well, i finally bought a 91 thunderbird.... it's been wrecked in the front so it's not too much to look at, but it has a 5.0 HO with mass air that i'm going to c00ch out and throw into the cougar!!
so, my first question would be, where can i find some schematics or some help pages to do a eec-III to eec-IV conversion, i'm taking the ENTIRE harness and all electronics from the engine bay to do it, but i think their's some splicing to be done in the dash (namely the fact that i'll be using the aod that came with the ho, so i need to find a way to make my digital dash work with the speedometer.... maybe i'll just need all new guages)
next, i'm sping the car when i'm done so i want to be able to part as much out as i can for others before the junk man gets it..... i know this is mainly a fox site, is there a mn-12 site that i might pimp the goods to.....
anyway, i'll keep posting progress each weekend for those interested in the conversion.... that 4-eyed kitty is going to haul!! (the wife is stoked:) )
going by the user name for this thread, i am deeply disappointed. :bs:
I believe TCCoA is a big MN12 depot. Your speedo should work with the 91 T-Bird's tranny. I believe the '83 with the disco dash used a cable that drove a speed sensor mounted right on the speedo. your cable should attach to the MN12 tranny just like it does in your tranny.
I'd recommend using a Mustang harness, simply because it's laid out to fit your engine bay already. I've heard of nightmares from people trying to adapt an MN12 harness to a Fox. You'll also probably need Mustang shorty headers, and you'll likely need a fuel pump from an '86 Bird or Cat (which may require a tank from the same year). Other than that, sounds like you have a good plan! I can't wait to get under the hood of my 'Bird...
That motor is 205 hp instead of the stangs 225 hp due to the headers and mild cam. So a nice set of fox headers of your choice will be nice. I don’t even think you can use those funky looking headers off the mn12. And a mustang cam or while it’s out aftermarket of your choice. Or if you don’t want to dig out the cam go w/1.7 rockers. The cobras had that set up.
Its actually because of the headers and the intake manifold. Cam is the same for the most part.
i already have a set of 94 mustang factory headers on the cougar that i was going to use..... will they work ok or should i go aftermarket? i'm still trying to keep this thing on the cheap :deal: :2c:
They should work fine. AFAIK the 94-95 headers are almost the same as 87-93 except for a smog tube on them that has to be blocked off. Of course if you've already got them on the Cougar they're probably already blocked off...
Don't forget the intake manifold. You should swap upper (and lower I believe) for Mustang pieces as well. The MN12 upper manifold has a bend at the throttle body that the Mustang does not have.
thanks for the heads up on the mustang intake.... i'll get one on it while the engine's out..... speaking of that, i have the thunderbird stripped now and will be taking the motor out of the cougar probably next weekend.... i have some odds and ends parts from the thunderbird for sale on e-bay.... it has the black interior if anyone is interested
ok, here's some boring pictures, thought i had one of the new engine, but i guess it didn't come out... there's a before of the cougar, an after i took the engine out, and a pic of the donor..... notice the front end damage on the thunderchicken
not that anyone's interested, i changed the thread name to more addequately describe the car :) anyway, forgot the camera today but i'll get some pic's up tomorrow... i've got the engine in, just have to splice all those wires :beatyoass: ..... anyway, here's a pic of the wheels after i just repainted them in the garage... enjoy
:idhitit::idhitit::idhitit:
well, here's the pics with the new motor in it.... no wires yet, just bolted up with the intake on.... we cut the thunderbird intake up to the valve cover vent and wiggled the mass air back on it, then we connected a piece of cold-air pipe from the mass ait to the stock 83 intake that goes through the fender.... i've ordered a k&n cone filter that will fit on the end of the intake hose so it will be conceiled inside the fender splash guard..... didn't intend for it to happen, but since the battery on the cougar is where the thunderbird air box goes, we had to improvise.... turned out looking really good though :)
nice. keep the pics coming...
so, i guess a few of you sre still looking at this thread, so i'll give you a much needed update on a now too long project that will hopefully (crossed fingers) be done in 2 weeks :bs: :)
anyway, so, i found out that the bracket to the tv cable on the new engine was really screwing with my shift linkage because of the way it mounts to the tranny, so i decided to put in a floor shifter.... well, the first problem was finding one that worked... and man did i!
i went to the junkyard to pick up a fuel pump (long story but the 83 has 2 pumps and the ho needs a pump with bigger lines) so i went to pull it and low and behold, they had a wrecked 88 thunderbird with a 5.0 and dual exhaust.... with a floor shifter!!!!
only problem is that the tranny was gone and they cut the shift cable, but the rest of it was there, so after $75, i had a fuel pump w/ fuel tank (to make my duals easier) and the entire floor shifter assembly (less the cable)..... so anyway, i got it in the floor today and got 80% of the wiring done.... should get the fuel tank back from the shop next week (acid bath and to fill a hole), so hopefully, i'll have it all hooked up next weekend and be able to get it running by the first weekend in november..... it's coming along, but i'm getting antsy!!!
so anyway, here's a few pics... enjoy :)
here's a few pics of the engine compartment.... since the t-bird had a harness going all the way around the engine back into the firewall on the driver side and the cougar only had the one on the passenger side, it's a little crouded over there since that's where most of the wires ended up :)
I never realized the MN-12 5.0's had the a/c mounted under the power steering pump. It looks weird.....I'm used to it being the other way around. Keep us updated! Lookin good so far!
I had never noticed that they had the offset alternator, either...
ok, so it's been a while, but i got the ho running..... now it has no exhaust, just the h-pipes installed, but it still is SOOOOO much better than the old P.O.S. 5.0 i had in there :)
here's 2 links, the first one is longer and the other just the last 30 sec or so
i was having problems with the longer one earlier, so i hope it works now
enjoy..... maybe ;)
(http://thumbs.vidiac.com/49997e23-5dcc-45fa-8bab-987f008b8aea.jpg) (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/49997e23-5dcc-45fa-8bab-987f008b8aea.htm)Click here to see the long one (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/49997e23-5dcc-45fa-8bab-987f008b8aea.htm)
(http://thumbs.vidiac.com/71400910-6ebe-429c-8453-987f00858e84.jpg) (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/71400910-6ebe-429c-8453-987f00858e84.htm)Click here to see shorter video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/71400910-6ebe-429c-8453-987f00858e84.htm)
NICE :D keep it up
Very nice job! That couldn't have been easy getting all that mn12 stuff to adapt to the fox chassis.
That is great! I plan on converting my 83 as well. Did you have stupid issues like ultra high idle on startup? The car seems stupid half the time.
You used the Mn-12 harness?
Sweet:cool: . Wana come over and do mine in the spring?:grinno:
Be sure to report back with performance comparisons :D . My dad's Chevelle SHOULD be finished this weekend (YAAAY) so soon we'll get my HO conversion done. I'm really excited.
Sweet! Don't you wish you could drive it without exhaust and not get hassled?
ok, i've got a sec...... most of my problems getting the mn-12 stuff in there was that the smog stuff interfered with my frame, so it was going anyway,(i think the motor sits just a tad lower).... the h-pipes actually seem to fit better (i'm using 95 mustang factory headers)...... and YES, i did use the mn-12 harness (that's why if you watched the long version he was making a joke about the check engine light not being on... it's not hooked up yet).... anyway, i am using the mn-12 eec harness and the fox body harness..... fun, fun, fun.... i think we spliced about 20 or 25 wires or so, including the 8 on the cruise (different connector), and i had to make an adaptor for the driver side o2 sensor because the wire was 8 inches too short..... so anyway, my lights and all my dash stuff works, except the check engine light, the oil light, and the temp light..... gotta hunt those wires later...... i also have to get an a/c hose made for the line from the accumulator to the compressor (accumulator is 83, compressor 91).... other than that, the wires were usually the same color so it was a lot of plug and play..... we also needed to make our own mini fuse box for the eec power relay...... i have the tranny stuff done except i need to find a floor shift cable (mine is broken) and i need to clean up the wires.... . 1 other thing, i'm using the 83 fan shroud b/c the 91's was missing.... the fan blade sits about 3 inches closer to the engine than in the 83 (i'm guessing serp vs v-belt)..... anyway, i hope to button her up before christmas and get some rolling vids :)
as for the question of going from 83 blah to 91 ho, here's what i bought..........
91 thunderbird donor (motor, accessories, wiring harness [eec from pass side mostly])
88 thunderbird floor shift, console cover (which i had to dremel to fit), shift cable, transmission mount, fuel tank, fuel pump, complete fuel lines from tank to fuel rail, and fuel sending unit (the thing that tells you how much gas you have
95 mustang gt factory header and h-pipe
-i had to drop the trans pan and flip the shift lever down (not easy b/c it's not straight... it bends) so that the cable will work and the cable for the tv(kickdown) cable would mount properly (it was mechanical before)-
-also, i got the fuel tank because i needed a bigger fuel pump for the ho, and the pump in the 91 was all wrong for the 83 tank... because i needed more fuel, i needed bigger fuel lines (the 83 is cfi, so the lines were tiny) and i needed the tank itself because the 83 tank (which the 88 pump could have fit in) is set up for an intergrated fuel pump/sending unit... the 88 have seperate holes-
sooooooo, needless to say, this took WAY too long to finish, but i'm glad it's almost done.... btw, the other guy in the video (i'm in the blue near the engine, i think he's in the red) is one of my instructors from school and we did this over the last 8 weekends or so in his garage at his house... he's worked for fords for 25 odd years (mostly stangs), so i don't think i could have done a lot of this without his help with all things fomoco :)
any more questions;)
ok, i've got a sec...... most of my problems getting the mn-12 stuff in there was that the smog stuff interfered with my frame, so it was going anyway,(i think the motor sits just a tad lower).... the h-pipes actually seem to fit better (i'm using 95 mustang factory headers)...... and YES, i did use the mn-12 harness (that's why if you watched the long version he was making a joke about the check engine light not being on... it's not hooked up yet).... anyway, i am using the mn-12 eec harness and the fox body harness..... fun, fun, fun.... i think we spliced about 20 or 25 wires or so, including the 8 on the cruise (different connector), and i had to make an adaptor for the driver side o2 sensor because the wire was 8 inches too short..... so anyway, my lights and all my dash stuff works, except the check engine light, the oil light, and the temp light..... gotta hunt those wires later...... i also have to get an a/c hose made for the line from the accumulator to the compressor (accumulator is 83, compressor 91).... other than that, the wires were usually the same color so it was a lot of plug and play..... we also needed to make our own mini fuse box for the eec power relay...... i have the tranny stuff done except i need to find a floor shift cable (mine is broken) and i need to clean up the wires.... . 1 other thing, i'm using the 83 fan shroud b/c the 91's was missing.... the fan blade sits about 3 inches closer to the engine than in the 83 (i'm guessing serp vs v-belt)..... anyway, i hope to button her up before christmas and get some rolling vids :)
as for the question of going from 83 blah to 91 ho, here's what i bought..........
91 thunderbird donor (motor, accessories, wiring harness [eec from pass side mostly])
88 thunderbird floor shift, console cover (which i had to dremel to fit), shift cable, transmission mount, fuel tank, fuel pump, complete fuel lines from tank to fuel rail, and fuel sending unit (the thing that tells you how much gas you have
95 mustang gt factory header and h-pipe
-i had to drop the trans pan and flip the shift lever down (not easy b/c it's not straight... it bends) so that the cable will work and the cable for the tv(kickdown) cable would mount properly (it was mechanical before)-
-also, i got the fuel tank because i needed a bigger fuel pump for the ho, and the pump in the 91 was all wrong for the 83 tank... because i needed more fuel, i needed bigger fuel lines (the 83 is cfi, so the lines were tiny) and i needed the tank itself because the 83 tank (which the 88 pump could have fit in) is set up for an intergrated fuel pump/sending unit... the 88 have seperate holes-
sooooooo, needless to say, this took WAY too long to finish, but i'm glad it's almost done.... btw, the other guy in the video (i'm in the blue near the engine, i think he's in the red) is one of my instructors from school and we did this over the last 8 weekends or so in his garage at his house... he's worked for fords for 25 odd years (mostly stangs), so i don't think i could have done a lot of this without his help with all things fomoco :)
and yes, i wish i could rattle the windows with it just the way it is :evilgrin:
any more questions;)
ok, i've got a sec...... most of my problems getting the mn-12 stuff in there was that the smog stuff interfered with my frame, so it was going anyway,(i think the motor sits just a tad lower).... the h-pipes actually seem to fit better (i'm using 95 mustang factory headers)...... and YES, i did use the mn-12 harness (that's why if you watched the long version he was making a joke about the check engine light not being on... it's not hooked up yet).... anyway, i am using the mn-12 eec harness and the fox body harness..... fun, fun, fun.... i think we spliced about 20 or 25 wires or so, including the 8 on the cruise (different connector), and i had to make an adaptor for the driver side o2 sensor because the wire was 8 inches too short..... so anyway, my lights and all my dash stuff works, except the check engine light, the oil light, and the temp light..... gotta hunt those wires later...... i also have to get an a/c hose made for the line from the accumulator to the compressor (accumulator is 83, compressor 91).... other than that, the wires were usually the same color so it was a lot of plug and play..... we also needed to make our own mini fuse box for the eec power relay...... i have the tranny stuff done except i need to find a floor shift cable (mine is broken) and i need to clean up the wires.... . 1 other thing, i'm using the 83 fan shroud b/c the 91's was missing.... the fan blade sits about 3 inches closer to the engine than in the 83 (i'm guessing serp vs v-belt)..... anyway, i hope to button her up before christmas and get some rolling vids :)
as for the question of going from 83 blah to 91 ho, here's what i bought..........
91 thunderbird donor (motor, accessories, wiring harness [eec from pass side mostly])
88 thunderbird floor shift, console cover (which i had to dremel to fit), shift cable, transmission mount, fuel tank, fuel pump, complete fuel lines from tank to fuel rail, and fuel sending unit (the thing that tells you how much gas you have
95 mustang gt factory header and h-pipe
-i had to drop the trans pan and flip the shift lever down (not easy b/c it's not straight... it bends) so that the cable will work and the cable for the tv(kickdown) cable would mount properly (it was mechanical before)-
-also, i got the fuel tank because i needed a bigger fuel pump for the ho, and the pump in the 91 was all wrong for the 83 tank... because i needed more fuel, i needed bigger fuel lines (the 83 is cfi, so the lines were tiny) and i needed the tank itself because the 83 tank (which the 88 pump could have fit in) is set up for an intergrated fuel pump/sending unit... the 88 have seperate holes-
sooooooo, needless to say, this took WAY too long to finish, but i'm glad it's almost done.... btw, the other guy in the video (i'm in the blue near the engine, i think he's in the red) is one of my instructors from school and we did this over the last 8 weekends or so in his garage at his house... he's worked for fords for 25 odd years (mostly stangs), so i don't think i could have done a lot of this without his help with all things fomoco :)
and yes, i wish i could rattle the windows with it just the way it is :evilgrin:
any more questions;)
ok, i've got a sec...... most of my problems getting the mn-12 stuff in there was that the smog stuff interfered with my frame, so it was going anyway,(i think the motor sits just a tad lower).... the h-pipes actually seem to fit better (i'm using 95 mustang factory headers)...... and YES, i did use the mn-12 harness (that's why if you watched the long version he was making a joke about the check engine light not being on... it's not hooked up yet).... anyway, i am using the mn-12 eec harness and the fox body harness..... fun, fun, fun.... i think we spliced about 20 or 25 wires or so, including the 8 on the cruise (different connector), and i had to make an adaptor for the driver side o2 sensor because the wire was 8 inches too short..... so anyway, my lights and all my dash stuff works, except the check engine light, the oil light, and the temp light..... gotta hunt those wires later...... i also have to get an a/c hose made for the line from the accumulator to the compressor (accumulator is 83, compressor 91).... other than that, the wires were usually the same color so it was a lot of plug and play..... we also needed to make our own mini fuse box for the eec power relay...... i have the tranny stuff done except i need to find a floor shift cable (mine is broken) and i need to clean up the wires.... . 1 other thing, i'm using the 83 fan shroud b/c the 91's was missing.... the fan blade sits about 3 inches closer to the engine than in the 83 (i'm guessing serp vs v-belt)..... anyway, i hope to button her up before christmas and get some rolling vids :)
as for the question of going from 83 blah to 91 ho, here's what i bought..........
91 thunderbird donor (motor, accessories, wiring harness [eec from pass side mostly])
88 thunderbird floor shift, console cover (which i had to dremel to fit), shift cable, transmission mount, fuel tank, fuel pump, complete fuel lines from tank to fuel rail, and fuel sending unit (the thing that tells you how much gas you have)
95 mustang gt factory header and h-pipe
-i had to drop the trans pan and flip the shift lever down (not easy b/c it's not straight... it bends) so that the cable will work and the cable for the tv(kickdown) cable would mount properly (it was mechanical before).. because the lever is bent, i had to notch the trans pan and mounting surface so it would shift all the way through from p to 1 without binding the tv cable... fun, fun-
-also, i got the fuel tank because i needed a bigger fuel pump for the ho, and the pump in the 91 was all wrong for the 83 tank... because i needed more fuel, i needed bigger fuel lines (the 83 is cfi, so the lines were tiny) and i needed the tank itself because the 83 tank (which the 88 pump could have fit in) is set up for an intergrated fuel pump/sending unit... the 88 have seperate holes-
sooooooo, needless to say, this took WAY too long to finish, but i'm glad it's almost done.... btw, the other guy in the video (i'm in the blue near the engine, i think he's in the red) is one of my instructors from school and we did this over the last 8 weekends or so in his garage at his house... he's worked for fords for 25 odd years (mostly stangs), so i don't think i could have done a lot of this without his help with all things fomoco :)
and yes, i wish i could rattle the windows with it just the way it is :evilgrin:
any more questions;)
more pics if anyone still cares..... since my interior is now from 3 different cars (my 83, the 88 shifter and column cover, and a knee panel claude got for me that was the wrong color... i decided to paint all those black because the grey paint i had didn't match well and i didn't want 3 different shades of grey.... i think it looks pretty good, so i might paint a few more panels to blend but i'm not sure..... here's a series of pics showing the interior and engine bay plus a video of it running.... i finally have it back at the house thanks to claude sending me a shift cable, so hopefully it will be done soon... the only thing i really have to debug is the fuel guage not working..... well, enjoy
....
I Know You're Jealous :)
here's the bad video -
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1638296921
Sounds sweet. What cam is that?
i didn't modify the engine, i just pulled it from a wreck and shoved it in, so i don't know what he did to it before i got it.... but it's fast :).... i'm going to try to have some driving pics someday soon......
I like the end of the video! "It's gheto, but it's mine!" Classic line.
And nice job all the way around!
sounds nice.. mine needs some more go-fast goodies
prolly a compucam and some E7's but all in all sounds real nice.
nice.
ok, another boring interior pic...... i decided that there were still to many different grays in the car, so i painter the armrest and dash.... does it look better??? i've decided to drop the paint can for now and just get used to it... i decided to add an origional pic to compare (not that it can go back to that after the driver knee panel broke)
And once again this awsome car is why I purchased my 83. Looking good man, looking real good.
What did you do about the fuel pump and filter? And fuel lines?
funny you ask.... it's the only problem i'm having.... my fuel guage doesn't work because i robbed a sending unit from an buttstuffog car, not a digital car.... the resistances are reversed when full and empty, so it won't work..... i have to go back to the yard to get one from a digital car.........
here's what i did though..... i have an 83, i got the engine from a 91..... so the 91 fuel tank definitely won't work and the 83 has dual pumps with lower pressure and tiny hoses so it won't work....... so i split the difference and got the fuel system from an 88 thunderbird from stem to stern including tank..... the problem with the 83 tank is that the pump is shaped weird and has no higher output alternatives plus the lines are very small.... the 88 has the right size tank (just a little fatter so the mount bolts didn't go on all the way down) and the lines fit perfectly until you get to the engine.... plus they are mostly metal lines so they make me feel safer.... now i couldn't get the fuel rails off the 88, so i connected the lines to the 91 engine (just a little different configuration).... but it solved my fuel problem...... i just drove the cat to work tonight and averaged 19.4 mpg according to the tripminder (it's about 22 miles, half interstate, half city)..... so i'm pretty happy with it :)
Nice work.Really nice work.I felt that good when I dropped the H.O into my Bird,although I didn't have to go through the fuel line mess and wiring,mine was just plug and play.Two thumbs up !!!
I was trying to avoid the whole fuel line switcharoo
Diggin' the Hula girl!
well, i solved the sending unit problem.... if anyone is interested, all the fox body fuel pumps/sending units seem to have the same size resistor plate.... i was looking at my old fuel pump (which had a built in sending unit) and thought to snip and splice the wire and swap floats and resistor boards..... now it works like a charm :)
--- in the pic --- the 83 pump is the lower one and the 88 sending unit is the upper
Now,don't you feel better?
ok, so i've been plagues by electrical small(go figure), fuel, and alignment problems, so i haven't been on the road with the cat for awhile (especially with the fuel leak).... anyway, i finally got that fixed (the lines at the pump were leaking so i had to re o-ring them... not fun) and the electrical stuff were more bad soldering than bad wiring.... the alignment problems came about last year when i changed the springs... long story short, one of the springs were broken so the strut was hollowed at the lower mount to compensate, when i put new springs on, i didn't notice, so the alignment has been off ever since (so i finally have that one licked too).... also, the tires were feathered and cupped and rode terribly at high speeds, so i replaces them... however 245/60/14's cost an arm and a leg, so for half the cost i went back to the stock 205/70/14 size.... the car sits about a half inch higher and since the wife will be using it as a daily driver, i think they will work better for her in the long run..... so, just wanted to show her off again, i'm 99% done.... i added a temp guage where the premium sound button used to be, painted the inside of the prndl guage in the dash (since it's a floor shift now) and returned the hula girl back to her formar glory..... here's a few pics, and i hope to have a few burnouts and passes posted before the end of the month... enjoy :)
i love those wheels on it
Nice! That's the first '83 that I've seen with a factory style floor shifter.
Great work.The car looks great.Don't ever get rid of it.Didn't you dye some of the interior?If so,tell me how you went about it and how durable it seems to be.PM me if you don't mind.
that's because i put it there :) it's from an 88
Yeah, that's what I figured. I was about 99% sure the floor shifter made its debut in '84 with the auto trans TurboCoupes and XR7's. Plus I can tell it's an AOD shifter. Fits in quite nicely! I have one of 'em from Vinnie waiting to go into my car. Since I drove Eric's old Sport with one in it, I knew I had to have one.
Nice work, man.
thats perrty sounding and lookin ive just picked up a 91 ho for my 87im hopin its like vinnies with the plug and play option. any major items i need to address before starting my swap?
unlike mine, you have a fuel injected engine already.... i wish mine could have been that easy, i had to swap cpu's and graft harnesses.... yours won't exactly be "plug-n-play", but it'll be close
wat all will i have to swap out? ie harnesses or sensors
so i'm 99 % done... i have the a/c hooked up but it's not operating properly and there is a power steering leak.... other than that all done ;).... i added a cupholder in the ashtray..... i took an insert from a 90's suv and cut the top, then hollowed out the ashtray holder so a 20oz bottle will fit... and the lid still closes :)..... my wife also has decided that the cougar is definitely hers and she bought a sticker to commerate that announcement.... i may never driver her again:ies: :pbb:
enjoy the pics ;)
I am sorry to here that last part, Good job. Now you just need to find your own kitty cat.