General => General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion => Topic started by: 4bangen on November 07, 2006, 11:17:57 AM
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 07, 2006, 11:17:57 AM
ok this is an iffy thread here, may even be borderline treasen. as some of you know I have two turbocoupes, one is an 88 5speed. the other an 87 auto. my 5speed is my baby and will stay a turbo4. but I've been brainstorming on what to do with the 87. I want to make it a purpose built dragracer. let me give you some backstory on the car. it has a cracked head and a bad ihi turbo the car is an auto with a gernade of an a4ld inside the trans tunel. the body is mostly strait exept for both rear corners are dented. driverside is not so bad and will pop out but the pas side is gona need abit more attention. ok so here's what I'm thinking I've got 3 main ideas. #1 2.3t with a holset, stinger header, eslinger head and cam, n2o and race exast(4inch downpipe out behind passenger front tire) all ths attached to a c4, with a manual valve body and a trans brake. #2 s the 2.3l all together and go big! a n2o fed carbed 460ci. #3 a turbocharged small block, like a 351w. this way it will still be a turbocoupe. so what do yall think?
Title: four or eight?
Post by: vinnietbird on November 07, 2006, 11:19:36 AM
I have to pick what's behind door number 3.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: dominator on November 07, 2006, 12:27:35 PM
Agreed
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 88turbo on November 07, 2006, 12:46:00 PM
#3
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 46Tbird on November 07, 2006, 12:51:45 PM
I wouldn't put six grand into a four cylinder to go 12s... just not my deal I guess.
Get a 302/351 and do what you want with it. They're cheap, easy to build and modify, and will run good numbers in a heavy car. Don't be stuck on turbos, although that is a great option. They can get very expensive if you look to the aftermarket for all your parts.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 07, 2006, 01:36:21 PM
I'm starting to lean tward #4 a carbed 351w on the bottle. sounds cheep and powerfull to me.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Clayton on November 07, 2006, 03:11:25 PM
the bottle is a cheap power adder, but will cost you more in the long run.
it kills your motor quick, and IMHO isnt worth the money you pay for it
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Blackout on November 07, 2006, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: 46Tbird;112143
I wouldn't put six grand into a four cylinder to go 12s... just not my deal I guess./QUOTE]
SIX GRAND to get into the 12's??? I hardly think so. You can make the 2.3 go just as fast as a 5.0 with spending just about as much on mods. The most expensive mod i can think of is an Esslinger head, wich runs about a grand.....Used. I'm a TC purist, so I'd say this: Get a new Turbo ( or a decent JY one) an essliger head, some porting and gutting, a stinger FMIC, and some other go-fast goodies. Use the block yuou alreay have. Unless you have another engine just laying around with all of the swap parts, I dont think its worth it (unless money isnt an issue.) Skip the NOS, go with an aftermarket fuel setup and a larger pump. A built C4 would be nice as well. Just my :2c:
NOW.... that being said:
IF the motor is completely trashed, and i do mean completely unsavable, then I'd say go with # 3. starting from scratch, the most bang for your buck.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 84 Fila on November 07, 2006, 06:15:35 PM
I vote #3 or 4
Title: four or eight?
Post by: turbo88 on November 07, 2006, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: Birdman;112189
Quote from: 46Tbird;112143
I wouldn't put six grand into a four cylinder to go 12s... just not my deal I guess./QUOTE]
SIX GRAND to get into the 12's??? I hardly think so. You can make the 2.3 go just as fast as a 5.0 with spending just about as much on mods.
I agree #1 would be my choice although i am bias. . . very few people build up a Domestic 4cyl drag car, and it makes it all worth while after you wax a v8 guy with your 2.3 pinto motor :shakeass:
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 46Tbird on November 07, 2006, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: turbo88
very few people build up a Domestic 4cyl drag car
You know why that is?
Title: four or eight?
Post by: cougrrr302 on November 07, 2006, 08:13:38 PM
Why not build a stroker 347? I dont see many anywhere. Thats how I plan to do it.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 88turbo on November 07, 2006, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: cougrrr302;112226
Why not build a stroker 347? I dont see many anywhere. Thats how I plan to do it.
I have the same plan for my 79 cougar
Title: four or eight?
Post by: gumby on November 07, 2006, 08:32:07 PM
Quote from: 46Tbird;112209
You know why that is?
because they are closed minded and scared :nkhk:
:shakeass:
Title: four or eight?
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on November 07, 2006, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: 87thunderbirdBlackJack;112170
the bottle is a cheap power adder, but will cost you more in the long run.
it kills your motor quick, and IMHO isnt worth the money you pay for it
depends on the tune. last nitrous motor i ran went 3 yrs with a ton of street miles and probly 10-15 passes a weekend on it and would go through 3 10pnd bottles a week ;)
Title: four or eight?
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on November 07, 2006, 08:54:07 PM
i have to go for option 1
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Blown306Cougar on November 07, 2006, 08:57:58 PM
Quote from: turbo88;112208
Quote from: Birdman;112189
I agree #1 would be my choice although i am bias. . . very few people build up a Domestic 4cyl drag car, and it makes it all worth while after you wax a v8 guy with your 2.3 pinto motor :shakeass:
:laughing: :laughing:
all though i will not argue that a 2.3 can make BIG HP but!! if i want to hear the sound of an egg beater i'll just goto walmart or something and but one.. plug it in and beat some eggs :rollin: :raspberry
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Blackout on November 08, 2006, 05:17:35 AM
LOL this is getting hillarious! :) Now just for arguments sake, yeah, my Turbo four doesnt sound like a nicely tuned V8, but it doesnt sound like an egg beater either!1 lOL Like I said, everybody has their opinions, but like I said I'm biased because I like to be different. I like going to my car shows and seeing everybody open their hoods..... 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 350, 350, 350,......2.3T??? WTF??? and my car usually gets the attention. If I wanted what everybody else had under the hood, I'd buy a 5.0 mustang and be unorigional.
So Kiss My:shakeass: :nkhk: :birdsmily: :headbang:
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Dogcharmer on November 08, 2006, 08:32:06 AM
Quote from: Blown306Cougar;112242
Quote from: turbo88;112208
:laughing: :laughing:
if i want to hear the sound of an egg beater i'll just goto walmart or something and but one.. plug it in and beat some eggs :rollin: :raspberry :grinno:
If I remember correctly my 4cyl turbo sounded more like a blender than an egg beater.
I vote twin turbo V8... BTW, I have some ceramic coated twin turbo headers with T3 s that I'd be willing to part with if you do go with option 3:D
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 08, 2006, 09:09:15 AM
Quote from: Dogcharmer;112322
Quote from: Blown306Cougar;112242
I vote twin turbo V8... BTW, I have some ceramic coated twin turbo headers with T3 s that I'd be willing to part with if you do go with option 3:D
that's cool. wow I came here for some clairity, but all this has done is remind me why I can't make up my mind! I thnk every one is right!!!
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Chuck W on November 08, 2006, 10:11:43 AM
NO, the 2.3T sounds like a lawn tractor on crack....
My car has been referred to as sounding "Eerie", "Twisted", "You know there's something going on there", "Making all kinds of cool noises" and my favorite "Unique"
Yeah, the 2.3's can't move.... that car is .004s away from the 8's. (Season-ending pass was 9.004s @ 148 mph)
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Ether947 on November 08, 2006, 10:24:05 AM
Ok... I was not expecting that launch, lol.
What kinda horsepower levels are you looking for anyways?
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Chuck W on November 08, 2006, 10:31:43 AM
What's funny...is that wheel stand pass was still a 10sec run....
Title: four or eight?
Post by: *MAYHEM* on November 08, 2006, 12:37:48 PM
Why not a twin turbo V6?
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 08, 2006, 01:24:52 PM
I'm a big fan of the 2.3l, hence the fact that I have one. or I mean 2. for now aleast. I was thinkin a carbed v8 becouse of ease of instalation. I want to go fast for cheep. as for how fast, does any one say ok I want to be only so fast then I'm done. no I have no end goal. I just want to keep having improvement. I would like to atleast trap in the low 7s in the 1/8th
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 46Tbird on November 08, 2006, 02:13:00 PM
Low 7s won't be cheap any way you look at it. It will take a lot of parts to get a 3600+lb Thunderbird to go there. But fortunately, you can surf DFWstangs to find the stuff you'll need. ;)
Realize that you're looking at an honest 400+ rwhp to get to that kind of ET and work towards that, and being able to put it down too.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 08, 2006, 02:47:57 PM
technicaly I have the blue prints for a 400hp 2.3l, and I plan on pulling a lot of waight out of the bird. I just am not sure if the 4cyl is the way I want to go. I already have a 2.3 but I also already have a big block (455 buick:)) so I just need to make up my mind!
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Dogcharmer on November 08, 2006, 03:48:18 PM
In all seriousness, I looked at building up the 2.3 turbo in my TC before it was totalled and compared the cost with that of a 5.0 build with similar output. The cost of building an honest 300 HP 2.3 was too prohibative vs what it would cost to make the same power in a 5.0. That was the major deciding factor for me going over to the V8 darkside.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 46Tbird on November 08, 2006, 03:54:28 PM
I can't imagine the cost of a 400hp 2.3T. Probably on par with an 800hp 4.6.. and making half the power. :o
Hey, it's your money G.
Dogcharmer, let me know a price on those turbo headers. I might have a use for them... ;)
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 08, 2006, 05:40:37 PM
Quote from: 46Tbird;112368
I can't imagine the cost of a 400hp 2.3T. Probably on par with an 800hp 4.6.. and making half the power. :o
Hey, it's your money G.
Dogcharmer, let me know a price on those turbo headers. I might have a use for them... ;)
some of the guys on stangnet(stinger and 351coupe) have about $1500 in theres. holset, header, fmic, intake, 100shot, and a wide band O2. what would be the caust of a 400hp 351?
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 46Tbird on November 08, 2006, 06:57:55 PM
LOL.
Okay man. Although any nitrous system I'd run on an engine stressed that hard would take up half that amount. ;)
I couldn't keep a 280hp 2.3 together longer than a full week. And it was running a liquid-to-air IC with a T3/T4, head studs, and a 1035 (no o-ring). Maybe your luck would be better?
Trust me, it was fun busting ass with a four cylinder. I even had a guy in a 383'd Monte Carlo tell me that was "the best motor Ford ever built" after I whipped his butt. But I don't like fixing stuff every single weekend anymore... and a 400hp 140ci engine in a 3500ish-pound car is gonna be a nightmare.
my .02
FYI - I've got -$100 in my 302 shortblock so far. Yes, negative one hundred dollars because I've sold a few parts off of it. And I'm betting it will make just under 400 N/A by the time I have $500 in it.. guess we'll see. :)
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 08, 2006, 07:29:44 PM
man! I just don't know? there are so manny different derections I could go:( I'd like to go with something simple to work on more than anything, and I'm realy used to tinkering with the 2.3, I ges its my comfort zone. if I went with a v8 do you think a 351 would be worh the extra effort, or would a 302 do? I'd like to still be alittl different then the flock.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Blown306Cougar on November 08, 2006, 08:52:01 PM
Quote from: Dogcharmer;112322
Quote: Originally Posted by Blown306Cougar View Post I vote twin turbo V8... BTW, I have some ceramic coated twin turbo headers with T3 s that I'd be willing to part with if you do go with option 3
Quote from: 4bangen;112324
Quote from: Dogcharmer;112322
that's cool. wow I came here for some clairity, but all this has done is remind me why I can't make up my mind! I thnk every one is right!!!
lol i love when the tags get screwed up i never said that lol
i would love a twin turbo setup but you would need a 4 bolt main block a 2 bolt main block won't last long..
and sorry dude i was'nt trying to be a richard.. i was just being a wise a$$ if it's a 4CYL you want to build then build it if you do it right it will go fast..
now for doing something diffrent i can see what your talking about..
i've bin there..
there where two reasons why i switched to the victor jr carb intake converted to EFI..
1,to take out some of the ton's of lowend the motor made with the useal EFI manifold.. it was a tire fryer below 40MPH..
and 2,the WTF factor!! lol
IE
"a person walks by the cougars" 6CYL,6CYL,V8,V8, wait a minuite this ones a supercharged V8!..
then it was stock intake,corba,GT40,trickflow,WTF!! what manifold is that! and it's supercharged!
Nick
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Master_xzavior on November 08, 2006, 10:29:26 PM
Summit has 351's that are close to or over 400 hp like they are. with nos and super or turbo charging it you should be able to go well over400 hp on a bad day. I would think anyway. but please please please dont put the buick motor in a tbird originality is one thing but non ford motor in our cars is borderline blasphemy.:beatyoass: :grinno:
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 4bangen on November 09, 2006, 11:03:47 AM
Quote from: Master_xzavior;112453
but please please please dont put the buick motor in a tbird originality is one thing but non ford motor in our cars is borderline blasphemy.:beatyoass: :grinno:
no no no...the 455 is in my 72 riviara. that is a numbers matching all original classic buick. it will stay right where it is
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Master_xzavior on November 09, 2006, 02:24:54 PM
good deal. Id honestly go with a V8 like the others said since your talking about racing with it. personal preference speaking there though. When I think race cars I expect the cars to rumble enough to make a persons nads vibrate severely which automatically screams V8!!!!! Where as most of the beefed up 4Cyl cars Ive heard racing sound more like a swarm of ticked off bumble bees. As well as going by what the specs on crate motors from jegs and summit are it seems the bigger the CI in the more HP and torque they create. Going by that I would think the larger engines have a higher power capability. Sure theres the WTF factor of having a 4cyl in a racing car. But that WTF isnt always a good WTF. Going outragously large which is the total opposite end of the WTF table which is on the HTH end with how the hell did that get that monster to fit in there? Besides they have to see the motor before they start the WTF which means you have to be parked long enough for them to wonder over. A big block with a large supercharger whine seems to draw people almost immediately.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 09, 2006, 05:40:14 PM
Personally I'd go with a 351 (of course that's because I'm... um... going with a 351). The turbo 4 is a neat idea but you're spending a lot of money to build a wild small engine that barely matches a mild big engine just for the sake of being different. The big block also seems like a good idea, but these cars are heavy enough without a big block, and all that extra weight would be over the front wheels. Might be a good car for the 1/4, but on-the-road handling would be the shiznits.
You don't even necessarily need a 351 - Lord knows 302's are cheap and easy to build. I'm just building a 351 because one was given to me.
Title: four or eight?
Post by: 46Tbird on November 10, 2006, 09:20:37 AM
Here's that 414. The ad says "sold" but he PM'd me and told me it is still available, he will take $5K.
Add it up, there is NO chance you will get a 4cyl to go 8-second quarter miles for five grand. ;)