PICS soon!!!! maybe later tonight
it actually begun monday this week. its finally torn down as of 10 minutes ago. to where the old cam is out, ready to put the new one in. (THANK GOD no nick marks on any bearings or anything, i was SO afraid id pull it out wrong)
i made all kinds of marks on the balancer and block and timing cover and brackets nearby so i know where the balancer, dizzy (haha i love that, first time using it) are supposed to be etc.
what do i do with the new cam? how do i put it in? theres the dowel pin and that line going all the way across that looks like sharpie marker kinda (but obviosuly is machining work) on both cams, and i used the line to mark with a sharpie where it was on the cam retaining plate. how much do i turn it (or do i not?) to account for the new firing order? placing both cams beside each other with the lines both parallel shows some but not all lobes in completely different places.
besides this all has gone good so far. just waiting for the headers, should come next week. :cool:
Good work so far.the lobes are different which is why the firing order is different.Did you start at TDC?I always do to keep my cam and crank lined up.Keep it up.You'll love it.Pics soon?Please?LOL.
Sounds like you're off to a good start! I have a question....Are you planning on doing anything to the transmission? The reason I ask is due to the fact that the AOD's equipped in cars with SO 5.0 motors have the governor that shifts at WOT at 46-4800 rpm's as opposed to the HO variety which have one that lets it go to 5000-5200 RPM (the governor in the TransGo kit will go 500 or so more RPM than the HO, but it's not recommended to be used without the full shift kit). Also, do you plan on changing the rear end ratio or adding a higher RPM stall convertor in the future?
The reason I ask all this is it may haave bearing on if you want to install the cam straight up or advance it a couple of degrees for more power lower in the RPM range. If you plan to keep everything els factory stock you may want to consider advancing the cam 2 or maybe even 4 degrees. On many aftermarket cams it will make for a difference. I'm not entirely sure if you'd even notice it with the stock HO cam which is why I say consider it as opposed to recommending for you to do it. If anybody else can chime in on whether it makes a noticeable difference with the stock cam please feel free to tell me, err us.
well actually a lot of them i realized were just for me in case i get confused on the rebuild lol but ill post em anyway!
more...................
rest of em.
the last 2 are of my little solution to the problem i encountered of no way to keep the engine in place while i undid the balancer bolt!
ive read a bit about what i can do to the tranny.
i would LOVE to get a 2400ish stall converter as everyone says, 3.55 or 3.73 gears and a shift kit....
but that depends very much on funds. this cost me about $650 which is a lot. i am now a college student and mom reprimanded me quite a bit in the planning stages of this, deeming it "wasteful and silly"
maybe this summer again depending on funds i might do those driveline upgrades. but definitely not for several months at least. maybe not this year at all. i mean i have looked on ebay and found some well under $200 torque converters by companies like "Alabama Torque Converter" and "Oregon Performance: got no idea of the quality of these! but there are others that are $300 or even $400!!!! unbelieveable. and i think shift kits go for ;ike $120 right?
ive also found deals on gearsets for like $20 or $30 so if i found that, closer to $100 on a converter and maybe even a deal on a kit on ebay it would be more likely but in terms of your suggestion on the timing lets say "no", i will not be upgrading the driveline.
oh and im sorry but im gonna need a little more in-depth guide as to installing this cam. im guessing i didnt "start at TDC". which piston? does it matter which stroke it's on? what else must i do? aka i need a list of EVERYTHING i must consider; everything that to you guys, is second nature, because for me it's those things are completely unknown. "cam install with a change in firing order for dummies essentially" lol
Nice! Looks all too familiar! I wouldn't worry about mechanicly advancing the cam when you put it in though. Used to be they'd retard them at the factory for better bottom end drivability and emissions. In an EFI they use sensors for that so it's no longer an issue, but if you do advance it your gains will ALL be up high in the RPMs, just don't go more than 4 degrees. So, are you goin' to mass air, or staying SD? I have one of each and can't tell a difference, all things being equal, that is. But now my mass air car has a few more upgrades- E303 cam + Ford racing aluminum Y303 heads, so it's a little quicker than the SD. Good luck, keep us updated.
okay but i cant just throw it in, turned some random angle. it has to match up to the current stroke and piston in the firing order that the engine has stopped on right now correct? how do i find that out?
EASY- the dowel pin on the front of the cam where the gear goes on lines it up in the bore of the Timing gear. Rotate the crank so that #1 piston is at top dead center. Install your cranks timing gear ( lining up the correct keyway in the gear for the desired advance you want-if there are multiple keyways they'll be labled as to degree of advance- stock is 0). Now just rotate the cam until the timing mark on the gear lines up- dead nuts- with the mark on the timing gear for the crank. The crank's should be at the 12 o'clock position, the cam's at the 6. Use a 6" steel ruler for accuracy. Then remove both gears, put the chain on'em and work them onto their corresponding shaft fits again. This will get you as close as possible without using a degree wheel, which if you're not buildin' a race motor-you don't need.
Hope that helps, if not I'll get extra detailed, but it ain't hard. That "SHARPIE" line you spoke of is an oiling groove for the thrust washer. Also, you can pick up a B&M shift improver kit for under $60, and put it in yourself easily if you have a drill. The choices will be RV towing, & street/strip, go street strip.PS- I hope you got a new Timing set, since they go for like $50-$60, and it'll never be more convenient to do it! Oh, just thought of somethin' I didn't mention above, to find TDC of #1 quickly, just slide your balancer back on the crank till the keyway is engaged, then rotate 'till "0" on the dampener lines up with your pointer on the block, make sure it's 0, not 10!
yup i got a new timing chain, i was told i should probably do that. and WOW, the timing chain had some slack!!! about 3/4 of an inch! amazing. glad i bought the new chain!
oh and thanks for the walkthrough! very helpful, now i know what im doing! :headbang:
Good, cuz I just looked at an old Timing set that was factory original and the marks are all gone!-worn off by the chain. BTW- that's an enormous amount of slack- I bet it pinged when you mashed it-at least at first! Make sure you use assy. lube ( love that abreviation!)- on all the lobes and break in the engine with regular mineral oil- not synthetic, "cause the synth. won't mix with the lube, as the mineral oil has natural solvents in it that will break down and absorb the lube, where as the synth. will just chunk it up. good luck, & you'll notice a definate improvement, especially in the upper RPMs-where our cars usually flatten out and just make noise.
When you install the headers, what will you do about the O2 sensors? When I was planning on the HO conversion with my old '88 (which never happened), I bought this extension kit for the O2 sensors and never used it.
If I can find it, you can have it for cheap (if you can use it).
Just as a note of caution before you put the distributor back in make sure you turn the rotor to where it should be after you have turned the engine over it wont be going back in the same postition as you took it out.
OR If you havent already rolled the engine over you could put the dist. back in before you put it at TDC and mark it there to ensure its reinstalled properly. its not fun having to pull the dist. to move it a tooth at a time i can tell you that much from personal experience:pbb:
alright great tips everyone thanks!
cragar,
my o/r h-pipe has a threaded hole for an O2 sensor so thats taken care of.
unfortunately im now at a halt again. i cant get the dowel pin out of the old cam. i even put a lot of duct tape around it and used pliers but it wont budge. can i get a new one at an auto parts store or i would i need to go to the likes of a machine shop or something similar to get that?
other than that the cam is lubed up and ready to go back in, kicking off the second half of this--throwing it all back together.
and NO actually it didnt ping! the engine actually ran very smoothly and had good smooth power (well relative to a geo metro i guess :giggle: )
im really looking forward to having more oomph up high, ill never forget testing the 0-60 with the G-Tech, with the thing seeming to just CRAWL from about 50 to 60 mph and then of course the resulting 9.48 seconds
i dont remember. will i still have a decent amount down low? all i know is that the hp goes to 225 and torque to 300 but no idea when that happens!
Bottom end will still be there, but if you can grab up an 8.8 outta T-bo coupe It'll be better! About that dowel pin...The cams I've got came with their own pre-installed...? but you can always just get a piece of TGP ( turned ground polished) round stock that diameter at a metal yard or possibly even like a lowes or somethin'. Maybe a parts store would even have it. You can also try heating up the metal around the pin and try pulling it like that, don't heat directly on the pin, heat around it to swell the bore it's seated in. PS- I'll go to the garage right now & if I can find one I'll mail it to you for $50........................Nah, just kiddin' If I've got 1 you can have it, but my garages are pretty messy.I'll let you know.
Well, I found one still in a cam, but since I'm outta gas in my torches I can't heat it up to try & get it- Gonna get gas after the holiday. The pin diameter is .312" = 5/16, & I know the Lowes here has some. I did smell ( since I tried a lighter) what seemed to be loctite on the pin so heat otta do it. Sux that cam didn't come with one though.Probably like to get this done over X-mas break, huh? About what...I forget who said it...that other guy said about your distributor just line your rotor up with the # 1 on the cap & note where that is in relation to the 2 spring clips that hold the cap on and install it so the rotor winds up there. Though you will probably have to start feeding it in the hole with the rotor 30-45 degrees counterclockwise from there since the gear is helical and the shaft will rotate as you mesh the teeth and push it in. This will be close enough to start the vehicle and then immediately Time it with a light.-no big deal.
Gotta disagree on that............
For more see here........http://www.camcraftcams.com/camshafttuning.htm
okay well i think i'll leave the cam alone lol.
actually my relatives came to our house this year for christmas eve, and my uncle said the same thing--try heating it the shaft, obviously not the dowel, up! so i think ill do that. got a propane torch, so im sure i can get it hot enough.
thanks a lot for all the advice guys! MAN i cant wait to get this thing running. most of all i gotta admit i cant wait to hear the difference with this mandrel bent h-pipe, headers, and loud old 2 chamber flowmasters! my cousin whos 21 and was also here tonight (son of aforementioned uncle) has a 99 ish dodge 1500 and a straight pipe exhaust (from cat back), the 360 engine and its SO loud! i love it so much, ive been so jealous!!! and these s have dumps welded on em too! now everyone on the street will know this landbarge can deal it out too! i am just giddy.:screwy::tg: :headbang: :cougarsmily:
Keep up the progress reports !!!
oh WOOPS! lol
alright well the past couple days i havent gotten shiat done. well granted thats largely due to christmas. but, i also couldnt get that dowel pin outta the cam. heated it up though, clamped the dowel in my vice (has soft copper plates) and yanked and turned, and it popped right out!
went easily into the new one yesterday, cam went in just fine, then i tried to put the timing chain and gear on. *sigh* dont know why i didnt inspect it/realize this sooner, but the chain i got from advance auto is like two bicycle chains right next to each other, divided in the middle! meant for a split gear or something???? needless to say it didnt fit. so i returned it last night, they couldnt come up with anything else, the item pic in their comp didnt show a top down view.....
so im goin to napa today, maybe theyll know what theyre doing :disappoin
and thats all! didnt get far yesterday. well i guess its important--put the new injectors into the lower intake, sed the intake-to-head gaskets off of it, so its ready for re-installation.
hopefully today will be much more productive!
.............:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead
You got what you asked for a roller chain for the HO(all are roller), the SO has a different setup... I'd get the gears to match that chain as well... They are available from Jegs or Summit as a set...
d'oh!!! well my bad! guess its another thing ive learned during this! i just automatically assumed they were both the same. do you know why they had two different setups for each engine?
well a [detailed] update anyway.
been busy workin on it. gotta go to bed real tired. all together except for egr spacer and tb and dizzy, dizzy cap and wires. gotta put the computer in. worked on exhaust this evening. Problems. guess where? yup, SHIFT LINKAGE. (column shift) :beatyoass: find out in the morning how The Stupidest Mod Ever Witnessed By Man® barely saved the future of Paul's H-pipe, and thusly, Paul's ass.
PICS will be up too, dont worry. id like to think it will be running tomorrow but who knows. this week for sure. then hopefully a video...
im gonna steal your car:beatyoass: :grinno:
okay ill get pics and stuff up soon, im real lazy about that stuff i just cant help it!!!:sorry: lol
but more importantly this afternoon i got it all together and tried to start it. didnt go. im going to describe what i heard. imagine cranking the car but you pulled the coil wire. so just the constant speed that the stock starter (i dont have a ministarter) spins it with a good battery and no assistance from any combustion. now everyone should know the song "Green Sally Up", right? okay take the beat from that song (so like almost once a second, like 3/4 of a second or so) and to the beat of that song, theres a tiny burst of "firing" if any fuel was indeed burning, anyway, on each beat.
so i checked my timing first of all. what do you know? LIFE LESSON: pull the spark plug and be sure you're at TDC for compression stroke!!! i moved it to TDC with a breaker bar, checked, piston was at the top, and the rotor was pointing completely in the opposite direction from the #1 plug wire. so i was "180 degrees out of time" right? so i fixed that, and now it just cranks normally as if you pulled the coil wire and it NOTHING else, bone stock untouched car, hood never been opened, brand new car, you just pulled the coil wire.
i sprayed a little bit of carb cleaner in the intake, nothing. sprapyed a little more, BANG! backfire out the intake. nothing violent, just a poof of smoke and a noise almost as loud as a snapper thingy you throw on the ground. doesnt that sometimes indicate valve timing is out of whack? but then i reassured myself of the fail-proof dot-to-dot thing with the crank and cam gears which i made completely sure i did right while i installed it, and physically looked at what position the cams were in for the valves of piston 1 and it made perfect sense. both valves closed, exhaust about to open fairly soon once piston reaches bottom of stroke
i think the computer is indeed the problem. opinions? the #1 plug, when i pulled it, was dry. shouldnt it be wet IF the injectors are feeding fuel properly? thats what you always check for with an engine right? "you got spark?" "is the plug wet?" etc.....
Eric, you did say the chance of it even starting with a mass air computer was very small so that and everything else seems to point to the computer. Might as well bring it back and try to get the right one again! No way to know but to put in the right one for sure.
I gathered up a Mustang and Mark VII computers before I swapped the H.O engine into my car.Here's what I was told....They are identical in every way (Speed Density) except for one,the Mark VII has a speed limiter built in,the Mustang doesn't,so,I'm running the Mustang computer.Speed Density Mustang computers usually sell pretty cheap on E-bay.If you ask people on E-Bay who are parting out Mark VII's to sell the computer to you,they usually will for a very cheap price.
One question,I did the complete H.O engine swap in my car,not the upgrade.BUT,in my project car,I'm going to do the upgrade.How did you move the A/C equipment in front of the radiator without opening the system (or is it possible?)?
sure is!!!!
just unbolt the top supports that hold the a/c condenser down, pull it out (meaning pull it towards the engine) and swing it up to your left (the passenger side of the car).
look back at the pics i posted. it will end up like that. there are flexible rubber hoses on both the input and output lines of the condenser, as well as those weird connectors like the fuel line connectors. dont know what theyre called but theyre cool. they hold tight and can be rotated, which is essential in swinging the condenser up. what a godsend.
i would not have performed this if the a/c system had to be bled LOL no way jose
I've got all the parts for my HO conversion except for the timing chain and gaskets. I even have a set of 3.27 gears for the rear end. But I got all the parts off of ebay for ~$200, with the heads using the bulk of it (cause of shipping, but still good price in the end). So what exactly is this shift kit everyone recommends? I have the AOD floor shift.
shift kits modify your tranny's shift patterns so the bands and clutches bite down harder and quicker, so your shifts firm up and wear down the material on them less. they also change shifts points to more optimal RPMs
just a word of advise and trying to save you some money. wait till you get this bad boy runnig and driving again. see how your AOD likes this "new" power thrown at it. if it's fine. no slipage weird shifts. or just weird. then i would say save for the converter and shift kit. if it starts messing up even a littlle. just save for a good rebuilt AOD. performance automattic make a really good street trans and hold up to 350 hp for the aod. and plenty for a mild street car and they do all the hard work of a shift kit for you.
good luck and enjoy
Hey Zonda,thanks for the a/c tip.
vinnie--
no problem, enjoy!
Coupe88--
il certainly consider that, again id love to have those things so that plays a part too.
okay guys check out The Stupidest Mod Ever Witnessed By Man® !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as well as my lengthening of the O2 sensor wires, very proud of my soldering job and wrapping the wires in electrical tape. didnt have enough heat-shrink :hick:
next my summit h-pipe (WOW it seems really strong and well put together, and those mandrel bends look SO much nicer!) and 8 yr old 2-chamber flowmasters, with flowtubes bought for $60 total, and i didnt have to modify em at all! shockingly, the flowtubes were plenty long enough
and then the near-finished engine bay.
the bay, and then a pic i took this morning, figured id post it all finished too! anyone who read my other thread about the computer will know that i am *officially* finished, but im waiting on a computer from NAPA, after the one from Advance Auto Hole not working. (ive always wanted to post "Autohole" like everyone else but I dont go there so thatll have to do!!!! :rollin:
problem is, im to wait until Weds. night 8:15. :disappoin so hold on guys, i gotta too! the suspense will kill me i swear. hopefully ill get a video or a soundbite up on putfile or something for yall!
good job man you got it all back together b4 ur deadline. im sure youl be happy when you hear it run again. but maybe you should have painter that upper intake bc it's rough looking. but looks dont matter as much as getting it to run. but you could try some fine steel wool ive found that helps clean the intake alot. (it did on mine anyway)
yeah thats how it came from the guy i bought it from...wasnt too happy with the looks either. steel wool wont hurt it/scratch the paint off? cuz ill definitely do that sometime, id like it to be all nice and shiny like other's UI's.
but yeah more important is that it works! and i want every HP i can get, so i didnt really want to keep the old UI even though it looked great. and i took out the air filter baffle/silencer/whatever out of the fender well too.:giggle:
PAUL, what I was talkin' about was the keyways in the crank sprocket...retard the crank/advance the crank...retard crank = advance to cam and visa versa...so to advance this sprocket = retarded timing = all upper end. Sorry I didn't clarify.And YES if you advance the timing via retarding the crank the gains are in the lower R's.
you have to use the fine steel wool you wont go threw the powder coat with fine. you have to really go at it to mess that up . some simple green or simalr cleaner maybe even some kitchen tilex stuff. i donno try the wool first
hey i just noticed you didnt get the mustang valve covers . way beter than the stock cougars. oh well small details that again mean nothing in hp. so you gotta do what you got to do
WHOA haha totally outta left field! i actually
do not have more than one key way in my crank nor my crank sprocket. so i put it on and just did "dot-to-dot" obviously but there were no other positions for me to use. im just fine with stock anyway--i prolly mess around with ignition timing, hell i wouldnt mind throwing 93 octane in this thing! :cool: i dont drive the bloody thing enough to have to worry about gas mileage. i want every pony i can get as i said.
does anyone know *approximately i dont expect perfect figures* how much hp/tq i might gain from advancing the timing a couple degrees (isnt that about how much you can and then even on 93 if you go anymore it will ping right?)
Coupe--
okay ill try that sometime!
never even thought of getting mustang valve covers. sounds like a good idea though! i could snag a pair sometime.
The valve covers are on E-bay all the time for $10 or $15.I have a second set coming ($15.00 shipped) that I'm going to polish and install.I still have to polish the Mustang upper like I did with my Explorer intake.After I polished it,it doesn't look "Explorer" anymore,it just looks aftermarket.Sweet.
UH-OH!!!! you're bragging about something you did that *cough*probably LOOKS COOL*cough*
i dont even think i need to say it, you know what you gotta do...
yep. oh and it turns out i WAS, way back when i first assembled the thing, "on time"!!!! i forgot the fact that i cant see the valves and assumed hastily that i was at TDC on piston 1 and so the rotor being 180deg off "oh it must be wrong!!" so i set that back, spray in some carb cleaner, starts right up, sounds great for a split second then dies.
it seems like the injectors arent firing. small screwdriver and a catch cup combined with the schrader valve confirms pressure in the lines. i clicked the pump probably 10 times so it better be!
any ideas? the computer from NAPA only has the code on the port, and its a speed-dens. code alright. a "DA1" unit, and unfortunately A1B though at the end of the long code, so looks like i got an auto tranny one but thats fine too.
should i pull codes? can i rent a "code-puller" i know some people here have used a voltmeter? tutorial? or a linky if thats a lot easier and its been covered before?
thanks guys for your support so far. shes almost there! sure were some great second-long-intervals when she ran on the carb cleaner. sounded good too, not stumbly, car didnt shake or anything.
EDIT---jeez i dunno why i didnt search first. guys, please do post your suggestions if they differ from the following: i searched "injectors" and found a thread, same problem as mine, and saw "check your TPS, can send it in to dechoke mode and shut off injectors" and "check voltage at injectors, should be this blah blah....."
so ill try that stuff tomorrow. no idea of the condition of the TPS, got it from a guy on the corral, he said the car ran. we'll see whats up.
I wish you luck on the problem you're having.How's the fuel pressure regulator?Just a thought.I hope to get the H.O conversion started very soon (weather permitting).It'll probably be a couple of months to be realistic.No big deal,I still have #1 to drive.I sat at the dining room table and installed new o-rings,caps,and screens in my 19# injectors for the project car.One step closer I suppose.I'll just spend the winter days looking for parts and waiting.Again,good luck.
thanks, vin!
update---
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=8208&highlight=injectors
that was the thread i found. i checked everything TurboCoupe50 and jcassity mentioned. all was fine with the TPS.
but the injector's white wire shows like .002 yes .002 volts, the red one 11.83 (battery was a little low im charging it back up now. the battery was 11.96 volts)
this is with one lead of the voltmeter on a grounding post, the other on the injector contact. is this the way to do it? each lead on one of the two injector contacts shows nothing, no voltage across em.
i pulled off the "pepper shaker" lol, so for the pass. side harness. i left the one lead connected to the white injector wire (i was using the one for cyl. #1 BTW) and touched the other to each of the round pr0ngs in the male plug of the "pepper shaker", and only the one in the rear of the engine bay (when the plug is oriented as it would be hooked onto that bracket that clips to the upper intake) made my voltmeter "beep!". for the red lead, all of the others, including the center one, made it beep. not sure what this means, but if thats the way is supposed to be my wiring harness isnt cut or corroded or something.
checked the fuel pressure reg. vac line, hooked up another small hose to it, blew into it, was able to move air, so thats not clogged or anything. this car also ran GREAT before this so how could the reg. suddenly go bad?
what else can i check?
EDIT---------------------------------
alrighty i found out on fordfuelinjection.com how to get codes. here are the tally marks i made. i made spaces for everywhere there was a significant pause (blinks were always like 1/2 second apart) (underscore = a space, the forum ignored my large spaces and considered them one space)
||___|___||___||||___||___|___||___||||___|___
||||||___|||___ |||||||___|||
which looks like it corresponds to 3 codes-- 21, 24, and finally 63.
on their site
21 - "ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts." has an "X" in all three columns, KOEO, CM, KOER
24 - "ACT sensor out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts." again "X" in all columns
63 - "TPS circuit below minimum 0.6 volts." this has "X" for KOEO
Also 63 - "TPS circuit has intermittently failed below minimum 0.6 volts." this has "X" for "CM"
for 63--that was the last code, i think in the CM part, as the guide describes, not in Key On Engine Off, the first codes that come up. so it sounds like it isnt the constant "below minimum of 0.6, just intermittent". great or terrible? id know if i understood the difference between those two possibilites.
i do have my old TPS. could i try that? apparently (from Coolcats) youre supposed to use a mustang TPS? this TPS came with the TB i bought.
but how about the Engine Coolant Temperature sensor and Air Charge Temperature sensor? my Haynes manual says they influence fuel control/mixture. so they could be causing no fuel to be input? what do i do? check the connections? replace them? they were never removed from the lower intake/tinkered with/anything during this process. only unplugged from the wiring harness.
I don't think it's the ACT.You don't think it's the computer do you?Just another wild guess.
well that would sure suck if i got shafted AGAIN wouldnt it?
theres no other sticker on the computer i got from NAPA, only the one on the port which proves to be a Speed Density computer. interestingly it looks like the old one, not painted glossy black like the one from advance auto.
are there ways to tell for sure if the computer is right/wrong?
jeez its like i need a neighbor or something with a speed density mustang so lend me his computer to try it with :giggle:
I'd loan you mine if you were closer.I am really wondering about the computer,though.
well ill keep that in mind! its always a possibility.
i kinda wish id tried this other stuff with the first new computer. just for shts and giggles.
I'm starting to guess the computer too. If the car ran fine before you started the swap the ECT and ACT shouldn't be bad. A screwed up TPS shouldn't cause the car not to start. Mine was fugged up and reading under .6V and the car still started, but it idled like ass. Unless you some how managed to short/cut a wire when you did the swap with the correct computer the car should start. If worse comes to worse go to a wreaking yard and pull the computer from a speed density Mustang or 88 up Mark VII and see if the car starts.
Take the computer back and try again.
Put your SO computer in. it will run like ass but it will run, that will let you know if its the ecu.
okay--
called my cousin up at his shop, his friend mark was in whos a real electronics guy.
he too suggested to run the SO comp. so i went back to NAPA gave em the computer, got myself back the SO and cash.
i put it in tonight. tried it. keep in mind i havent tried carb cleaner since like this morning.
didnt start but it really wanted to. there was that pattern again of it trying to fire, and one time when i shut the key back off just afterward i heard a lowly "PUHHHFFFF" through one of the flomaster dumps which must have been one cylinder firing.
i also had a talk with my uncle and i decided im heading up north for about a half hour, forty minutes to an auto parts store with a salv. yard, that i know has like 10 stangs. they said awhile back over the phone they had what i need.
but mom wanted me to get a new one cuz of my experience with the canadian guy on ebay....
has ANYONE here done this conversion with a new computer? my uncle talked to a friend of his tonight before talking to me who REALLY knows ford everything, including eec-iv. he said sometimes there is a "prom" (uncle doesnt know elec. stuff, thats what he said wayne told him) that is inside what looks like a "trapdoor" on the computer that often is not there when just buying a new unit straight out of the box like this.
it seems everyone here knows someone chucking their SD stang comp or does-it-ebay. so im going back to that. im getting one from a once RUNNING VEHICLE.
and then we'll see. my uncle mentioned the injectors. but they looked fine and FordTruckFreeek is a very upstanding member of this forum. i trust he gave me good injectors. and how the hell could ALL EIGHT be totally shot at once. i also need to try mark's other suggestion. but i dont think mom will be up to this one so well see--"have someone grip an injector and crank it. if its firing it will feel like a relay or something, you feel a "click" inside it as it acutates"
thanks again guys, for all your help!
the other Pauly
I'll sell you a great Mark VII computer if you get stuck for $40.00 shipped.I know it's good,I used it before I put the Stang computer in.
thanks for giving me another to fall back on!
right now i wanna see if i can get 'er goin' before i go back to school but if the computer still doesnt go well i will definitely fall back on this option. the one i can trust the most, incidentally, one from someone here who knows it will work for our cause :cougarsmily:
take this for what it is but i think its good news.
tied the throttle wide open for a day cuz i was fooling with the carb cleaner again. this morning i tried my old MAP sensor just to be 100% rock solid sure theres no issue with that because it HAS been changed right, and hey, you never know.
no difference between the 2 MAP sensors BUT (keep in mind throttle was opened overnight so NO extra cleaner fumes left, bone dry) even though she didnt run, she wanted to. there was a constant pattern of it trying to fire, speeding up the cranking for a split second like a couple nights ago. forgot to try gripping the injector, but i think theyre firing!!! it kept doing that for like 10 seconds, theres no way there could be enough carb cleaner left over!
sent vinnie the MO, so maybe ill have a computer by friday, mom will bring me home for the weekend and ill try 'er out! im real hopeful, i want so bad to hear the sound this exhaust setup is going to make. hope the week goes by fast.
if i got the time ill be postin up audio or video, im sure you guys would love that.
Your timing has to be off. Its nat advanced enough.
I came home for the weekend, swapped in his computer, didnt start. Decided to try something new just to verify it could run good--had mom crank it, and i sprayed carb cleaner (boy that hole in the throttle plate is nice!) and once it started i continued to spray, and interestingly enough, spraying full blast was enough for it to idle about where it should. then i stopped, and i guess the upper intake, etc is long enough that it took about 5 seconds (sprayed for like 10) to run out of cleaner and then die. but she sounded NICE. *sigh* if only it could keep doing that...
so i guess we're back to "no injectors firing". but then why would it sputter? that makes no sense to me (and yes it still sputtered with vin's computer, BEFORE carb cleaner.
i pulled the codes and got different ones this time.
still got 24, "ACT sensor out of self-test range blah blah......"
and then after the long pause and then the 1 blink and then pause, i got
11, "System pass!"
does this mean anything? its interesting how those other two just disappeared. although that was done with the computer from NAPA so who knows...
oh! EDIT---
had a lightbulb moment--decided to try "jumping" the injectors. i just hooked up two leads, one to each terminal of the injector, and touched em to the battery, "click!" tried this with 3 different injectors at the front of the engine (2 on pass side, one on drivers) that i can easily access, theyre all fine. (not that i didnt trust you FordTruckFreeek!) but i HAD to rule it out, partly because on several phone calls to my uncle he kept mentioning "well if you changed the injectors thats another variable, they could be bad"
so theyre not bad.
im thinking i need to check some grounds. FINALLY found a thread on the corral--http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=721775&highlight=voltage+injectors and people mention the different grounds. the guy actually ended up getting somewhere doing this. so im going to check mine.
http://www.corral.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5413585&postcount=94
im going to try that too first--manually grounding the white wire of those three, and all at the same time. that way for sure there will be some noise/shaking if theyre firing.
BTW id like an answer on this too if anyone knows.
theres a little tiny connector on the injector wiring harness, like the one that goes to the "oil pressure sender" according to this: http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangEngineHarness.gif link posted to everything there besides images/mustangEngineHarness.gif and it IS very useful nice stuff there. but anyway in that diagram its number 11, i noticed it when i was taking off the lower intake. it wasnt hooked up to anything and i cant find anything to hook it up to. the diagram says coolant temperature sender. but the ECT sensor is already there, doesnt that take care of this? im guessing this isnt relevant to my problem but im just curious.
you heard right guys. my troubles are over. essentially. (more on that later)
YEAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
man what a rush it was hearing her finally git goin!
i had enough little alligator clip leads (thanks dad!) to make connections from the red wires to their injector terminals on the 3 inj's that were accessible, and enough to ground them manually. she cranked for a sec and sputtered to life, on 3 cylinders!!! :hick:
so that was it.
then i felt stupid. take another look at that "engine harness" diagram. look at number 19, the last one...turns out that this wire was about 1.5 inches long, cut off. noticed it when taking everything apart. i have NO idea how i missed the rest of it falling off, because it could not have been missing the past couple years ive been driving this thing. i grounded this wire and she fired right up like it was nothing.
why is that thing labeled as the oxygen sensor ground? arent the oxygen sensor groundS the wires from the group of wires going to the o2 sensor, which branch off to one of the two bare metal rings you bolt onto each of the heads? if not what are these and why wouldnt the car run without this stupid tiny little SOB grounded?
now heres why i said "essentially" at the beginning of the post. my gas mileage has taken a dive and so has the power! :confused: :( normally cruising 30-35 mph on a flat road she'll turn between 25 and 30, maybe more MPG. 65 mph, about the same, though often 27 right on (like the EPA estimated!!!)
now it spends a lot of time around 16 MPG. im thinking o2 sensors? any way to test em? i did lengthen the wires, if you all recall, maybe the connection isnt good? how sensitive are they to that? i guess i could have mixed up the two black wires, im not gonna sit here and claim im perfect by any means.
well, at lest she's running. thats a huge weight off my shoulders, and very uplifting. the power/gas consumption issue will be for the next weekend im home from school, maybe next weekend, maybe the one after, if mom feels like it.:D
WOOHOO!!!!:cougarsmily: :cougarsmily: :cheers: :headbang:
nice...
....
.....
now, :pics-stfu:
of what??? lol
the exhaust coming out the tailpipe? the blurry belt and accessories?
maybe you mean VIDS/SOUNDS or stfu?
if that would happen to be the case, youll have to wait until that next time im home, sorry. gotta tape it then get it on the comp (nope we dont have a digi-videocam *yet*) but it'll come!
speaking of sounds, im gonna have to sell these 8 year old dumped 2 chamber flowmasters. what a mistake, though that guy gave me such a deal on em! they and the attached flowtubes and dumps are in great shape, but TOO LOUD!!! SOOOO much drone at like 1000-1200 rpm, everything slightly loose in my interior rattles and vibrates, and i cant hear what i want to hear--the famous flowmaster rumble as i take off. probably gonna go with a set of 40 series from ebay or something. with headers and without cats it still oughta make a nice presence but not be overwhelming. even Bon Scott cant drown it out completely.
Woo-Hoo !!! Happy Dance !!!! it's running !!!! After all that,the exhaust is easy to deal with.Glad to hear you're in business.
Sounds like you had quite the experience there. 40-series flowmaster lers are 2-chamber...if you put tail-pipes on it, it'll be like a whole different car...the dumps direct the sound at the ground which bounces right back up at your floor pans...cut off the dumps, weld (or clamp) on some tailpipes and you'll be set.
As far as your fuel mileage, you may want to try changing your fuel filter...my car sat for 2yrs before i did the HO swap and never thought to change the fuel filter...5mpg really sucked for awhile...new fuel filter and it made a huge difference.
Just an idea...have fun with your new found power...now it's time for some 3.73's :evilgrin:
Yippie it works!
I hope my HO swap goes better than yours :D
yeah come one you need some nice polished tail pipes on a car looking like that leve the dumps for the track or every other mustang guy that wants the loudest badest soundin ear drum poping car on the block... not for me. got a buddy with a camaro that your head hurts when you get out of this car bc no tail pipes or dumps. and you smell like exhaust . blah .
trust me it was PURELY a cost-cutting measure. :flip:
i will get tailpipes this spring, maybe sooner. but it WILL have em, and they will have a pair of those sharp, thin polished tips with the end cut off at an angle, i think that looks absolutely SICK. i dont want the kind with the end bent around so its round and bubbly looking.
i agree something's just missing from the back of the car when there's no pipes!
No tail-pipes leave a cleaner looking rear end...and your exhaust will only be as loud as the lers you have installed. I can understand your reasoning for tailpipes though(pansy)...lol, j/k.
yeah...i guess you could make that argument too. and its kinda neat right now in the cold when it first starts seeing steam emanante from the sides and back of the car. instant fog machine! :hick:
A friend of mine had a late 70's firebird a few years ago with turbo lers and dumps. CHEAP turbo lers. It was the worst sounding thing on the road. We used to make fun of that car all day long. As a matter of fact, we used to make fun of all the cars that guy has ever owned. Never mattered what he's got, it still sucks. Even the Trailblazer SS he's driving now. He could barely pull half a truck on me to 60mph in my Titan LOL. I need to call him and give him some s**t:drink:
I have 3 inch angle cut rolled tips on my 'Bird.I cut the bumper,bumper brackets,and bumper cover (notched the cover) and moved the exhaust up and now they pipes are 3/4 the way in the bumper like the 2004 T-Birds and others with the exhaust in the bumper (Not "through" the bumper like with holes or something).Gave the car a nice finished look.
Cheapo turbo lers usually do sound like a steamy pile of poo...most turbo lers have necked down "resonator" tubes...I've seen many 2.5" in/out turbo lers with 2", or even sometimes smaller resonator tubes...dynomax is nice because they maintain their size....and on a 5.0...it's like a sleeping giant...quiet and full of bass at idle, then screaming mad as you rip past 4k rpm. I've been considering switching to flowmaster's because I like the idle and part throttle sound, but I think they are a bit loud at WOT....just my opinion.
i was actually reading on the corral, and theres this one guy (and others back him up) that says Dynomax race bullets are real good. i even watched a video he posted and i like the sound. his are dumped, and he says that they are what you said about the dynomax turbo ones, quiet at idle and cruising (and he says 0 drone on the bullets because theyre straight through) and when you romp on it its LOUD. thats what im looking for.
at my local advance auto parts they sell Thrush turbo lers, you know, blue box, the classic logo, etc. i think theyre pretty cheap but ill still check, is that what you're talking about? cuz i thought somewhere online like summit or something similar, they were sold as "dynomax thrush turbo" so are they the same thing? does Dynomax own Thrush? what is this "resonator tube"? how do i know its there? im not sure, from what you said, do i want it or not? "maintains its size" what do you mean by this?
I'm using the Warlock race lers.They have the built in cut-outs.They have a nice burble at idle,a good tone while driving,but when you hit the gas,you can hear them.If you open the cut-outs,NOISE,NOISE,NOISE !!!
Some lers have lets say a 2.5" inlet and outlet but the inner part with the sound deadening material will only have a 2" diameter core for the exhaust to pass through. "Maintaining it's size" simply means that same size ler would have a 2.5" core to match it's inlet and outlet diameters.
What he said ^
Thrush is owned by dynomax but it's basically the cheapest of the cheap...i would recommend staying away from them if you can afford it. The dynomax bullets...well, I've heard mixed opinions on them...they will be obnoxiously loud...if you and your local authorities can tolerate it, you should be happy though.