Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Innes on November 27, 2006, 12:01:58 AM

Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Innes on November 27, 2006, 12:01:58 AM
Has anyone blocked there EGR. Today messing around w/GT40 intake off an explorer I cut peaces of steal and mashed them in the exhaust runners of the intake. I plan on doing the same to the GT40 heads also off an explorer. Does any one now of any kits to eliminate the EGR by the TB. Till now the car was running just w/ the vacuum and electrical connects disconnected from the EGR by the TB.
Oyea in time ill have pics up of how I blocked it.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: cougarcragar on November 27, 2006, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: Innes;115735
Today messing around w/GT40 intake off an explorer I cut peaces of steal and mashed them in the exhaust runners of the intake.


Isn't there a better and safer way to do it? That sounds really strange...
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 27, 2006, 03:21:00 PM
Why do you need to block off the egr? It cuts off at wide open throttle. You really won't get that much of a performance gain by blocking it off.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: bhazard on November 27, 2006, 03:22:16 PM
yeah and you would love to have one of those mashed pieces of steel come loose in there and play around inside your engine.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Tbird232ci on November 27, 2006, 03:45:44 PM
http://www.uprproducts.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=77&cat=EGR%2BDelete%2BPlates
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Dogcharmer on November 27, 2006, 04:48:00 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;115799
Why do you need to block off the egr? It cuts off at wide open throttle. You really won't get that much of a performance gain by blocking it off.


That is true on the street. I blocked off mine by installing a plug in a phenolic spacer between the upper and lower intake. The upper intake will stay cool until you stop at a stop light or cut off the ignition at a store. Once the upper intake heat soaks you might as well have the EGR functioning... and like I said, one red light and it will be heat soaked.

The only benefit to blocking it off would be if you're icing your intake between rounds drag racing or if your EGR is not working right and you dont have the money to fix it. When mine was malfunctioning I blocked it off with a piece of sheet metal cut to the shape of the valve  and sandwiched in between the valve and the mounting . That's the easiest way to block it.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Ifixyawata on November 27, 2006, 06:30:35 PM
I did the same thing as Dogcharmer when I was troubleshooting a rough idle problem.  Also unplugged the wire harness from the back.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Red_LX on November 27, 2006, 07:55:59 PM
I blocked mine off because I didn't feel like dealing with the rusty hardware and other BS :dunno:

Also I had to cut the EGR "ear" off the intake because of the late model TPS I'm using.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: King_V on November 27, 2006, 09:25:27 PM
As far as emissions devices go, the EGR is benign in terms of any performance penalty.

Doesn't affect maximum power, and increases part-throttle fuel economy.

What's the antited gain in eliminating it?
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Chuck W on November 27, 2006, 09:54:26 PM
There is no gain to blocking it off...and actually a stock ECU expects to see it as fuel and spark maps take into account that air flow.

If it works, might as well leave it working.

Mine is gone on the 2.3T in the 83, but I can also program around it.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Innes on November 28, 2006, 12:36:10 AM
As for HP gain I heard by blocking off at the heads is approx about 10-15 pony’s due to the cooler intake manifold I know 10-15 is a lot. It’s just what I heard if it’s less then that I’m still happy besides it cleans up under the hood making it look better.
This is the part I ordered it was the same price as the EGR spacer anyway.http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TFS%2D51500075&N=700+0&autoview=sku Tbird232ci i wish i scene yours first yours was cheaper.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Tbird232ci on November 28, 2006, 05:08:15 PM
You wont gain anything from EGR elimination. I ditched mine about 6 months ago. My milage dropped a bit, and got no gains.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Ether947 on November 28, 2006, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci;115957
You wont gain anything from EGR elimination.

Speak for yourself! :p
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1189/dsc02387ot7.th.jpg) (http://"http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02387ot7.jpg")

J/K... but honestly dood, EGR delete is really a waste of money. That's $50 down the drain and a couple bux @ every fill-up from now on.

Hmmm... now does anybody know if any EGR block-off plates like those in Shawn's link will fit the 2.3? I'd buy one from Bob but he's all out. If not then I guess I will have to wait or modify the closest match.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Innes on November 28, 2006, 11:48:21 PM
Call it a waste of time, but it cost just as much as a EGR spacer and a little time blocking some stuff off so it’s my little personal customizing to the car and it will make under the hood look cleaner w/less  in there. And as for gas mileage, I don’t care I drive the car rarely its my weekend bruiser.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: jcassity on November 29, 2006, 12:44:24 AM
i love how people would go and buy something like that,,,flat steel with two holes.:grinno:

blocked off my 351w egr port with a plate,,should have atleast kept the EVP hooked up ,,not real sure though because its vac actuated and if the egr has a hole in the diaphram, it wont operate correctly anyways.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Tbird232ci on November 29, 2006, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Ether947;115961
Speak for yourself! :p
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1189/dsc02387ot7.th.jpg) (http://"http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02387ot7.jpg")

J/K... but honestly dood, EGR delete is really a waste of money. That's $50 down the drain and a couple bux @ every fill-up from now on.

Hmmm... now does anybody know if any EGR block-off plates like those in Shawn's link will fit the 2.3? I'd buy one from Bob but he's all out. If not then I guess I will have to wait or modify the closest match.


As far as i know, it fits, but i made my own. I work at a truck shop, so flat sheet aluminum is easy to come by.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Red_LX on November 30, 2006, 09:43:03 PM
My mileage didn't change.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: mcb82gt on December 01, 2006, 11:36:46 AM
Quote from: Chuck W;115840
There is no gain to blocking it off...and actually a stock ECU expects to see it as fuel and spark maps take into account that air flow.

If it works, might as well leave it working.

Mine is gone on the 2.3T in the 83, but I can also program around it.



If the ecu is calibrated to calculate the airflow..... With the egr blocked, the car would run richer??? Just seeing if I understand.  And that would make the car maybe burn more fuel.  I blocked it on my car because it wouldnt work with Stingers header.  Chuck, how did you program around it?  Burn a diff chip?
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Cougar5.0 on December 01, 2006, 01:04:30 PM
I blocked the flow off by using the solid inserts that come with the FelPro 1250 lower-to-head gaskets (instead of the inserts with the holes that allow flow). I turned off the EGR function in the ECU with my TwEECer, otherwise the ECU would add timing and pull fuel which could lead to pinging at light load. I saw no real benefit after doing this, but I had to due to the fact that the Flowzilla intake for the KB has no provision for the EGR valve.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Clayton on December 01, 2006, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: mcb82gt;116443
If the ecu is calibrated to calculate the airflow..... With the egr blocked, the car would run richer??? Just seeing if I understand.  And that would make the car maybe burn more fuel.  I blocked it on my car because it wouldnt work with Stingers header.  Chuck, how did you program around it?  Burn a diff chip?



I believe chuck is running a megasquirt system.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: mcb82gt on December 04, 2006, 03:43:23 PM
Could a different chip be burned to remove the egr value from the computer?  Need info?
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: JeremyB on December 04, 2006, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: mcb82gt;116443
If the ecu is calibrated to calculate the airflow..... With the egr blocked, the car would run richer??? Just seeing if I understand.  And that would make the car maybe burn more fuel.

Once the computer throws an EGR code, it quits advancing the timing. The gas the EGR recycles is viewed as "inert" by the computer. No fuel is added/subtracted.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: CougarSE on December 04, 2006, 07:28:44 PM
So for two years my 88 hasn't been advancing the timing?
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: JeremyB on December 04, 2006, 10:42:36 PM
No. The timing advances according to the base tables still...but extra timing isn't added for the EGR.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Cougar5.0 on December 05, 2006, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: JeremyB;116995
No. The timing advances according to the base tables still...but extra timing isn't added for the EGR.


Exactly, everything the EGR control does is "in addition to" normal air/fuel and timing.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Innes on December 05, 2006, 03:02:07 AM
Now isn’t it pretty no ugly/rusty EGR valve in the way and its aluminum
I had an old T-Bird plenum cover sandblasted just got to paint it but you can see it on it. Look at it quick and don’t see the in-line runners and you will think its stock.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: mcb82gt on December 05, 2006, 10:04:09 AM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;117007
Exactly, everything the EGR control does is "in addition to" normal air/fuel and timing.



So..... will you notice any performance change or drivability??
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Cougar5.0 on December 05, 2006, 12:02:35 PM
Quote from: mcb82gt;117022
So..... will you notice any performance change or drivability??


If you just turn off the EGR via the ECU, you will see a slight loss of mileage.

If you block off the EGR without disabling the function in the ECU (IE, the computer "thinks" it's adding exhaust gas to the mixture), then you may get pinging due to the added timing & modified fuel mixture.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: mcb82gt on December 06, 2006, 08:33:09 AM
Should I turn my base fuel pressure up to compensate?  It is a 2.3T, my base pressure, vac line unhooked is 39.5 PSI.  When vac line is connected it is about 29.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: Cougar5.0 on December 06, 2006, 10:42:04 AM
Quote from: mcb82gt;117194
Should I turn my base fuel pressure up to compensate?  It is a 2.3T, my base pressure, vac line unhooked is 39.5 PSI.  When vac line is connected it is about 29.


Adaptive control will adjust to any changes in fuel pressure. Stop worrying about this.
Title: Anyone block off there EGR
Post by: mcb82gt on December 06, 2006, 12:25:13 PM
Ok