General => Lounge => Topic started by: Evil86Saleen on November 11, 2006, 11:35:42 AM
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Evil86Saleen on November 11, 2006, 11:35:42 AM
Scenario.
Your driving down a hwy and a dog runs out in front of you. You hit the dog and kill it.
Do you
A. Get pissed, kick dead dog, throw it into the medium and be on your way.
or
B. Find dogs owner and spend your personal time to gather as much incriminating information as possible so that you can take the dead dogs owner to court over the damages done to your minivan.
Personally I would (have) chose A. Am I out of touch here thinking that going after the dead dogs owner is just plain silly and a big waste of time. Or should we as a people be more than willing to clog up the court system and waste our precious free time in trying to take a dead dogs owner to court over something as stupid as this.
kyle
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: jkirchman on November 11, 2006, 11:52:24 AM
Wow.
I would have been upset that I killed someone's dog. The thought of suing their owner for the damages caused by their dog never even crossed my mind until I read what you wrote.
I take it that this is currently happening to you or someone you know?
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: 84 Fila on November 11, 2006, 12:04:13 PM
How bad are the damages. I would honestly just have a sitdown with the owner about it and see where it goes. From there you can either settle it out ot court ot take legal action.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Evil86Saleen on November 11, 2006, 12:04:31 PM
Nope not me. A guy on another message board hit the dog and wants to take the guy to court over damages. I voiced my opinion and they jumped down my throat over it. Now they are talking about putting a lien against the dog owners house over a 500 dollar deductable.
Pretty crazy stuff if you ask me.
kyle
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Billyf17 on November 11, 2006, 12:34:21 PM
Its just the world we live in. Maybe back in the 80's and early 90's, turning the other cheek would have been fine. But now everyone is realizing that if someone makes a small mistake, such as not having their dog properly tied down, and it causes some innocent party damages, the innocent party has a legal right to receive money for their losses, even if inadvertant. It is a sad situation, but the owner of the minivan should not have to pay anything for any of the damages, nor the increase in his insurance rates from going through his carrier and not the dog's owner's carrier, because the owner of the dog couldn't control where his dog was.
Yeah, he is out of a dog, but it is his fault and not the minivan driver's fault....unless the driver of the van was gunning for the dog, which is unlikely in this situation.
It's just the way the laws are written. They are written to protect people against losses due directly from someone else's negligence. I for one am thankful for it. Some times you just have to do it, no matter how "wrong" it might feel. If someone's car lost its parking brake on a hill and the car coasted into your Cougar/T-bird, you would go after them, even though it isn't directly the other car's owner's fault. And never trust someone in saying "oh I'll pay for it, don't go through insurance." It still surprises me how many people use that line and then end up in court getting asked, "why didn't you just go through the insurance company." They 99% of the time are forced to pay after their appearance.
So all in all, the minivan drive should find the owner, and have his insurance pay. If he refuses, then it's off to court.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Evil86Saleen on November 11, 2006, 12:48:26 PM
Legally I'm sure that the dog owner will have to pay. The owner of the minivans insurance already told him that it will not raise his rates because he hit a animal.
I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong. However if I was the minivan driver the thought of taking some one to court over this would have never crossed my mind. Being from rural Iowa I have hit a many animals on the road. Some of them i know where pets and others where just wild animals. I dont know anyone who has ever done such a thing and I was just surprised.
If you where driving thru a government protected animal refuge and hit a deer could you make the state or federal government responsible for the damages?
Maybe I am just from a different part of the country or of a different mindset. The thought of taking some one to court over a 500 dollar deductable from hitting a runaway dog has never crossed my mind.
It just seems to me that we have become way to sue happy as a country. Accidents happen and as long as it was not malicious intent I dont see why we cant just deal with it and move on in life.
anyone remeber the McDonalds hot coffee debacle.
Or how about the idiot that bought the new expensive bicycle and then proceeded to ride the bike at night and got ran over by a motorist. He sued the bike manufacture fior not installing warning stikers on the bike to warn him of the dangers of riding at night.
Duh. Are people really that stupid.
Sorry. End of rant. Time to get back to work and fix VWs.
kyle
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Ifixyawata on November 11, 2006, 01:23:38 PM
Maybe if hitting the dog resulted in serious injuries and a serious crash, but otherwise, hell no. I'd be pretty upset if I killed someone's dog and I'd probably want to find out whose it was because I've had a puppy killed before.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Carl on November 11, 2006, 01:42:00 PM
I was driving back from work late one night and something ran out at me on a rural 55 MPH road. I could not stop so I hit it. I am unsure to this day if it was a dog or a possum. I just drove home, since I am I dog person it would have shook me up to go and find out.
Either way no damage to the cat.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: tbirdscott on November 11, 2006, 03:49:01 PM
They must be american..
Should the driver be charged with involuntary manslaughter? hit and run? no, they should quit their bitching, wash the sand out of their cu NEXT TUESDAY and pay for the damage themselves.
Who would he sue if it were an wild animal? Environment Canada?
Where is this guy located? I'd like to slap him upside the head.
Scott
[/rant]
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Beau on November 11, 2006, 06:09:54 PM
Sure, there's something can be done, although in this case, it's too late.
Ever hear of Comprehensive Insurance???
I don't think one can legally or otherwise put a lien against someones else's house because the first person ran over the second person's dog, and caused vehicle damage. It's also why cattle owners are required to have some sort of insurance in case stock gets out, and getshiznit...believe me, I learned this the hard way.
Personally, the guy that hit the dog, and is now trying to take action, is a dickwad.
Firstly, he should be sorry he hit the dog, regardless of who's to blame.
Second, if he has comp, then he needs to address the issue with his claims agent, not go off on his own...bad idea.
Third, not one state I've heard of has laws requiring to insure a DOG against a motor-vehicle collision...so...case dismissed! :dunce:
sorry if i seem like a you-know-what...but this is a bullsheet thing, and it happens all the time. Somebody runs my dog over, and then threatens to take my house..well, they'll probably need to see a dentist or 4 by the time I'm done with 'em! LOL:beatyoass:
BTW, what kinda minivan was this person in??? a cardboard car?? I've hit turkeys, other birds, deer, even a cow once....never had to replace more than lights, and once, a windshield, and guess what, my COMP insurance paid it ALL...(less deductible-but it did pay for all f the windshiled bill) I mean, whoop-dee-effin-doo if he has to get a bumper cover...unless he was doing 120, or the dog was as big as a shetland pony, he shouldn't have any damage, unless the vehicle is a total clunker and held together by God's grace and 475 feet of ducttape!!!! WTF...can anybody not be responsible for their own shiznit anymore??
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: tbirdscott on November 11, 2006, 06:47:09 PM
Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;112922
WTF...can anybody not be responsible for their own shiznit anymore??
No
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 11, 2006, 06:54:32 PM
Ya know, this may seem heartless of me, but if I hit somebody's dog I don't think I should be out $500 for somebody else's negligence, and a dog running loose is negligence. I'd want my deductible.
Wild animals are different - for one thing, the comprehensive portion of insurance pays for wild animals. Domestic animals comes out of your "collision" section and goes against your record. Many people don't carry collision because of the cost. They do so with the knowledge that if they are in an at-fault accident they're screwed. Hitting a dog would be considered an "at fault" accident. Also, wild animals are wild, They do not have people responsible for their upkeep and safety. A family dog has people responsible for it, and as such the people responsible should be, well, responsible.
Dog owners are not required to have insurance on their dogs, but they ARE required to control them, and they ARE responsible for the actions of the dog. In this case the actions of the dog caused its own death, which is certainly sad, but the driver of the car shouldn't be out $500. Judge Judy would set that dog owner straight.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Bird351 on November 11, 2006, 06:57:08 PM
And some people wonder why I don't want to raise a family in this sick society..
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: HAVI on November 11, 2006, 07:43:42 PM
Quote
And some people wonder why I don't want to raise a family in this sick society..
ditto
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Billyf17 on November 12, 2006, 12:56:07 AM
Yeah it sure is a sick society that people don't have to control their property and it can wreak havoc on other people's property and cause hundreds or thousands of dollars in damages. Thunder Chicken has it right. The owner of the dog is fully responcible for the dog. If it gets loose and causes a car accident, it's the owner's fault. End of story.
The society we live in is messed up...with corrupt political leaders, out of control corporations, and such, but not because people have to sue for money they are LEGALLY entitled to. You wrong me by damaging my car because you back into it, you run a red light, or your dog jumped a fence and ran out into the road, I am entitled to be in the same position I was in before your negligence.
A recent case on the People's Court pops into my head. A dog jumped the fence and was attacked by another dog. The owner of the fence jumper sued the other dog's owner and LOST because the fence couldn't contain the dog. The judge's own words were that his negligence for not having a fence that could contain his dog and not having the dog on a leash caused his dog the injuries it suffered and the other dog's owner WAS NOT responcible for the vet bills. It would be the exact same verdict in this case.
It's the way the laws are written...to protect the innocent party. If you can't live with that in this "sick" society, you are free to leave and live in a place where you have to eat your bills from damages caused by your neighbor. The case you should be worried about are the cases involving less than $100 dollars and the cases awarding hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to stupid people, not legitamate cases like this. Negligence is on the rise, not stupid reasons to sue people. And for those "stupid" lawsuits you people are refering to, the judge decides what is stupid and renders his/her verdict accordingly.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: tbirdscott on November 12, 2006, 01:38:57 AM
Quote from: Billyf17;112981
And for those "stupid" lawsuits you people are refering to, the judge decides what is stupid and renders his/her verdict accordingly.
Two words
McDonalds Coffee
:wtf:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Tbird232ci on November 12, 2006, 07:59:53 AM
People are rather heartless these days. If i hit someones dog, i would take the dog to the owners if the dog had a tag with the name/address/phone number. Depending on the damages, id either foot the bill, or at least try to have them partially compensate me.
You have to think, if youre observant while you drive, youll notice a dog just walking around, and when i see things like that, i get on edge and slow down. Paying attention could very well prevent most of these situations.
Minivan driver was probably speeding, and on his cell phone, or something similar. It had to have been a somewhat large dog to cause that much damage to require repair from the insurance company.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: 5.0willgo on November 12, 2006, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: Tbird232ci;112992
You have to think, if youre observant while you drive, youll notice a dog just walking around, and when i see things like that, i get on edge and slow down. Paying attention could very well prevent most of these situations.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Theres no telling how fast this guy was going, what he was doing or whatever. You can't trust his word as to what he posts online considering nobody that reads it was with him and could have a view on the situation. Obviously he is going to make himself the innocent victim.
Considering he wants to go after the owner for damages, maybe he was hoping the dog would run infront of him or he didn't do anything to try to avoid it so he could get something out of the situation.
Quote from: tbirdscott
Two words
McDonalds Coffee
That entire thing me off. I wonder if I go to McDonalds and spill a cold cup of pen 15e on my lap if I can go after them for the pen 15e being too cold or sticky.:pbb:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Billyf17 on November 12, 2006, 10:37:43 AM
Quote from: tbirdscott;112985
Two words
McDonalds Coffee
:wtf:
Umm...the sentence before that one clearly points out that I do not agree with those lawsuits....those are just people finding loop holes to make easy money. These people just have nothing better to do and have the money to begin with to hire a lawyer to handle everything. Cases involving things like the dog incident do not require a lawyer in court, but going to a lawyer for legal advice on what to do in this situation is an option.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: baxo on November 12, 2006, 10:51:38 AM
Only americans think of lawsuits for every reason. I got pissed at just the fact that someone is even considering suing someone else cuz their dog ran out in front of them. that's just childish. My dad used to drive a city bus.. a dog once ran out and he had to hit it.. did he go and sue the owner of the dog because the dog put the lives of many passengers on board in jeopardy? I dont think so. People just need to stop with this lawsuit bullshiznit.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: 84 Fila on November 12, 2006, 11:02:27 AM
:iagree:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Bird351 on November 12, 2006, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: Billyf17;112981
Yeah it sure is a sick society that people don't have to control their property and it can wreak havoc on other people's property and cause hundreds or thousands of dollars in damages. Thunder Chicken has it right. The owner of the dog is fully responcible for the dog. If it gets loose and causes a car accident, it's the owner's fault. End of story.
The society we live in is messed up...with corrupt political leaders, out of control corporations, and such, but not because people have to sue for money they are LEGALLY entitled to. You wrong me by damaging my car because you back into it, you run a red light, or your dog jumped a fence and ran out into the road, I am entitled to be in the same position I was in before your negligence.
A recent case on the People's Court pops into my head. A dog jumped the fence and was attacked by another dog. The owner of the fence jumper sued the other dog's owner and LOST because the fence couldn't contain the dog. The judge's own words were that his negligence for not having a fence that could contain his dog and not having the dog on a leash caused his dog the injuries it suffered and the other dog's owner WAS NOT responcible for the vet bills. It would be the exact same verdict in this case.
It's the way the laws are written...to protect the innocent party. If you can't live with that in this "sick" society, you are free to leave and live in a place where you have to eat your bills from damages caused by your neighbor. The case you should be worried about are the cases involving less than $100 dollars and the cases awarding hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to stupid people, not legitamate cases like this. Negligence is on the rise, not stupid reasons to sue people. And for those "stupid" lawsuits you people are refering to, the judge decides what is stupid and renders his/her verdict accordingly.
If I had the money to move, and didn't have any remaining family here to worry about, I would indeed move in a heartbeat. Some little corner of New Zealand, most likely.. where I would be much less likely to run into people like this. That's the thing about these "if you don't like it, leave" statements.. people like you never bother to think that the other person may have such concerns. You lack empathy.. and for that I truly pity you.
Thanks for pointing out one of the reasons I think this society is sick.. the entitlement mentality. That you defend it so vigorously says a lot about you in my book.
My dad once had to bury one of our cats that got hit by a truck. It was one of the few times I ever saw my father cry while describing how the cat's eye was hanging out of its socket. As if losing the cat wasn't disturbing enough, seeing him crying was just that much more unsettling to me. If the person who hit the cat had then turned around and sued us for whatever reason, quite frankly my father would have killed them.. and I'd have never thought less of him for it. Anyone he may have killed in Nam, he would've killed for less personal reasons (excluding self-preservation) than that.
We love our pets like members of the family. Some idiot blathering on about what they're entitled to probably never had a pet to show love to.. or is probably such a heartless tightwad materially-obsessed scumbag that a few hundred bucks is more important than the emotional scars they've left that still hurt 15 or 20 years later.. and the further scars their hideous actions would cause. Frankly, I'd rather have the pet still in the world than people like that.
Pets get loose now and again. It just happens. If you hit one of our pets and then turned around and sued us for damages to your f'n car.. well, if I didn't shoot you, one of my friends probably would.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: siscrew on November 12, 2006, 02:15:55 PM
:iagree:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: baxo on November 12, 2006, 05:28:42 PM
Yeah what people realise is that pets are like family members to some.. if let's say a Kid ran out in front of the car and damaged the car.. would you sue the family for having the kid run out in front of the car? I don't think so.. so why in the hell is it different when a pet goes in front? honestly.. Deaf kids.. blind kids.. handicapped kids sometimes can't be controlled just like some dogs.. not all dogs are intelligent enough not to run on the street for whatever reason.. should the owner be punished for that? especially if they loved that pet as if it was their kid? and then some asshole runs it over and sues them? I agree with Ben.. I would probably feel like killing the asshole who tries to sue me for that.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: fordguy on November 12, 2006, 05:49:14 PM
here is the original post, copied from the site. read the ORIGINAL post then chime in.
Hey everyone. I've never been to court before (other than jury duty) but I will be going on Monday morning and filing a claim against a you know what "hole" because he couldn't restrain his dog and as a result, I now have $1,000 worth of damages to my 2 year old van.
Last Tuesday my 8 year old daughter got "student of the week" at school so we decided to take her to the local mall to get her a small reward. Instead of taking our highway, I decided to take the more scenic route (4 lane road, 2 lanes in each direction) as we weren't in a hurry and there's more to look at on this road. The speed limit is 50 mph and I'd be surprised if I was even going 50.
Out of nowhere, a huge old dog walks directly out in front of me and WHAM!, CRASH!, BAM!, I hit him solid - twice. Instantly, my wife and kids are crying and yelling at me to pull over (I couldn't because there was another car beside me.) I let the other car pass me on my right and finally managed to pull into a liquor store where I got out and called the Police. I then looked at my '04 Ford Freestar's front bumper and noticed that it's totalled.
The Police came and advised me to fill out an 3 accident reports and submit them. Then they went next door to an animal hospital and had the doctor come out to remove the dog from the roadway. He was DOA.
Here's where the story gets totally messed up. I submitted my accident report to my insurance agent the next day and she said that they would fix it but that I'd have to come up with $500.00 for my deductible unless I could get the dog's owner to pay for it. I then went to 3 different Body shops and they all gave written estimates to repair the damage in the $990.00-$1,050.00 range. After thinking about it for a day or so, I realized that I shouldn't have to pay anything as I did nothing wrong. There is a leash law in his town and he failed to "contain his dog at all times." I also don't want to part with $500.00 when I need it for Christmas Presents.
Well, now I go to the animal hospital and speak to the doctor. He knows the dog well as it's always in his trash and he's worked on it in the past. He also let me know that the dog is always on the run and constantly running through traffic. From there, he tells me the name of the owner and gives me his address and phone number.
I contacted the owner and as polite as I can be, I let him know how sorry I felt for his loss and that there was nothing that I could have done. He told me that the dog was old and senile and that he "got away from his son" during their walk. The son then went home. From there, I let him know about my damaged van and explained the whole situation (again, as nice as I could be.) He let me know that he didn't have $500.00 either, so I replied that we could file a claim with his homeowner's insurance (that's what my agent advised me to do.) He said he'd check on it and call me back.
Well, two days passed and I haven't heard anything so I called him tonight. He began ranting and raving on the phone and threatened that if I called him again, there would be consequences rendered. I let him know that I'd see him in court and he hung up on me.
Am I asking for too much? I mean, I feel for the dog but it's not my fault that they let him out. Should I accept $500.00 out of my pocket when they're clearly the ones at fault? I feel that I'm not asking for too much. All I want is that my van gets fixed to the same condition that it was in prior to the accident.
Has anyone else had to sue someone before? How does it all work? I'm going to the courthouse on Monday morning and I'm going to file a lawsuit for the $1,000.00. I just want what's fair.
Oh, sorry for the length. I think this is my longest post ever. __________________
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 12, 2006, 06:45:11 PM
Hmmm...in Jan. 1996 I washiznit on the driver's side front fender by a kid who ran a stop sign. The insurance company was very close to totalling out the car (the old black '86) but we negotiated to help rebuild it using my parts. So part of the car was in really good shape for most of 1996.
Fast forward to Nov. 1996...I was coming home at night down a windy road with some very, very light snowflakes in the air, nothing accumulating, and nobody else on the road at all. As I came around a corner, there was Marmaduke standing in the middle of the road. At first I thought it was a deer...then I realized it was way too ugly to be a deer. ;) Anyway, in a split-second decision I swerved to completely miss the dog, because he definitely would have crunched up my recently-fixed front end (and probably have gone through the windshield right at me, with my luck). Ended up on the other side of the road, in the ditch...the front bumper hit a culvert. The entire driver's side of the car was in the ditch, totally f'ed up--including all the stuff the body shop just fixed. Bumper cover was done in, along with the front air dam. I was okay, but as I rummaged through the trunk to get my tire iron and, um, gently say hello to poochie, he took off into the woods. F&%*er.
When the police arrived, I was filing the report with the officer in the police car. He was a really cool dude, amazingly. I made a comment that there was a lot of bass kicking out of the stock radio in the cop car (newer Caprice) and he said, "Yeah, it sounds really good...but , this 350 is amazing...lots of power, lots of fun!" Well, it was small talk because I thought for sure that nobody would believe me ("Sure officer, not my fault, there was this big dog, see..."). Plus I was going about 5 mph over the speed limit and readily admitted it. I wasn't kissing ass, just trying to show that I wasn't a hostile driver...anything at that point to get on his good side.
There was suddenly a knock on his window. He told me to hold still, and I saw him unsnap the clasp on his gun holster. He put the window down partway and shined his Mag-lite right in some dude's face. Dude asked the cop if anyone had seen a big dog that he was missing. Right then and there, I was vindicated! Thank you, Mr. Dumbass, whomever you are! The cop told him about the leash laws and he just walked away, but we found out where he lived (right across the street).
After I got a copy of the police report I contacted my attorney to see about pressing charges. He told me that "it wouldn't be worth anyone's time" to do it. I thought maybe there was something the insurance company could do...they pretty much advised me about the same thing. I was lost and hopeless. They were right. Then my buddy told me he knew the kid. And the kid had a Ford Ranger that he took to car shows. So I had the dude's name, knew where he lived, and knew what he drove. Also learned about his favorite hangouts.
And eventually...I "collected" from him. ;)
The point is that, even though there was a loose dog in a township with leash laws, the entire accident was largely in the realm of being "my" fault. I was the one that swerved and went into the ditch. Technically, if that dumbass hadn't helped me out, I might have been cited for failure to control the vehicle, speeding, and probably half a dozen other violations that Ohio cops like to tack onto any citation. And I knew that it was "my" fault, prepared all along to take full reponsibility. I was never charged with anything. But I never received monetary compensation for the damages either. Everything was in a big grey area, meaning things could have gone my way or against me. Flip a coin.
I think this dude's story is very compelling. I am definitely on his side as it seems that he did nothing wrong. And the vet's testimony that the dog was always loose could help him out in a big way. But...it could also stir up a lot of bad feelings if the vet is close to the dog's family since they are clients. He should probably just count his blessings that he and his family are safe, that no other humans or vehicles were injured, and that the minivan is still driveable. Ironically, it sounds like hitting the dog probably was in the best interest of the dog, with irresponsible owners like that. I hate to see animals die in such a violent way but...it happens, it was just a bad timing thing, that's all. The dog didn't deserve to be hit in exactly the same way that the driver's minivan didn't deserve to be damaged. I believe that's what's known as a tie. Pay to have it fixed, forget about the dog's owners and go on with life. All that litigation just isn't worth the hassle.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Beau on November 12, 2006, 07:16:19 PM
Now THAT is the best thing I've read in this thread all day. (and BTW, musta been a helluva big dog to do a grand's worth of damage to a new van-wonder if the 'bags got popped?)
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Bird351 on November 12, 2006, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;113061
but as I rummaged through the trunk to get my tire iron and, um, gently say hello to poochie, he took off into the woods. F&%*er.
Un-****ing-believable. You mean to tell me you would beat an animal to death for the hideous crime of standing in the middle of the road, as if the dog is supposed to know that where it stands is a capital offense? Just when I was starting to develop an ounce of respect for you..
Dogs are not people. Dogs do not inherently know where they should and should not stand. YOU should know better than to expect the dog to know better by default.
If I saw someone doing that to an animal, I would do to them everything they did to that animal.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: tbirdscott on November 12, 2006, 09:14:43 PM
Oh, well after reading his touching story the dog owner should pay for everything then after its all nice and fixed get down on his knees and....
His story doesnt flow, "Out of nowhere, a huge old dog walks directly out in front of me" it didnt run, it didnt bound, it didnt scamper, it didnt even jump out al nimbly bimbly, it WALKED out in front of him and he was in the inside lane of a 4 lane highway, how did he not see the "huge old dog"?
I still say he should suck it up and tell the kids they arent getting anything for christmas (which is another big scam, dont even get me started....) and fix the van, seriously $1000 isnt that hard to save up, cut out the starshmucks coffee and there you have a few hundred a month saved.
Quote from: FordTruckFreeek;113065
and BTW, musta been a helluva big dog to do a grand's worth of damage to a new van-wonder if the 'bags got popped?)
You see how big those bumper covers are? say $300 for a new bumper cover, $500 for paint and labour (colour match, 2-stage paint) tack on the taxes and your there, doesnt take much to add up.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Beau on November 12, 2006, 09:15:25 PM
I wouldn't have swerved, wouldn't have hit the ditch either... Better a dog and bumper, than possibly my life. Yeah, it's an animal...but hey, shiznit happens, somebodies dog gets loose, and getshiznit..to me, well...shiznit happens.
And...I think he may have been joking...but in the heat of the moment, I'd have probably grabbed something large and heavy, and chased after Rover myself...whether or not I'd actually club it or not is debatable...
I feel like I've got a bit of room to speak here, as last week my best friend's house dog (who they let roam at will-no leash laws, etc) was almost killed by being hit by a car.
I laid in to them, told them they need to get a pen built, or be ready to take her ass out on a leash, so they wouldn't have a repeat. Too bad not all owners are so lucky. I'm taking neither side here, (or trying not too)..while I'm not going to ask someone to deliberatley endanger theirselves by swerving around MY dog, should one of mine get loose, it would suck badly to lose one that way. It's just a shiznitty situation, with no "easy way out"...i fail to see why dog's owner must pay for damages...much less the whole shebang, when the deductible is only 500 dollars.... I use the term: Abortion of Justice for shiznit like this...this will be a classic case if the guy does get that amount from the owner of the dog. With that said, I can't wait to go deer hunting tomorrow! :grinno:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 12, 2006, 10:14:04 PM
Ok, here's an example: Back shortly after high school graduation a buddy of mine was riding his motorcycle home from work at night and a medium sized dog ran out in front of him, right out of somebody's yard. He hit the dog and dropped his bike at about 30 MPH. The bike was totalled and he had a broken leg. The dog was killed as well. He sued the dog owner not only for the value of the bike, but for his injuries (he couldn't work for six months, had to delay university by a year, and was unable to play hockey ever again). Was he right to be so "heartless", or should he have "sucked it up" and accepted his injuries, a lost year at school, and the loss of his motorcycle because a dog owner didn't lock the gate? Would it have been any better if he had only sued for the injuries and ignored the fact that his bike was wrecked?
To think somebody should just accept a substantial loss because somebody else was negligent is ridiculous. Feeling bad about hitting the dog is a given, but swallowing what amounts to a rent or car payment for a lot of people is not right. Everybody here can say it's heartless all they want, but if it was you looking at your wrecked car and wondering how you're gonna be able to afford to repair (or, in the case of most of our cars, replace) it you'd be singing a different tune. Tbirdscott: $1000 is a month's pay for many people. I could come up with it, and apparently so could you, but there are a lot of people that can't, especially two months before Christmas. And nobody should have to in this case, except the person responsible. The dog owner.
The minivan owner also brought up a valid point about insurance. The dog owner's homeowner's policy should cover the deductible. The dog owner wouldn't even be out anything (there is no deductible for a liability claim). He likely just couldn't be bothered to look into it and make the claim. And if the dog owner doesn't have insurance, well, that's his problem.
Like I said: Wild animals are different. Wild animals cannot reasonably be restrained. They don't have "owners". When you own a dog you do so with the understanding that you are responsible for it. You are responsible for making sure the dog is safe, and you are responsible for making sure the dog does not damage other people's property. In other words, the dog should be safe and the public should be safe from the dog. The owner of that dog failed on both counts.
How 'bout if the van driver didn't hit the dog, but was instead walking his own dog, on a leash, along the sidewalk and the other dog attacked it? How 'bout if the other dog bit this guy's dog, but the guys dog fought back and killed the attacker, but ended up with an infection that cost $500 to have the vets take care of? Should the dog walker still be responsible? Or should he feel bad about the dead dog and "suck it up"? This may seem like a different matter but it isn't - in the end, the innocent person suffered a loss due to the negligence of the dog owner. Whether the $500 was to repair a minivan bumper or an infected dog bite the owner of the unrestrained dog is responsible.
As for if it were a child, this argument is irrelevant because it wasn't a child. I, personally, would not know what I would do if I ever hit a child. If I ever did, my car would be the least of my worries, I'm sure. But I can pretty much guarantee that if it came known that the child was known for wandering in the streets and that the parents didn't properly take care to prevent this, the police would certainly have something to say to them (and would likely charge them with neglect. Would the police be "heartless"?).
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Ifixyawata on November 12, 2006, 10:16:33 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci;112992
You have to think, if youre observant while you drive, youll notice a dog just walking around, and when i see things like that, i get on edge and slow down. Paying attention could very well prevent most of these situations.
Bullshiznit, that guy shouldn't HAVE to pay attention. Public roads are places where any person has the RIGHT to drive without caution. This is America. And people like you, slowing down for dogs that should be locked into a 2'x3' pen, are causing all the traffic problems and accidents in this great country of ours.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 12, 2006, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Bird351;113082
Un-****ing-believable. You mean to tell me you would beat an animal to death for the hideous crime of standing in the middle of the road, as if the dog is supposed to know that where it stands is a capital offense? Just when I was starting to develop an ounce of respect for you..
Dogs are not people. Dogs do not inherently know where they should and should not stand. YOU should know better than to expect the dog to know better by default.
Beat to death? I never said that. Actually the impromptu plan was to just take the dog out at the kneecaps, THEN go find its owner. ;) As it so happened, I found the owner eventually. So no harm to the dog. Turned out the dog died a little over a year after my incident because it was roughly 12-13 years old, and as you know, older large dogs develop severe arthritis in their legs and joints. Which means the owners shouldn't let the dogs play near the road if they know the joints are that bad. I wasn't the dumbass that let the dog out. But I did have to deal with that dumbass' negligence and make a split second decision. I opted to avoid hitting the dog. With the car.
I expect nothing from domesticated animals but to obey their owners and to not play on the road (in other words, know their boundaries). In this case the dog did neither. It was obvious that the owners didn't have that much care for the animal if it was out walking the streets late at night, in the cold. And I seriously doubt they had trained the dog to stay away from the street since, obviously, it was standing in the middle of it. None of that was my fault. If I had hit the dog with the car I would have been upset about it, no doubt. But I didn't. So...you can unbunch your panties now.
Quote from: Thunder Chicken
Ok, here's an example: Back shortly after high school graduation a buddy of mine was riding his motorcycle home from work at night and a medium sized dog ran out in front of him, right out of somebody's yard. He hit the dog and dropped his bike at about 30 MPH. The bike was totalled and he had a broken leg. The dog was killed as well. He sued the dog owner not only for the value of the bike, but for his injuries (he couldn't work for six months, had to delay university by a year, and was unable to play hockey ever again). Was he right to be so "heartless", or should he have "sucked it up" and accepted his injuries, a lost year at school, and the loss of his motorcycle because a dog owner didn't lock the gate? Would it have been any better if he had only sued for the injuries and ignored the fact that his bike was wrecked?
Point taken...that really sucks for your friend. I hope he's doing okay now...?
But there is a HUGE diffence between hitting a dog on a motorcycle or in a car. This person was not injured. Your friend was. This person didn't lose time off of school or work. Your friend did. This person didn't lose any wages. Your friend did. This person has only a front bumper to fix. Your friend lost his whole bike. These are two totally different situations.
Your friend had a right to sue. And I hope he did, and got everything, and more, that he deserved. This person will have over $1000 in lawyer's and court fees if he decides to proceed with a claim, which would most likely be in small claims court. And trust me, I had to help defend someone in a small claims case. Just because you win doesn't mean the other party will pay. Even if, somehow, the insurance company of the homeowner pays, it's not going to be the full $1000. No insurance company would be that generous. He would be much better off to save up the money himself and get it fixed, than to waste more than he'd ever get for absolutely nothing. Yes, it is the principle of the situation and as I stated before, I'm on the guy's side too. But I don't see a large victory coming in his direction either.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 12, 2006, 11:06:04 PM
Quote from: EricCoolCats;113147
This person didn't lose any wages. Your friend did.
Seems to me he's losing about $500 worth of his wages, unless he gets his money by some other means.... :shakeass:
Quote from: EricCoolCats;113147
This person will have over $1000 in lawyer's and court fees if he decides to proceed with a claim, which would most likely be in small claims court....
*snip*
Yes, it is the principle of the situation and as I stated before, I'm on the guy's side too. But I don't see a large victory coming in his direction either.
Oh, I didn't say it was worth it to sue, I just said he's every bit within his right to do so ;) Everybody's shiznittin' on the van owner for suing, nobody's sayin' a thing about the guy that caused the problem through negligence not owning up to his responsibilities. Like I said: Judge Judy would have a field day. If I were the van owner I'd be trying to get on the show...
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 12, 2006, 11:14:08 PM
Quote
Like I said: Judge Judy would have a field day. If I were the van owner I'd be trying to get on the show...
Impressive. You actually get Judge Judy up there? ;)
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 12, 2006, 11:18:21 PM
Oh yeah. We got electricity installed last week. No more crankin' the laptop :hick:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: tbirdscott on November 12, 2006, 11:19:38 PM
This thread originated on four eyed pride by the way, if anyone wants to go check it out.
Scott
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Billyf17 on November 13, 2006, 12:05:38 AM
I love how this turned real personal real quick. If this is supposed to be like a family, this forum, why is it that I feel like the brother that no one wants around? Why is it once someone has a different opinion about something like this, they become targets? So what I defend my rights, does that mean I should have to live with death threats and harsh name calling? Big deal, it's only the internet...but it still doesn't mean I don't fear for my life after someone clearly says that if I wrong them in such and such a way, they will take my life away. And if shooting me wouldn't do it, then clearly saying that I'd be better off never have been born so he could have a pet back....cold.......
I have a lot to offer...but not if the community would rather have me shot...or never born......or just not around. I like the cars...but I'll be ed if I share any information, or parts that I may someday make, or anything for that matter, with a community that makes me feel I'd be better off dead because of a differing opinion.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Bird351 on November 13, 2006, 12:28:31 AM
Death threats? DEATH THREATS?! Man, I had hoped you would be smarter than that.
Do you PLAN on coming to southwest Florida with the express intent of running my pets over and then suing me for damages to your car? Because that is the only possible way that what I said would matter. You could not possibly be planning to drive a thousand miles just to run someone's cat down and then sue them for it, can you? Since I'm guessing the likelihood of that nears the impossibly absurd, (like about the same odds that it will begin raining monkeys in my living room while my asshole spontaneously breaks out farting out random Pink Floyd songs) you're making something out of nothing. You cannot possibly be THAT stupid, can you?
Please.. for ****'s sake.. cut the bullshiznit. You cannot possibly be so completely dense as to think that what I said is a likely scenario. If you were that dense, we would all be instantly killed as your head collapsed in upon itself and formed a new black hole, sucking the planet in to its doom.
Okay.. here's a pic of some fluffy puppies to calm you down. Don't run them over.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: xr7cat on November 13, 2006, 12:53:44 AM
I think a lot of things have been taking out of context... who here has not said or thought of doing something "in the heat of the moment".
Yeah pets are like family but they are pets. and if one is running loose then it is the owners responsibility.
There are a lot of valid points that have been brought up, but why do some take things real personal and other just shrug it off? Personally, While reading the thread I would be pissed about the dog hitting van, and yes I would have gone through the steps that were pointed out but... if insurance would pay of the repair I would only ask for the amount of the deductible... that is what makes me mad is people going for more than is necessary.
And I would pay to have the car fixed right away and seek damages later, I mean what if court were to drag on for a year?? You vehicle would most likely suffer more damage from the damage and then you'd be out more money.
With the bike thing, going for medical expenses and bike replacement and wages yes, but school?? Maybe, but there are other ways to handle school.
Still though people when driving so be observant there would be A LOT less accidents if they were.
Daniel
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: tbirdscott on November 13, 2006, 02:35:46 AM
Quote from: xr7cat;113199
Still though people when driving so be observant there would be A LOT less accidents if they were.l
I went to town today, do some shopping etc and on the way there I came around a corner and there was a german sheppard standing in the middle of my lane, guess what happened!
I downshifted, applied the brakes, slowly swerved in to the middle of the road (icy/loose gravel) and went straight past the dog! :eek: yeah! right around it! and the scary part was I had the stereo cranked, I was fiddling with the settings, I was speeding, and there was a 3/4 ton CN rail truck coming the other way! and to top it all off this was only a two lane road! I dont know how I did it! all that with only a few years of driving experience! OMG! I'm so lucky to have survived!
Scott :rolleyes:
Just think that you will experience an accident every 5 miles on the highway and every 1 mile in populated areas, your responsibility as a driver is to look for these accidents coming and avoid them, if you cant do that then you shouldnt be driving.
I know I know shiznit happens and you cant avoid all of them but 99% or better can be avoided if your not an asshat.
PS: Yes, I do realise i'm an asshole, no need to type up a reply to let me know as I am well aware of the fact, thank you for your understanding.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Ifixyawata on November 13, 2006, 04:07:54 AM
Quote from: Bird351;113193
Okay.. here's a pic of some fluffy puppies to calm you down. Don't run them over.
Oh man, that's not funny, but it is, heh.
Ok, so after reading this I can honestly say, in this case, maybe the dog owner should help out with the insurance deductible. I think the minivan driver should push his case through and work his way up through the court system. Maybe he could get even more money out of the guy. Maybe a quarter million or so for mental anguish. YEARS and years of counseling will be necessary. You know what? Screw a quarter mil, that should get between 5 and 7 million. Then he can buy one of these for everyone he knows:
Then he can talk on the phone, rock out to music, drink lattes and run over horses, cows, donkeys and cats without a second thought.
PS - Now I see we've got people over there calling us idiots. No good can come of this.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: tbirdscott on November 13, 2006, 04:36:46 AM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;113207
PS - Now I see we've got people over there calling us idiots. No good can come of this.
Meh, theyre just mustang guys.
Scott
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: jkirchman on November 13, 2006, 11:03:26 AM
Okay now that I've read the whole story (and this whole thread...man you guys can sure get worked up!) it seems fair for the driver of the minivan to be compensated for his $500.
HOWEVER, if I were in his situation I would probably just forget about it. If there are two things that are most definitely not quick, they are insurance companies and the United States justice system. This would most likely be a small claims court situation, which means no lawyers. It also means that the other party does not even have to show up if they are summoned. So this guy would have to pay the court cost and then there is no guarantee the other guy is even going to be there.
To me, that is WAY more than $500 worth of hassle, and something I would simply choose not to deal with. It actually has happened to me before now that I think of it. With my first Cougar. I had just gotten it painted and had the new ground effects installed. I was leaving church one evening and a dog ran out in front of me and I hit it. Totally screwed the paint and messed up the front air dam. I paid to have it repaired myself. Never even thought of suing the dog's owner.
Then again, if more people today took responsibility for their actions or, in this case, the actions of pets in their care, then there would not be a reason to sue anyone over things like this.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: slamedcat on November 13, 2006, 11:34:41 AM
One comment and I'm out of here:
Do you think this guy realizes what he is saying is in public domain so the person he is sueing could possibly take this info to court and use it aginst him?
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: LittleAngel1198 on November 13, 2006, 12:09:50 PM
Quote from: Ifixyawata;113135
Bullshiznit, that guy shouldn't HAVE to pay attention. Public roads are places where any person has the RIGHT to drive without caution. This is America. And people like you, slowing down for dogs that should be locked into a 2'x3' pen, are causing all the traffic problems and accidents in this great country of ours.
:stupid:
That has GOT to be the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen posted on any message board!
Where the fornicatek did you get your license? Whoever gave it to you should be shot posthaste! And you should have your license take away ASAP.
Driving includes being cautious and paying attention! You have to pay attention to weather conditions, road conditions, other vehicles, people, theres a whole freaking list!
Man, that statement me off so much, I can't even continue.....
DUMBASS!:beatyoass: :flame:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: 46Tbird on November 13, 2006, 12:39:46 PM
If you are on the side of the van owner, I really don't understand your logic.
When you drive, it is YOUR responsibility to keep YOUR vehicle off of other objects in the road, whether it be another car, a guardrail, a dog, a child, lumber, a ladder, etc. Your awareness is the only thing that keeps you from backing straight out of your driveway and into your neighbor's house. So be aware!!
I've got 155K miles on my Ranger, I bought it new and I've never crashed it. Were there some close calls? Yes. Did I avoid them? Yes. That's my responsibility behind the wheel, regardless of what is in the road in front of me. If I hit something with it, that means I was driving recklessly or not paying attention. Period.
As for the guy with the dog, I can see that he was irresponsible with the animal, and the consequence was that his dog is dead. If you SUE the guy for $500, you're going to be waiting YEARS for him to pay it anyway. Funny that spending $500 will impact your kids' Christmas, yet taking $500 from him - and GETTING A LIEN AGAINST HIS HOUSE - won't affect his family's finances. :rolleyes: Just drop it. If you screw this guy's LIFE over a dog and $500, he is going to use the address from the court documents to make your existence miserable. I know I would, no matter what the legal judgement was... but that's Texas for you. We don't screw with our neighbors over piddly money. If you can afford a Windstar or whatever that POS is, you can afford a $500 deductible - f'ing whiner.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: EricCoolCats on November 13, 2006, 12:45:37 PM
Brian was just being sarcastic, y'all...
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: LittleAngel1198 on November 13, 2006, 01:06:25 PM
Ok, I can understand that Eric, but dayum!! to make that kind of statement on a board where there are teen drivers, who may not have as much experience as some of us.... it is really irresponsible to make that kind of statement.
*Sorry Brian, I didn't realize you were being sarcastic about it.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: jkirchman on November 13, 2006, 01:08:03 PM
Quote
Brian was just being sarcastic, y'all...
Some people apparently haven't learned to read every single one of his posts with a sarcastic tone in mind...:rolleyes:
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Ifixyawata on November 13, 2006, 05:15:19 PM
Sorry, Karen, didn't mean to get anyone that worked up. Maybe I have to put the [Sarcasm] tags around my posts again. I tend to forget that text doesn't come across with the same inflection that spoken words do. Sorry I ruffled so many feathers. I don't believe there's anyone that actually believes what I posted quoting shawn. When I started reading this thread I was on the side of the dog owner 100%, now I'm undecided on the whole thing.
There are a few points I'd like to bring up.
- The van driver was unsuccessful at getting $500 for his deductible. (You know, the out-of-court attempt.) Why would going after $1k+ have any better success?
- I read some posts on the original forum and one or two people suggested that the van driver '..sue his ass off...' and to '...go for mental anguish...' THAT, friends, is what frivilous lawsuits spuppies from. No, I'm not saying this one is frivolous, but I don't think the guy will have much luck. I'm not sure how in the hell one person could sue the other's ass off. And I'm pretty sure there's no monetary 'sliding scale' for the degree of one's mental anguish.
- I'm a dog lover and I can see where someone (not neccessarrily our dog owner here) can suffer a great loss when a pet is killed. Let alone splattered in 'pieces' as the original thread says. I can't pass judgement, but it's very possible that the dog's owner is a.) Too old to even take care of himself, b.) NOT a dog lover like some of us here and could give a shiznit less, c.) Just an asshole. It's possible that, for this dog owner, he figures 'good riddance'.
There's really not enough 'evidence' here for me, or anyone except the sole parties involved to make any kind of judgement. I really agree with Jim and 46Tbird's responses as they both seem to offer fair and even-tempered ideas. Which is more than I can say about my rant from earlier in the post. I know Shawn and I knew he'd probably realize I was being sarcastic but I guess I didn't think beyond that. Sorry if anyone else got worked up over this. It's just teh intarweb! :pbb:
:cheers: Here's to hoping this thread can remain (or become) a civil discussion.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: LittleAngel1198 on November 13, 2006, 06:02:23 PM
Nah Brian, I jumped the gun...I should have realized you wouldn't say something that stupid! LOL
I've been having a couple bad weeks...lots of pain and the brain isn't working quite right. Sorry I jumped ya.
Title: Would you sue some one over....
Post by: Haystack on November 14, 2006, 07:59:14 PM
I have a few things to say. First off, there is no reason to have a problem over anything anyone has said here. They are just people's opinions. I am sure that all of us would react diffrentally in the exact same situation.
If I were in my $110 200,000+ mile car, I would probably have just said wow there was a dog there. Gee imagine if it was a little kid... Then I would have just started my car back up and driven home.
If I were in a 2004 windstar, crusing to the mall with my whole family I would have reacted about the same. Its a brand new car first off, and secondly, the guy sounds like he would be a sensible driver. I would try to avoid it all auto cross like in my car, but not in a mini-van with my whole family in it. Specially if there were little kids in the car, which it sounds like there was. I would just have stepped on the brakes and tried to get over a lane or two. Sounds like what the guy did to me.
I am sure that all of us would feel victimized. Why dosen't the guy have to pay for the dog, and the mental anguish of the family that owns the dog? If it was a little kid he would have possibly gone to jail. Now he is getting off with a $1000 fix it ticket a pat on the back and a life lesson.
Also, you dont know what the guy's situation was. You don't know if he is out of a job right now, or barely making rent. Although he could be a millionare.
Long story short, it dosen't really matter what happened to us.