Ok, just trying out the new membership. Supposed to be working now, so here goes ......
welcome!!! post some pics of ur bird!
Went lookin around on the hd for some, and apparently have pulled them off. Got one of it from a few years ago right after my son and I cleaned the old girl up. Unfortunately, the clear coat's a goner on it now. A side photo still looks good, tho, as long as I don't show the top of the hood.
She's still all factory.
Got a strange problem with it, though, and have been chasing it for years. After it warms up, sometimes it'll act like the injectors are shutting off under light throttle. It never stalls when this happens, and it only happens in city driving. Get her out on the highway, and the temp climbs a little, and she purrs like a kitten all day at 80 mph. Slow back down in city traffic, and the hesitation starts again. I haven't started replacing any sensors yet, because I'm getting no codes from the EEC, whatsoever. The O2's are most certainly due, considering they've NEVER been replaced. I just shudder every time I look at the one on the right manifold. Albeit, I went 110K on the single HEGO in my truck. These are EGO's, though, so I dunno. This problem started when the car had about 40K on it, with the original motor. That, and some intake/timing cover leaks and my lack of time prompted me to take it to a local mechanic around 60K. BIG MISTAKE. He left a rag under the intake, and the cam got hungry. Lint starved the oil pump, and the rest is history. Had a long block and new timing cover put in it by a dealership August, '04, after letting it sit for nearly 5 years. Again, big mistake. This past Christmas weekend, I wound up pulling the timing cover again, to repair coolant leaks from a rather shoddy installation. Don't even get me started on the blown up speedo, stereo, and alternator, which were ALL working fine when I DROVE it to the dealership for the engine.
I begin to wonder if somewhere along the way when it was in a garage or being serviced somewhere, if someone didn't manage to cross the ACT and ECT connectors. They're side by side on the 3.8, and the plugs are identical, best I can tell. What I really need is some wiring diagrams for the electronics on this thing. The Haynes manual is USELESS for this stuff. Pretty handy for some of the major mechanical work, though. I have no idea what kind of effect a swapped ACT/ECT connection would have. All I do know is the problem is VERY intermittent, and real PITA in traffic. Some days, it doesn't miss a beat. Other days, I wanna find a very high cliff for it. Fortunately, in Alabama, we don't have high cliffs.
I'll try to get some new pics soon. I'll avoid the front bumper cover too. Wile E. Coyote mistook my T-Bird for a RoadRunner. I hit the coyote doing 80 on the interstate, and went OVER him. Bent the radiator support a little, and pretty much shredded the underside of the bumper cover, but otherwise, the old bird fared well. The neighbor's Rottie would bow up and start growling every time he got near the car for about 6 weeks, LOL. A large persuasion stick and a comealong tied to a large oak tree fixed the radiator support.
Also wanna see if there's some good sources for aftermarket ground effects, wheels, etc, still available for the old girl. I plan on getting a mini-van for Mrs. Paint and the tribe, and the duck will become my project car. Will probably sell off the VW to help finance the mods to the Bird. First things first, needs a ler. I plan on keeping the 3.8 quiet because nothing sounds worse to me than a 6 banger trying to sound like a V8. Mufler's got a hole I can stick my fist in. It's only 21 years old. They just don't make stuff like they used to.
got get a spray can of Sea Foam and a pour can. run the pour can though a tank of gas to clean up build-up and then after you have ran that whole tanks of gas though that the TPS sensor off an clean it out with the spray can of Sea foam. worked good for me, then i broke my MAP sensor vac hose that was all cracked up and now i have no problems with hesitation.
Could be something else but thats what worked for me. Your car could be total different.
as for ground effect. good luck with that. i think almost every newbie ask about that, i know that was on of my first post. they don't produce them anymore, at least not in large number for everyone to know about. you might be able to find a used kit but thats just as hard.
Wheels- 79-93 Stang. 17 is the biggest without to much work for them to fit. and 8 wide is a right in but you can go bigger.
Overall the "aftermarket" for our cars is nothing, we must borrow things from other cars, mostly the Mustangs.
Pics are a must soon.
you going to re- paint it? any ideas.
now that i think about it this should get moved to the lounge. or general
From the '84 EVTSM:
The ECT has a light green with yellow stripe wire and goes to pin 7 of the EEC.
The ACT has a light green with purple stripe wire and goes to pin 25 of the EEC.
They both have a black with white stripe wire.
welcome to the group
Welcome and we definitely need pics and we need to know where abouts your from :flip:
Welcome!
Thanks for all the flowers guys.
I'm from Alabama, born and bred. But, I ain't no ordinary redneck. I'm some people's worst nightmare. I'm a redneck with an education, hehehehehe.
Still workin on the pics, I know I have some somewhere, albeit, they were taken with my old camera, and will probably be low res.
As far as build-up in the TB is concerned, can't see any from the top with the butterflies wide open. Better not be any in the heads, they've only got 30K on them. The problem is definitely temperature related. I have to wonder if it's the EGO's. When the dealership installed the long block for me, they didn't even offer to change the EGO's while they had the engine out. (what better time to do it?). Then again, you should see the photos of their timing cover installation. It weren't pretty. I spent Xmas weekend tearing the front off the engine and putting a new timing cover gasket set on it. I figured when I poured the 15th gallon of coolant in it in 28 months, it was getting a bit much. I'll have to say one gallon of it was a blown heater hose. The rest was just leaks left by the dealership, and mostly the timing cover.
The biggest driveability issue is when the temp is hovering around the magic number for closed loop control (about 170 deg.?). I think it's when the EEC is switching from open loop to closed loop that it gets a bit asthmatic. Put a brand new radiator in it about 2 months ago, and a new fan clutch went on in '05 after a lock-up, so there's no problem keeping it cool. Possibly keeping it a little too cool so that the t-stat keeps closing and the temp keeps dropping below closed loop temp on the ECT. T'stat is 195 degrees (new as of Xmas weekend). When I first crank it, no worries. While I'm driving at interstate speed, no problems. It's just the city driving and puttering about that makes it downright dangerous to try to trust it to go when it's time to. It idles like a dream, so this kinda makes me feel it's TPS related, and probably a combination of problems. Some days, it runs like a top. Others, well, I won't use that kind of language in here.
I know it isn't an internal engine issue, because the problem hasn't changed at all since the longblock install. Obviously, I reset the timing when I put the timing cover gasket set on, because I had to pull the dizzy. (which is a whole other minor problem). The timing chain had a little more slack than I like to see in one, but like I said, this engine only has 28K on it. I'm assuming (bad idea, I know) that the dealership put a new chain on, or that the long block came with a new chain. I could be way off there, though. But, even if it didn't, the chain that was on the old engine only had about 10K on it. The installation of the chain on the original engine is what triggered the long block installation after the mechanic left the souvenir shop rag under the intake.
I've had the EGR plate off for cleaning before, and it was SEVERELY caked up with carbon/ash, as well as a lot of burning and erosion of the insulating spacer. It's probably the city driving doing this, because the car never really gets up to a good hot operating temperature. I think the car had about 50K on it when I did that. Maybe time to have a look at that again, but that shouldn't make it run weird at a specific temperature. That should make it run weird all the time if there's a vacuum leak. Looks like a good seal around the base (can still see the Permatex I used to seal it), but that doesn't necesssarily mean it is sealed. Vacuum looks good, though.
All the sensors are original, and it's possible one was flaky a long time ago. Not bad enough to throw a code, but bad enough with temperature to cause some weird operating issues. I'm sure it's time for new O2's (about 90K mostly city miles on these), and I may as well replace the TPS/ECT/ACT since they are so easy to get to. Setting up a TPS on the 5.0 in my truck is easy, but with the external IAM on the CFI instead of IAC, gonna need to study a little more for adjusting that.
Oh yeah, I was wrong. There is a difference in the connectors for the ACT and ECT. They cannot be plugged in wrong. The orientation of the square corner on the connector is different on each with respect to the pins.
Well, I gotta go to Hotlanta this morning, so better get my knees in the breeze.
What part of Alabama are you from?
I'm not exactly sure what inputs the EEC uses to determine when to go to closed loop, but as far as the temperature is concerned, it is far below 170 degrees (120 deg?). Also, a locked fan clutch won't overcool your engine unless the thermostat is bad.
Your O2 sensors are most likely due for a replacement even if they aren't throwing codes. Let me know if you discover any tips for removing the passenger side EGO. ;)
I wouldn't replace TPS/ECT/ACT unless they test out as faulty. They're all pretty easy to test.
There is no need to "set up" the TPS. Just slap it on and run a KOEO test. If nothing no TPS codes show up, you're golden.
According to everything I've read, it's supposed to be around 160 or so, but you may have read something I haven't. Open Loop to Closed Loop transition is based on temperature only from what I've read, but like I said, you may have read something I haven't.
You're right, the locked fan won't over cool it. But it WILL make a HORRIBLE noise on the interstate, KILL the little power the 3.8 has, and slurp up a LOT of dead dinosaurs. I wasn't sure if the fan was pulling the car or if the transmission was pushing it.
Umm, hinting they might need replacing was sort of my way of fishing for someone to enlighten me about pulling the passenger side EGO, LOL. EVERYTHING on the passenger side is a major PITA to get to. I changed plugs in it at 50,000, and swore I'd never attempt that again. But now, here I sit mechanicless, with little option next time it needs plugs. I'm thinking something along the lines of disconnecting the engine and tranny mounts, and jack up the right side of the engine. Gotta watch the left side mount though. I've got the modified mount with the mechanical stop in it (had to replace them at 11,000 miles, no warranty b/c not internally lubricated part). Anyone else with ideas?
I checked fuel mileage on it today after a trip to Atlanta and back. 19.5 mpg with about half and half city/highway mileage. I think the old girl still gets about 23 mpg highway. I drove 140 miles after filling up today, and it's still about 3/4 full. AND, all my coolant is still there after a 400 mile round trip at 75 mph. HOOORAAAYYYY!
This problem is VERY intermittent. Once I get above 55, it usually planes out and runs smooth as silk, even if it is in it's stumbling mode. Today, though, as long as I held it to 75, smoooooooth. If I kicked off the cruise, and let it coast a bit, when I started to accelerate again, it would miss horribly for a while, then straighten back out again. Coming back, it ran horrible again, and during one of the coasts, I popped it into Neutral, and kicked it to WOT a few times, then it ran like a charm the rest of the way home. This is kinda pointing at contamination in the TPS causing the wiper to lose contact with small movements (light throttle changes). If I let up just a bit, it'll pick back up, then start stumbling again. Like I said, though, I can chop throttle (let it snap shut) and it idles perfectly. I did notice some missing at idle today, though, more of a loping like one side might be a little lean. That would sort of point at confused signals to the injector on one side. (One EGO dirtier than the other?)
Gonna have to order the TPS. No one locally seems to have it. I don't want to go to a dealer :shakeass:for it if I can avoid it. They've raped me enough in the past two years. Every time I pass a Ford dealership now, I start getting sphincter spasms and a very heavy right foot.
I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think the Probst books insinuate the open/closed loop transition is based on a combination of a timer, EGO cross-counts, and coolant temperature. I've seen logs from Tweecer RTs, and all the cars go into closed loop far below 170 degrees.
The passenger side plugs can take a while at first, but after a few times you'll be able to breeze through it in 15 minutes.
I had the O2s changed on my car several years ago. They ended up doing just what you're planning to. The only problem was they kinked my dang exhaust pipe right before the main cat. and opened up a nice big hole.
I think it can be removed with just a U-joint and some extensions, but I have't been brave enough to try yet.
rockauto.com FTW.
There you have it, you HAVE read something I haven't. I started to pick up the Probst book in Barnes and Noble a couple weeks ago. Now that I've actually found someone that's read it or had it in their possession at some time, is it worth the price ($34 if I remember right)?
A hole in the exhaust wouldn't be a new thing for me, LOL. The ORIGINAL ler finally gave out on it after 21 years. Looks like it's got termites, and a huge hole in the bottom. But, I'll take that kinked Y pipe under advisp00get, and loosen the Y pipe at the manifolds too. Gonna have to figure out a way to get some PB Blaster in there anyway, so might as well shoot the bolts too. The only thing I use a 3/8 drive or smaller U-Joint on for tools is small bolts that are very lighly torqued and NOT rusted. I've broken too many of those things and left too much skin from my knuckles in various places that it doesn't normally belong. Advance Auto sells O2 Sensor sockets that are relieved on one side. I'm not real sure about the strength of these things, though, having one side totally missing. The last thing I want to do is round the flats off. I'm the OO on this car, and to my knowledge, they have NEVER been out. I'll start with the left side to see what to expect on the passenger side. Hopefully I can get 'em out.
Birmingham area. Actually, grew up in LA (Lower Alabama), down in Washington County. Now, I live in Shelby County.
Update:
Replaced the TPS, and nope, that wasn't it. Get a little better throttle response now when it's running right, but still got that nagging surge on light throttle. I may pull the kick panel today and see if the original EEC is still there, and get the numbers off it while I'm there. After my alternator, speedo cluster, OE stereo and a few other things in the dash mysteriously died during the long-block installation, this could prove to be an interesting find. If it ain't the original EEC, then that will be proof positive the dealer hooked up the battery backward, ate the cost of the EEC, and tried to hide the reason for the failures in a car with no engine in it. The digital camera will be close at hand when I pull the kick panel off, for sure.
Isn't there a date code embedded in the model numbers for the EEC's? Anything newer than 11/86 in there, and a dealer's got some big troubles coming.
Try disconnecting and plugging the vacuum hose to the EGR.
I actually thought about doing the same thing I did to the F-150 while hunting vacuum leaks. I cut the side out of a soup can, and just capped off the EGR for a while. It won't hurt anything except the highway mileage a little. It isn't being driven on the highway much for now anyway. It's still got the original ECT and ACT sensors too. Would be willing to bet the ACT is covered in gunk. Was on the F-150. Didn't really change the way the F-150 ran (had a very serious vacuum leak at the plenum). Just gave me a warm fuzzy knowing it had a new one. MAP sensor's still original too. Not real sure how those things work, but gotta be a diaphragm involved in there some where. I know the one on my F-150 is actually a frequency output. Is it the same on the MAP for the '86 Bird? Some of the info I've seen suggests an buttstuffog signal from the MAP. I have a vacuum pump I can test it with, so I may do that too.