Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: turbokev on December 05, 2006, 01:26:49 PM
Post by: turbokev on December 05, 2006, 01:26:49 PM
OK.. I have a really nice turbo coupe.. let's say I want to pull out the 2.3 and go completely through it and build it up, but because of kids, budget constraints etc, I fully expect that whole process to take a year or more. I'm talking about a fully done up 2.3 with a Boport head etc..
I don't want the car to sit for over a year without being able to drive it, so I'd like to drop a carbed V8 in it.
Since I wouldn't be going to a fuel injected 5.0, wouldn't the swap be considerably easier to do?
Some concerns would be:
cooling
fuel delivery
exhaust
clutch/bellhousing/tranny
spark
motor mounts
Oil Pan
Cooling: Well.. The car has a huge 4 core aluminum radiator in it already with electric fans (one temp sensing and one manually activated from in car) so cooling shouldn't be an issue.
Fuel Delivery.. Is there some sort of adjustable regulator or something similar that will allow me to keep the TC tank and internal fuel pump and let me run a fuel line to an aftermarket 4bbl carb? I'll also need to change the throttle cable over to a carbed Mustang version I think..
Exhaust.. I'm assuming some sort of Mustang shorty headers will fit in the engine bay? The car has a nice 3" single exhaust on it now I could tap in to by just having the local custom exhaust place make me a Y pipe from the headers to some point on the existing system.
Clutch/bellhousing/tranny.. Car has the factory turbo coupe T5 transmission. If I'm not going for huge horsepower, is there a way to retain that transmission it it's current location ? (so the shifter stays where it is). and.. does the current 2.3 bellhousing bolt up to a 5.0?
Spark.. aftermarket ignition coil.. shouldn't be a big deal?
Motor mounts.. V8 Tbird mounts?
Oil pan.. Is there a specific one that is a drop in? Is there an issue using the turbo coupe K member?
I know it would be much easier to grab another running TC motor and just drop it in and go.. But I'm thinking I'd like to try a carbed V8 swap for the fun of it..as long as it isn't a huge hassle. Seems like it shouldn't be too too hard since it won't be fuel injected, it's already a stick, and the cooling system is bulletproof.
What do you think? opinions / info appreciated~
I don't want the car to sit for over a year without being able to drive it, so I'd like to drop a carbed V8 in it.
Since I wouldn't be going to a fuel injected 5.0, wouldn't the swap be considerably easier to do?
Some concerns would be:
cooling
fuel delivery
exhaust
clutch/bellhousing/tranny
spark
motor mounts
Oil Pan
Cooling: Well.. The car has a huge 4 core aluminum radiator in it already with electric fans (one temp sensing and one manually activated from in car) so cooling shouldn't be an issue.
Fuel Delivery.. Is there some sort of adjustable regulator or something similar that will allow me to keep the TC tank and internal fuel pump and let me run a fuel line to an aftermarket 4bbl carb? I'll also need to change the throttle cable over to a carbed Mustang version I think..
Exhaust.. I'm assuming some sort of Mustang shorty headers will fit in the engine bay? The car has a nice 3" single exhaust on it now I could tap in to by just having the local custom exhaust place make me a Y pipe from the headers to some point on the existing system.
Clutch/bellhousing/tranny.. Car has the factory turbo coupe T5 transmission. If I'm not going for huge horsepower, is there a way to retain that transmission it it's current location ? (so the shifter stays where it is). and.. does the current 2.3 bellhousing bolt up to a 5.0?
Spark.. aftermarket ignition coil.. shouldn't be a big deal?
Motor mounts.. V8 Tbird mounts?
Oil pan.. Is there a specific one that is a drop in? Is there an issue using the turbo coupe K member?
I know it would be much easier to grab another running TC motor and just drop it in and go.. But I'm thinking I'd like to try a carbed V8 swap for the fun of it..as long as it isn't a huge hassle. Seems like it shouldn't be too too hard since it won't be fuel injected, it's already a stick, and the cooling system is bulletproof.
What do you think? opinions / info appreciated~
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2006, 06:57:08 PM
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2006, 06:57:08 PM
The radiator *should* be fine, it sounds like you have a good one now.
The k-member will be fine, just use a stock fox body 5.0 pan, either a Mustang, or a V8 Tbird pan will be fine.
You'll need a bellhousing for a V8/T5, again, Mustang, but...you'll need to swap out your hydraulic clutch mechanism for a cable and pedals from a Stang.
Grab some Stang shorty headers, and a cheap h-pipe, and have a decent exhaust shop weld it in for ya.
For mounts, you'll need to either find some T-bird/cougar stockers, as the '86-'88 mounts are original only to Bird/Cougars of those years..Stang mounts will NOT work on these years unless you change the K-member. Also see ChuckW.
For fuel delivery, I'm not so sure about, I've heard from numerous sources you can use an adjustable FPR, other people have said it won't work..I have no real world exerience with this yet.
Good luck!
Edit: it appears you have an '86 TC, so you should already have the cable clutch, that's a plus if you're going to run the 5.0 for a while, as the older Mustangs had the cable clutch as well, not sure when they went to a hyd setup, maybe around '94..? Also depending on build date, you *may* be able to use the Mustang mounts, not sure if there was a cutoff date, or it was year-long in 1986.
The k-member will be fine, just use a stock fox body 5.0 pan, either a Mustang, or a V8 Tbird pan will be fine.
You'll need a bellhousing for a V8/T5, again, Mustang, but...you'll need to swap out your hydraulic clutch mechanism for a cable and pedals from a Stang.
Grab some Stang shorty headers, and a cheap h-pipe, and have a decent exhaust shop weld it in for ya.
For mounts, you'll need to either find some T-bird/cougar stockers, as the '86-'88 mounts are original only to Bird/Cougars of those years..Stang mounts will NOT work on these years unless you change the K-member. Also see ChuckW.
For fuel delivery, I'm not so sure about, I've heard from numerous sources you can use an adjustable FPR, other people have said it won't work..I have no real world exerience with this yet.
Good luck!
Edit: it appears you have an '86 TC, so you should already have the cable clutch, that's a plus if you're going to run the 5.0 for a while, as the older Mustangs had the cable clutch as well, not sure when they went to a hyd setup, maybe around '94..? Also depending on build date, you *may* be able to use the Mustang mounts, not sure if there was a cutoff date, or it was year-long in 1986.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Red_LX on December 05, 2006, 06:58:32 PM
Post by: Red_LX on December 05, 2006, 06:58:32 PM
Ummm...couldn't you just spend a couple hundred bucks on a beater? Would be a hell of a lot easier...I think you'd be opening a can of worms at best, you'd have to change a bunch of stuff to put in a V8 and then change it all back.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on December 05, 2006, 07:12:35 PM
Post by: Chuck W on December 05, 2006, 07:12:35 PM
I see his point about wanting to be able to drive the car. That's part of the reason I'm delaying the I6 swap in the 83 and just refreshing a shortblock...to get the car back on the road....
That being said, how about just picking up a used 2.3T longblock and rebuild that? That way you save the double work of R&R the 2.3T/5.0 stuff. I know you can find a useable one for $400 or there abouts.
That being said, how about just picking up a used 2.3T longblock and rebuild that? That way you save the double work of R&R the 2.3T/5.0 stuff. I know you can find a useable one for $400 or there abouts.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 46Tbird on December 05, 2006, 07:50:53 PM
Post by: 46Tbird on December 05, 2006, 07:50:53 PM
Once you put a V8 in it, you won't want to go back. :D
There is no FPR that is made to drop pressure from 45ish to 6psi. You might get a carb regulator to work for a while, but it will eventually rupture. Hope you don't trash a needle and seat when it happens. Also, it will restrict fuel flow to the point it won't run properly, especially at higher revs where it needs fuel the most.
Pretty easy to convert your in-tank chassis to be a pickup only, and run an external low-pressure carb pump. I just did it on mine.
There is no FPR that is made to drop pressure from 45ish to 6psi. You might get a carb regulator to work for a while, but it will eventually rupture. Hope you don't trash a needle and seat when it happens. Also, it will restrict fuel flow to the point it won't run properly, especially at higher revs where it needs fuel the most.
Pretty easy to convert your in-tank chassis to be a pickup only, and run an external low-pressure carb pump. I just did it on mine.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2006, 10:54:20 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 05, 2006, 10:54:20 PM
If the car runs good just pick up another 2.3T like Chuck W said. Once you change everything over to a V8 it'll be a pain to change back. Besides a 2.3T is more unique than a 5.0, and the car's a Turbo Coupe to begin with.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: turbokev on December 05, 2006, 11:02:05 PM
Post by: turbokev on December 05, 2006, 11:02:05 PM
I appreciate the input thus far..
Believe me, I know building another long block would be the sensible thing to do.. but I have no sense. I want to use my original motor for the build up as I know it's history and maintenence records from day 1. It's a 59K motor that is clean, always has had synthetics and has always been kept well tuned with geniune Ford parts. No surprises when I tear it down and get into it.
I'm inclined to do the V8 thing for a couple reasons.. I want to drive the car next summer with the torquey feeling as opposed to the whooshy feeling of the turbo. (those of you who have had both will understand what I mean) Also, doing a carbed, cammed, Ford smallblock will sound very cool (I told you I have no sense.I'm looking for the 'cool sound') and if I really like it, I'll leave it in for awhile and put the turbo 4 back in when the time is right.. it won't hurt to have a rebuilt, low miles original motor on hand.
I love the turbo 4 and it's potential.. my car is quite fast the way it sits..but I think I'd like to have something a little different for awhile while I take my time on the motor build up. I don't really want a beater (I've got a great Aerostar XLT extended body van for a winter car and parts runner)..I want to be able to drive the TC next summer ,not just let it sit and wait.
I'm going to keep doing research.. I need ot look into the low pressure fuel option.. Everything else seems like it will fall into place pretty easily.
..and besides, I'm under no emissions laws or anything like that up here in NH (live free or die baby) so how cool will it be to open the hood on my TC and show someone a dressed up Ford blue V8 with headers :)
Believe me, I know building another long block would be the sensible thing to do.. but I have no sense. I want to use my original motor for the build up as I know it's history and maintenence records from day 1. It's a 59K motor that is clean, always has had synthetics and has always been kept well tuned with geniune Ford parts. No surprises when I tear it down and get into it.
I'm inclined to do the V8 thing for a couple reasons.. I want to drive the car next summer with the torquey feeling as opposed to the whooshy feeling of the turbo. (those of you who have had both will understand what I mean) Also, doing a carbed, cammed, Ford smallblock will sound very cool (I told you I have no sense.I'm looking for the 'cool sound') and if I really like it, I'll leave it in for awhile and put the turbo 4 back in when the time is right.. it won't hurt to have a rebuilt, low miles original motor on hand.
I love the turbo 4 and it's potential.. my car is quite fast the way it sits..but I think I'd like to have something a little different for awhile while I take my time on the motor build up. I don't really want a beater (I've got a great Aerostar XLT extended body van for a winter car and parts runner)..I want to be able to drive the TC next summer ,not just let it sit and wait.
I'm going to keep doing research.. I need ot look into the low pressure fuel option.. Everything else seems like it will fall into place pretty easily.
..and besides, I'm under no emissions laws or anything like that up here in NH (live free or die baby) so how cool will it be to open the hood on my TC and show someone a dressed up Ford blue V8 with headers :)
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Red_LX on December 05, 2006, 11:07:49 PM
Post by: Red_LX on December 05, 2006, 11:07:49 PM
Quote from: turbokev;117153
Believe me, I know building another long block would be the sensible thing to do.. but I have no sense. I want to use my original motor for the build up as I know it's history and maintenence records from day 1. It's a 59K motor that is clean, always has had synthetics and has always been kept well tuned with geniune Ford parts. No surprises when I tear it down and get into it.
I would say you're missing the point of rebuilding an engine, but you say yourself that you have no sense....:dunno:
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on December 05, 2006, 11:13:07 PM
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on December 05, 2006, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: 46Tbird;117110
Once you put a V8 in it, you won't want to go back. :D
There is no FPR that is made to drop pressure from 45ish to 6psi. .
4309 mallory
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 06:28:39 AM
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 06:28:39 AM
Quote from: Red_LX;117154
I would say you're missing the point of rebuilding an engine, but you say yourself that you have no sense....:dunno:
I'm not sure I follow you? What point am I missing?
Are you saying it doesn't matter what engine I start with since once it's rebuilt it will be 'like new' anyways?
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 46Tbird on December 06, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: 46Tbird on December 06, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
Hey Kev, how long you planning to take to rebuild the engine?
Even a novice should be able to have a 2.3T out, machined, built, and back in within 5-7 days...
Even a novice should be able to have a 2.3T out, machined, built, and back in within 5-7 days...
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 10:25:57 AM
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 10:25:57 AM
Quote from: 46Tbird;117200
Hey Kev, how long you planning to take to rebuild the engine?
Even a novice should be able to have a 2.3T out, machined, built, and back in within 5-7 days...
:grinno: I know what's 'possible' to do.. but the reality of my life with 2 kids under 3 years old is that I'll be short on funds and time..
I'll be able to get the motor out and onto a stand on a Saturday, no issues there. But then the disassembly, cleaning, sending out the head, picking up all the other little things I want to do like ported intake manifolds, a Bobs log, new turbo etc will take time to save up for and install on the motor.
In theory, I could just start saving the money now and when I have everything together that I need, make a mad dash to complete the car quickly.. Problem is, it'll take me awhile to save up the extra money to do all that I want to do and the car needs valve seals pretty badly right now.. It smokes like crazy at start up. So, if I pull the current motor and put a V8 in by springtime, I'll be able to drive the car and enjoy it while I take my time getting everything together for the 2.3 buildup.
I'm in this car for the long haul.. it's completely rust and dent free and I'm not inclined to get rid of it anytime soon.. so even if the 2.3 sits on the stand and takes 2 years to finally complete, I'm OK with that as long as I have something else in the car to drive it.. and the V8 route is appealing to me.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 46Tbird on December 06, 2006, 11:04:21 AM
Post by: 46Tbird on December 06, 2006, 11:04:21 AM
Far out.
Seals are cheap and easy, could be a quick fix to get it running right in the meantime.
Seriously, once you get a V8 in there, you won't ever take it out. I promise. Dumping a lot of money in an engine on the stand is gonna seem silly when it runs just as good (or better) with what's in it..
Man, I would kill for a clean black low-mile dead stock '85-86 TC.
Seals are cheap and easy, could be a quick fix to get it running right in the meantime.
Seriously, once you get a V8 in there, you won't ever take it out. I promise. Dumping a lot of money in an engine on the stand is gonna seem silly when it runs just as good (or better) with what's in it..
Man, I would kill for a clean black low-mile dead stock '85-86 TC.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 12:48:48 PM
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 12:48:48 PM
Quote from: 46Tbird;117214
Man, I would kill for a clean black low-mile dead stock '85-86 TC.
Mine's silver.. (that black one was the only picture I could find when I made the banner LOL)
Here's a picture..
(http://www.tbirdheritage.com/registry/image/68.jpg)
and, if you want to see some under hood shots, here's a link to the write up I did on my intercooler install..
http://home.comcast.net/~redlineguy/FMIC.html (http://"http://home.comcast.net/~redlineguy/FMIC.html")
We'll see what happens.. I'm not going to start anything till after the Holidays are over~
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 46Tbird on December 06, 2006, 01:05:26 PM
Post by: 46Tbird on December 06, 2006, 01:05:26 PM
Nice car!
I've never seen a 4wd Thunderbird, you guys sure have interestingly optioned cars up there! :D
I've never seen a 4wd Thunderbird, you guys sure have interestingly optioned cars up there! :D
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 02:39:33 PM
Post by: turbokev on December 06, 2006, 02:39:33 PM
LOL... I had just put new Konis on the car that morning.. I was on my 'test drive' when I took the picture.
It has settled down some, but it certainly isn't a low car.. This is pretty much the stock stance.. These stock 15" rims don't do anything to help either~
(http://home.comcast.net/~redlineguy/AnsaB.jpg)
It has settled down some, but it certainly isn't a low car.. This is pretty much the stock stance.. These stock 15" rims don't do anything to help either~
(http://home.comcast.net/~redlineguy/AnsaB.jpg)
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Red_LX on December 06, 2006, 06:22:34 PM
Post by: Red_LX on December 06, 2006, 06:22:34 PM
Quote from: turbokev;117184
I'm not sure I follow you? What point am I missing?
Are you saying it doesn't matter what engine I start with since once it's rebuilt it will be 'like new' anyways?
Yes...
Honestly unless you get something that was horribly abused, it doesn't make a difference. Especially if you're planning to have the engine bored and install new pistons.
I pulled an engine from an '84 Turbo Coupe a couple years back to rebuild. It was in a car that had been abandoned (got it from a towing company), had a questionable usage/maintenance history (looked like it had been jumped into a gravel pile and gone over with a baseball bat), and had 145K on it. I tore the engine down and had it checked out. The head wasn't cracked, the mains didn't need align honed, hell the crank didn't even need turned (only had the journals polished). The only bad part of the engine was some scratches in the cylinder walls, I couldn't afford to have the block bored & buy new pistons so I just had it honed and reused the stock pistons. I now have 20K on the engine, it runs great and I really have no complaints with it whatsoever. I only wish I woulda been able to afford new pistons because I get some blowby due to the scratches in the cylinder walls.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 88_302_tcoupe on December 10, 2006, 04:30:17 AM
Post by: 88_302_tcoupe on December 10, 2006, 04:30:17 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;117149
Besides a 2.3T is more unique than a 5.0, and the car's a Turbo Coupe to begin with.
not if you put a turbo or twin on your 302 :grinno: ... then its still technically a turbo coupe :p
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 03, 2007, 09:14:55 PM
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 03, 2007, 09:14:55 PM
As far as the fuel question goes, I found out how to use the factory in tank 40 psi pump and get 6.5 psi at the carb. I got this tip 2 years ago off a link at toohighpsi.com and it worked great! I put a "t" fitting inline connecting the high pressure feed to the return line. The 40 psi pump runs full time in a "runaround" mode as normal but because the return line is smaller to the tank than the feed line to the engine, it produces a natural restiction (which produces backpressure) that just so happens to be 6 psi at idle and 6.5 psi when the rpms come up. I have run this setup for over a year and bracket race this car (my 84 non-h.o) with a 88 Turbo Coupe tank. I do not know how this would work on an engine making more than 250 hp but I am pleased with the results so far. All the fittings at the hardware store cost me $ 18.00 I'll try to get photos of my setup on the '84 and post them.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: bhazard on January 03, 2007, 10:00:31 PM
Post by: bhazard on January 03, 2007, 10:00:31 PM
If the car is THAT nice dont even think of pulling the motor, especially for a V8.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: jcassity on January 04, 2007, 02:19:35 AM
Post by: jcassity on January 04, 2007, 02:19:35 AM
Quote from: 83-88T-Bird Guy;121618
As far as the fuel question goes, I found out how to use the factory in tank 40 psi pump and get 6.5 psi at the carb. I got this tip 2 years ago off a link at toohighpsi.com and it worked great! I put a "t" fitting inline connecting the high pressure feed to the return line. The 40 psi pump runs full time in a "runaround" mode as normal but because the return line is smaller to the tank than the feed line to the engine, it produces a natural restiction (which produces backpressure) that just so happens to be 6 psi at idle and 6.5 psi when the rpms come up. I have run this setup for over a year and bracket race this car (my 84 non-h.o) with a 88 Turbo Coupe tank. I do not know how this would work on an engine making more than 250 hp but I am pleased with the results so far. All the fittings at the hardware store cost me $ 18.00 I'll try to get photos of my setup on the '84 and post them.
i drool over that site to. The FPR's for carbs are out there also.
I love that whole loop back thing in order to get carb psi,, although i think its just the restriction size that accounts for the redused psi like you said. It kinda acts like a large leak in the fuel system and the leak goes to the carb. Ill assume you dont run a carb return line eh?
and for fuel injected folks who want an accumulator like what GM provides as oem,,, which smooths out fuel delivery, here is a home grown version of what can be done.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 04, 2007, 10:27:19 AM
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 04, 2007, 10:27:19 AM
No I do not use any return line from the carb because it deadheads at a perfect 6.5 psi. I have no idea what the long term effects are with this setup because it is too early to tell. Any thoughts?
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 1BadBird on January 04, 2007, 12:12:23 PM
Post by: 1BadBird on January 04, 2007, 12:12:23 PM
You'll have a problem using the T/C K-member. The way the 2.3L mounts on the K-member is different than a V8. That IMHO is about the only major problem you'd have. Look at your k-member, then go to a salvage yard and look at a V8 k-member and compare the mount pads. You could also look at some V8 mounts from a parts store and then look at yours. I lucked out as the MKVIII DOHC mounts the same way as the old 2.3L.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 04, 2007, 08:26:19 PM
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on January 04, 2007, 08:26:19 PM
Here is a couple of shots of fuel log and how I get 6.5 psi with a 40 psi in tank pump. ..
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 04, 2007, 08:43:23 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 04, 2007, 08:43:23 PM
Quote from: 1BadBird;121774
You'll have a problem using the T/C K-member. The way the 2.3L mounts on the K-member is different than a V8. That IMHO is about the only major problem you'd have. Look at your k-member, then go to a salvage yard and look at a V8 k-member and compare the mount pads. You could also look at some V8 mounts from a parts store and then look at yours. I lucked out as the MKVIII DOHC mounts the same way as the old 2.3L.
Since when??? I still have the original K member in my exTC...
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 11:57:42 AM
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 11:57:42 AM
I had an 85' elan with a 5.0 and I have an 86' T/C. The k-members were different where and how the motor mounts bolted on. My 86' T/C has a pad where the mount slips over and the bolt goes through front to back. The 85' elan had mounting pads like a mustang where the bolt that goes from the mount through the mounting pad. I had bought the elan to swap the engine into my T/C but at the time I only had a gravel driveway and not all the tools to change k-members. I put the 5.0 back into the elan and gave it to my would-be exgirlfriend. Maybe I had an odd ball car.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 12:01:57 PM
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 12:01:57 PM
86-88T-bird guy, that's a pretty good setup you have. Glad it works.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 12:28:51 PM
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 12:28:51 PM
Quote from: 1BadBird;122013
I had an 85' elan with a 5.0 and I have an 86' T/C. The k-members were different where and how the motor mounts bolted on. My 86' T/C has a pad where the mount slips over and the bolt goes through front to back. The 85' elan had mounting pads like a mustang where the bolt that goes from the mount through the mounting pad. I had bought the elan to swap the engine into my T/C but at the time I only had a gravel driveway and not all the tools to change k-members. I put the 5.0 back into the elan and gave it to my would-be exgirlfriend. Maybe I had an odd ball car.
That was a MY change, not an engine thing.
In 86 they changed to the different style mounts across the board...not just the TC. All you needed was 86-88 5.0 mounts.....simple as that. No need to change K-members. Until recently though, there were no aftermarket motor mount options for the 86-88 5.0 cars....;)
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 01:50:38 PM
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 01:50:38 PM
No, it wasn't a MY change. Yes, I was going to change the 2 engines but because the K-member/motor mount issue, I didn't go through with it as I said before, I didn't have the tools/time to change the K-members.But the two definately were different! But what do I know. Just a back yard idiot I guess.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 02:12:21 PM
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 02:12:21 PM
Uh...yes it was a model year change.... ALL of the 86's used the changed K-member with the pads welded to the K-member instead of the angled mounts like the 83-85s...
You could have put the 85 5.0 in the 86TC with 86-88 5.0 motor mounts. No need to change the K-member....
But what do I know? Just a backyard idiot I guess....
You could have put the 85 5.0 in the 86TC with 86-88 5.0 motor mounts. No need to change the K-member....
But what do I know? Just a backyard idiot I guess....
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: stuntmannick on January 05, 2007, 02:39:29 PM
Post by: stuntmannick on January 05, 2007, 02:39:29 PM
Did all of the 85.5 TC's come with the 86-88 K members?
I remember I threw an '84 TC engine in an '85 TC and I think the mounts were different.
I remember I threw an '84 TC engine in an '85 TC and I think the mounts were different.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: stuntmannick on January 05, 2007, 02:41:11 PM
Post by: stuntmannick on January 05, 2007, 02:41:11 PM
Did all of the 85.5 TC's come with the 86-88 K members?
I remember I threw an '84 TC engine in an '85 TC and I think the mounts were the same.
I remember I threw an '84 TC engine in an '85 TC and I think the mounts were the same.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 88sportcoupe on January 05, 2007, 02:47:08 PM
Post by: 88sportcoupe on January 05, 2007, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: stuntmannick;122041
I remember I threw an '84 TC engine in an '85 TC and I think the mounts were different.
Quote from: stuntmannick;122042
I remember I threw an '84 TC engine in an '85 TC and I think the mounts were the same.
Well, which is it the same or different?:shakeass: :grinno:
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 03:04:22 PM
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 03:04:22 PM
85 was the oddball.
The 85TC had different mounts than the 83-84s, which also included different adapters that bolted to the K-member. You could not use 83-84 mounts in an 85TC or vise versa unless you also changed the bolt-on adapter plates as well.
The K-member did not change motormount-wise 83-85. It changed in 86.
The 85TC had different mounts than the 83-84s, which also included different adapters that bolted to the K-member. You could not use 83-84 mounts in an 85TC or vise versa unless you also changed the bolt-on adapter plates as well.
The K-member did not change motormount-wise 83-85. It changed in 86.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 05, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 05, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
Listen to Chuck he knows as much as anyone out there when it comes to x-members and mounts... And yes the x-members changed from '85 to '86 Making to distinct groups the '83-'85 and the '86-'88... I used '87 5.0 bird mounts for my swap, fit no problem...
Need STRONG motor mounts???? Chuck is your man...
Need STRONG motor mounts???? Chuck is your man...
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 06:00:42 PM
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 06:00:42 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;122072
Listen to Chuck he knows as much as anyone out there when it comes to x-members and mounts... And yes the x-members changed from '85 to '86 Making to distinct groups the '83-'85 and the '86-'88... I used '87 5.0 bird mounts for my swap, fit no problem...
Need STRONG motor mounts???? Chuck is your man...
Thanks.
Actually the 86 Kmembers are different than the 87-88's :grinno:
Same mounts, but the control arms are different.
It's like Ford couldn't make up their mind on what to do in 85-86....:pbb:
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 06:07:39 PM
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 06:07:39 PM
Chuck, and everyone else, I'm sorry about that ealier post. There no excuse for my attitude. I'll keep a low profile after the following question and not say anything else.
Ok Chuck, got another question for you then. What years of T/C's had those hydro type motor mounts?? Before I started my destuction of my 86' T/C, I went to find a new set of mounts because both of mine had broken. They guys at the parts store told me that what I had was the "Hydro" mounts and that they were not available through them. They gave me the number to a NOS dealer and he wanted $240 for pair of Hydro's. I just said screw it and started a V8 conversion that had started with a stroked 351W (426), but that changed to the current engine that I'm swapping in.
Ok Chuck, got another question for you then. What years of T/C's had those hydro type motor mounts?? Before I started my destuction of my 86' T/C, I went to find a new set of mounts because both of mine had broken. They guys at the parts store told me that what I had was the "Hydro" mounts and that they were not available through them. They gave me the number to a NOS dealer and he wanted $240 for pair of Hydro's. I just said screw it and started a V8 conversion that had started with a stroked 351W (426), but that changed to the current engine that I'm swapping in.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 06:21:10 PM
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 06:21:10 PM
I don't know all the exact years of the isolators used. Mainly because they are a design. I know you could swap the isolators between the 86 and the 87-88 cars with some minor mods (the mounts I used to design my original 86-88TC mounts years ago were 86 mounts with 87-88 isolators). Actually the top part of the mounts is the same through '93 as are the isolators at least in regards to fitment (not claiming the same part numbers).
Technically you could have taken upper (block) brackets from an 86-93 5.0 Tbird/Cougar, isolators from the same and used your lower brackets.
I guess it seems more confusing than it is.
You're using an aftermarket K-member now right? Do you still have the factory 4.6 mounts? (perhaps someone could borrow them...maybe? Hmmm? :hick: )
Technically you could have taken upper (block) brackets from an 86-93 5.0 Tbird/Cougar, isolators from the same and used your lower brackets.
I guess it seems more confusing than it is.
You're using an aftermarket K-member now right? Do you still have the factory 4.6 mounts? (perhaps someone could borrow them...maybe? Hmmm? :hick: )
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 06:38:10 PM
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 06:38:10 PM
I'm currently still using the original 86' K-member and the mounts are from the 93' MKVIII I took the engine out of. There is like an 1/4 inch difference between the two on each side. There is enough room on each side to move the tube/hole over to match up with each other. I haven't yet mocked up the engine/tranny in the car. Those measurements were taken from both K-members after both engines had been removed.
Also regarding the T/C mounts that broke on my car. They looked like regular mounts, 2 metal brackets (top and bottom) with a rubber biscuit inbetween and a bolt going all the way thru. My engine was only being held in by the tranny mount. It had shifted over to the passenger side. I stopped driving the car when I noticed something just didn't feel right.
John
Also regarding the T/C mounts that broke on my car. They looked like regular mounts, 2 metal brackets (top and bottom) with a rubber biscuit inbetween and a bolt going all the way thru. My engine was only being held in by the tranny mount. It had shifted over to the passenger side. I stopped driving the car when I noticed something just didn't feel right.
John
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 06:52:54 PM
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 06:52:54 PM
Yeah, there is only a minor difference between the lower brackets on the Fox and early MN-12 cars.
The problem with the stock mounts like in your TC is the fact that the isolators did not have a bolt going "all the way through" but instead each face of the bushing fastens seperately....that's why the stock mount brackets had all of the safety stops on them.
You interested in letting me borrow those Mk8 mounts to look at for a couple weeks? PM me.
The problem with the stock mounts like in your TC is the fact that the isolators did not have a bolt going "all the way through" but instead each face of the bushing fastens seperately....that's why the stock mount brackets had all of the safety stops on them.
You interested in letting me borrow those Mk8 mounts to look at for a couple weeks? PM me.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 07:31:42 PM
Post by: 1BadBird on January 05, 2007, 07:31:42 PM
Chuck, sent you a pm.
Also could my mounts have been from a 2.3L mustang?? There was no safety brackets on my mounts at all, nothing that interlocked anyway.
Also could my mounts have been from a 2.3L mustang?? There was no safety brackets on my mounts at all, nothing that interlocked anyway.
Title: Quick and easy V8 swap ? (2.3 to 5.0)
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 07:48:19 PM
Post by: Chuck W on January 05, 2007, 07:48:19 PM
No..the Mustang mounts did not fit the 86-88 TCs
Actually I misspoke on the interlocks. The 5.0s had them, as did the later SC mounts.
Actually I misspoke on the interlocks. The 5.0s had them, as did the later SC mounts.