My car wont start. Definitively is an electrical problem. Any Help would be very appreciated. (For some info, see the topic in "Engine tech" called "Car Wont stay running".....
What is it doing? is the motor just turning over? not at all? kinda starts and spudders?
Well, first the car can start and run, but in and undetermined moment it shut down , cruising or idling. Parked it at run at the 3 o 4 tries. Now, the car simply wont start. The starter motor turns strong and the battery are good. There are fuel. The spark plugs are good. But the engine only turns, there arent the typical noises of the engine trying to run.....any ideas ?
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/racingtrykes/almacen/Cougar.jpg)
if it just starts and turns and doesnt sound like its firing youre more then likely having an ignition problem. could be a whole number of reasons on that
Bad TFI ?
could be a few things and guessing is the best anyone here can do,
U need air fuel and sprak to work. Well sure u have air, As for fuel u should be able to smell it. U can check plugs and see if there fuel soked. What u have left is a ignition problem.
Its ether be in the box coil or in the distributor i have seen pick up fail like this b4 in other cars. I know how to Trouble shoot a MSD box and dis not sure on stock ones.
tfi - TFI - TFI
I had same prob this year....
When the TFI (Tick Film Ignition) is bad or intermitent defective, it result in no voltage at the coil output.
This is known problem with ford vehicule....
"A normal problem" as a Ford technician said to me once.... (lmfao.... how a problem can be normal?) :giggle:
Or you can look at THIS (http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/tfi.html) on Coolcats.net
Only a little question. I was reading that the TFI is needed for control the spark output of the ignition system via the EEC, but since my car is carbed, this problem affect me ? i guess yes, because i have the Duraspak module and the distributor is electronic (no condenser). I only want this info to explain to the mechanic...
(duh... my car havent been in the Workshop since my engine was installed, all the fixes since then was did for me but this record will be out now...)
The Dura Spark modules are famous for failing as well. Sometimes a few good whacks will start them working again(temporarly).
If you don't have any spark I'd just get one and try it. If it doesn't fix it, you can always keep it as a spare, cause you're likely to need it sooner or later.
I like that thought but it was prooved wrong to me once when i had fuel, air and lets just say what appeared to be good spark.
It turned out to be the stator / pick up coil assembly down in the dizzy.
id block the choke open and crank while checking for spark and fuel. If you find your ign module,, swap that out as well as the DSII module. My first guess if you had no spark would be the ign module which you might find mounted on the strut tower on either the pass or driver side.
Mmm, i have discovered that i dont have any spark. My sister help me to start the car and i unplug a cable from the distributor and left it near of the spark plug. No luck....i unplug 4 cables (one at once) and no spark. May i need to replace the Duraspark box and the TFI or one of these only ?
You have either a Duraspark ignition module or a Thick Film Ignition module(TFI) but not both.
If you have a TFI it is attached to the side of the distributor.
If you have no TFI and vacuum advance on your distributor, you have a Duraspark II.
If you have no TFI and no vacuum advance you have a Duraspark III.
I have both. The Tfi under the distributor and the Duraspark module at the drivers side near of the front shock mount. I don´t know if both are operative.....the engine was of and 89 T-bird....
I discovered that i don´t energy from there.......before the (i don´t know how to say in english that ugly thing that seems like a transformer and has two little cables and another wire that goes to the distributor at the center of it ) i don´t have any energy. I could touch the distributor and nothing ( when a helper turned the engine on)......i have to change that thing ? ill send to you guys a diagram (is from the right).....
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/racingtrykes/almacen/ignite.jpg)
This is because the DS II is very hard to find here. Of course, any method to test the DS II would be very appreciated....
Do you mean the coil? both my coil and starter solinoid took a dump on me. I would check both of those
Here's what the TFI module looks like on the distributor. :)
You have circled the ignition Coil.
The '89 engine would have used a TFI in the '89 T-Bird.
If the distributor is from the '89 it could have a TFI on it. But is it being used, does it have wires connected to it?
How many wires come out of the Duraspark Module, 5 or 6 ?
What ignition system did the '85 Cougar 3.8 V6 engine with a carburetor use?
Maybe the Canadians can help here. These were not sold in the U.S.
Does the car have an Electronic Engine Control (EEC)?
Yes, it has the TFI. But only has 3 wires connected to some place....
The duraspark module has 6 wires.....all of them connected.....
My car hasnt the EEC .....
Assuming you are correct in what you say, you have a Duraspark system wired to a distributor made for fuel injection. When your car ran did it have little power? very poor fuel mileage, irratic miss fires?
This would be because you ignition has no method of advance. Likley who ever installed the 89 engine did not know what they were up to because they wired a stock 89 dist. into a carburated setup running duraspark ignition.
Most likley the TFI has failed, if that is ok, it would be (in order of probability) the pickup sensor in the dist, the coil, then the duraspark box. This assumes the simple stuff like dist cap, rotor, wires, and plugs are in decent condition.
You could just replace the TFI, but you will still have no advance and thus a py running engine. I would recomend you go to a junk yard and buy a vacuum advance distributor (like the one in your diagram above) from a late 70's / early 80's 3.8L car. Then install it in the car and wire up the duraspark system properly. Follow the diagram you have, and be sure to wire in the BALLAST resister in the run circut (if it is not alreay their).
Exactly, i have a Duraspark system wired to a distributor made for fuel injection....
When my car ran, it ran very good. Probably better than my r.i.p 84 that was CFI. I can past 150 km/h sometimes and 160 km/h one time. I did burnouts anytime....
The gas mileage...mmmm...being gently with my foot it was decent (not stellar) but it wasnt a gas guzzler. I have done some large trips and did good fuel economy....
do you refer to advance the timing ? i only lossen a bolt attached to the dist and advanced or getting back , depending of the altitude, but that was possible...
The simple stuff is very good (and i have replacements for that).
"Most likley the TFI has failed, if that is ok, it would be (in order of probability) the pickup sensor in the dist, the coil, then the duraspark box. This assumes the simple stuff like dist cap, rotor, wires, and plugs are in decent condition."
O.k, ill try in that order. Thank you very much....
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/racingtrykes/almacen/cat2.jpg)
with how much parts cost it mght be time to take it into a mechanic, there is a point when you might just want to have them tell you what is wrong. on a side note what kinda wing is that?
Well, that´s all. Thank you very much guys !
About the wing ? well, i always wanted one for my cougar. It cost me the equivalent of 40 $ dollars new. Its fiberglass. I have to mount it. It has the stoplight of 8 bulbs. When i bought it, i told to the seller that i want a wing for a cougar (i didn´t want one of these 5" tall wings) . He tolds me that the Cuttlas 89 type will be ok for me, and that was right......
About replacing parts, the tfi, coil, can be tested by a parts store
Rotating the distrubutor advances or retardes the BASE timeing. However engines both carbed and FI, advance the timing while you are driving through two different systems. Carbed cars (duraspark II) use a vacuum connection at the dist to advance the timing as vacuum is increased (by rotating the base plate in the dist). These distributors also have a centrifugal mechanical advance. Fuel injected cars use the TFI module, in conjunction with the computer, to electronically advance the timing.
On your car it sounds like non of these advance systems are properlly working. This is why I recomend you revert back to a totally duraspark system for optimal performance and fuel economy. If you are satisfied with your cars performance you may not want to bother messing with it.
Edit, if the pick up is shot you'd better replace the entire distributor. Getting that thing out is very very diffiucly. It is also much more $ than a junkyard distributor.
Does the distributor have a vacuum advance on it??? In the early '80s vans, there were some TFI dist that only had the three wire hookup. These used a conventional weight system inside the dist for timing advance.
But as already mentioned, sounds like you have a EFI TFI dist triggering the original Duraspark module. If thats the case the Duraspark module could be eleminated and just let the TFI trigger the coil...
Im going to try to find the vaccum dist at any car shop and reinstall all the electrical stuff. My car hasn´t the vaccum advance dist......
I was remebering when the mechanic puts the first engine (of my r.i.p 84) into the 85, he called to a another mechanic and he put a newer DSII ( that part says "motronik", not duraspark II ) but with that part the car simply wont start (like today). The only way was to put the old DSII (that i have attached to the car) and ran fine...
When the same mechanic put the second engine (actual engine) I dont saw how he puts the new electrical system.....he lefts many , many glitches in the entire installation, that i´m still finding today.....
I have learned tooooo many lessons. The next time when ill have to put another engine i will do myself........at least if broke, i wont be dissapointed with the work.....
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/racingtrykes/cougar/cougar5.jpg)
Today, i have bough the New DS module. Put it in the place of the old module and turned the car on and not.....the car dont start......only turns but not start.......i appreciate what when i turn OFF the engine, the car tryes to start. I quit the center wire of the dist and use a screwdriver to put near of the center of the dist and gave turns to the engine to check the spark. Exactly when the car is turned Off, a spark jumps between the screwdriver and the distributor and the engine tries to start, but when i turn the engine and maintain in this form, the spark are inexistent.... The mechanic didnt want to come here to fix my car.........duhhhhhh.....
Any ideas ?
I will change the coil.......
Bad ignition switch contacts?
Try this (only takes a minute): Put the plug wires back on, turn the key to "on" (not "start"), then find the starter solenoid under the hood, pull off the small wire with the rubber hood, and use the screwdriver to connect the post the wire was on with the post the big wire from the battery connects to. If it starts, there's something wrong with the ignition switch.
Oh no. My alien car has solenoid like this......has four wires in total.
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/racingtrykes/almacen/solenoide.jpg)
But i think in the same way . I guess that ignition switch is part of the problem.
There are a way to do the the past test in my car with this type of solenoid ? i´m interested.
same way, just cross from the batt. to the post on the left. :)
Do you have a volt meter?
With the ignition switch in "RUN" you should have 6 to 8 volts on the "BATT or + " terminal of the ignition coil.
With the ignition switch in "START" you should have the same voltage that you have across the battery with the starter motor running. Should be a least 10 volts.
In "run" the voltage is limited by a ballast resister.
The spark is generated by grounding then ungrounding the "TACH or -" terminal on the ignition coil.
In the old days this was done with breaker points built into the distributor.
Now the ignition module (TFI) does this as it receives pulses from the stator in the distributor.
alright now exact same question only its a 1986 5.0 with sefi. I dont think that the coil is bad because I replaced it 1 or 2 years ago. it dosent even try. I am sure that it gets gas. I should mention that I found out why my car was running so rich. I was told it was either my map sensor, or a vacume leak. Guess what. The vacume hose to the map sensor was broken.....the things you find out when you get another car to look at.
With a test light:
"Look at" the batt/+ terminal of the coil. It should light with the ignition in run or start.
If no light it is probably the ignition switch.
"Look at" the tach/- terminal of the coil. It should blink when the engine is cranking.
If the light is always on the TFI is not grounding it. The TFI is probably bad. Could possibly be the stator.
If the light is always off the TFI is a constant ground or the coil primary winding is open. Unplug the TFI. If the light comes on the coil is not open.
If you want to guess; go for the TFI.
I have called the mechanic. Oh no.......
HE HAD TWO DAYS WORKING IN THE CAR AND STILL NOT RUN.....
I have bought and put:
The new Duraspark module
New TFI
New Distributor Cap
He had remove the entire dist to check it.....
And maybe tomorrow im going to buy a new coil......
At least if the car gets fixed, all the parts are new and i wont be worried for electrical problems, but for now this is expensive for me. I hope that tomorrow will be the good day. But if the mechanic told me that the distributor is bad, will be the time to junk the entire car......
Did you ever put a new ignition switch on? not the key switch, but the module down on the steering column. :)
Exactly where is located that switch ?
The mechanic in his tests has bypased some things and he starts the car like the MaterBlaster says in his reply (and diagram) with the screwdriver.
Of course, í appreciate all your helps.
Well, if your mechanic is trying to start the car at the solenoid, then that rules out the switch. Make sure you have the key turned on when you cross the solenoid. :)
Just like i tought, the stupid mechanic son of a b!""#$ left my car worse ! he only change the old pieces and i bought newer ones, but he did not any adjustement to the car. He´ll never come back because he don´t know how to fix my car. The worse part is, he has my Coil and the Distributor rotor. Anyway, im gonna change those parts.......
At this point, i have changed the mayority, if not all, of the electrical system in the engine. The only part that i did not change is the Ballast resistor, the Distributor stator and the Coil. I guess that im going to buy those parts too, and if the car wont run, im going to start thinking in worse problems like Chain Timming or Compresion. Will be time to junk this car.......
The mechanic admit that he can´t fix my car. He gave me my old parts and the revisions were without cost .My car still not run. Maybe its my bad luck. I guess im going to break my record of "no start car" with this problem. The last was the fuel pump and the car sat about 2 months.
O.k tomorrow i´m gonna put all the parts and maybe "try" some...
That sucks major, I am in pretty much the same boat, wish I could help
Today, put all the parts. No luck....
I´m thinking in 3 possibilities:
1.- Buy the coil. Cost: 25 USD. If this wont work, ill be in bankrupt.
2.- Buy the Stator. I don´t know how to install that and i have to require a mechanic to put it (another...). Cost: i don´t know how much but more expensive that the coil. If won´t work, bankrupt.
3.- Consider all my problems with the car, changing the entire dist cost here near the equivalent of 250 USD . I have heard that into the Dist there is a "Pick-up" sensor and that is irreplaceable. If this were my real problem, no cost. I don´t going to change a part that cost the half that my car cost when mom bought it.
What will you do in that case ?
I think the Stator and the Pickup coil are the same thing. And it's not too hard to change yourself.
Ah, that´s ok. Excuse me, but i don´t know that the "pick up sensor and the stator" are the same part. Here we called "Estator" or "Conjunto de captacion magnetica". Sorry my english...
No apologies needed. If I remember correctly, it is down inside the distributor underneath the rotor.