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Messages - roadwarrior

5
T-Bird/Cougar Parts & Cars FOR SALE / 1986 Thunderbird Elan 5.0 in Southern California
1986 Thunderbird Elan 5.0



102K+ 4-5K due to cluster repair under warranty

Car has all available options except EQ for radio, sunroof and alloy wheels. Car has always been in Irvine, California or Corona, California, never has left Southern California or the state. Was driven by my parents from new until approx 2007, then into non-op and storage in Corona until August 2011 when it was reregistered and driven by myself and my son until April 2012.



Working power windows, locks, seats, and mirrors. Window motors have had new gears installed, has had passenger side door lock motor replaced, front seats have been recently reupholstered, rear seat is still nice, needs front armrest recovered, needs headliner material (fragile but not falling) and rear deck material (sun weathered and falling apart) replaced. Stereo works but needs tuner light replacement and speakers. Power antenna is up but is broken, won’t retract, needs new mast. AC was working until recently but needs to be recharged. Last week while cleaning inside of back glass one of the rear defog grid connectors popped off, and I have not been able to find the conductive glue to reattach it. Ignition switch and headlight switch also recently replaced.



All interior and exterior lights intact and working, all trim intact, window run channel rubbers and fuzzies are brittle or shrunken but are intact. Hood, doors and trunk open and close easily. Car was lightly sideswiped on passenger side in a parking lot last year, and in the last 3 years rust has developed in the narrow panel between back window and trunk lid. No other major damage or rust. Paint is original and faded with typical clearcoat failure.



Engine and engine bay is complete and original, motor is quiet and strong and passes California smog, however shows low oil pressure on gauges. With a remote gauge showed as low but sufficient. Motor does not rattle or clatter when pressure shows as low. May be dependent on engine RPM. New main cat and ler last year, precats approx 2k miles ago. Car also received plugs, cap, rotor, O2 sensor, and oil, fuel, air filters August 2011. Fuel sending unit has issues, does read more accurately and reliably now after being replaced with a Mustang sender but not perfect.



Suspension is original, has had struts/shocks replaced at approx 60K, does need alignment and possibly inner tie rod ends. I have 3 of 4 hubcaps, one was improperly reinstalled and lost.



I am currently driving car to work. Car is sold as is, where is in Corona (Riverside County) California. Asking $2000 or best offer, and am willing to deal to sell to an enthusiast.

Thank you for taking a look,
Tom

more pics here: http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/chevygod/1986%20Ford%20T-Bird/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ16









6
Electrical Tech / 86 5.0 digital dash fuel sender
Couple of updates:

Sender seems to be giving a useable signal, gets down to 14gals and need 5-6 to fill, so that looks right. However, I seem to be the only one that can get it to read correctly.

After hearing about the gage (among other things that happened to him but I couldn't replicate) over and over, I got my son a new used car from a local dealer, has a warranty, so now he can take it there for repairs. As soon as I determine a fair asking price for the Tbird, I will post it for sale on this forum.

Thank you all for your input,
Tom
7
General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion / new to forum with 86 Elan
Hello all,

OK, I got tired of hearing about the fuel gage issues from everyone in my family, even after replacing sender and getting more accurate readings. Got my son a used car from a local dealer, so any problems he has to take it to them under warranty for repairs.

Car is going to be listed on this forum for sale as soon as I can determine a fair asking price for it. Thank you everyone for your input and help.

Best regards,
Tom
8
Electrical Tech / 86 5.0 digital dash fuel sender
Fueled it up tonight for the first time this week, read 16 gal down from 20 gal, took a little over 4 gallons to fill it. Now reads 19 gal, so maybe we have found a solution of sorts.

More to follow...
9
Electrical Tech / 86 5.0 digital dash fuel sender
Quote from: softtouch;386431
The gage requires several minutes to change the reading. This is to reduce the effects of fuel slosh.


 
Ah-hah!! This might be one more piece of the puzzle, would explain why there was no change when I was actuating the sender (too) quickly under the car. Now, I will try to track how the gauge on the dash is reading as my son drives it to and from school this week, we may see how it works, if it works at all. After one day, not too many miles, still "Full". Should see something in the next day or so. Will update what we find.

softtouch,
Thnak you for the offer of the diags, depending on how this little experiment works I may not need them. If this sender gives a close to realistic reading, we're good (and we may have found an acceptable sender for others to use). If not and I end up replacing the dash gauge with an aftermarket unit I will probably need the diags to chase down wires, and then I will get in contact with you.

Thank you for the excellent input,

Tom
10
Electrical Tech / 86 5.0 digital dash fuel sender
Another update, drove the car around for about an hour on Sunday, gauge read 15 gals when I started, shut off and turned on the ignition several times, it never dropped but did go up to 16 gals then back to 15. Drove the car HARD the whole time, so I imagine it was getting less than 15 MPG indicated, drove it for about 20 miles, so I would think I should have seen the gauge drop some as it should have used more than part of a gallon.

Went and filled the tank, watching as I did with the ignition on and saw no change for about 5 gals (stayed at a reading of 15), so switched off and on the igniton, and reading showed 20. Finished filling at about 6 gals, and gauge reads "F" (full) after off and on..

Sooo, gonna have my son drive it a few days and check the reading on the gauge and then fill it in a few days, and we will see what it shows.

Any thoughts on why the gage doesn't show any changes when the ignition is on, but resets to new float position when the ignition is switched off and then on? Could it be related to the change in the headlamp switch and its control of power to the cluster that softtoush was describing above?

Best regards,
Tom
11
Electrical Tech / 86 5.0 digital dash fuel sender
softtouch,

Thank you for that tid bit, don't know how that would affect the gauge reading, should I try to have a different hot power coming into the cluster and how would I go about doing this? The gauge has been reading incorrectly for a while, but the headlamp switch was just replaced. Could the new switch be sending power differently than the car wants to see it? Switch I used is spec'd for an 86-87 MVII.

This one: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/S930.oap?year=1987&make=Lincoln&model=Mark%2BVII&vi=1188402&ck=Search_s930_1188402_3587&keyword=s930

The correct one for the 86 'Bird was not available at all, but is this one:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ACD0/F1538/02006.oap?year=1986&make=Ford&model=Thunderbird&vi=1140208&pt=02006&ppt=C0039

Has that huge heatsink on the side.

Could this minor difference in the switches cause the non-update of the level as the sender position is changed?

Thank you,
Tom
12
Electrical Tech / 86 5.0 digital dash fuel sender
OK, put the (I think) Mustang sender and buttoned everything up. The gauge still seems to read whatever level the car was at when started and shows no change until stop and restart. The original sender has some damage to the resistance portion of the resistor card, so maybe I can find another or get this one fixed. Any thoughts?

Is there a controller for the gauge in the cluster? Because if I can determine that the gauge is reading fuel level linearly, and cannot get it to somehow match the dash, its getting and aftermarket gauge in a pod.

Thank you for any input, Happy Easter to all,
Tombe locked
13
Electrical Tech / 86 5.0 digital dash fuel sender
OK, have had issues with the fuel gauge reading on the 86 'Bird, reads all kinds of random things including the dreaded "CO". And I have rad lots of stuff here and on other forums on what to look for or do.

So I went 'Yarding and found a decent sender for test purposes, reads 16 ohms empty/down and 160 ohms full/up, which I think is correct for 86 digital dash cars. Nice movement that cleanly matches the readings, no dead spots. Tank was under a Stang but don't know for sure, but was near an 88 Bird with digital, sooo...

Dropped the 86's tank to get to the wiring and plugged the wiring into the sender. No change on the dash when I move the sender arm, however turning the ignition off and back on will show a change to wherever the sender is positioned last, just won't show change while moving sender with the ignition left on (does not show "trend"). Tried it with an added ground, tried it with the fuel tank balanced and open and the motor running (!), and no change in gauge reading while moving the sender, unless you switch off and back on.

Soooo... I pulled the sender in the tank, and measured it. Reads 13 ohms empty/down and 180 ohms full/up. Has a few dead spots including one at full-full, but should run a gauge for most of the gauges readings. Tried it out of the tank same as the new one. And it does what it always has done, shows baud or continuous readings (no trend).

By the way, once I cgot the sender out of the car, it is a different unit than the one from the yard, oh well...

So here is my question. Is there something in the digital cluster or elsewhere in the car that converts the resistance signal from the sender to a usable signal for the gauge and those go out or don't reset unless restarting the car or something like that?

I have experience on GM senders and you can hook them up to the gauges and run the gauge up and down by manipulating the sender float arm with the key in the run position, motor off. Is the Fox Bird different? Or do I buy an aftermarket fuel gauge and put that in?

Any help is GREATLY appreciated, as I really need to have this solved, one way or another, and the car is currently torn down on my driveway...

Thank you's in advance,
Tom
14
General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion / new to forum with 86 Elan
I thot it was a decimal error in their system, as I found a pair for a Mustang GT for $65. Got a working one at the yard for under $5. Looks like it isn't just me having issues. Whole dang car isn't worth a $300 door lock solonoid...

Also got a fuel sender at the yard that, according to post #32 in this thread, http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?2283-Fuel-tank-level-sending-unit , is correct with 16 ohms empty and 160 ohms full. Hope I'm not missing something here. Project for this weekend, as the fuel gage really frustrates my son, and as I hear about it from my wife, frustrates ME!!!

Tom
15
General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion / new to forum with 86 Elan
Ok, finally had a moment to take pics, download to computer, lose and then find them again, upload to Photopucket, and link here:







Since I last posted, I have gotten the stoplight and headlight switches replaced, replaced a door lock solonoid with a junk yard Mustang unit, and had a new ler, master cylinder, and idle air valve installed. Still working on a fuel sending unit. Found one in the yard last night that has a correctly reading pot, 16 to 160-ish, but need to check if it reads the correct high-low. Soon to drop the tank to acess the harness and plug this one in to try it out. If no-go, we'll go from there.

What amazes me is how parts for this car fit other cars (headlamp and brake switch) but cannot be found by searching for parts for a T-bird. Had to order for a Mark VII. And Oreillys wanted $329.50 for a door lock solonoid. I think it was a decimal error, but again, it was only listed for a Mark VII, and they would not check to see if that was infact a correct price. I could get 2 online for $65. Not like working on my Chevelles...

Best regards,
Tom