General => Lounge => Topic started by: P71 on November 17, 2006, 11:00:47 AM
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: P71 on November 17, 2006, 11:00:47 AM
OK, So I KNOW I'm possibly stirring up serious $#!^ here:pbb: , but I have to ask. What is up with other boards? NATO used to be very laid-back and over the last 18 months they created 4 new mods, banned somebody over a personal disagreement, and now banned eBay links with a blanket rule and then snuffed out any dissenters. It's starting to feel like that certain SVO board everybody makes fun of!:rules: I kept my very large mouth out of the whole affair, but it's sad to see a valued member leave the site over the mods comments, even though I WHOLEHEARTIDLY agree with that member. Just seems shady to me. We all know how much tension is in the TF board (hence why I have like 40 posts there period) but this is a trend I'm seeing EVERYWHERE! First it was LS1Tech, then LS2GTO, now NATO. Please don't let this happen here, this is the last car-related board on the net worth a and I intend to try to keep it that way! Let the idiots talk, let the mods/members call each other stupid and then share a laugh over a $820,000 Montego! Just wanted to vent a little steam and say yet again, you guys ROCK! Beers on me as soon as I get a job!:birdsmily: :catsmiley:
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: cougarcragar on November 17, 2006, 11:09:49 AM
I love this message board, and I can't see it going the way of the closed-minded dodo as other boards have. I remember joining it back in '99 or '00 when it was first established at EZboard. I've seen it change through the years. Sure, some arguments have gotten pretty toasty, but it always rebounds to its cool state. We have a great group of people here.
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: ipsd on November 17, 2006, 11:11:30 AM
Yes I here what you are saying loud and clear. This borad seems tobe more on the help each other out side of things. Those other borads seem to be lots of BS. I like both of those boards and post on both of them but I try to either get info or give good info. I try to stay out of the py stuff that other partake in. I know I've had a few disagreements on this board. But everyone seems to forgive and forget.
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 17, 2006, 11:15:44 AM
Won't happen here. We're not that cramped up. ;)
I saw absolutely no point to the eBay (non)linking policy. I know Carm piped in and I was like, "Yeah, you tell them Carm!" (in the background and stuff LOL). The point to eBay is that auctions are open to anyone. For every person bitching that "a NATO link ruined my auction", you can bet there was at least another auction where a NATO link saved a seller's backside. Everything evens out in the end. So...I saw no point to the policy, the arguments, or the bad feelings expressed there. That can only stand to bring a community down.
It's a free world to bid on an eBay auction. I am absolutely diligent and notoriously ruthless with my eBay methods. It gets checked every single day without exception. I have dozens of searches saved, and they all get checked at least once a week. When people ask me, "Where did you find that?", I just roll my eyes. It's almost like having another job, keeping track of all these parts, figuring out what's a good deal, what I'll pass on, what I need vs. what I want, and so on. I take it very, very seriously because it's not just parts--it's a finger on the pulse of the availability of items for our cars, and I'm-a gonna be there taking that pulse. Now I don't know if anyone else does what I do, but I'm going to assume that there's at least someone else out there that does. In that respect I will defend their right to do so with every ounce of my being. Therefore eBay auctions will never be censored on my watch. If you eBay shop, more power to ya. If not, no harm done. Why divide an online community over something so trivial in the overall scheme of things?
I thought car message boards were about the cars...maybe I'm wrong...
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: P71 on November 17, 2006, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;114120
I take it very, very seriously because it's not just parts--it's a finger on the pulse of the availability of items for our cars, and I'm-a gonna be there taking that pulse. Now I don't know if anyone else does what I do, but I'm going to assume that there's at least someone else out there that does.
You know it! I hit eBay, craigslist, the local nickel paper, and even local swap meets/car shows/races for any and every part I can find. The local JY's know my home phone #, and use it! I don't get even a fair percentage of everything I find. But it keeps me in the loop over what's out there, what's NOT out there, what parts I NEED to be repo\roducing, and what prices I need to sell my stuff for. I have over 15,000 Lbs of TBird/Cougar parts in my sheds and I will continue buying them (and selling them!). These cars need dedicated enthusiasts to keep the hobby going. I'm PROUD to say that I am the sole and only reason Revell-Monogram re-released the TC model and Hella made new foglights. I hope to continue adding to that list. I'd rather have one of YOU outbid me then some shmoe in Jersey who's stripping 2 perfect TC's to pay for his belly-button Rustang. /rant
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: shorangerbird on November 17, 2006, 11:36:51 AM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;114120
I thought car message boards were about the cars
here, here...:iagree:
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 17, 2006, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;114120
I thought car message boards were about the cars...maybe I'm wrong...
The thing I couldn't understand (as I stated over there) is that these particular message boards (NATO and us) are dedicated to a very select group of enthusiasts (NATO even more than us, 'cuz we don't care which engine you've got). The cars we love are becoming scarce and finding parts for them is becoming harder. I can't for the life of me understand why anybody would want to restrict the availability of these parts or the price people pay for 'em.
Ya wanna know why so many restorable examples end up in the crusher, completely intact? Because nobody wants to pay for the parts. Is it worth the time and effort to remove four ABS sensors only to see them go for 99 cents on eBay? Would you take the effort to remove four PRC struts & shocks to get $20 out of them? Especiallly if you knew that a small percentage of the enthusiasts for these cars are going out of their way to prevent the rest of the enthusiasts from finding out about your parts, in hope of getting them cheap themselves?
That policy seems to want to protect the buyer (you know, make it so somebody can snag an FMS speedo for $8). It does not take into account the fact that the guy selling the speedo just might be a TC guy himself and completely ignores the fact that he should be able to get a fair price for his part.
It boils down to this: If you get outbid on a part it means somebody else wants it more than you. It is impossible to pay too much at an auction, because you decide the price. "Too much" means one cent more than what the high bidder paid. What he did pay is "just enough". If he outbid you, that means you offered "not enough". It's just that simple, people.
While I'd prefer board members to give us dibs on something they're selling I have seen too many times where something was offered, a bit of conversation was made, and the person ended up listing the item because he had no serious offers. Because of this and Eric's reasons you won't see eBay auctions banned here... unless, of course, somebody starts up with spam/fraud auctions like cell phones, Elmo dolls, PS3's, etc...
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: ZondaC12 on November 17, 2006, 03:20:47 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;114123
You know it! I hit eBay, craigslist, the local nickel paper, and even local swap meets/car shows/races for any and every part I can find. The local JY's know my home phone #, and use it! I don't get even a fair percentage of everything I find. But it keeps me in the loop over what's out there, what's NOT out there, what parts I NEED to be repo\roducing, and what prices I need to sell my stuff for. I have over 15,000 Lbs of TBird/Cougar parts in my sheds and I will continue buying them (and selling them!). These cars need dedicated enthusiasts to keep the hobby going. I'm PROUD to say that I am the sole and only reason Revell-Monogram re-released the TC model and Hella made new foglights. I hope to continue adding to that list. I'd rather have one of YOU outbid me then some shmoe in Jersey who's stripping 2 perfect TC's to pay for his belly-button Rustang. /rant
WOW. thats amazing. kudos to you man!!!
this thread has really made me think. theres just not that big of a following for these cars. what would there be if it wasnt for people like you? the parts that actually are out there somewhere would be trashed/recycled and gone from our reach. makes me think about my own car, makes me want to be even MORE careful than i already am, for fear of breaking a seat piece or a or button or something. that or start stockpiling myself! actually id totally do that to a degree but mom would never have it! too much in the basment already...
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: slamedcat on November 17, 2006, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: ZondaC12;114152
too much in the basment already...
You havn't seen my garage.
I would love to stock pile more stuff but the problem is where I live everyone wants a Stang. Period end of story. If you have a Cougar, Bird or any thing other than a stang you get harassed about it.
Me myself I don't care. I'm out there trying to make the point you can go fast, haul 4 people comfortably, and do it in style.
As for other boards being, how should I put it, snobby. I've seen it, I've been in the middle of it and not by choice. But I was searching for a local board and found one. Guess what they are the nicest people you could meet. Hell everyone on that board thinks my Van is the shiznit for a family cruiser. And what have I learned? If you have a national or world wide forum you will end up with more problems than a local one for one major reason.
Local boards arguments can be settled out side the board. National/world wide ones they can talk all they want becasue they may be on the other side of the planet.
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: jkirchman on November 17, 2006, 04:11:17 PM
I just like Cougars. Always have, always will. Board or no board. But I think way more good than bad comes from people from all over being able to share their ideas and opinions. You just have to face the reality that you're going to have some real douche canoes show up more often than you would like. But that applies to pretty much anything you are involved in.
This board is great. I have been corresponding with Eric since 1997. I wish a lot of the newer guys could see how far we really have come in terms of what is available for these cars. Sure there are still some things that are hard to find, but you've got a few hundred people to help you find it now.
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: Ether947 on November 17, 2006, 04:57:58 PM
Yeah I saw most of that go down... I pretty much stopped paying attention after awhile because I didn't get the reasoning behind it. I figured it was more that what was really being said. Anyhoos...
Speaking of eBay TCs http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Thunderbird-turbo-coupe-1989-t-bird-200-mph-capable_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6240QQihZ003QQitemZ130047790230QQrdZ1
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: gumby on November 17, 2006, 05:24:56 PM
someone loved that car. i need more pics of that!
youd have a hard time buildin it for less than the BIN.....
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: ZondaC12 on November 18, 2006, 12:24:25 AM
Quote from: jkirchman;114160
I wish a lot of the newer guys could see how far we really have come in terms of what is available for these cars. Sure there are still some things that are hard to find, but you've got a few hundred people to help you find it now.
i keep hearing that this board has come a long way, i can imagine what this board was like when it was born. i mean, people come on here and ask all kinds of questions and i havent seen one too tough for someone to solve yet. it must have been like shooting in the dark without this huge knowledge base!
well you gotta start somewhere right? otherwise this place might not have been...
either this year or next i gotta go to Cat Jam. its pretty far but i know i gotta go, to actually meet the people that made this happen.
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: Tbird232ci on November 18, 2006, 10:21:39 AM
The biggest issue with boards such as NATO, is that they think the TC is so much more than it really is. In a thread, i heard something to the effect of "destroying such a rare classic". Since when have these cars been rare...or classic? Right now, the cars are in their akward stage. They arnt old enough to be desirable and worth much, but they arnt new enough to be all over the junkyards. To the owners looking for the parts, and looking for the cars, they may seem rare, because they are either out of their price range, or the ones they find are rough, but thats mostly because the people with nice ones arnt getting rid of them.
While yes, im all about preserving these cars, taking care of them, and hoping to see them around for years...we have to realize, theyre just cars, and can still be replaced.
Zonda, the people who created the forums arnt the only ones that make this community what it is. People like you and I are a big part of it too. We come in, soak up information, and then spread the word, and do our part in the community. Those are the people that gave us the means to carry the word.
Is it me...or did that sound religious?
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: Blackout on November 18, 2006, 06:07:17 PM
Great, I'm a member of a cult. Mom would be so proud....! ;)
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: martin0660 on November 18, 2006, 07:00:31 PM
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;114117
NATO used to be very laid-back and over the last 18 months they created 4 new mods, banned somebody over a personal disagreement, and now banned eBay links with a blanket rule and then snuffed out any dissenters.:
For me, the Ebay thing was not very important, but the comment of a certain moderator was the icing on the cake, and something that should be publically appoogized for. If its not, it would seem that is indeed policy, and people need to make some decissions if they suport a few making those decisisons on a board they pay for. I made mine, I'm, out of there.
Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;114117
I kept my very large mouth out of the whole affair, but it's sad to see a valued member leave the site over the mods comments, even though I WHOLEHEARTIDLY agree with that member. Just seems shady to me.
Eh, everybody knows how to contact me if neeeded, and I sure dont NEED anything they have to offer any more. I'm done over there, but if the members over there want THEIR site, they need to take it back.
LOL, If you dont like my opinion you can leave :shakeass: Sorry to drag this drama over here, but Mike started it. :sorry:
Bob Myers
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: P71 on November 18, 2006, 08:28:33 PM
Glad to hear from you Bob. ;) NO apology needed from you, NATO was 100% in the WRONG and since we can't vent about it over there, it's nice to be able to vent it here.
Title: Other Boards...
Post by: ZondaC12 on November 18, 2006, 09:08:52 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci;114275
The biggest issue with boards such as NATO, is that they think the TC is so much more than it really is. In a thread, i heard something to the effect of "destroying such a rare classic". Since when have these cars been rare...or classic? Right now, the cars are in their akward stage. They arnt old enough to be desirable and worth much, but they arnt new enough to be all over the junkyards. To the owners looking for the parts, and looking for the cars, they may seem rare, because they are either out of their price range, or the ones they find are rough, but thats mostly because the people with nice ones arnt getting rid of them.
While yes, im all about preserving these cars, taking care of them, and hoping to see them around for years...we have to realize, theyre just cars, and can still be replaced.?
this sounds like theyre an antique car-TC forum but decades before their time. youll find a similar attitude on the AACA forums where i go for my '38 buick. but those ARE old cars with often unique parts like the engine in my buick, a straight 8, and they often talk about seeing these cars with chevy 350/turbo 350 drivetrains and dual exhaust and mag wheels, other hot rod accessories.
what im seeing is that these NATO guys are thinking ALOT about the future, and want to see a lot of turbocoupes in original state WHEN they are old and not that replaceable anymore, like 30, 40 years from now. i CAN see their point, and feel for them, getting into the antique car hobby has made me like that with both of my cars but thats just not that practial right now with TCs. the people there that like to see stuff kept original should do that! keep their cars stock and add to the group of people with em like that. then they can be on the showfield years from now in the preservation/unrestored class if theyre lucky and their car hasnt rusted and worn away over the years, or in the restored original class if they restore it but still keep it true to what came from the factory.
but some people evidently like the TC but want different stuff (im gonna guess a lot of people put 302s in em or 351s and build em up or something?) they have that 8.8 rear end, and disc brakes in the rear right? and a lot have the T5 so its a good starting point. i personally dont see a problem. maybe in the future it WILL be a "rare classic destroyed" but isnt that universal? back in the 50s kids took ford victorias and stuff and ditched the fordomatic in favor of some 3spd stick, took maybe a buick nailhead 322 (pretty powerful) and did a boogered-up swap and blew the doors off everything. that would be a travesty in the antique car hobby today but then they were a-plenty and it was cool to have. it seems like NATO is trying to change this cliche which i too wish could change but when more average cars are like 10, 20 even 30 years old theyre not that valuable or rare so theyll get modded. no one knows whats gonna be the collectible, million-dollars-at-barrett-jackson car of the future.
as a last note, correct me if im wrong but arent these rare, classic cars valuable because theyre....um....RARE? sucks but a car cant be worth a ton if theyres tons of em around. simple economics...