's had it both ways on multiple cars. I will only run full exhaust anymore.

It's just too darn loud. I think I'm going to damage my ear drums If I'm not careful. I swear, how in the hell do those Rice-Burner guys do it!?

 And I can't get anyone to weld the ler in for less than $50. Which would put the hurt on me financially speaking. I could invest in a CD player would sort of distract me from the noise a bit. But the cheapest one of those is also $50.

looks good man  grab an exhaust from Stinger and slap it on but avoid the flowmasters if your wanting it to be somewhat quiet :evilgrin:

cheapest way is to go get 2'' emt electrical conduit (comes in 10' lengths) and shove it in the pipe you have (adapt it) and fit a cheapy ler in there even it its a used ler for free.  If you see any electrical contractors or happen to ask the store if there are s cutoffs of conduit, you might get that for free as well.

you can bend the conduit by creative means, but emt is much more durable than its lesser quality sister aftemarket exhaust pipe.

Ever see emt conduit rust all that bad?  i havent and ive see it exposed to much industrial heat.

it has to be EMT,,,not "rigid", not "IMC", not anything else but emt or you wont be able to bend it without paying someone.

another thought is check with your parts store for a section of exhaust that is corigated.  Pep boys carried this product a long time ago.  Its shaped like the part of a straw that bends at the end.  Its not that wrapped spiral flex exhaust that most people are use to seeing.  its shaped exactly like the design of a straw you bend,,corrigated.  I think that stuff was priced pretty decent and did not require specail tools other than brute force and a dead blow to shape in. 

even cheaper would be,,,,,,,, save your next can  of pork and beans container.,,,adapt the open end to the exhaust you have, pop a couple slots in the other end and vuala,, ler!!!!!!!!!

i cant believe i just suggested that,,lol

hey,, you asked for cheap and easy, im from west virginia and we know how to get by.


see ,,, your just not thinking very well right now.  I find it very ironic your solution to the exhaust pipe is just a few inches away from the problem......................

Dont waste your money on buying cheap stuff IMHO. If you are honestly going to keep the car for any length of time, invest in a decent exhaust system. Get a stinger single 3" downpipe to tailpipe (stinger is not expensive, but gives your money worth with your products. You cant go wrong). Dynomax hiflow cats are in summit/jegs for like $50, and a bullet ler is like $35. It is well worth the money. Endure it till you have the money to do it right. And on a side note, your hearing will be fine. Mine on my 88 goes to about the pass side mirror on the door (3" IHI SS downpipe), and I hear just fine. I have tailpipes and all for it, it will go on next spring. I just ran it like that until i had all the pieces i wanted to build it with. I have a little over $500 in mine, but could have gone allot cheaper with it had I not INSISTED on going with everything being done in stainless steel. You will also be a little cheaper if you do a single instead of the y-pipe with dual tailpipes if money is an issue... If you honestly need to quiet it down until you get the suggest system, auto parts stores sell cheap cherrybomb or glasspack lers for under $30. Get some cheap clamps and adapters to put it on. You would easily have a ler and clamps for under $40 to hold you until you do it right. The said lers will really quiet it down allot! I know, I ran them on the 83 until I did the current exhaust system.
  Looks pretty nice otherwise. Looks just like my 88TC that I bought. I had it painted, and put new (about a year old) headlights in it, and it is a sweet looking ride if I do say so myself. Get some more pics :headbang:

Frank M.

Head to the parts store. I know you can get a ler for that thing cheap. Hell here you can get a turbo ler and an adapter for $20 then get a clamp an you are set.

I ran my car with dumps on my hooker maxflows for awhile and it wasn't very loud, sounded decent too.

I personally would not recommend a bullet with a dump especially if you delete the cat. I went that route, never again. Sounded like total ass and way too loud.

Here is a cheap solution... ear plugs! lol

get a can at walmart for less than 5 bucks with like a thousand in it!

Latest and greatest pictures of Car.

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2855.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2854.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2852.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2851.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2845.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2849.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2848.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2846.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/DMC24guy/000_2844.jpg)

I've never seen an OPTIONLESS TC with leather before. I hope you're happy, because it honestly looks like the purple people eater was a much nicer car. If you don't want to be trading it again in 6 months, fix it RIGHT. You know, the first time.

I see the foglights are busted out...hmm

Few..."technical" questions. Mainly to do with the exhaust.

Question #1: The ler I put on occasionally hits the body of the car while driving and causes it to vibrate. I know where it'shiznitting, and there is a small gap between the ler and where it touches. I was about to put in small piece of Fiberglass insulation (the only thing I could think of which wouldn't burn or melt) in between the crack as to limit the vibration when driving. Is there anything better I can use that won't catch fire or melt?

Question #2: The ler cut the noise level down quite a bit, but it's still too loud for my liking. Would running a pipe from the ler straight out the back reduce the noise level? As of now, the ler ends just before the rear axle, and no pipe comes out of it.

(By the way, thanks for all the positive comments guys. I really do appreciate them. I AM happy with the car. My brown one was not much nicer.)

yup tailpipes will be quiter than "dumps" as you have now.

Too loud? Pansy.

I ran my car with no catback for months, my parents never complained about it being too loud, my girlfriend never complained, her parents didnt complain. Only got one complaint, and it was my girlfriends neighbor that was 70 something years old.

Hey, you might enjoy losing your hearing, but I don't. Jerk.

It can't be that loud. I drove mine for about 3 weeks for school with just manifolds and the pipes from the manifolds to the Y. Now unpleasent maybe but loud?

I run Layla all the time with NO exhaust at all (about a 2' long 3" downpipe, oh yeah) with the big roller cam and SC50 and it's loud, but not anything like my AMX (WITH lers!) or even the GTO. Ifit's THAT loud you may want to start checking the exhaust manifold/turbo/elbow/downpipe for leaks and bolt snugness. Don't forget the EGR. I HIGHLY recommend you save your money and put a REAL exhaust on the car ASAP. A nice 2.5" system with a quiet turbo-style ler(s) and tailpipe(s) will be sooo much nicer, quieter, and better for the car.

Well, what I have now is the Cat, about a 2 foot pipe running from it, then a clamped on ler and that's it. The ler has a very slight downward angle on it, and it stops right before the rear axle. I figure next pay check I'll head up to the Junk yard, rip off a ler from some really quiet car...like a lexus or something, and have it welded in with a tail pipe out the back. I figure having it welded in will eliminate any exhaust leaks and excess noise.

Junkyard ler?  I can't be more than $20 - $30 for a correct NEW ler for the car.  Next thing you know you'll be asking how to quiet the turbo noise.

I can't seem to find a cheap Quiet ler anywhere. It's all turbo lers, and fart cannons with silencers. I go to Checker or Autozone, and to get the stock ler, it's around $60. I know Midas would rip me off too. Doesn't anyone sell regular quiet lers anymore? Links anyone?

theres a department store here that sells Cherry bomb Turbo II's (what I have on the LX) they are decent sounding.. and 18$ none the less.

i need tailpipes like a mug tho..

Well the thing is...I want quiet. I don't particularly care for the loudness of a 4cyl car, and am looking for near silence...or at least what the car sounded like off the factory floor. Where can I find that kind of ler?

Walmart, Meijer, I think Autozone sells em.. a cheapie off ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHERRY-BOMB-TURBO-LER-7703_W0QQitemZ120078146395QQihZ002QQcategoryZ33636QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Yeah....but that's a performance ler. Isn't it going to be loud?

mine isnt very loud.. but then again.. ive grown accustomed to mine.. I like it =]

Stock would be your best bet, unless you wanted to spend  near $300 for some Flowmaster hushpowers. Indeed, they sound nice... but  on the price.

Well, I put a Turbo II ler on the car so I don't know how much quieter a "Turbo" would be. Stock ler would run me about $60.

Now, I could wait to have the ler Hung Properly (Not cheaply like I've done) and have it welded onto the Pipe coming out of the cat, and have a tail pipe put in. I have to believe that would help the noise problem out.

On a More Serious Note...

I am a bit concerned why the Anti-Lock Brake light comes on almost every time I hit the brakes. It doesn't do it all the time, but most of the time. It comes on for about 1 second, then turns off. I also hear a very faint buzzing when this occurs as well. Don't know if that's related to it or not, but thought I would mention it. The brakes do work, and as far as I can tell, nothing is wrong with them. Which is why I'm concerned about this light constantly coming on. Any ideas? Ways to check the system?

 man, you need some new fogs.  And polish up those headlights.

yeah you REALLY need to have a full exhaust system done, all the way back, to achieve what you're looking for. no it wont be cheap but it doesnt look like you have much of a choice.

Geez, you must have sensitive ears or something. When I first put exhaust on my car I had a 3" downpipe, no cat, and I thought bullets with dumps would work for the short term. Well, those were too loud and sounded nasty, so I bought a couple dynomax super turbos and threw them on. Even through dumps the super turbos sounded as quiet as the stock exhaust and I hated them, so I dumped those and got my hooker maxflows. Been happy ever since.

Anyway, if you don't have a turndown on the end of your ler, put one on. That'll make it seem not so loud.

Secondly, if you don't have a hanger on the pipe, GET ONE. And not the coat hanger that's on it in that first pic. Otherwise you're gonna end up with a cracked manifold.

Won't putting a turndown at the end of the ler make things louder? Won't the sound of the exhaust bounce off the ground and hit the bottom of the car?

A "Super Turbo" is a QUIET ler. I have a 3" one mounted on a removable pipe with turndown for Layla and she goes 100% stock sounding with it on. Save your money and have a pair of 2.5" Turbo's welded up with correct exhaust hangers and tailpipes. Summit actually sells a COMPLETE 2 1/4" stock replacement dual exhaust for TBirds/Cougars for $100. (Call them or look in a catalog, it's not listed online. I have the correct part # if you want it). Shouldn't cost more then $30 to have it all welded up professionally, the right way. Then your car will be quiet, run better, and make you happier.

As for the ABS light and buzzing. That is your ABS accumulator turning on to build up pressure. Check your brake fluid. If it's all dirty and nasty you NEED to COMPLETELY flush the system. A new ABS accumulator is around $800 just for the part. Brake fluid is $3/qt. MAKE SURE IT'S FULL.

Well, I just took a look inside the Brake Fluid container and it does look rather dark and black in color. How does one flush the system? Is there a stop somewhere I can pull?

(I would like that part # for the exhaust. I might actually buy that.)

No. I'm speaking from experience here.

Just curious, did the previous owner disclose to you that the car had busted foglights, no exhaust past the cat., and ABS issues?

I found out about that stuff when I test drove it.

brakes--you have to open the bleeder screws on all of the wheels' slave cylinders, and pump out the old, while pouring in new to the reservoir, and dont stop until ONLY fresh fluid is coming out of the bleeder screws.

Jesus, wouldn't that require three people? One to pour the fluid, one to montior and open the bleeder screws, and another person to pump the brakes?

That is correct. It takes about a gallon of fluid to do all 4 brakes properly in a TC. Use DOT4.

Well, bad news...I think. I rechecked the fluid in the reservoir and it's not dirty. It just must be dark down in the tank or something, but I got a bright white piece of paper and dipped my finger into fluid and placed it on the paper. Its pretty clear.

I did "test" to see if I was low on fluid. The fluid level is about 1/4 inch low of the Max line. I doubt that this is causing the lights to go off.

If the fluid looks dirty looking into the tank, it's dirty. The dirt settles to the bottom of the system. The fluid in the calipers is probably black as night. And yes, even being 1/4" low causes problems on pressurized systems. The accumulator can pull up to half of the resevoir done under braking when working properly. Fill it up right now, buy a gallon of DOT4 and flush it with some friends this weekend. Fix this car right or you'll be trading again in a month.

And this dude gave you a hard time about the one minor problem youhad by charging you an extra $500?

Yeah. I think a bad TFI/PIP is better than having the issues the TC has. DMC24guy got the short end of the stick it seems.

Hopefully the ABS is just a fluid problem.

Fill up the reservoir with fluid. It may look ok, but it will take more than you think. I had the same problem with my TC when I bought it. Took a bottle and a half to actually get it to the full line.

You are just going to have to deal with the exhaust until you can get it done right. I have factory pipes with cat/ler deletes and it is pretty loud, not terribly loud... but too loud to be cranking that heifer up at 5am in the morning. So I understand... I can only take 4 banger loud for so long.

Hey, I'm kinda just like you. Except I'm going from V8 to 4T back to V8. xD

IMHO he got a very short end of the stick. That TC has exactly 2 options (leather, auto) and is in much worse shape then either the silver one or the Purple 5.0. The foglights are $110/pair (from me :D), the ABS accumulator is upwards of $700, a master cylinder is $1100, an exhaust is at least $200, the seats have cigarette burns, etc. I'm sorry to sound gloom and doom, but I would have stuck with the 5.0. I can't believe he convinced you to pay him $500 extra.

Hey come on now. Some of us think he got ripped but he got what he wanted. He's been after a black TC for a while, he got one, he's happy so let him be.
He's here for help to fix his problem, not hear everyone bash him for making his own decision.

I wish I had something to add to help but I know absolutely nothing about TCs.

Just stating my opinion. Hopefully he'll listen and fix the correct and make it nice and keep it that way.

Empathy --> DMC24guy got the short end of the stick it seems.
Bashing --> DMC24guy is a moron for buying that TC.

Nobody is "bashing" his purchase. If anything, I'm vicariously pissed at the guy who sold DMC24guy the TC.

Agreed Jeremy. I'd put the seller on the same pedestal with Chuck Haug! Dude's an @$$ for what he pulled.

Don't worry, I lied about the giving him an extra $500 for the Distributor problem. I would never have agreed to that.

And I do like this car. I never used the auto-dimming features anyway. And I never sit in the passenger seat...don't need power over on that one. I like the Automatic. I don't look at it like getting the short end of the stick. The car handles much better than the LX did, and has a much smoother ride. I think it looks better.

You have to remember the pictures I took of the LX (Which was BROWN not purple) were right after going to a car wash and having them run it through their most expensive wash and have it waxed AND have the wheels done. I could easily make this car look that good if I wanted too.

As for the Foglights....I'll get a new pair soon enough. Never used them anyway. The ABS is concerning, but right now the brakes are working, and I will change the fluid very soon.

Eh...

The foglights, you can get replacements that are exactly the same style (but not Hellas) for $20-50 a pair, then there's always used ones out there too. Or you can get rid of them completely which is what I did, the things are pretty useless anyway IMO. I MIGHT replace them with driving lights, but as fog lights they suck.

As for the brakes...well, my ABS pump took a dump on me, so I swapped to vac-assisted brakes. Cost me a grand total of $100 or so. And it's probably as easy as swapping between ABS master cylinders, except that you don't have to worry about it afterward.

Hey Mr.Pinto, you have that part # for the $100 exhaust system?

My fog light were busted also.I just bought two pairs of smaller round ones and put one pair on each side.They will turn night into day when they're on.I spent about $50.00 for them all.Nice car.Hey,it needs work,so what.In time you'll get it the way you wanted.I've seen guys start with less than you are and end up with a great car with a little time,patience,and actually,not a lot of money.My Sport needs a lot,but,it's a solid foundation,and it'll be great in a month or so.One piece at a time.

Can someone please tell me how having dirty brake fluid in the system would trigger the Anti-Lock brake light to come on everytime I hit the pedal? I filled the reservoir to the max level and the light still come on.

Actually, the "BRAKE!" light comes on when you have low fluid, not the ABS light.

So, I'm not entirely sure what's causing your ABS light to come on. Mine used to come on once in awhile (atually, both the ABS and BRAKE lights would come on together), did this for over a year, before the pump in the master cylinder ped out and left me with a rock-hard pedal (practically had to stand on it to slow the car down)

Is it ONLY the ABS light that comes on?

Everyone keeps telling me to flush the system out...but why would dirty fluid trigger that anti-lock brake light to come on???

our ABS light used to come on and then I found out that it did that when the charging system wasn't at 100%.

Electrical problem?? And here's another thing. How do you clean out all the crud located in the Reservoir? I don't want all the  running through the brake lines. Is there a plug or something at the bottom of the tank to drain whatevers in there?

And I'm still at a loss how having dirty fluid would trip the light to come on?

(When I'm driving and hit the brakes, only the yellow anti-lock brake light comes on.)

My '92 SHO was like that.  Bad alt and it caused all kindsa weird electrical problems.  Airbag light, ABS light, heater.

If I were to take the car to a...brake masters, or similar place, how much should I be charged to have the Fluid flushed and new fluid put in?

Yellow book.  Call one of those places.  It's one of those general maintenace things that a lot of car guys hate to do.  It really is a pain in the ass.  Not so much with 3 people though.  I still need to do it on my car.  I also need to switch over to braided line.  I think I'm getting line expansion on my car, because I have a really mushy pedal.

Old'n'busted - 3 people to bleed the brakes
New Hawtness - Motive Pressure Bleeder (http://"http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=400590+315519&autoview=sku")

But, I'm sure you don't have the money to spend, so my suggestion is moot.

Does the ABS work? Have you tried locking it up?

why do you need abs? Unless all you do is drive on ice, its pretty useless in my opinion. I have driven abs cars, and they stop faster on ice, about the same on snow/wet, and make it so that you can turn the wheel when you are braking heavily.

Unless your turning and braking hard on ice you will prolly never use it. Especially if you are following the speed limit and being a cautious driver. Oh and you live in Arizona. It might get below freezing once every couple of years.

A master cylinder cost me $18 or there abouts for my 86 5.0. I cant see why that one wouldn't work just as good.

You just need to brake down and fix the car. If you want to drive a 18+ year old car, then you have to maintain it for the last 18 years. All that parts are as old or older then I am. Take that into account. If you want a car with decent power, handles good and has alot of horse power, buy a new honda and don't look back. Otherwise, do some reading and searches and fix what is wrong with it.

Your ABS sensors could be dirty also.

Speed bleeders rock! I bought a complete set from Solo Performance (eBay) and they let you pick and choose your set of bleeders. Which was great for me as I had SN-95 brakes in the rear... although it turned out that they are the same as TCs, lol. Plus they come with a catch bag as well for about $30. I had my brakes bled in no time. Although I would really like to try out that Motive Pressure Bleeder. :D

Forget those speed bleeders. I've got a MightyVac had operated vac pump. Hook up the hose and lossen up the bleeder and suck the fluid right on through. Tighten it back up after the air is out. Mine cost me $35 and is does tons more than just bleed brakes. I picked it up at Oreilly's auto they had them on the shelf.

You could also use it to suck all the nasty  out of the M/C and the S/C then none of the  will get sucked through the brake lines and brake parts. The mighty vac is very easy to operate and it comes with a book telling you how to use it for all sorts of auto stuff.

Any pics part #'s on that beast ipsd? I'd like to get one.

I'm just trying to figure out when bleeding brakes became a multi-person affair?
I have NEVER had anyone to help me do any work on my cars, including bleeding brakes.
I have used the same little catch can/hose with std bleeders for years.
My Scorpio w/ ABS was easy.  ON those the fronts bleed normally and the rears, with the car running (or the key in RUN) just open the bleeder, depress the pedal, and let the pump do the work.

Sounds to me like you've gotten yourself into another car that's going to take some money to get running properly....

It's multi-person when all the bleeders are rusted to the calipers :hick:

Well, sorry Chuck, not all of us are gods like yourself. ;)

Less whining...more wrenching ;)

Fair enough.

Bad news guys...I think. So I'm driving down a lone country road doing about 55mph. There's a few cars behind me, but nevertheless, I decide it's time to test the Anti-Lock brakes. I slam down on the pedal and car slows dramatically and then skids w/smoke. It was  near impossible to steer. The rear end felt like it wanted to come around. After pulling off the road and turning I around, I saw the skid-marks. The wheels LOCKED. I tried it again, doing about 60mph, and same result. Rear wheels locked, skidded, couldn't steer, and smoke everywhere.

The Anti-Lock brake light came out when I did this test, and it stood on (Which I'm assuming it's supposed to when the system has been engaged) until I turned the car off and restarted it.

So, now what?

My ABS light doesnt come on when it kicks in...

Your ABS doesn't work, time for a new accumulator and/or master cylinder and/or ABS relay/computer system. Time to spend some money.

Yeah....I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one...yeah.

I'm just going to have to go ahead and live without ABS for a while. I need two new front tires and to have my eyes checked. I've gone 2 1/2 years without a prescription change and it's getting really hard for me see, especially at night. I can't begin to tell you guys how important it is to be able to see.

ON A MORE IMPORTANT NOTE:
In the mean time while I'm waiting for my paltry paycheck, my brakes aren't going to fail on me are they? The loss of ABS doesn't mean I can't drive it anymore right? They're still going to work right?

What if I just pull the entire ABS master cylinder out? Could I drive it like that!?? Using the E-Brake to stop all the time?

Seriously? :wtf:

I'd start with Shawn's advice a few posts back.

Nah, I just wanted to see everyone's reaction to that one...considering I'm known as the guy who breaks off the Warning tabs on his brakes before putting them on, just to avoid that annoying squeak later on...

Seriously though, if the ABS went out, would I lose all brake function, or just the ABS? I can get a good ABS unit for about $100 if necessary, i just wanted to know what might happen. Should I even spend the $40 to have the system flushed now that I know the Anti-lock brakes don't work? Might that somehow "fix" whatever is wrong?

:screwy: Your E-brake is only on the rear axle. If you did that then you would really be complaining about the rear end coming around on you when braking!:punchballs:  This is probably one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. If someone was to actually attempt to daily drive a car with only an E-brake, they would most likely kill themself, someone else, or both.:shoothead: If you have no brain and want to commit suicide, go ahead and pull that master cylinder off.

You don't have functioning ABS now. Yes you can drive without ABS. The power brakes and ABS work together but function separately.

I'm pretty sure you can pull the codes for ABS.  The connectors are in the trunk, behind the rear seat backs.  The panel just flips down.

I'm the guy that breaks off those pesky little warning tabs before putting on a new set of Brakes, so I don't have to hear that annoying little squeak later on. I've also used duct tape to cover up a 4 foot crack in my front windshield so the glare doesn't affect my driving. I use Brasso on my Headlights, and Windex to clean my Mag wheels. I've put pennies in door hinges to keep them from sagging, and mixed R-134 and R-12 AND Freeze 12 all in one A/C system just to try to get cold air.

Now does driving with only the E-brake sound so far fetched for me now? Hell, I'd punch holes in the floorboard and go Fred Flintstone if I had too.

(In all seriousness though, I was joking...see post above. Now if I could have some real help please?)

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/techarticles.html (http://"http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/techarticles.html")

There's a pretty good article on the TC ABS here.

There is a VERY good chance that the ABS will start working or function slightly with the fluid flush. Doing that and cleaning all 4 sensors fixes the entire system 85% of the time.

Where are the sensors? And what can I use to clean them? Due to the seeming inability to use simple solutions like soap and water, surely there is some $30 cleaner than can ONLY be used to clean the sensors.

When I get paid Friday, I've got to get a set of front tires, and after that, depending on the cash "sitcheeashun", I'm might get the flush done.

The sensors are magnetic so cleaning them usually involves just a rag and water. There is one on each wheel. There's wiring going to them and they st on the backside of the rotors on the dustshields. You have to take out the retaining clips/bolts to get them out from under the car, clean them, and put them back. Make sure each one goes back on the correct wheel (or just leave the wires plugged in and clean them while under the car.)

Hey Mr. Pinto, can I have that part # for the Dual Exhaust from Summit?

(And did you ever get your scanner to work??)

I would be interested in this as well.

Ok guys, I think it's time to bring attention to one of the potential "issues" I've encountered since owning this Turbo. When I start the car, in park, the engine idles really high. It usually crawls up to 1k and then rapidly shoots to 2k where it stays there. If I sit for a minute or so, it will drop to 1500rpm, stay there for a few seconds and then go back to 2k. And it will repeat itself over and over.

While in drive, at a stop, the engine idles at about 1100rpm. That's usually pretty constant, although after sitting a some lights, it will go up just slightly.

At first I thought..."bad TFI"...since that always seems to cause trouble, and always seems to fix everything, but then the more I thought about it, I said..."maybe it's the timing...perhaps it's too advanced." The previous owner was running Premium all the time and had the switch set for it as well.

I know idling in park at 1500-2k is way high, and 1100 in drive is as well. I'm thinking someone just grabbed the Distributor and twisted it as far as it could go.

What should I do first? I'm assuming if the "dizzy" was turned too much, it would affect the idle like it's doing now right?

That sounds like a vacuum leak, bad or sticking IAC or bad TPS...

Would checking the codes show this?

It just seems to me like the Idle is set way to high. It drives fine. But a 2k idle in park? C'mon now!?

Ok, well, I checked the codes and pulled 83. I checked them twice, and 83 was the only thing coming up. For our cars this means??

KOER, KOEO, CM? Please be more specific.

Key was in the On position, but engine was not running. I can't be more specific. The light light bulb blinked 8 times, paused, blinked 3 times. About a 5 second pause came, and again 8 blinks pause...3 blinks. That was it.

I vote bad TPS. Mine would do the same thing.

According to a search on NATO, Code 83 has to do with the Cooling Fans.
http://natomessageboard.com/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=014971#000000

Yeah, I know the fans aren't right because they run all the time. When I turn the key to the run position both come on and stay on. I'm not too worried about that. I did read that the "83" could mean that, and it makes perfect sense actually. So, if the codes don't show anything wrong except the fans being on all the time....now what?

KOER!

How do I check the TPS report?

Gee...what do you think the Idle Air Control valve does?  Unplug it.  Does the idle drop?

Code 83 is for the high-speed fan relay I think.

Ok, checked the codes with the Engine running this time, and pulled the following:
21
34
74
77

Too many if you ask me.

(pulled the electrical connector off the IAC and the engine sputtered and died, so I don't think that's bad.)

dude go here http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=14 theres all the codes you need, and they have columns for when you found em aka KOEO etc...
 
it helps a lot more if you can report the condition, not just the code. i doubt everyones got em memorized. just to dang many of em.
 
i dont know if this is of any use but i know i tested this once wih my car (unplug the IAC) and when it was cold it died right off the bat. but when warmed up it actually ran. the idle was LOW but it did run. maybe my throttle stop screw is holding the throttle open a little? just food for thought...

Ok well, lets see here:

21-   ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts. -Don't have a clue
34-    PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts. -Again, don't know what this means.
74-    Brake On/Off switch not actuated during KOER test (user error).
77- System failed to recognize brief WOT during Dynamic Response Test (user error).

It's funny, because some sites say that code "34" means No EGR flow and others say different stuff. What am I to believe? Should I take off the EGR just for the heck of it?

I think the TC throws a 34 even though there is no issue  because of some recall that was done.  You may or may not have egr issues but  it does explain a possible 34 code

21  will come up if you run codes on a cold engine.  If engine was at operating temp  you may need a ect sensor, or have a problem in that circuit.


as already mentioned  fordfuelinjection.com is a great resource.

I  remember doing the code pull thing in 1985  no internet or anything  just some service literature I pulled at the library......those were the days  LOL

start throwing snow balls now cause all you guys are freaking idiots for using and promoting that  site - fordfuelinjection.com

The guy can't solder nor does he point out the correct preparation to solder correctly,,, he fails to mention critical steps that probably caused you to get codes 74 and 77,(cut the wheel, step on the brake ect prior to even pulling codes), the list goes on and on and this guy has said you can clear the codes on your computer by just unhooking the battery for 15min!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.  The only way to clear any codes is to unhook the sig rtn to sti connection during the time in which that specific code is being dumped out to you.

he also says you can use your digi meter to pull codes if you leave it set on continuity to listen for the beeps,, now thats curious,, ill have to jump right on that and set my meter to resistance and let current pass thru my "ohmmeter".

i looked at those code pulling instructions for some time trying to figure out what the heck to do and i got lost.  seems to me that i would have my sti and sto hooked up to the neg bat terminal as far as i could tell.

I use the voltmeter method and use a 12vdc buzzer instead of the actual meter.

this guy does not even make mention of what to do with the Signal Return connection.



stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,stupid.


you need to start over and follow the instructions here,,,,,,,,,
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/OBD_I.html


the fuelinjection.com site might have some goodies but just the fact that each tab i looked at had some problem, it bugs me.  Take for instance the "Tech"  secion on relays.  A man would think there would be some "above and "beyond" information on relays,,,well,,, there was nothing inpressive.

Here a chart of common TC EEC Codes... for the ones not listed just do a search on NATO.
http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/eec.htm

i dont know why youd have to do a search
the 74 and 77 codes are your fault ,, you did not do the test properly.




[COLOR="Blue"] TheRangerStation.com[/COLOR]
 
Your 'Original' Ultimate Ranger Resource!
 
Serving Ranger, Bronco II, Explorer and Mazda B-Series Enthusiasts.
 
 Clearing Codes
These codes are kept in memory for 40 warm up cycles.  To clear the codes for purposes of  testing or confirming repair, perform the code reading procedure.  When the fault codes begin to be displayed, de-activate the test by either disconnecting the jumper wire or releasing the test button on the hand scanner.  Stopping the test during code transmission will erase the continuous memory.  Do not disconnect the negative battery cable to clear the codes; the keep alive memory will be cleared and a new code (19) will be stored for loss of PCM power.


Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Method ***using your [COLOR="Red"]check engine [/COLOR]light as the test light.

The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) on the dash (Engine Light) can be used to retrieve the stored codes.  This method does not allow for any system investigation.  This should only be used in the field where quick checks are needed.  Follow the directions previously given for the scan tool procedure.  To activate the tests, use a jumper wire to connect the signal return pin on the diagnostic connector to the Self-Test Input (STO) connector.  The self test input line is the separate wire and connector with or near the diagnostic connector.  Codes are transmitted with a pause between flashes.  Code 32 would be sent as 3-flashes, a pause and then 2-flashes.  A slightly longer pause separates the codes. The only way to repeat the code is to recycle the system.  The Continuous Memory Codes are separated from the other codes by 6-seconds, a flash and then another 6-second delay.  Compare the 2-digit and 3-digit Diagnostic Codes with the appropriate chart[COLOR="red"].********FOR THIS METHOD, YOU DONT NEED A METER OR A TEST LIGHT, JUST A PAPERCLIP*******[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Red"]((SEE DIAGRAM AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST FOR HOW TO INSTALL YOUR PAPERCLIP ONLY)))[/COLOR]


 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KEY ON ENGINE RUNNING (KOER) TEST


1.  Make sure engine is fully warmed. If in doubt, run engine at 2000 rpm for 2 minutes.

2.  Turn ignition off and wait 10 seconds for system to shut off. Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or Neutral (manual).
 
3.  Hook up light and jumper (or tester if you have one).
 
4.  Make sure vehicle is safe to run and start engine.
 
5.  Engine I.D. should be output.
 
6.  Step on brake and turn steering wheel 1/4 turn. If the vehicle has an overdrive cancel switch, push it.
 
7.  If a "Goose" pulse is received, move throttle quickly 1/2 way down and release.
 
8.  Fast Codes are output (ignore).
 
9.  Read codes.
 
10. See code explanations and check components as necessary.  Use FIRST CODE OUTPUT and retest after any repairs are made.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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OBD-I Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC)  Applications
 
2-Digit Codes (All Fords)
 

Differences in test mode noted as:
(O) = Key On Engine Off test
(R) = Key On Engine Running test
(M) = Memory code


Code Definition
 
11
 System checks OK 
12
 Idle Speed Control motor or Air Bypass not controlling idle properly (generally idle too low) - ISC 
13 (O) ISC did not respond properly (extends to touch throttle then retracts for KOEO) - ISC
 (R) Idle Speed Control motor or Air Bypass not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high)
 (M) ISC sticking, open ITS circuit or TP sticking 
14 Ignition pickup was erratic - Ignition Systems
 E4OD Transmission diesel RPM sensor - Diesel RPM sensor 
15 (O) No Keep Alive Memory power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (Memory Test Failure)
 (M) KAM (pin 1) was interrupted (was battery disconnected ?) 
16 1.9L & 2.5L - Throttle stop set too high - IDLE or Idle Set Procedures
 2.3L - RPM's too low - IDLE
 (O) Electronic ignition - IDM circuit fault - Ignition Systems 
17 1.9L & 2.5L - Throttle stop set too low - IDLE
18 (R) Check base timing & advance function - Timing Tests
 (M) Ignition TACH signal erratic - Ignition Systems 
19 (O) No Vehicle Power (pins 37 + 57) or bad PCM VPWR Diagnosis
 (R) Erratic idle during test (reset throttle & retest) - Idle Set Procedures
 Electronic ignition Cylinder ID sensor/circuit problem - Ignition Systems 
21  Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor out of range - ECT 
22  MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range - MAP 
23  Throttle sensor out of range or throttle set too high - TPS 
24  Intake Air Temperature (IAT) or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range - IAT VAT 
25  Knock sensor not tested (ignore if not pinging) - KS 
26 Mass Air Flow (MAF) or Vane Air Flow (VAF) out of range - MAF VAF
 Transmission Oil Temperature (TOT) sensor out of range - Transmissions 
27  Vehicle Speed Sensor problem - VSS 
28 Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range - VAT
 2.3L w/Electronic Ignition - Cyl ID, IDM low or right coil pack failure - Ignition Systems 
29  Vehicle Speed Sensor problem - VSS 
 EGR CODES DEPEND ON WHAT SYSTEM TYPE THE VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH: 
 EVP is for vehicles equipped with EGR solenoid(s), with or without an EVP sensor 
 EVR is for vehicles equipped with an EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) and an EGR Valve Position (EVP) sensor
 PFE is for vehicles with Pressure Feedback EGR (PFE) sensor and and an EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) 
 If you don't know what type of system you have, go to the EVP heading, which is the first one. 
 There are pictures under the different headings to help you identify the system. 
31 EVP - (O, R, M) EVP signal is/was out of range - EVP
 EVR - (O, R, M) EVP signal is/was low - EVR
 PFE - (O, R, M) PFE signal is/was low - PFE 
32 EVP - (R) EGR not responding properly during test - EVP
 EVR - (O, R, M) EVP signal is/was low - EVR
 PFE - (R, M) PFE shows low pressure, EGR not seating or memory, not seating intermittently - PFE 
33  ALL - (O, M) EGR did not open/ respond during test or if memory code, did not open intermittently - EVP EVR PFE 
34 EVP - (R) EGR did not respond properly during test - EVP
 EVR - (O, R, M) EVP sensor is/was high - EVR
 PFE - (O, R, M) PFE sensor is/was out of range - PFE 
35 EVP - (R) Engine RPM's too low to test EGR system - EVP
 EVR - (O, R, M) EVP sensor signal is/was high - EVR
 PFE - (O, R, M) PFE sensor signal is/was high - PFE 
38  Idle Tracking Switch signal was intermittent - ISC 
39  Transmission Torque Converter clutch not engaging - Transmissions 
40  SERIES FUEL/AIR INJECTION CODES ON VEHICLES WITH DUAL OXYGEN SENSORS REFER TO THE RIGHT OR REAR SENSOR. EXCEPT: 1984-1988 3.8L ENGINES: LEFT SENSOR 
41 (R) System lean - Fuel control
 (M) System was lean for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching) - Fuel control 
42 (R) System rich - Fuel control
 (M) System was rich for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching) - Fuel control 
43  (R) HO2S sensor not reading (run at 2000 rpm's for 2 minutes and retest - check for HO2S switching)
 (M) Was lean at WOT for 3 seconds or more - Fuel control 
44  AIR system inoperative - Air Injection 
45 AIR not Diverting (AIRD) - Air Injection
 Electronic Ignition - coil primary circuit failure - Ignition Systems 
46 AIR Bypass (AIRB) not working - Air Injection
 Electronic Ignition - primary circuit failure coil 2 - Ignition Systems 
47  Low flow unmetered air (check for small vacuum leaks, injector o'rings, gaskets etc.) 
 E4OD transmission 4x4 switch/circuit problem - Transmissions 
48 High flow unmetered air (check for large vacuum leak, inlet hoses etc.)
 Electronic Ignition - coil primary circuit failure - Ignition Systems 
49 Electronic Ignition - spout signal circuit problem - Ignition Systems
 Transmission 1/2 shift problem - Transmissions 
51  Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor signal is/was too high - ECT 
52 Power Steering Pressure Switch/circuit open - PSP
 (R) Did you turn wheel during test ? 
53  Throttle Position sensor too high - TPS 
54  Intake Air Temperature (IAT) or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) signal high - IAT VAT 
55  No or low (under 7.5 V) Key Power to PCM pin 5 
56 Vane Air Flow (VAF) or Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor high - VAF MAF
 Transmission Oil Temperature sensor too high - Transmissions 
57 Intermittent in Park/Neutral/ Switch or Neutral Pressure switch circuit - PNP or Transmissions
 1990 Scorpio - Octane jumper installed (information only code - to inform you if it is installed or not) 
58 Idle Tracking Switch (ITS) signal problem ISC
 Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range or open - VAT 
59 AXOD 4/3 circuit fault - Transmissions
 3.0L SHO - Low speed fuel pump circuit problem - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
 Transmission 2/3 shift problem - Transmissions 
 1990 Scorpio - Idle jumper installed (information only code - to inform you if it is installed or not) 
61  Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor is or was too low - ECT 
62 AXOD (KOEO only) 3/2 circuit short to ground - Transmissions
 AXOD (KOEO AND KOER) 4/3 circuit failure - Transmissions
 E4OD excessive converter clutch slippage - Transmissions 
63  Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) signal too low TPS 
64  Intake Air Temperature (IAT) or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) signal low or grounded - IAT VAT 
65 Check intermittent HO2S (signal or ground) - Fuel Control
 (R) E4OD truck - cycle OD cancel switch after engine ID is received - Transmissions
 1984 3.8L ONLY - O, M Battery voltage high (check for electrical system overcharging) 
66 Vane Air Flow (VAF) or Mass Air Flow (MAF) signal low - VAF MAF
 Transmission Oil Temperature (TOT) signal low (possibly grounded) - Transmissions 
67 Park/Neutral circuit fault - PNP
 Transmission Manual Lever Position (MLP) sensor circuit - Transmissions
 (M) Intermittent Park Neutral Position (PNP) sensor fault - PNP 
68 Idle Tracking Switch (ITS) circuit (possibly grounded) - ISC
 Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range or grounded - VAT
 3.8L AXOD -Transmission Temperature Switch (TTS) open - Transmissions
 Electronic Transmission - Transmission Oil Temperature (TOT) sensor was overheated - Transmissions 
69 AXOD transmission (O) 3/2 switch closed (possible short circuit) - Transmissions
 AXOD (M) 3/2 switch open (poss short to power) - Transmissions
 E4OD 3/4 shift problem - Transmissions 
70 (M) 3.8L AXOD - Data link to instrument cluster fault. Service any other EEC codes, erase memory and retest.
 If code is still present refer to instrument cluster diagnosis manual. 
71 (M) 1.9L TBI, 2.3L TBI, 2.5L TBI - ITS signal was grounded when throttle should have been opening ITS - ISC
 ISC motor problem or Idle Tracking Switch (ITS) signal wire shorted to ground - ISC
 (M) 1.9L MFI - PCM re-initialized. Possible electrical noise, case ground or intermittent VPWR problem - VPWR Diagnosis
 (M) 3.8L AXOD - Data link to instrument cluster fault - See code 70 
72 (R) No MAP or MAF change in "goose" test - retest, check for frequency or voltage change - MAP MAF
 (M) 1.9L MFI - VPWR circuit to PCM was intermittent - VPWR Diagnosis
 (M) 2.3L T/C - PCM re-initialized. Possible electrical noise, case ground or intermittent VPWR problem -  VPWR Diagnosis
 (M) 3.8L AXOD - Message center data link circuit fault - See code 70
73 (O) Rerun test, if 73 is still output replace TPS
 (R) No Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) change in "goose" test. Must get at least 25% throttle rotation - TPS 
74 Was brake depressed after engine ID was received ?
 Brake On Off (BOO) signal open or short to ground - BOO 
75  Brake On Off (BOO) signal shorted to power - BOO 
76 Vane Air Flow (VAF) did not respond to "goose" test - VAF
77  System did not receive "goose" test - see TESTS 
78  (M) VPWR circuit to PCM was intermittent or the PCM is bad VPWR Diagnosis 
79  A/C is on or pin 10 is shorted to power 
80  SERIES CODES GENERALLY ARE CIRCUIT PROBLEMS THAT COULD BE WIRING, RELAY OR SOLENOID RELATED. 
 ONLY ONE OF THE CIRCUITS LISTED UNDER THE CODE IS USED ON EACH VEHICLE. THE FAULT IS IN WHICHEVER SOLENOID OR CIRCUIT IS PRESENT ON THE VEHICLE 
81 Boost control solenoid - Solenoids
 AIRD solenoid - Solenoids and Air Injection
 3.0L SHO - Inlet Air Solenoid - Solenoids 
82 2.3L TC - Fan Control wire shorted to ground - A/C and Fan Circuits
 AIRB solenoid - Solenoids and Air Injection
 3.8L SC - Super Charger Bypass Solenoid - Solenoids 
83 High Electro Drive Fan circuit fault - A/C and Fan Circuits
 EGR Control solenoid - Solenoids
 3.0L SHO - Low Speed Fuel Pump Relay circuit - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
84 EGR Vacuum Regulator - Solenoids
 EGR cutoff solenoid - Solenoids
 EGR Vent solenoid - Solenoids 
85 2.3L T/C Automatic - 3/4-4/3 Shift solenoid - Transmissions
 CANP solenoid (ALL 1989) - Solenoids
 (M) 1.9L MFI - System has corrected rich condition - Fuel control
86  2.3L or 2.9L Truck - A4LD 3/4 shift solenoid - Transmissions 
 (M) 1.9L MFI - System has corrected lean condition - Fuel control 
87 (O) Fuel pump circuit fault (check inertia switch) - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
 Vehicles with 2BBL carb - Temperature Compensated Accelerator Pump Solenoid - Solenoids 
 (M) intermittent in fuel pump primary circuit - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
 NOTE: On some Escorts with automatic seat belts this code is normal IN MEMORY due to the wiring 
88 Throttle Kicker Solenoid - Solenoids
 Variable Voltage Choke relay circuit fault - VVC
 Fan Control circuit fault - A/C and Fan Circuits
 A4LD - Converter Clutch Override solenoid - Transmissions
 Electronic Ignition - IDM, DPI or spout circuit fault - Ignition Systems 
89 A4LD - Converter Clutch Override solenoid - Transmissions
 AXOD Torque Converter Control solenoid circuit - Transmissions
 Exhaust Heat Control (heat riser) solenoid circuit - Solenoids 
90 SERIES FUEL/AIR INJECTION CODES ON VEHICLES WITH DUAL OXYGEN SENSORS REFER TO THE LEFT OR FRONT SENSOR. EXCEPT: 1984-1988 3.8L ENGINES: RIGHT SENSOR 
91 (R, M) System running lean - Fuel control
 Transmission SS 1 circuit/solenoid problem - Transmissions 
92 (R) System running rich - Fuel control
 Transmission SS 2 circuit/solenoid problem - Transmissions 
93 (O) Throttle linkage binding or bad ISC motor ISC (R) HO2S not reading - Fuel control
 Transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem - Transmissions 
94 AIR system inoperative - Air Injection
 Transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem - Transmissions 
95  (O) Fuel pump: open, bad ground or always on - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
 (R) AIR not Diverting (AIRD) - Air Injection
 (M) Possible bad fuel pump ground or open between fuel pump and pin 8 at PCM (Fuel Pump Monitor signal) - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
96 (O) Fuel pump monitor circuit shows no power - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
 (R) AIR Bypass (AIRB) not working - Air Injection
 (M) (Service 87 code first if present) Fuel pump relay or battery power feed was open - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
97  E4OD OD cancel light circuit failure - Transmissions 
98  (R) Did not pass KOEO yet (Get 11 in KOEO first) 
 Transmission EPC circuit/solenoid failure - Transmissions 
99 (R) ISC needs to learn (Let idle for 2 minutes; Erase memory and retest)
 Transmission EPC circuit/solenoid failure - Transmissions
Definitions
 
ACT  Air Charge Temperature Sensor / BP See MAP / 
EEC  Electronic Engine Control System 
ECT  Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 
EGR  Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve 
-- EVP  Valve Position Sensor 
EGR  / HEGO  Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor 
KOEO  Key On Engine Off 
KOER  Key On Engine Running 
MAF  Mass Air Flow Sensor 
MAP  Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor 
MLP  Manual Lever Position 
PCM  Powertrain Control Module 
SPOUT  Distributor Jumper to Allow Initial Timing 
TP  Throttle Position Sensor 


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Home Search Forums Chat Tech Library TRS Fab & OffRoad Events Magazine

OBD-I Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Applications
 
3-Digit Codes (All Ford)
 
Differences in test mode noted as:


(O) = Key On Engine Off test
(R) = Key On Engine Running test
(M) = Memory code
 
Code Definitions
 
111  System checks OK 
112  (O,M) Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor is/was low or grounded - IAT 
113  (O,M) IAT sensor is/was high or open - IAT 
114  (O,R) IAT sensor out of range - IAT 
116  (O,R) Engine Coolant (ECT) sensor out of range - ECT 
117  (O,M) ECT sensor is/was low or grounded - ECT 
118  (O,M) ECT sensor is/was high or open - ECT 
121  (O,R,M) Throttle Position (TP) sensor out of range - TPS 
122  (O,M) TP low (possibly grounded or open circuit) - TPS 
123  (O,M) TP is/was high or short to power - TPS 
124  (M) TP voltage was higher than expected - Fuel control 
125  (M) TP voltage was lower than expected - Fuel control 
126  (O,R,M) MAP or BARO sensor out of range - ">MAP 
128  (M) MAP vacuum has not been changing - check vacuum lines - ">MAP 
129  (R) No MAP or Mass Air Flow sensor change during "goose" test - MAP MAF 
136 (R) Oxygen sensor not switching/system lean Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
137 (R) Oxygen sensor not switching/system rich Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
138 (R) Fault in Cold Start Injector circuit - Fuel control
139 (M) Oxygen sensor not switching Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
144 (M) Oxygen sensor not switching Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
157  (R,M) Mass Air Flow signal is/was low or grounded - MAF 
158  (O,R,M) MAF sensor is/was high or short to power - MAF 
159  (O,R) MAF sensor is/was out of range - MAF 
167  (R) No Throttle Position sensor change in "goose" test (must get at least 25% rotation) - TPS 
171 (M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system was at adaptive limits - Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
172 (R,M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean - Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
173 (R,M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was rich - Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
174 (M) Oxygen sensor was slow in switching Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
175 (M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system was at adaptive limits - Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
176 (M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
177 (M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system was rich Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
178 (M) Oxygen sensor was slow in switching Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
179 (M) Fuel system was rich at part throttle Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
181 (M) Fuel system was lean at part throttle Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
182 (M) Fuel system was rich at idle Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
183 (M) Fuel system was lean at idle Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control
184 (M) Mass Air (MAF) output higher than expected - Fuel control
185 (M) Mass Air (MAF) output lower than expected - Fuel control
186 (M) Injector pulse width longer than expected or Mass Air Flow (MAF) lower than expected - Fuel control
187 Injector pulse width shorter than expected or Mass Air Flow (MAF) higher than expected - Fuel control
188 (M) Fuel system was rich at part throttle - Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
189 (M) Fuel system was lean at part throttle - Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
191 (M) Fuel system was rich at idle - Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
192 (M) Fuel system was lean at idle - Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
193 Failure in Flexible Fuel (FF) sensor circuit - Fuel control
194  (M) Perform cylinder balance test to check for inoperative injectors 
195  (M) Perform cylinder balance test to check for inoperative injectors 
211  (M) Ignition PIP signal was erratic or missing - Ignition Systems 
212  (M) Ignition TACH signal was erratic (module/wiring) or SPOUT circuit fault - Ignition Systems 
213  (R) Ignition SPOUT or SAW circuit open or shorted - Ignition Systems 
214  (M) Error in Cylinder ID (CID) circuit or signal - Ignition Systems 
215  (M) Primary circuit failure - ignition coil 1 - Ignition Systems 
216  (M) Primary circuit failure - ignition coil 2 - Ignition Systems 
217  (M) Primary circuit failure - ignition coil 3 - Ignition Systems 
218  (M) IDM signal open or high or left coil pack failure - Ignition Systems 
219  (M) SPOUT circuit failure, timing defaulted to 10 degrees - follow code 213 diagnosis 
222  (M) IDM open or high or right coil pack failure - Ignition Systems 
223  (M) Dual Plug (DPI), SPOUT or IDM circuit fault - Ignition Systems 
224  (M) Failure in ignition coil primary circuit - Ignition Systems 
225  (R) Knock sensor not tested (ignore if not pinging) - KS 
226  (O) Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) signal fault - Ignition Systems 
232  (M) EI primary coil circuit failure - Ignition Systems 
238  (M) EI primary circuit failure - ignition coil 4 - Ignition Systems 
311  (R) AIR system not working - Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Air Injection 
312  (R) AIR not diverting - Air Injection 
313  (R) AIR not bypassing - Air Injection 
314  (R) AIR inoperative, Left or Front HO2S - Air Injection 
326  (R,M) Pressure Feedback EGR shows low pressure EGR not seating or not seating intermittently - PFE 
327  (O,R,M) EGR feedback signal is/was low - EVR or PFE 
328  (O,R,M) EGR Valve Position (EVP) is/was low - EVR 
332  (R,M) EGR did not open/respond during test or if memory code, did not open intermittantly - EVR or PFE 
334  (O,R,M) EVP sensor is/was high - EVR 
335  (O) EGR feedback signal is/was out of range - EVR or PFE 
336  (O,R,M) PFE sensor signal is/was was high - ">PFE 
337  (O,R,M) EGR feedback signal is/was was high - EVR 
338  (M) Cooling system did not heat up (check cooling system / thermostat operation) 
339  (M) Cooling system overheated (check cooling system / thermostat operation) 
341  (O) Octane jumper installed (information only code to notify you if it is installed) 
411  (R) Idle speed system not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high) - ISC 
412  (R) Idle speed system not controlling idle properly (generally idle too low) - ISC 
452  (M) Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) problem 
511  (O) No power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (processor) 
512  (M) Memory power (PCM pin 1) was interrupted - Was battery disconnected ? 
513  (O) Replace processor (PCM) (internal failure) 
519  (O) PSP switch/circuit open - PSP 
521  (R) Wheel not turned during test or PSP problem - PSP 
522 (O) Park/Neutral Position (PNP) or Clutch Pedal Position (CPP) circuit fault - PNP
  transmission MLP sensor out of range in park - Transmissions 
524  Problem in low speed fuel pump circuit - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
525  (O,M) Park/Neutral Position (PNP) or Clutch Pedal Position (CPP) circuit fault - PNP 
528  (M) System shows voltage at pin 10 (is A/C on ?) or pin 30 (PNP, CPP switch) - PNP 
529  (M) Data Communications Link to processor failure 
  Service any EEC codes, erase memory and retest. If code is still present refer to instrument cluster diagnosis manual. 
533  (M) Data Communications Link to instrument cluster failure - see 529 
536  (O,R,M) Brake On Off open or shorted to ground - BOO 
538  (R) System did not receive "goose" test - TESTS 
539  (O) System shows voltage at PCM pin 10. Is A/C on ? 
542  (O,M) Fuel pump open, bad ground or always on - - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
543 (O) Fuel pump monitor circuit shows no power - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
  (M) (Service 556 code first if present) Fuel pump relay or battery power feed was open - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
551 Problem in Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) solenoid/circuit - Solenoids
552  (O) AIRB solenoid/circuit failure - Solenoids 
553  (O) AIRD solenoid/circuit failure - Solenoids 
554  (O) Fuel Press Regulator Control solenoid/circuit fault - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
556  (O,M) Fuel pump relay primary circuit fault - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
557  (O,M) Low speed pump relay primary circuit fault - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
558  (O) EGR vacuum regulator solenoid/circuit failure - EVR or PFE or Solenoids 
559  (O) A/C relay primary circuit fault - A/C and Fan Circuits 
563  (O) High Fan Control (HFC) circuit failure - A/C and Fan Circuits 
564  (O) Fan Control (FC) circuit failure - A/C and Fan Circuits 
565  (O) Canister Purge 1 solenoid/circuit failure - Solenoids 
566 (O) transmission 3/4 shift solenoid/circuit - Transmissions
569  (O) Canister Purge 2 solenoid/circuit failure - Solenoids 
578  (M) A/C pressure sensor VREF short to ground - A/C and Fan Circuits 
579  (M) ACP sensor did not change with A/C on - A/C and Fan Circuits 
581  (M) Cooling fan current was excessive - A/C and Fan Circuits 
582  (O) Open cooling fan circuit - A/C and Fan Circuits 
583  (M) Fuel pump current was excessive - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
584  (M) Open power ground circuit - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
585  (M) A/C clutch current was excessive - A/C and Fan Circuits 
586  (M) Open circuit in A/C clutch - A/C and Fan Circuits 
587  (O, M) Communication problem between PCM and Variable Control Relay Module (VCRM) - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits 
617  (M) Transmission shift failure (1/2 shift) - Transmissions 
618  (M) Transmission shift failure (2/3 shift) - Transmissions 
619  (M) Transmission shift failure (3/4 shift) - Transmissions 
621  (O) Solenoid/circuit failure - shift solenoid 1 - Transmissions 
622  (O) Solenoid/circuit failure - shift solenoid 2 - Transmissions 
624  (O,M) Solenoid/circuit failure -Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) current is high - Transmissions 
625  (O,M) Solenoid/circuit failure - Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) current is low - Transmissions 
626  (O) Transmission Coast Clutch (CCS) Solenoid/circuit fault - Transmissions 
627  (O) Torque Converter Clutch circuit fault - Transmissions 
628  (M) Excessive converter clutch slippage - Transmissions 
629  (O,M) Torque Converter Clutch circuit fault - Transmissions 
631  (O) Overdrive Cancel Light circuit problem - Transmissions 
632  (R) E4OD - Transmission Control Switch (TCS) should be cycled once between engine ID and Goose test 
633  (O) 4x4L switch should be in 4x2 or 4x4 high for the test 
634  (O,M) Park/Neutral Position (PNP) or Clutch Pedal Position (CPP) circuit fault 
  Electronic shift transmission - Manual Lever Position (MLP) sensor out of range in PARK - Transmissions 
636  (O,R) Transmission Oil Temperature (TOT) sensor out of range - Transmissions 
637  (O,M) TOT sensor is/was high or open - Transmissions 
638  (O,M) TOT sensor is/was low or grounded - Transmissions 
639  (R,M) Transmission Speed sensor (TSS) circuit fault - Transmissions 
641  (O) Transmission solenoid/circuit failure Shift Solenoid 3 - Transmissions 
643  (O)(M) Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) circuit - Transmissions 
645  (M) Transmission 1st gear failure - Transmissions 
646  (M) Transmission 2nd gear failure - Transmissions 
647  (M) Transmission 3rd gear failure - Transmissions 
648  (M) Transmission 4th gear failure - Transmissions 
649  (M) Transmission EPC system failure - Transmissions 
651  (M) Transmission EPC solenoid/circuit fault - Transmissions 
652  (O) Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) circuit fault - Transmissions 
654  (O) Transmission selector not in PARK - Transmissions 
656  (M) Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) slip - Transmissions 
657  (M) Transmission temperature was excessive - Transmissions 
998 (R) Did not pass Key On Engine Off test yet (Get 111 in KOEO first)
  (O) Transmission Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) solenoid/circuit fault - Transmissions
Code Definitions:
 
ACT  Air Charge Temperature Sensor 
BP  See MAP 
EEC  Electronic Engine Control System 
ECT  Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 
EGR  Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve 
EVP  EGR Valve Position Sensor 
HEGO  Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor 
KOEO  Key On Engine Off 
KOER  Key On Engine Running 
MAF  Mass Air Flow Sensor 
MAP  Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor 
MLP  Manual Lever Position 
PCM  Powertrain Control Module 
SPOUT  Distributor Jumper to Allow Initial Timing 
TP  Throttle Position Sensor 
 

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You have to realize that the only reference material that will that will define the codes specifically for your car are the Ford shop manuals for the year of your car.

These other reference materials are a composit of all years and engines over the life span of the EEC-IV.
Or if in a forum maybe just for the engines and years of vehicles involved in the forum.
There is a lot of commonality between them but also a lot of differances.

The EGR codes refer to PFE and EVP.
You have to know what kind of an EGR system your car has.

PFE uses a pressure feedback sensor.
EVP uses a EGR valve position sensor.

It takes some experience to gleen what applies to your car from the reference material.

Oh for Christs sake. KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid.

Here we go.

Code 34- does the EGR valve have a green and black check valve inline?  If so, your EGR recall has been done, and the code 34 is not a concern.It is NORMAL.


Codes 74 & 77-  Operator error. NOT A CONCERN.

Code 21-Common if you didnt let the car warm up.  If it was warmed up, ask Pete D over on http://www.turbotbird.com to send you the ECT testing proceedure.  A faulty ECT will not always set a code.

ALSO LOOK AT THESE:

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/Idle-TPSadjustment_Revised_June2005.html

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/eec.htm

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/In_Car_Codes/In-CarCodes.htm

THESE ARE ALL OF THE RESOURCES YOU NEED.

People tend to complicate things WAY too much.

And just for the record, My vote is for your TPS to be way out of range, or a combination of that and the ECT

Hey Birdman, yes...you. I don't know if you got my Private Message or not, as I sent it out quite some time ago, but I was wondering if you still have those pictures you took of your Black Turbo about a year ago?

(I agree with keeping things simple by the way. I love KISS'ing things)

LOL I didnt even see I had a PM untill you pointed it out!!  I'll get them to you ASAp!

ill play Pete for now,, since the ect test procedure is in my DIY link:D

ECT sensor test
Resistance test pin to pin of the sensor (this is a variable resister proportional to temperature

including outside air temp if the motor is cold)
at 50degF=58K ohms
at 65degF=40K ohms
at 180degF=3.6K ohms
at 220degF=1.8K ohms

Sorry guys I missed the question about pics of my mityvac hand pump.  here is a link to the compnay site. http://www.mityvac.com/  The first page has a pic of the one I have.